A Thought On Clamming People's Fears of Wiki Editing

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A Thought On Clamming People's Fears of Wiki Editing

Svetlana Belkin-2
All,

I was chatting with knome and slickymaster on an IRC channel and knome
said that many people who want to edit a wiki page are scared to edit a
wiki page or they fear that they lack the know-how of doing so.  My
thought is that I think we should add a bit somewhere on the Community
Help Wiki or our team page about the fact that we have wiki admins and
rollbacks.  I think this may lessen the fear.

My two cents.

Thank you.
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User Wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/belkinsa

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Re: A Thought On Clamming People's Fears of Wiki Editing

mh-dixon
+1 been there done that!  Also more pointers to which (pages) and what (needs to be done - yes I do know about tags) as part of the current wholesale efforts to assist in getting the right work to the right workers. My button worth, Martrin



From: Svetlana Belkin <[hidden email]>
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, 14 February 2014, 2:19
Subject: A Thought On Clamming People's Fears of Wiki Editing

All,

I was chatting with knome and slickymaster on an IRC channel and knome
said that many people who want to edit a wiki page are scared to edit a
wiki page or they fear that they lack the know-how of doing so.  My
thought is that I think we should add a bit somewhere on the Community
Help Wiki or our team page about the fact that we have wiki admins and
rollbacks.  I think this may lessen the fear.

My two cents.

Thank you.
--
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Member of: LoCo Contacts, Ubuntu Doc Team, Ubuntu Ohio, Ubuntu Women
User Wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/belkinsa

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Re: A Thought On Clamming People's Fears of Wiki Editing

Tom Davies
Hi :)
+1
It's a good plan! :)  I have also been there and done that.  It is not
ALWAYS effective immediately but it does sometimes lead people to
trying it out later when they think all the fuss has died down and
they can get on quietly.

Something else that seems to help is break-it-down.  Give people the
link to the page that shows recent changes on all pages.  That gives
them confidence that people are around to proof-read/review or at
least do  spot-checks.


Also there are 2 types of wiki-editors (at least when they start).
1st is good at content but hopeless with mark-up
2nd is good at (learning) mark-up but needs pages that have been
written by someone else

Doing the whole lot IS daunting but knowing the other type exists
takes a lot of that fear away.  It also helps if one of each sort can
be teamed-up in some way or if mentors are available.

I'd be happy to mentor someone if they only need an occasional nudge.
Probably best if people feel they can ask specific questions to the
relevant mailing list jic their mentor is not around.
Regards from
Tom :)








On 14 February 2014 08:22, Martin Dixon <[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1 been there done that!  Also more pointers to which (pages) and what
> (needs to be done - yes I do know about tags) as part of the current
> wholesale efforts to assist in getting the right work to the right workers.
> My button worth, Martrin
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Svetlana Belkin <[hidden email]>
> To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, 14 February 2014, 2:19
> Subject: A Thought On Clamming People's Fears of Wiki Editing
>
> All,
>
> I was chatting with knome and slickymaster on an IRC channel and knome
> said that many people who want to edit a wiki page are scared to edit a
> wiki page or they fear that they lack the know-how of doing so.  My
> thought is that I think we should add a bit somewhere on the Community
> Help Wiki or our team page about the fact that we have wiki admins and
> rollbacks.  I think this may lessen the fear.
>
> My two cents.
>
> Thank you.
> --
> Svetlana Belkin A.K.A: belkinsa
> Member of: LoCo Contacts, Ubuntu Doc Team, Ubuntu Ohio, Ubuntu Women
> User Wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/belkinsa
>
> --
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>
>
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[WIKI]Re: A Thought On Clamming People's Fears of Wiki Editing

Svetlana Belkin-2
On 02/14/2014 03:56 AM, Tom Davies wrote:
> Doing the whole lot IS daunting but knowing the other type exists
> takes a lot of that fear away.  It also helps if one of each sort can
> be teamed-up in some way or if mentors are available.
>
> I'd be happy to mentor someone if they only need an occasional nudge.
> Probably best if people feel they can ask specific questions to the
> relevant mailing list jic their mentor is not around.

I'm also willing to but I think we need to make a mentioning page for
our team that contains the information on the "program" and the list of
mentors.  I think the lack of this (of not having mentors) is also a
problem.
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User Wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/belkinsa

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Re: [WIKI]Re: A Thought On Clamming People's Fears of Wiki Editing

John Kim-2
Hello,

I agree that we need some mentors as well. Who would be interested in creating a mentioning page? 

The next important criteria for mentors is commitment and availability, so that both the mentors and their apprentices can help each other throughout the process. Mentorship should not be sporadic, but ideally last throughout an entire development cycle.

Here is one good example of a page that lists out members.   We can model the idea around this page.

John Kim
Ubuntu Contributor
www.launchpad.net/~kotux
[hidden email]

2014. 2. 14., 7:35, Svetlana Belkin <[hidden email]> 작성:

On 02/14/2014 03:56 AM, Tom Davies wrote:
Doing the whole lot IS daunting but knowing the other type exists
takes a lot of that fear away.  It also helps if one of each sort can
be teamed-up in some way or if mentors are available.

I'd be happy to mentor someone if they only need an occasional nudge.
Probably best if people feel they can ask specific questions to the
relevant mailing list jic their mentor is not around.

I'm also willing to but I think we need to make a mentioning page for
our team that contains the information on the "program" and the list of
mentors.  I think the lack of this (of not having mentors) is also a
problem.
--
Svetlana Belkin A.K.A: belkinsa
Member of: LoCo Contacts, Ubuntu Doc Team, Ubuntu Ohio, Ubuntu Women
User Wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/belkinsa

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Re: [WIKI]Re: A Thought On Clamming People's Fears of Wiki Editing

Svetlana Belkin-2
On 02/14/2014 11:49 AM, John Kim wrote:
> I agree that we need some mentors as well. Who would be interested in
> creating a mentioning page?
>
> The next important criteria for mentors is commitment and availability,
> so that both the mentors and their apprentices can help each other
> throughout the process. Mentorship should not be sporadic, but ideally
> last throughout an entire development cycle.

+1
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User Wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/belkinsa

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Re: [WIKI]Re: A Thought On Clamming People's Fears of Wiki Editing

Pasi Lallinaho-3
In reply to this post by John Kim-2
On 14/02/14 18:49, John Kim wrote:
Hello,

I agree that we need some mentors as well. Who would be interested in creating a mentioning page?

While I do agree that we need mentors, I'm not sure if we should assign specific mentors to new contributors. Since it seems there are enough people willing to mentor, why wouldn't we simply encourage people to join #ubuntu-doc (or write to the mailing list) ask ask away their questions?

The next important criteria for mentors is commitment and availability, so that both the mentors and their apprentices can help each other throughout the process. Mentorship should not be sporadic, but ideally last throughout an entire development cycle.

Mentorship that lasts throughout a cycle (or any other pre-specified timeframe) can be a pro for the mentoring cycle, but as you implied, it can be tough to find (enough) people who are willing to commit to help one or two people for six months.

I, personally, am not willing to make such commitment at this point. On the other hand, I'm usually quite active on IRC and always willing to help people when they need a hand.


Here is one good example of a page that lists out members.   We can model the idea around this page.

John Kim
Ubuntu Contributor
www.launchpad.net/~kotux
[hidden email]


Cheers,
Pasi
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Re: [WIKI]Re: A Thought On Clamming People's Fears of Wiki Editing

Elizabeth K. Joseph
In reply to this post by John Kim-2
On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 8:49 AM, John Kim <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Here is one good example of a page that lists out members.   We can model
> the idea around this page.
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartUbuntu/WhoAreWe

I don't like these pages and don't participate in them. They're pretty
much unmaintainable and end up still being a poor reflection of who is
involved, which is very discouraging when people reach out to these
people and they don't get a response. Instead I'd encourage folks to
sign up for respective teams (ie
https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc-contributors if you're working on
desktop docs) and maintain a personal wiki page on wiki.ubuntu.com so
it's easy to learn what you're working on.

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Re: [WIKI]Re: A Thought On Clamming People's Fears of Wiki Editing

Elizabeth K. Joseph
In reply to this post by Pasi Lallinaho-3
On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 9:01 AM, Pasi Lallinaho <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Mentorship that lasts throughout a cycle (or any other pre-specified
> timeframe) can be a pro for the mentoring cycle, but as you implied, it can
> be tough to find (enough) people who are willing to commit to help one or
> two people for six months.
>
> I, personally, am not willing to make such commitment at this point. On the
> other hand, I'm usually quite active on IRC and always willing to help
> people when they need a hand.

+1, I've never been involved in a successful mentoring program in the
Ubuntu project. Mentors get busy, mentees get busy and it's very
difficult to manage expectations on both sides ("my mentor never
replies" "my mentee won't do anything for themselves").

Asking folks to join the main team resources and having casual
mentorships grow organically works much better.

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Re: [WIKI]Re: A Thought On Clamming People's Fears of Wiki Editing

Svetlana Belkin-2
On 02/14/2014 01:25 PM, Elizabeth Krumbach Joseph wrote:
> Asking folks to join the main team resources and having casual
> mentorships grow organically works much better.

Duh, I forgot all of the issues with the formal system.  But if one asks
for a mentor, can this system of formal mentoring be used?

Anyways, I can remember many times here or in the other teams, that I'm
a part of, where I was informally mentored.  One such example, is you,
Liz, you taught me how to reply to mailing-list e-mails correctly.  And
you ,Tom, also.
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User Wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/belkinsa

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Re: [WIKI]Re: A Thought On Clamming People's Fears of Wiki Editing

John Kim-2
Right, I see where you guys were getting at.  I like to learn organically, too; I learned quite a bit from Kevin Godby a while back, as he was available when I had lots of questions.

We need to be as approachable as possible in our discussions in the mailing lists as well as in IRC. For me personally, I haven’t been on IRC for some time.

John Kim
Student / Ubuntu 12.04 User



On Feb 14, 2014, at 12:17, Svetlana Belkin <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 02/14/2014 01:25 PM, Elizabeth Krumbach Joseph wrote:
Asking folks to join the main team resources and having casual
mentorships grow organically works much better.

Duh, I forgot all of the issues with the formal system.  But if one asks
for a mentor, can this system of formal mentoring be used?

Anyways, I can remember many times here or in the other teams, that I'm
a part of, where I was informally mentored.  One such example, is you,
Liz, you taught me how to reply to mailing-list e-mails correctly.  And
you ,Tom, also.
--
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Member of: LoCo Contacts, Ubuntu Doc Team, Ubuntu Ohio, Ubuntu Women
User Wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/belkinsa

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Re: [WIKI]Re: A Thought On Clamming People's Fears of Wiki Editing

Svetlana Belkin-2
On 02/14/2014 05:23 PM, John Kim wrote:
> We need to be as approachable as possible in our discussions in the
> mailing lists as well as in IRC. For me personally, I haven’t been on
> IRC for some time.

You should, we have a lot of action right now in the channel.  ;)
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[WIKI]Re: A Thought On Clamming People's Fears of Wiki Editing

Svetlana Belkin-2
In reply to this post by Svetlana Belkin-2
On 02/13/2014 09:19 PM, Svetlana Belkin wrote:
> I was chatting with knome and slickymaster on an IRC channel and knome
> said that many people who want to edit a wiki page are scared to edit a
> wiki page or they fear that they lack the know-how of doing so.  My
> thought is that I think we should add a bit somewhere on the Community
> Help Wiki or our team page about the fact that we have wiki admins and
> rollbacks.  I think this may lessen the fear.

I had a thought while working on the outline to my lesson on the Wiki
part of the team for our classroom session about the rollback feature.
This is what I wrote in the outline:

" i. Please don't fear that your content is wrong, we have wiki admins
that can approve the change or you can always rollback to the version
before your change
 a) How to this:
Log in via LP
Under the “Ubuntu Wiki”, you should see a menu bar that starts with “Edit”
Next to the 'Edit”, you should see a “Info” button- this will take you
to a page called Revision History
Here you can see:
Revision Number (#) - which shows how many revisons the page gone through
Date – which shows when the revison was made
Size – which shows how large the page and/or if there is attachments to
the page
Diff - which allows to compare two versions of the same page
Editor – which allows to see who done the last edit
Comment – which allows to see what the editor did, if there is a comment
Action – which allows to view the page without the diff
Clicking on “View” will allow to enter the revison
Go back to the menu bar under the Ubuntu Wiki banner and find the drop
down that is labled, “More Actions:”.
Scroll down to “Revert to this revison”.
Another page will pop up after section
You can comment on why you doing this
And select “Revert” if you are sure on the choice"

I think this should be added somewhere so users are aware of this along
with something about the wiki admins having the power to view the edits.

Thank you.
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User Wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/belkinsa

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Re: [WIKI]Re: A Thought On Clamming People's Fears of Wiki Editing

Pasi Lallinaho-3
In reply to this post by Svetlana Belkin-2
On 14/02/14 22:17, Svetlana Belkin wrote:

> On 02/14/2014 01:25 PM, Elizabeth Krumbach Joseph wrote:
>> Asking folks to join the main team resources and having casual
>> mentorships grow organically works much better.
> Duh, I forgot all of the issues with the formal system.  But if one asks
> for a mentor, can this system of formal mentoring be used?
>
> Anyways, I can remember many times here or in the other teams, that I'm
> a part of, where I was informally mentored.  One such example, is you,
> Liz, you taught me how to reply to mailing-list e-mails correctly.  And
> you ,Tom, also.

If somebody seeks a formal mentor that can commit to mentoring on a
longer timeframe, and there is a senior mentor who is willing to commit
to this, I don't see no reason why they couldn't mutually agree to such
mentoring.

Pasi

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Re: [WIKI]Re: A Thought On Clamming People's Fears of Wiki Editing

Tom Davies
Hi :)
Sorry folks!!  My mention of mentoring seeems to have gained a lot of
attention!  I was really thinking of the type of informal stuff that
many of us do through the mailing-list already.  Formalised mentoring
is difficult to administer but through the lists if someone asks for
help i think they usually get support for the specific thing they need
help with and maybe a bit more too.

If we are going to have a page to reduce people's fears about
wiki-editing it might be worth mentioning that and giving a few names
of people who have kinda done bits&bobs of mentoring in the past or
who might be willing in the future (time permitting) so that noobs can
see there are folks around, even though they might end up getting help
from people who are not even on list of examples.


My main point had been to agree with Svetlana that it's good to let
the noobs know there are admins and such but i was also hoping that we
could point out there is less intense help available and that no-one
needs to be good at both 'coding' and content because whichever a
person IS good at there is always someone who is good at the other.

Regards from
Tom :)








On 14 February 2014 23:32, Pasi Lallinaho <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 14/02/14 22:17, Svetlana Belkin wrote:
>> On 02/14/2014 01:25 PM, Elizabeth Krumbach Joseph wrote:
>>> Asking folks to join the main team resources and having casual
>>> mentorships grow organically works much better.
>> Duh, I forgot all of the issues with the formal system.  But if one asks
>> for a mentor, can this system of formal mentoring be used?
>>
>> Anyways, I can remember many times here or in the other teams, that I'm
>> a part of, where I was informally mentored.  One such example, is you,
>> Liz, you taught me how to reply to mailing-list e-mails correctly.  And
>> you ,Tom, also.
>
> If somebody seeks a formal mentor that can commit to mentoring on a
> longer timeframe, and there is a senior mentor who is willing to commit
> to this, I don't see no reason why they couldn't mutually agree to such
> mentoring.
>
> Pasi
>
> --
> Pasi Lallinaho (knome)                      » http://open.knome.fi/
> Leader of Shimmer Project and Xubuntu       » http://shimmerproject.org/
> Graphic artist, webdesigner, Ubuntu member  » http://xubuntu.org/
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