Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

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Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

Chris Green
After my problems with systemd-resolved being unable to resolve
unqualified names I've hit another issue that seems to be a resolver
problem as well.

I left my laptop running for a few days and this morning DNS was
broken, most queries were getting REFUSED returned by the local
resolver.  All other systems on the LAN (not yet 17.04) had DNS
functioning OK.

Restarting system-resolved seems to have fixed the problem (I did mean
to send it a SIGUSR2 but killed it by mistake).

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Re: Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

David Fletcher-5
On Wed, 2017-06-21 at 10:04 +0100, Chris Green wrote:
> After my problems with systemd-resolved being unable to resolve
>

Two copies! What's going on?

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Re: Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

R Kimber-3
On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 02:18:14 -0700
David Fletcher wrote:

> On Wed, 2017-06-21 at 10:04 +0100, Chris Green wrote:
> > After my problems with systemd-resolved being unable to resolve
> >  
>
> Two copies! What's going on?
>

I've been getting two copies of everything for a couple of days.

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Re: Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

Chris Green
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 10:33:18AM +0100, R Kimber wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 02:18:14 -0700
> David Fletcher wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2017-06-21 at 10:04 +0100, Chris Green wrote:
> > > After my problems with systemd-resolved being unable to resolve
> > >  
> >
> > Two copies! What's going on?
> >
>
> I've been getting two copies of everything for a couple of days.
>
Yes, OP here, I've noticed it too.  Just on this list thuough.

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Re: Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

David Fletcher-5
On Wed, 2017-06-21 at 10:36 +0100, Chris Green wrote:
> I've been getting two copies of everything for a couple of days.
> >
> Yes, OP here, I've noticed it too.  Just on this list thuough.

I notice that the header of one copy includes

Newsgroups: local.ubuntu.users

Looking back at previous threads, it's not in those.

D

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Re: Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

Tom H-4
In reply to this post by Chris Green
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 5:04 AM, Chris Green <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> After my problems with systemd-resolved being unable to resolve
> unqualified names I've hit another issue that seems to be a
> resolver problem as well.
>
> I left my laptop running for a few days and this morning DNS was
> broken, most queries were getting REFUSED returned by the local
> resolver. All other systems on the LAN (not yet 17.04) had DNS
> functioning OK.
>
> Restarting system-resolved seems to have fixed the problem (I did
> mean to send it a SIGUSR2 but killed it by mistake).

Without the relevant logs, no one'll be able to help you - here or in
a bug report.

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Re: Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

Tom H-4
In reply to this post by R Kimber-3
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 5:33 AM, R Kimber
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 02:18:14 -0700 David Fletcher wrote:
>> On Wed, 2017-06-21 at 10:04 +0100, Chris Green wrote:
>>>
>>> After my problems with systemd-resolved being unable to resolve
>>
>> Two copies! What's going on?
>
> I've been getting two copies of everything for a couple of days.

Not here, but it might be a Gmail particularity.

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Re: Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

Tom H-4
In reply to this post by R Kimber-3
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 5:33 AM, R Kimber
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 02:18:14 -0700 David Fletcher wrote:
>> On Wed, 2017-06-21 at 10:04 +0100, Chris Green wrote:
>>>
>>> After my problems with systemd-resolved being unable to resolve
>>
>> Two copies! What's going on?
>
> I've been getting two copies of everything for a couple of days.

Not here, but it might be a Gmail particularity.

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Re: Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

Xen
In reply to this post by Tom H-4
Tom H schreef op 21-06-2017 12:35:

>> Restarting system-resolved seems to have fixed the problem (I did
>> mean to send it a SIGUSR2 but killed it by mistake).
>
> Without the relevant logs, no one'll be able to help you - here or in
> a bug report.

Something like that is not just about help. It is also to tell others
that the system is faulty.

The whole idea of software is that you make it right for ALL people.
Solving one person's problems doesn't mean much. The whole idea is that
the ones responsible take note of the issue, not just that one person's
problems are solved.

So you misinterpret the intent of the message. The intent is not just to
get personal help. The intent is also to give help, but this is then
misunderstood.

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Re: Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

Chris Green
In reply to this post by Tom H-4
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 06:36:30AM -0400, Tom H wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 5:33 AM, R Kimber
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 02:18:14 -0700 David Fletcher wrote:
> >> On Wed, 2017-06-21 at 10:04 +0100, Chris Green wrote:
> >>>
> >>> After my problems with systemd-resolved being unable to resolve
> >>
> >> Two copies! What's going on?
> >
> > I've been getting two copies of everything for a couple of days.
>
> Not here, but it might be a Gmail particularity.
>
I'm not using Gmail and I'm getting two copies.

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Re: Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

Chris Green
In reply to this post by Tom H-4
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 06:35:13AM -0400, Tom H wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 5:04 AM, Chris Green <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > After my problems with systemd-resolved being unable to resolve
> > unqualified names I've hit another issue that seems to be a
> > resolver problem as well.
> >
> > I left my laptop running for a few days and this morning DNS was
> > broken, most queries were getting REFUSED returned by the local
> > resolver. All other systems on the LAN (not yet 17.04) had DNS
> > functioning OK.
> >
> > Restarting system-resolved seems to have fixed the problem (I did
> > mean to send it a SIGUSR2 but killed it by mistake).
>
> Without the relevant logs, no one'll be able to help you - here or in
> a bug report.
>
So what/where are 'the relevant logs', the system hasn't been
restarted.

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Re: Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

Jim Ohlstein
In reply to this post by Chris Green
Hello,

On 06/21/2017 07:18 AM, Chris Green wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 06:36:30AM -0400, Tom H wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 5:33 AM, R Kimber
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 02:18:14 -0700 David Fletcher wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 2017-06-21 at 10:04 +0100, Chris Green wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> After my problems with systemd-resolved being unable to resolve
>>>>
>>>> Two copies! What's going on?
>>>
>>> I've been getting two copies of everything for a couple of days.
>>
>> Not here, but it might be a Gmail particularity.
>>
> I'm not using Gmail and I'm getting two copies.
>

Ditto

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Re: Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

Gene Heskett-2
In reply to this post by Chris Green
On Wednesday 21 June 2017 07:18:46 Chris Green wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 06:36:30AM -0400, Tom H wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 5:33 AM, R Kimber
> >
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 02:18:14 -0700 David Fletcher wrote:
> > >> On Wed, 2017-06-21 at 10:04 +0100, Chris Green wrote:
> > >>> After my problems with systemd-resolved being unable to resolve
> > >>
> > >> Two copies! What's going on?
> > >
> > > I've been getting two copies of everything for a couple of days.
> >
> > Not here, but it might be a Gmail particularity.
>
> I'm not using Gmail and I'm getting two copies.
>
Same on both counts here.
> --
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Re: Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

Jim Ohlstein
Hello,

On 06/21/2017 07:23 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Wednesday 21 June 2017 07:18:46 Chris Green wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 06:36:30AM -0400, Tom H wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 5:33 AM, R Kimber
>>>
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 02:18:14 -0700 David Fletcher wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 2017-06-21 at 10:04 +0100, Chris Green wrote:
>>>>>> After my problems with systemd-resolved being unable to resolve
>>>>>
>>>>> Two copies! What's going on?
>>>>
>>>> I've been getting two copies of everything for a couple of days.
>>>
>>> Not here, but it might be a Gmail particularity.
>>
>> I'm not using Gmail and I'm getting two copies.
>>
> Same on both counts here.

The emails that are being duplicated are being sent to the mailing list
and the local.ubuntu.users Newsgroup "local.ubuntu.users". I guess those
are imported by Mailman and sent to the list again.

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Re: Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

Karl Auer
In reply to this post by Chris Green
On Wed, 2017-06-21 at 12:18 +0100, Chris Green wrote:


... another message in a thread that has started to deliver duplicates.

I suspect someone hijacked the filesystem thread to start this one.

This message deliberately breaks the thread; it is not a reply to the
thread even though it looks like one. It's an anti-hijack :-)

Regards, K.

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Re: Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

Tom H-4
In reply to this post by Xen
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:08 AM, Xen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Tom H schreef op 21-06-2017 12:35:
>>>
>>> Restarting system-resolved seems to have fixed the problem (I did
>>> mean to send it a SIGUSR2 but killed it by mistake).
>>
>> Without the relevant logs, no one'll be able to help you - here or
>> in a bug report.
>
> Something like that is not just about help. It is also to tell
> others that the system is faulty.
>
> The whole idea of software is that you make it right for ALL
> people. Solving one person's problems doesn't mean much. The whole
> idea is that the ones responsible take note of the issue, not just
> that one person's problems are solved.
>
> So you misinterpret the intent of the message. The intent is not
> just to get personal help. The intent is also to give help, but
> this is then misunderstood.

This list is for "technical support" so it's correct to assume that
Chris is asking for help!

Anyway, whether it's for help or not, it's a useless email. It's like
saying "I installed 17.04 and it doesn't boot." It's unhelpful to the
OP, to anyone receiving the email, and to Ubuntu (as well as to
whatever upstream's concerned).

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Re: Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

Tom H-4
In reply to this post by Xen
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:08 AM, Xen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Tom H schreef op 21-06-2017 12:35:
>>>
>>> Restarting system-resolved seems to have fixed the problem (I did
>>> mean to send it a SIGUSR2 but killed it by mistake).
>>
>> Without the relevant logs, no one'll be able to help you - here or
>> in a bug report.
>
> Something like that is not just about help. It is also to tell
> others that the system is faulty.
>
> The whole idea of software is that you make it right for ALL
> people. Solving one person's problems doesn't mean much. The whole
> idea is that the ones responsible take note of the issue, not just
> that one person's problems are solved.
>
> So you misinterpret the intent of the message. The intent is not
> just to get personal help. The intent is also to give help, but
> this is then misunderstood.

This list is for "technical support" so it's correct to assume that
Chris is asking for help!

Anyway, whether it's for help or not, it's a useless email. It's like
saying "I installed 17.04 and it doesn't boot." It's unhelpful to the
OP, to anyone receiving the email, and to Ubuntu (as well as to
whatever upstream's concerned).

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Re: Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

Tom H-4
In reply to this post by Chris Green
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:19 AM, Chris Green <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 06:35:13AM -0400, Tom H wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 5:04 AM, Chris Green <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> After my problems with systemd-resolved being unable to resolve
>>> unqualified names I've hit another issue that seems to be a
>>> resolver problem as well.
>>>
>>> I left my laptop running for a few days and this morning DNS was
>>> broken, most queries were getting REFUSED returned by the local
>>> resolver. All other systems on the LAN (not yet 17.04) had DNS
>>> functioning OK.
>>>
>>> Restarting system-resolved seems to have fixed the problem (I did
>>> mean to send it a SIGUSR2 but killed it by mistake).
>>
>> Without the relevant logs, no one'll be able to help you - here or in
>> a bug report.
>
> So what/where are 'the relevant logs', the system hasn't been
> restarted.

All syslog managers log more than just boot messages!

For RELEVANT messages, you could start with "journalctl -u
systemd-resolved.service".

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Re: Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

Tom H-4
In reply to this post by Chris Green
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:19 AM, Chris Green <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 06:35:13AM -0400, Tom H wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 5:04 AM, Chris Green <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> After my problems with systemd-resolved being unable to resolve
>>> unqualified names I've hit another issue that seems to be a
>>> resolver problem as well.
>>>
>>> I left my laptop running for a few days and this morning DNS was
>>> broken, most queries were getting REFUSED returned by the local
>>> resolver. All other systems on the LAN (not yet 17.04) had DNS
>>> functioning OK.
>>>
>>> Restarting system-resolved seems to have fixed the problem (I did
>>> mean to send it a SIGUSR2 but killed it by mistake).
>>
>> Without the relevant logs, no one'll be able to help you - here or in
>> a bug report.
>
> So what/where are 'the relevant logs', the system hasn't been
> restarted.

All syslog managers log more than just boot messages!

For RELEVANT messages, you could start with "journalctl -u
systemd-resolved.service".

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Re: Another systemd-resolved problem in 17.04

Xen
In reply to this post by Tom H-4
Tom H schreef op 21-06-2017 18:05:

> This list is for "technical support" so it's correct to assume that
> Chris is asking for help!

What if you're wrong?

What if it's a combined effort of making aware and asking for help?

What if this is the info he had, and he chose to share it, instead of
doing nothing and also being stuck in it?

To keep moving is to find solutions, and this may be the moving that was
possible for him.

So it's not useless at all.

For instance, it informs me once more to stay away from the thing.


> Anyway, whether it's for help or not, it's a useless email. It's like
> saying "I installed 17.04 and it doesn't boot." It's unhelpful to the
> OP, to anyone receiving the email, and to Ubuntu (as well as to
> whatever upstream's concerned).

If I was a developer (and I am, but I mean in the position of being
responsible for a certain creation of mine) and someone told me that my
DNS resolver would stop working it would tell me at least three things:

- I released a broken product
- The user doesn't know where to find logs
- The same user in a default configuration already personally ran into 2
bugs.

And the error condition is something to do with a "REFUSED" return.

Now in the other email and this one you say that:

- the user is at fault for sending in a lacking failure report
- the user is at fault for not knowing where to find information in
order to send in a more complete report

Both things can and could be resolved by the developer prior to the
thing even happening.

Most commercial applications (and non-commercial, but mainstream)
collect error information themselves and offer to send a report to the
originator of the software.

Of course you can hardly do so when DNS is down ;-). But still.

If you prepare this ground-work in advance as a developer you can save a
whole lot of people a whole lot of time and it probably would cost you
much less time than it would save the users.

We have the apport system.

However the apport system first asks the user to install an unspecified
list of debug packages before it will allow the user to send in
anything.

Instead of a 2 second job, it often turns into 15 minutes.

When you search online (I just did) 4 of the 5 first answers (in Google)
are about disabling the thing.

It comes nowhere near being a functional system.

This just wastes endless amounts of time because the plumbing is not
there.

If then, in the space of this, users send in incomplete reports, you
cannot really blame the users for that.

Instead we get more new systems that create more new problems without
getting systems that would help wasting less time on existing problems.

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