127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts

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127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts

Stuart McGraw
What is the meaning of the line:

  127.0.1.1  mymachine.xxx  mymachine

in my /etc/hosts file?  It was put in there by a Xubuntu-17.10
install (or to be more accurate, an Ubuntu server-17,10 + Xubuntu
package install.)  I am installing some backup software (bacula)
which for reasons I haven't delved into, dislikes (as in breaks)
when it resolves "mymachine"s address and ends up with 127.0.0.1
which is what happens when the above line is present in /etc/hosts.  

Will I break something else if I remove or replace the line
with the machine's "real" ip address which keeps bacula happy,
eg:

  10.10.200.85  mymachine.xxx  mymachine

?  Thanks...


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Re: 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts

Wynona Stacy Lockwood
Replace the line with the correct IP, and you should be fine. As long
as "localhost" resolves to 127.0.0.1 you should be fine.

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On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 4:47 PM, Stuart McGraw <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What is the meaning of the line:
>
>   127.0.1.1  mymachine.xxx  mymachine
>
> in my /etc/hosts file?  It was put in there by a Xubuntu-17.10
> install (or to be more accurate, an Ubuntu server-17,10 + Xubuntu
> package install.)  I am installing some backup software (bacula)
> which for reasons I haven't delved into, dislikes (as in breaks)
> when it resolves "mymachine"s address and ends up with 127.0.0.1
> which is what happens when the above line is present in /etc/hosts.
>
> Will I break something else if I remove or replace the line
> with the machine's "real" ip address which keeps bacula happy,
> eg:
>
>   10.10.200.85  mymachine.xxx  mymachine
>
> ?  Thanks...
>
>
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Re: 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts

Karl Auer
In reply to this post by Stuart McGraw
On Mon, 2017-11-27 at 15:47 -0700, Stuart McGraw wrote:
> What is the meaning of the line:
>
>   127.0.1.1  mymachine.xxx  mymachine

It tells local resolvers that the names "mymachine" and "mymachine.xxx"
have the IP address 127.0.1.1, so if you e.g. "ping mymachine" you will
be pinging 127.0.1.1. There is nothing magical about it.

> package install.)  I am installing some backup software (bacula) 
> which for reasons I haven't delved into, dislikes (as in breaks) 
> when it resolves "mymachine"s address and ends up with 127.0.0.1 
> which is what happens when the above line is present in /etc/hosts.  

bacula getting 127.0.0.1 for "mymachine" has nothing to do with the
above line in your /etc/hosts file. 127.0.0.1 is not the same as
127.0.1.1. If that is not a typo on your part, then something else is
disturbing bacula.

> Will I break something else if I remove or replace the line 
> with the machine's "real" ip address which keeps bacula happy, 
> eg:
>
>   10.10.200.85  mymachine.xxx  mymachine

The machine's "real IP address *is* 127.0.1.1 :-)

The address 10.10.200.85 is the address of one interface on the
machine.

What is bacula trying to resolve? If it is trying to resolve
"mymachine" or "mymachine.xxx" then it will be getting 127.0.1.1. You
can fix that by configuring bacula to use a different name e.g.
"boris", then appending that name and the appropriate address to
/etc/hosts:

   10.10.200.85 boris

That is IMHO a nicer option that changing the mymachine line.

Regards, K.

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Re: 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts

Oliver Grawert
In reply to this post by Stuart McGraw
hi,
Am Montag, den 27.11.2017, 15:47 -0700 schrieb Stuart McGraw:

> What is the meaning of the line:
>
>   127.0.1.1  mymachine.xxx  mymachine
>
> in my /etc/hosts file?  It was put in there by a Xubuntu-17.10
> install (or to be more accurate, an Ubuntu server-17,10 + Xubuntu
> package install.)  I am installing some backup software (bacula) 
> which for reasons I haven't delved into, dislikes (as in breaks) 
> when it resolves "mymachine"s address and ends up with 127.0.0.1 
> which is what happens when the above line is present in /etc/hosts.  
>
> Will I break something else if I remove or replace the line 
> with the machine's "real" ip address which keeps bacula happy, 
> eg:
>
>   10.10.200.85  mymachine.xxx  mymachine
>
> ?  Thanks...
>
see https://askubuntu.com/questions/754213/what-is-difference-between-l
ocalhost-address-127-0-0-1-and-127-0-1-1

which has the right pointer to a quote from the debian reference manual
on this topic ... it is a placeholder IP to make sure some low level
network features still work even if you are physically offline.

ciao
        oli
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Re: 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts

Stuart McGraw
In reply to this post by Wynona Stacy Lockwood
On 11/27/2017 03:53 PM, Wynona Stacy Lockwood wrote:

> Replace the line with the correct IP, and you should be fine. As long
> as "localhost" resolves to 127.0.0.1 you should be fine.
>
> --
> Wynona Stacy Lockwood
> [hidden email]
> (847) 579-9753
>
> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 4:47 PM, Stuart McGraw <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> What is the meaning of the line:
>>
>>   127.0.1.1  mymachine.xxx  mymachine
>>
>> in my /etc/hosts file?  It was put in there by a Xubuntu-17.10
>> install (or to be more accurate, an Ubuntu server-17,10 + Xubuntu
>> package install.)  I am installing some backup software (bacula)
>> which for reasons I haven't delved into, dislikes (as in breaks)
>> when it resolves "mymachine"s address and ends up with 127.0.0.1
>> which is what happens when the above line is present in /etc/hosts.
>>
>> Will I break something else if I remove or replace the line
>> with the machine's "real" ip address which keeps bacula happy,
>> eg:
>>
>>   10.10.200.85  mymachine.xxx  mymachine

Thank you, I was hoping that would be the case.  From some
of the other replies it seems it purpose is to facilitate
running without a network, but I think I prioritize have
working backups more.


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Re: 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts

Stuart McGraw
In reply to this post by Karl Auer
On 11/27/2017 05:08 PM, Karl Auer wrote:

> On Mon, 2017-11-27 at 15:47 -0700, Stuart McGraw wrote:
>> What is the meaning of the line:
>>
>>   127.0.1.1  mymachine.xxx  mymachine
>
> It tells local resolvers that the names "mymachine" and "mymachine.xxx"
> have the IP address 127.0.1.1, so if you e.g. "ping mymachine" you will
> be pinging 127.0.1.1. There is nothing magical about it.
>
>> package install.)  I am installing some backup software (bacula)
>> which for reasons I haven't delved into, dislikes (as in breaks)
>> when it resolves "mymachine"s address and ends up with 127.0.0.1
>> which is what happens when the above line is present in /etc/hosts.  
>
> bacula getting 127.0.0.1 for "mymachine" has nothing to do with the
> above line in your /etc/hosts file. 127.0.0.1 is not the same as
> 127.0.1.1. If that is not a typo on your part, then something else is
> disturbing bacula.

Except that netstat shows bacula listening on 127.0.0.1 (and
broken) when the 127.0.1.1 line is in the hosts file and on
0.0.0.0 (and working) when it is not.

>> Will I break something else if I remove or replace the line
>> with the machine's "real" ip address which keeps bacula happy,
>> eg:
>>
>>   10.10.200.85  mymachine.xxx  mymachine
>
> The machine's "real IP address *is* 127.0.1.1 :-)

I know, that why I put it in quotes :-)
 
> The address 10.10.200.85 is the address of one interface on the
> machine.
>
> What is bacula trying to resolve? If it is trying to resolve
> "mymachine" or "mymachine.xxx"

yes.

> then it will be getting 127.0.1.1. You
> can fix that by configuring bacula to use a different name e.g.
> "boris", then appending that name and the appropriate address to
> /etc/hosts:
>
>    10.10.200.85 boris
>
> That is IMHO a nicer option that changing the mymachine line.

I hadn't thought of that, but I have done that in the past in other
situations and never liked it much, but you may be right.  I'll need
to ponder it a little more.  I could also just hardwire the ip address
into the bacula's config files but using a name seems a little less
fragile.

Thanks.


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Re: 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts

Stuart McGraw
In reply to this post by Oliver Grawert
On 11/27/2017 07:01 PM, Oliver Grawert wrote:

> hi,
> Am Montag, den 27.11.2017, 15:47 -0700 schrieb Stuart McGraw:
>> What is the meaning of the line:
>>
>>   127.0.1.1  mymachine.xxx  mymachine
>>
>> in my /etc/hosts file?  It was put in there by a Xubuntu-17.10
>> install (or to be more accurate, an Ubuntu server-17,10 + Xubuntu
>> package install.)  I am installing some backup software (bacula)
>> which for reasons I haven't delved into, dislikes (as in breaks)
>> when it resolves "mymachine"s address and ends up with 127.0.0.1
>> which is what happens when the above line is present in /etc/hosts.  
>>
>> Will I break something else if I remove or replace the line
>> with the machine's "real" ip address which keeps bacula happy,
>> eg:
>>
>>   10.10.200.85  mymachine.xxx  mymachine
>>
>> ?  Thanks...
>>
> see https://askubuntu.com/questions/754213/what-is-difference-between-l
> ocalhost-address-127-0-0-1-and-127-0-1-1
>
> which has the right pointer to a quote from the debian reference manual
> on this topic ... it is a placeholder IP to make sure some low level
> network features still work even if you are physically offline.
>
> ciao
> oli

That link was very helpful.  I am in fact concerned with maintaining
what connectivity I can even in the face of some machines or devices
being down (happens fairly frequently here) so it's something I need to
pay attention to.  But perhaps manually changing the hosts file in the
event of an outage might be good enough...  At least I know what I need
to think about.

Thanks.



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Re: 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts

Karl Auer
In reply to this post by Stuart McGraw
On Tue, 2017-11-28 at 00:07 -0700, Stuart McGraw wrote:
> Except that netstat shows bacula listening on 127.0.0.1 (and
> broken) when the 127.0.1.1 line is in the hosts file and on 
> 0.0.0.0 (and working) when it is not.

Then bacula is broken or something else is getting in the way. That
line as given CANNOT resolve to 127.0.0.1.

I'm starting to think about typos now...

Can you post your entire /etc/hosts file please?

Regards, K.

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Re: 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts

Tom H-4
In reply to this post by Stuart McGraw
On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 5:47 PM, Stuart McGraw <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> What is the meaning of the line:
>
> 127.0.1.1 mymachine.xxx mymachine
>
> in my /etc/hosts file? It was put in there by a Xubuntu-17.10
> install (or to be more accurate, an Ubuntu server-17,10 + Xubuntu
> package install.) I am installing some backup software (bacula)
> which for reasons I haven't delved into, dislikes (as in breaks)
> when it resolves "mymachine"s address and ends up with 127.0.0.1
> which is what happens when the above line is present in /etc/hosts.
>
> Will I break something else if I remove or replace the line
> with the machine's "real" ip address which keeps bacula happy,
> eg:
>
> 10.10.200.85 mymachine.xxx mymachine

You can replace the 127.0.1.1 line with the 10.10.200.85.

The 127.0.1.1 is useful for the hostname to be resolvable on
dhcp-provisioned systems. IIRC, there was a version (or were versions)
of Ubuntu where NM would edit "/etc/hosts" to insert the current dhcp
ip address.

Another solution would be to install "libnss-myhostname". It's a
subpackage of the "systemd" source package (like "udev"). It's not
installed by default because one of Ubuntu's core developers dislikes
it, IIRC, because he considers incompatible with Debian's 127.0.1.1
setup.

The output below is from my laptop with "libnss-myhostname" installed
and an EMPTY "/etc/hosts". [For some reason, Lennart chose to
associate 127.0.0.2 to a system's hostname rather than 127.0.1.1.
Debian and Ubuntu used to switch 127.0.0.2 to 127.0.1.1 but it looks
like this patch has been dropped.]

th@tosh ~ $ grep VERSION /etc/os-release
VERSION="18.04 LTS (Bionic Beaver)"
VERSION_ID="18.04"
VERSION_CODENAME=bionic

th@tosh ~ $ dpkg -l libnss-myhostname | grep ^ii
ii libnss-myhostname:amd64 235-2ubuntu3 amd64 nss module providing
fallback resolution for the current hostname

th@tosh ~ $ grep hosts /etc/nsswitch.conf
hosts: files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] resolve [!UNAVAIL=return]
dns myhostname

th@tosh ~ $ cat /etc/hosts

th@tosh ~ $ cat /etc/hostname
tosh

th@tosh ~ $ getent hosts 127.0.0.1
127.0.0.1 localhost

th@tosh ~ $ getent hosts 127.0.1.1

th@tosh ~ $ getent hosts 127.0.0.2
127.0.0.2 tosh

th@tosh ~ $ getent hosts 192.168.1.223
192.168.1.223 tosh

th@tosh ~ $ getent hosts tosh
fe80::e294:67ff:fe87:6aae tosh

th@tosh ~ $ getent ahosts tosh
fe80::e294:67ff:fe87:6aae STREAM tosh
fe80::e294:67ff:fe87:6aae DGRAM
fe80::e294:67ff:fe87:6aae RAW
192.168.1.223 STREAM
192.168.1.223 DGRAM
192.168.1.223 RAW

th@tosh ~ $

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Re: 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts

Stuart McGraw
In reply to this post by Karl Auer
On 11/28/2017 02:55 AM, Karl Auer wrote:
> On Tue, 2017-11-28 at 00:07 -0700, Stuart McGraw wrote:
>> Except that netstat shows bacula listening on 127.0.0.1 (and
>> broken) when the 127.0.1.1 line is in the hosts file and on
>> 0.0.0.0 (and working) when it is not.
>
> Then bacula is broken or something else is getting in the way. That
> line as given CANNOT resolve to 127.0.0.1.

I didn't look *inside* bacula so I don't know what it resolved as,
just that bacula decided, based on what it got, to listen on the
addresses I reported.

> I'm starting to think about typos now...

No typos, I've checked multiple times.

> Can you post your entire /etc/hosts file please?

It is the standard host file generated by a fresh install but at
this point, thanks to yours and the other responses, I think I
understand the factors involved, at least somewhat, and need to
think more about what I want to happen the rest of the network
is not available at boot time.


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Re: 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Stuart McGraw
On 27 November 2017 at 23:47, Stuart McGraw <[hidden email]> wrote:
> What is the meaning of the line:
>
>   127.0.1.1  mymachine.xxx  mymachine

Is it not 127.0.0.1?

That is your localhost or home address. All machines that have TCP/IP have that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Localhost

It's very well-known:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/5d6a/

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/hack-127-0-0-1

AFAIK you cannot have anything else on 127.x.y.z because the entire
127.*.*.* address range resolves to your own machine:

https://serverfault.com/questions/157496/why-is-loopback-ip-address-from-127-0-0-1-to-127-255-255-254

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Re: 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts

Tom H-4
On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 9:45 AM, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 27 November 2017 at 23:47, Stuart McGraw <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> What is the meaning of the line:
>>
>> 127.0.1.1 mymachine.xxx mymachine
>
> Is it not 127.0.0.1?
>
> That is your localhost or home address. All machines that have TCP/IP have that.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Localhost
>
> It's very well-known:
>
> http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/5d6a/
>
> http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/hack-127-0-0-1
>
> AFAIK you cannot have anything else on 127.x.y.z because the entire
> 127.*.*.* address range resolves to your own machine:
>
> https://serverfault.com/questions/157496/why-is-loopback-ip-address-from-127-0-0-1-to-127-255-255-254

?!

"127.0.0.1" should resolve to "localhost" and "localhost" should
resolve to "127.0.0.1". Debian's been using "127.0.1.1" since 2005 for
the system's hostname.

In 2005, AFAIR, Thomas Hood proposed an nss module that would resolve
the system's hostname to 127.0.1.1 so as not to have an entry for it
in "/etc/hosts" (which is exactly what Lennart's "nss-myhostname" -
called "libnss-myhostname" in Debian and Ubuntu - does, but with
127.0.0.2). There was pushback so he proposed adding a "127.0.1.1
system_hostname" line to "/etc/hosts". This was accepted and it became
the Debian and Ubuntu default.

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Re: 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts

Liam Proven
On 29 November 2017 at 22:11, Tom H <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> In 2005, AFAIR, Thomas Hood proposed an nss module that would resolve
> the system's hostname to 127.0.1.1 so as not to have an entry for it
> in "/etc/hosts" (which is exactly what Lennart's "nss-myhostname" -
> called "libnss-myhostname" in Debian and Ubuntu - does, but with
> 127.0.0.2). There was pushback so he proposed adding a "127.0.1.1
> system_hostname" line to "/etc/hosts". This was accepted and it became
> the Debian and Ubuntu default.

Interesting. News to me.

https://askubuntu.com/questions/754213/what-is-difference-between-localhost-address-127-0-0-1-and-127-0-1-1


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Re: 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts

Colin Watson
In reply to this post by Tom H-4
On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 04:11:58PM -0500, Tom H wrote:

> "127.0.0.1" should resolve to "localhost" and "localhost" should
> resolve to "127.0.0.1". Debian's been using "127.0.1.1" since 2005 for
> the system's hostname.
>
> In 2005, AFAIR, Thomas Hood proposed an nss module that would resolve
> the system's hostname to 127.0.1.1 so as not to have an entry for it
> in "/etc/hosts" (which is exactly what Lennart's "nss-myhostname" -
> called "libnss-myhostname" in Debian and Ubuntu - does, but with
> 127.0.0.2). There was pushback so he proposed adding a "127.0.1.1
> system_hostname" line to "/etc/hosts". This was accepted and it became
> the Debian and Ubuntu default.

Indeed.  Minor correction: this is only the case if the installer hasn't
been told that the system has a static IP address.

The overall goal here is that it should always be possible to round-trip
the system's hostname through name<->address lookups.  (If the hostname
were mapped to 127.0.0.1, then that wouldn't work because of the
collision with localhost, so it's useful to take advantage of the fact
that the lo interface has all of 127/8.)

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Re: 127.0.1.1 in /etc/hosts

Tom H-4
On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 6:11 AM, Colin Watson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 04:11:58PM -0500, Tom H wrote:
>>
>> "127.0.0.1" should resolve to "localhost" and "localhost" should
>> resolve to "127.0.0.1". Debian's been using "127.0.1.1" since 2005 for
>> the system's hostname.
>>
>> In 2005, AFAIR, Thomas Hood proposed an nss module that would resolve
>> the system's hostname to 127.0.1.1 so as not to have an entry for it
>> in "/etc/hosts" (which is exactly what Lennart's "nss-myhostname" -
>> called "libnss-myhostname" in Debian and Ubuntu - does, but with
>> 127.0.0.2). There was pushback so he proposed adding a "127.0.1.1
>> system_hostname" line to "/etc/hosts". This was accepted and it became
>> the Debian and Ubuntu default.
>
> Indeed.  Minor correction: this is only the case if the installer hasn't
> been told that the system has a static IP address.

Thanks and sorry. I assumed a dhcp setup :(

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