Any suggestions for library administration software please?

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Any suggestions for library administration software please?

David Fletcher-5
My girlfriend is in Kathmandu at the moment. She's been trying but
failing to get a laptop set up with database software for a new
community library that's being built in an area to the north that's
been ravaged by earthquakes. The building is up, books are being
delivered, and she's carried a pack of 1000 serial numbered membership
cards and other materials there.

Apparently internet connections in the community are sketchy to say the
least.

I've been doing a little searching with Google and discovered projects
such as Evergreen, BiblioteQ and Koha but can't locate anything in the
repositories, which would be ideal.

Please, does anybody know of any solutions?

Regards,

Dave

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Re: Any suggestions for library administration software please?

Robert Heller
At Sat, 16 Nov 2019 14:53:38 +0000 [hidden email], "Ubuntu user technical support,  not for general discussions" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> My girlfriend is in Kathmandu at the moment. She's been trying but
> failing to get a laptop set up with database software for a new
> community library that's being built in an area to the north that's
> been ravaged by earthquakes. The building is up, books are being
> delivered, and she's carried a pack of 1000 serial numbered membership
> cards and other materials there.
>
> Apparently internet connections in the community are sketchy to say the
> least.
>
> I've been doing a little searching with Google and discovered projects
> such as Evergreen, BiblioteQ and Koha but can't locate anything in the
> repositories, which would be ideal.
There is not likely to be anything in the repos for that.

It should be possible to install any of the above on a LAMP server. I believe
that they are all "Web Based" -- they should work on an "IntraNet" (eg a
private LAN with a LAMP server on it), but I don't know for sure.  The above
mentioned packages are meant for a fairly "big" library or library "system"
(collection of libraries) and might be overkill for a small, isolated library.

One option that I know will work on an isolated "IntraNet" Web Server is
WordPress with the WebLibrarian plugin. But you will have to download the Zip
files (for WP and WebLibrarian) to a thumb drive if there is no Internet
available. And yes, if the Laptop is running Ubuntu, it can be set up as a
LAMP server. (The AMP bits are in the repo: Apache, MySQL, and PHP).

>
> Please, does anybody know of any solutions?
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave
>

--
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Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
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Re: Any suggestions for library administration software please?

Marco Fioretti
In reply to this post by David Fletcher-5
On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 15:54, David Fletcher <[hidden email]> wrote:
My girlfriend is in Kathmandu at the moment. She's been trying but
failing to get a laptop set up with database software

Hi David,

it is possible that these guys in Nepal can help them on the ground: http://www.olenepal.org/what-we-do/e-pustakalaya/

 
HTH,
Marco

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Re: Any suggestions for library administration software please?

Mike Marchywka
In reply to this post by Robert Heller
On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 12:08:43PM -0500, Robert Heller wrote:

> At Sat, 16 Nov 2019 14:53:38 +0000 [hidden email], "Ubuntu user technical support,  not for general discussions" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >
> > My girlfriend is in Kathmandu at the moment. She's been trying but
> > failing to get a laptop set up with database software for a new
> > community library that's being built in an area to the north that's
> > been ravaged by earthquakes. The building is up, books are being
> > delivered, and she's carried a pack of 1000 serial numbered membership
> > cards and other materials there.
> >
> > Apparently internet connections in the community are sketchy to say the
> > least.
> >
> > I've been doing a little searching with Google and discovered projects
> > such as Evergreen, BiblioteQ??and Koha but can't locate anything in the
> > repositories, which would be ideal.
>
> There is not likely to be anything in the repos for that.
>
> It should be possible to install any of the above on a LAMP server. I believe
> that they are all "Web Based" -- they should work on an "IntraNet" (eg a
> private LAN with a LAMP server on it), but I don't know for sure.  The above
> mentioned packages are meant for a fairly "big" library or library "system"
> (collection of libraries) and might be overkill for a small, isolated library.

Any idea if the html asset management stuff would be suitable?
I've posted a few times on the joomla forums looking for interest
in modified bibtex files to use for "bill of materials" to help
get more web pages to include citation buttons. AFAICT, they have
lots of users ( they claim 10,000 views for many forum posts on diverse
topics). Maybe someone there would have an idea.

This is their "extensions" forum where people tend to ask about specialized
applications and experienced users may be able to point you to existing
widgets,

https://forum.joomla.org/viewforum.php?f=715&sid=78c9f57ba119d07f22927166cd97c2ed

fwiw, my BoMTeX threads,

https://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/2019-October/thread.html#24072
 

>
> One option that I know will work on an isolated "IntraNet" Web Server is
> WordPress with the WebLibrarian plugin. But you will have to download the Zip
> files (for WP and WebLibrarian) to a thumb drive if there is no Internet
> available. And yes, if the Laptop is running Ubuntu, it can be set up as a
> LAMP server. (The AMP bits are in the repo: Apache, MySQL, and PHP).
>
> >
> > Please, does anybody know of any solutions?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Dave
> >
>
> --
> Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933
> Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
> http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
> [hidden email]       -- Webhosting Services
>                                                                                  
>

> --
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> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users


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Re: Any suggestions for library administration software please?

Mike Marchywka
On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 08:14:49PM +0000, Mike Marchywka wrote:

> On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 12:08:43PM -0500, Robert Heller wrote:
> > At Sat, 16 Nov 2019 14:53:38 +0000 [hidden email], "Ubuntu user technical support,  not for general discussions" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > My girlfriend is in Kathmandu at the moment. She's been trying but
> > > failing to get a laptop set up with database software for a new
> > > community library that's being built in an area to the north that's
> > > been ravaged by earthquakes. The building is up, books are being
> > > delivered, and she's carried a pack of 1000 serial numbered membership
> > > cards and other materials there.
> > >
> > > Apparently internet connections in the community are sketchy to say the
> > > least.
> > >
> > > I've been doing a little searching with Google and discovered projects
> > > such as Evergreen, BiblioteQ??and Koha but can't locate anything in the
> > > repositories, which would be ideal.
> >
> > There is not likely to be anything in the repos for that.
> >
> > It should be possible to install any of the above on a LAMP server. I believe
> > that they are all "Web Based" -- they should work on an "IntraNet" (eg a
> > private LAN with a LAMP server on it), but I don't know for sure.  The above
> > mentioned packages are meant for a fairly "big" library or library "system"
> > (collection of libraries) and might be overkill for a small, isolated library.

I was curious though if there are highly scaled down related packages for
personal use or authors to track their own library of documents?
For example, if you get beyond social media factoids and write short
essays or letters or "citizen scientist" papers or DIY projects,
how can you track and organize these things? I wrote some scripts
to generate "technicalreport" bibtex entries as I come up with
new topics and want to organize notes and I have seen browser plugins
for citation downloads. Not sure though what command line utilities
may exist- I guess something that tracked documents in latex
with version control using just command line utilities.
And intead of "check out" perhaps a list of where the documents were sent
or if possible downloaded from other servers and collate feedback
as is now common on scientific papers.

Thanks.


>
> Any idea if the html asset management stuff would be suitable?
> I've posted a few times on the joomla forums looking for interest
> in modified bibtex files to use for "bill of materials" to help
> get more web pages to include citation buttons. AFAICT, they have
> lots of users ( they claim 10,000 views for many forum posts on diverse
> topics). Maybe someone there would have an idea.
>
> This is their "extensions" forum where people tend to ask about specialized
> applications and experienced users may be able to point you to existing
> widgets,
>
> https://forum.joomla.org/viewforum.php?f=715&sid=78c9f57ba119d07f22927166cd97c2ed
>
> fwiw, my BoMTeX threads,
>
> https://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/2019-October/thread.html#24072
>  
>
> >
> > One option that I know will work on an isolated "IntraNet" Web Server is
> > WordPress with the WebLibrarian plugin. But you will have to download the Zip
> > files (for WP and WebLibrarian) to a thumb drive if there is no Internet
> > available. And yes, if the Laptop is running Ubuntu, it can be set up as a
> > LAMP server. (The AMP bits are in the repo: Apache, MySQL, and PHP).
> >
> > >
> > > Please, does anybody know of any solutions?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933
> > Deepwoods Software        -- Custom Software Services
> > http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
> > [hidden email]       -- Webhosting Services
> >                                                                                  
> >
>
> > --
> > ubuntu-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
>
>
> --
>
> mike marchywka
> 306 charles cox
> canton GA 30115
> USA, Earth
> [hidden email]
> 404-788-1216
> ORCID: 0000-0001-9237-455X
>
> --
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Re: Any suggestions for library administration software please?

Little Girl
Hey there,

Mike Marchywka wrote:

>I was curious though if there are highly scaled down related
>packages for personal use or authors to track their own library of
>documents? For example, if you get beyond social media factoids and
>write short essays or letters or "citizen scientist" papers or DIY
>projects, how can you track and organize these things? I wrote some
>scripts to generate "technicalreport" bibtex entries as I come up
>with new topics and want to organize notes and I have seen browser
>plugins for citation downloads. Not sure though what command line
>utilities may exist- I guess something that tracked documents in
>latex with version control using just command line utilities.
>And intead of "check out" perhaps a list of where the documents were
>sent or if possible downloaded from other servers and collate
>feedback as is now common on scientific papers.

This isn't what you're after, but I couldn't help thinking of it when
you mentioned organizing things. It's called Paperbox:

https://wiki.gnome.org/Attic/Paperbox

The reason it's in the attic on the Gnome wiki is because it's
obsolete, but retained for historical reasons:

https://wiki.gnome.org/Attic

Also, I went to AlternativeTo.net and did a search for "citation" and
came up with 115 pages of results. This should be enough to keep you
busy for a long time to come and might turn up something useful:

https://alternativeto.net/browse/search?q=citation

Each result displays a brief description, screenshots and/or a video,
lists whether it's free or commercial, lists the platforms it runs
on, and lists its alternatives. If you happen to find one that's
close, but not quite right, its alternatives will be listed just
beneath it, giving you one huge rabbit hole to climb into and wade
around in. Some of the programs aren't in the Ubuntu package manager,
so you'll have to search the package manager for any that seem
interesting.

--
Little Girl

There is no spoon.

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Re: Any suggestions for library administration software please?

Mike Marchywka
On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 08:53:24AM -0500, Little Girl wrote:

> Hey there,
>
> Mike Marchywka wrote:
>
> >I was curious though if there are highly scaled down related
> >packages for personal use or authors to track their own library of
> >documents? For example, if you get beyond social media factoids and
> >write short essays or letters or "citizen scientist" papers or DIY
> >projects, how can you track and organize these things? I wrote some
> >scripts to generate "technicalreport" bibtex entries as I come up
> >with new topics and want to organize notes and I have seen browser
> >plugins for citation downloads. Not sure though what command line
> >utilities may exist- I guess something that tracked documents in
> >latex with version control using just command line utilities.
> >And intead of "check out" perhaps a list of where the documents were
> >sent or if possible downloaded from other servers and collate
> >feedback as is now common on scientific papers.
>
> This isn't what you're after, but I couldn't help thinking of it when
> you mentioned organizing things. It's called Paperbox:
>
> https://wiki.gnome.org/Attic/Paperbox
>
> The reason it's in the attic on the Gnome wiki is because it's
> obsolete, but retained for historical reasons:
>
> https://wiki.gnome.org/Attic
>
> Also, I went to AlternativeTo.net and did a search for "citation" and
> came up with 115 pages of results. This should be enough to keep you
> busy for a long time to come and might turn up something useful:
>
> https://alternativeto.net/browse/search?q=citation
>
> Each result displays a brief description, screenshots and/or a video,
> lists whether it's free or commercial, lists the platforms it runs
> on, and lists its alternatives. If you happen to find one that's
> close, but not quite right, its alternatives will be listed just
> beneath it, giving you one huge rabbit hole to climb into and wade
> around in. Some of the programs aren't in the Ubuntu package manager,
> so you'll have to search the package manager for any that seem
> interesting.

Thanks, checking the first page there seem to be several biblio things
that generate specific bib formats rather than just getting say bibtex.
My scripts aren't yet perfect, I'm moving to c++ now that I understand
the logic, but I can now get bibtex and hence flexibly bibliographies
from most site that have the information available. The BoMTeX thing
was just an idea to get more web pages to have "cite" buttons
offering bibtex for non-traditional genres.

I guess what I'm looking for, and have now in simple form, is a
document wizard that just keeps track of all things I authored.
It creates a skeleton document and maintains bibtex for the
document and allows it to be inserted into the document
so anyone getting it can cite it easily ( say with exiftool to
get bibtex or fields). This would probably require some latex
macros to support just latex and a "db" that really could just
be a text file ( something in /var or even /etc that lists all
the publications in my self-library).

>
> --
> Little Girl
>
> There is no spoon.
>
> --
> ubuntu-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users

--

mike marchywka
306 charles cox
canton GA 30115
USA, Earth
[hidden email]
404-788-1216
ORCID: 0000-0001-9237-455X

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Re: Any suggestions for library administration software please?

Udvarias Ur
In reply to this post by David Fletcher-5
Dear Mr. Fletcher,

As I am also interested in Open Source library software I read this
thread with some interest.

I was disappointed with the responds and though, they neither helpful
nor answered your question, so I searched (once again) for a solution.

I found this

    Check Out Open Source Library and Collections Management Software -
    Linux.com
    <https://www.linux.com/news/check-out-open-source-library-and-collections-management-software/>

The article at above URL specifically states that Koha, "… developed for
public libraries in New Zealand …", is "… scalable to libraries of
different sizes, from small private collections to large,
geographically-remote library systems with multiple branch locations."

There are a number of other suggestions in the article. Koha, because it
is scalable, and the oldest (and therefore most mature) is likely the
best bet.

Hope this helps!

On 2019-11-16 09:53, David Fletcher wrote:

> My girlfriend is in Kathmandu at the moment. She's been trying but
> failing to get a laptop set up with database software for a new
> community library that's being built in an area to the north that's
> been ravaged by earthquakes. The building is up, books are being
> delivered, and she's carried a pack of 1000 serial numbered membership
> cards and other materials there.
>
> Apparently internet connections in the community are sketchy to say the
> least.
>
> I've been doing a little searching with Google and discovered projects
> such as Evergreen, BiblioteQ and Koha but can't locate anything in the
> repositories, which would be ideal.
>
> Please, does anybody know of any solutions?
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave
>
--
Udvarias Ur

This letter was generated and sent from Thunderbird 60.5.1 on Ubuntu Linux 16.04.6 LTS.

Cette lettre a été générée et envoyée à partir de Thunderbird 60.5.1 sur Ubuntu Linux 16.04.6 LTS.


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Re: Any suggestions for library administration software please?

Mike Marchywka
On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 05:17:15PM -0500, Udvarias Ur wrote:

> Dear Mr. Fletcher,
>
> As I am also interested in Open Source library software I read this thread
> with some interest.
>
> I was disappointed with the responds and though, they neither helpful nor
> answered your question, so I searched (once again) for a solution.
>
> I found this
>
>    Check Out Open Source Library and Collections Management Software -
>    Linux.com
>    <https://www.linux.com/news/check-out-open-source-library-and-collections-management-software/>
>
> The article at above URL specifically states that Koha, "… developed for
> public libraries in New Zealand …", is "… scalable to libraries of different
> sizes, from small private collections to large, geographically-remote
> library systems with multiple branch locations."
>
> There are a number of other suggestions in the article. Koha, because it is
> scalable, and the oldest (and therefore most mature) is likely the best bet.

Do you know offhand what is typical to present to patrons or researchers?
Say I want to use the facilities for research, I do a keyword
search on offerings can I download a list of bibtex entries for the hits
along with maybe library specific info ? My current crusade is to get
most web pages to provide bibtex for themselves similar to the way
"Share" features are ubiquitous. I guess it would be a good start
if libraries made digital citation information easy to manipulate,
never mind hardware stores :)

Are there other industries with the same requirements? It sounds like indexing
is a bit library-specific but loaning things out and keeping track of
patrons may be a common web-based task. The html asset management systems like
joomla I thought may be a good place to look for web interfaces for
patrons and staff.


>
> Hope this helps!
>
> On 2019-11-16 09:53, David Fletcher wrote:
> > My girlfriend is in Kathmandu at the moment. She's been trying but
> > failing to get a laptop set up with database software for a new
> > community library that's being built in an area to the north that's
> > been ravaged by earthquakes. The building is up, books are being
> > delivered, and she's carried a pack of 1000 serial numbered membership
> > cards and other materials there.
> >
> > Apparently internet connections in the community are sketchy to say the
> > least.
> >
> > I've been doing a little searching with Google and discovered projects
> > such as Evergreen, BiblioteQ and Koha but can't locate anything in the
> > repositories, which would be ideal.
> >
> > Please, does anybody know of any solutions?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Dave
> >
> --
> Udvarias Ur
>
> This letter was generated and sent from Thunderbird 60.5.1 on Ubuntu Linux 16.04.6 LTS.
>
> Cette lettre a été générée et envoyée à partir de Thunderbird 60.5.1 sur Ubuntu Linux 16.04.6 LTS.
>
>
> --
> ubuntu-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users

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[hidden email]
404-788-1216
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Re: Any suggestions for library administration software please?

Little Girl
In reply to this post by Mike Marchywka
Hey there,

Mike Marchywka wrote:

>Little Girl wrote:
>>
>> https://alternativeto.net/browse/search?q=citation
>>
>> Each result displays a brief description, screenshots and/or a
>> video, lists whether it's free or commercial, lists the platforms
>> it runs on, and lists its alternatives. If you happen to find one
>> that's close, but not quite right, its alternatives will be listed
>> just beneath it, giving you one huge rabbit hole to climb into and
>> wade around in. Some of the programs aren't in the Ubuntu package
>> manager, so you'll have to search the package manager for any that
>> seem interesting.  
>
>Thanks, checking the first page there seem to be several biblio
>things that generate specific bib formats rather than just getting
>say bibtex. My scripts aren't yet perfect, I'm moving to c++ now
>that I understand the logic, but I can now get bibtex and hence
>flexibly bibliographies from most site that have the information
>available. The BoMTeX thing was just an idea to get more web pages
>to have "cite" buttons offering bibtex for non-traditional genres.

Good, and there are many more pages to look through on that site if
you decide to go "shopping" for something different.

>I guess what I'm looking for, and have now in simple form, is a
>document wizard that just keeps track of all things I authored.
>It creates a skeleton document and maintains bibtex for the
>document and allows it to be inserted into the document
>so anyone getting it can cite it easily ( say with exiftool to
>get bibtex or fields). This would probably require some latex
>macros to support just latex and a "db" that really could just
>be a text file ( something in /var or even /etc that lists all
>the publications in my self-library).

This is all out of my league. I'm immersed in the writing world, but
not to the same extent that you are (I do my citations manually). I'm
glad you've got it working for now. Hopefully some of those other
resources will also be of some value. You might also bump into some
of the developers of those other programs and strike up a
conversation to get some interest in designing such a program if none
currently exists.

--
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Re: Any suggestions for library administration software please?

Little Girl
In reply to this post by Mike Marchywka
Hey there,

Mike Marchywka wrote:

>My current crusade is to get most web pages to provide bibtex for
>themselves similar to the way "Share" features are ubiquitous.

This might be a temporary solution. It asks for a URL and generates a
citation from it:

https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/research_and_citation/mla_style/mla_formatting_and_style_guide/mla_works_cited_electronic_sources.html

Note that the link I gave is for the MLA style. It offers other
styles as well.

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Re: Any suggestions for library administration software please?

Mike Marchywka
On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 09:51:33AM -0500, Little Girl wrote:

> Hey there,
>
> Mike Marchywka wrote:
>
> >My current crusade is to get most web pages to provide bibtex for
> >themselves similar to the way "Share" features are ubiquitous.
>
> This might be a temporary solution. It asks for a URL and generates a
> citation from it:
>
> https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/research_and_citation/mla_style/mla_formatting_and_style_guide/mla_works_cited_electronic_sources.html
>
I tried that on a web page without the info and it just hung. On a scientific page, it did produce the result
but that format-specific stuff is a problem- it needs to return key-value pairs and let you do the formatting.
For example, this is the result of a recent script run. I put "srcurl" on the clipboard, ran the script
and it identified a way to get the bibtex ( or key-value pairs that specify the work ). Sometimes
these are publisher site specific, other times available from a DOI and maybe others from html
metadata or less likely pdf exif data. Some people on texhax maillist suggested that zotero etc
can make a better choice when there are multiple source but the trick is to scrape the
data when there is nothing explicity. Ideally every page, at least for news sites, would have bibtex
cite buttons but for more commercial interest, see my archived posts on texhax, I noted that a bibliography
could also be a bill-of-materials with one or two click buying for recipes or DIY projects
or whatever.  


% med2bib comment: guessplos
% date  Mon Nov 18 07:05:56 EST 2019
% srcurl:  https://journals.plos.org/plosntds/article?id=10.1371/journal.pntd.0004310
% citeurl:  https://journals.plos.org/plosntds/article/citation/bibtex?id=10.1371/journal.pntd.0004310

@article{10.1371/journal.pntd.0004310,
 author = {Sun, Ran AND Zhao, Xi AND Wang, Zixia AND Yang, Jing AND Zhao, Limei AND Zhan, Bin AND Zhu, Xinping},
 journal = {PLOS Neglected Tropical Diseases},
 publisher = {Public Library of Science},
 title = {Trichinella spiralis Paramyosin Binds Human Complement C1q and Inhibits Classical Complement Activation},
 year = {2016},
 month = {12},
 volume = {9},
 url = {https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pntd.0004310},
 pages = {1-14},
 abstract = {Author Summary Trichinellosis is one of the most important food-borne parasitic zoonoses worldwide. The key factor for Trichinella spiralis to survive in its host is evading from the attacks by the immune defense system. Our previous study revealed that paramyosin from Trichinella spiralis (Ts-Pmy) played a role in evading host immune attacks by binding to human complement C8 and C9. Here, we demonstrated that Ts-Pmy inhibited classical complement activation by binding to human complement C1q. As a result, classical complement pathway-mediated hemolysis was inhibited in the presence of Ts-Pmy. Additionally, Ts-Pmy inhibited C1q binding to THP-1-derived macrophages and C1q-induced macrophages migration. These results suggest that Trichinella spiralis paramyosin is a potential immunomodulator involved in the evasion of the host complement attack by binding to C1q in addition to C8/C9, and therefore is a potent vaccine target against trichinellosis.},
 number = {12},
 doi = {10.1371/journal.pntd.0004310}
}


> Note that the link I gave is for the MLA style. It offers other
> styles as well.
>
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Re: Any suggestions for library administration software please?

Little Girl
Hey there,

Mike Marchywka wrote:
>Little Girl wrote:
>>
>> This might be a temporary solution. It asks for a URL and
>> generates a citation from it:
>>
>> https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/research_and_citation/mla_style/mla_formatting_and_style_guide/mla_works_cited_electronic_sources.html
>>  
>I tried that on a web page without the info and it just hung.

Interesting.

>On a scientific page, it did produce the result but that
>format-specific stuff is a problem- it needs to return key-value
>pairs and let you do the formatting.

Ah, okay. I don't know of anything that can do that off-hand. It
sounds to me that this would involve an HTML standard that website
administrators would have to adhere to so that you could reliably
identify and grab the correct information from each page.

The W3C standard requires a title element within the head element of a
web page, which is great for citations and would be easy enough to
identify, grab, and parse, but there's no requirement for paragraph
numbering elements, and without those, you'd have to get down to a
manual level in order to grab at least some types of citations. Even
if such a thing existed, lots of website administrators ignore the
standards and write invalid code, in which case you might not even
be able to fetch the title from the page source, let alone anything
else.

>For example, this is the result of a recent script run. I put
>"srcurl" on the clipboard, ran the script and it identified a way to
>get the bibtex ( or key-value pairs that specify the work ).
>Sometimes these are publisher site specific, other times available
>from a DOI and maybe others from html metadata or less likely pdf
>exif data. Some people on texhax maillist suggested that zotero etc
>can make a better choice when there are multiple source but the
>trick is to scrape the data when there is nothing explicity. Ideally
>every page, at least for news sites, would have bibtex cite buttons
>but for more commercial interest, see my archived posts on texhax, I
>noted that a bibliography could also be a bill-of-materials with one
>or two click buying for recipes or DIY projects or whatever.  

It sounds to me like you've got it figured out for sites that comply
with some sort of standard, whether that's presented as bibtex, DOI,
or some other form. I'm not sure what you can do about the sites that
don't provide something like that other than manually grabbing
whatever data is available. I suppose you could analyze the types of
text you'd be likely to see near such information and try to do a
sloppy grab of likely information that's flagged to let you know that
it needs to be cleaned up.

By the way, you got me all fired up about citations again, so I went
poking around last night and found MyBib. It's free and seems like it
will come in really handy for someone like me since I only need
citations in small quantities.

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Re: Any suggestions for library administration software please?

Mike Marchywka
On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 01:01:02PM -0500, Little Girl wrote:

> Hey there,
>
> Mike Marchywka wrote:
> >Little Girl wrote:
> >>
> >> This might be a temporary solution. It asks for a URL and
> >> generates a citation from it:
> >>
> >> https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/research_and_citation/mla_style/mla_formatting_and_style_guide/mla_works_cited_electronic_sources.html
> >>  
> >I tried that on a web page without the info and it just hung.
>
> Interesting.
>
> >On a scientific page, it did produce the result but that
> >format-specific stuff is a problem- it needs to return key-value
> >pairs and let you do the formatting.
>
> Ah, okay. I don't know of anything that can do that off-hand. It
> sounds to me that this would involve an HTML standard that website
> administrators would have to adhere to so that you could reliably
> identify and grab the correct information from each page.

Yeah, I think that is doomed. But, if you can find my posts on texhax@tug
archives I think I included some notes on "BoMTeX" or adaptation
to bibtex to make it more commercial but also useful for most
web page types. I'm trying to move my bibtex script into c++
for the logic ( still invoking bash from c++ for all the real work).

One related idea though that came up in the latex discussion was
the idea of making clipboards that had some notion of "where the heck
the stuff came from." So, when you paste to the clipboard someone has
source material to keep track of how to cite it.  No idea how you
make that work but maybe for the next Ubuntu :)


>
> The W3C standard requires a title element within the head element of a
> web page, which is great for citations and would be easy enough to
> identify, grab, and parse, but there's no requirement for paragraph
> numbering elements, and without those, you'd have to get down to a
> manual level in order to grab at least some types of citations. Even
> if such a thing existed, lots of website administrators ignore the
> standards and write invalid code, in which case you might not even
> be able to fetch the title from the page source, let alone anything
> else.
>
> >For example, this is the result of a recent script run. I put
> >"srcurl" on the clipboard, ran the script and it identified a way to
> >get the bibtex ( or key-value pairs that specify the work ).
> >Sometimes these are publisher site specific, other times available
> >from a DOI and maybe others from html metadata or less likely pdf
> >exif data. Some people on texhax maillist suggested that zotero etc
> >can make a better choice when there are multiple source but the
> >trick is to scrape the data when there is nothing explicity. Ideally
> >every page, at least for news sites, would have bibtex cite buttons
> >but for more commercial interest, see my archived posts on texhax, I
> >noted that a bibliography could also be a bill-of-materials with one
> >or two click buying for recipes or DIY projects or whatever.  
>
> It sounds to me like you've got it figured out for sites that comply
> with some sort of standard, whether that's presented as bibtex, DOI,
> or some other form. I'm not sure what you can do about the sites that
> don't provide something like that other than manually grabbing
> whatever data is available. I suppose you could analyze the types of
> text you'd be likely to see near such information and try to do a
> sloppy grab of likely information that's flagged to let you know that
> it needs to be cleaned up.
>
> By the way, you got me all fired up about citations again, so I went
> poking around last night and found MyBib. It's free and seems like it
> will come in really handy for someone like me since I only need
> citations in small quantities.
>
> --
> Little Girl
>
> There is no spoon.
>
> --
> ubuntu-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users

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[hidden email]
404-788-1216
ORCID: 0000-0001-9237-455X

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Re: Any suggestions for library administration software please?

Little Girl
Hey there,

Mike Marchywka wrote:
>Little Girl wrote:
>> Mike Marchywka wrote:  

>> >On a scientific page, it did produce the result but that
>> >format-specific stuff is a problem- it needs to return key-value
>> >pairs and let you do the formatting.  
 
>> Ah, okay. I don't know of anything that can do that off-hand. It
>> sounds to me that this would involve an HTML standard that website
>> administrators would have to adhere to so that you could reliably
>> identify and grab the correct information from each page.  

>Yeah, I think that is doomed. But, if you can find my posts on
>texhax@tug archives I think I included some notes on "BoMTeX" or
>adaptation to bibtex to make it more commercial but also useful for
>most web page types. I'm trying to move my bibtex script into c++
>for the logic ( still invoking bash from c++ for all the real work).

Okay, I found those. I get the impression, from what you're trying to
accomplish, that you're probably going to be stuck taking a teaspoon
to an ocean and will have to take it one site or one business or one
website administrator at a time. A possibility would be to contact
the W3C and make a wish for some new elements that website
administrators can use to make their pages citable in a consistent
way. I realize you can create any element you like nowadays (and I
love that dearly), but this would be about creating a standard that
people would be made aware of and encouraged to adhere to.

>One related idea though that came up in the latex discussion was
>the idea of making clipboards that had some notion of "where the heck
>the stuff came from." So, when you paste to the clipboard someone
>has source material to keep track of how to cite it.  No idea how you
>make that work but maybe for the next Ubuntu :)

Now that's an interesting idea. As far as I can see, no one has
invented such a thing yet. You would probably need to contact each
program's development team individually to see if they'd like to take
their code in that direction.

I can, however, imagine that it could be problematic. If you cite
something in file A in folder X and the clipboard program remembers
the source file and its location, that's fine as long as the source
file doesn't move and/or get renamed. If it gets renamed later, all
is lost unless you can grep likely locations for some of its
contents. If it gets moved, you might be able to find it by doing a
search for its file name. The clipboard program could be designed to
monitor the file system and keep an eye on its sources, updating
them when changes are made, but that would be resource-intensive and
might be considered an unwelcome intrusion by the user.

This is an interesting predicament all the way around.

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Re: Any suggestions for library administration software please?

Bret Busby-2
On 21/11/2019, Little Girl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hey there,
>
> Mike Marchywka wrote:
>>Little Girl wrote:
>>> Mike Marchywka wrote:
>
>>> >On a scientific page, it did produce the result but that
>>> >format-specific stuff is a problem- it needs to return key-value
>>> >pairs and let you do the formatting.
>
>>> Ah, okay. I don't know of anything that can do that off-hand. It
>>> sounds to me that this would involve an HTML standard that website
>>> administrators would have to adhere to so that you could reliably
>>> identify and grab the correct information from each page.
>
>>Yeah, I think that is doomed. But, if you can find my posts on
>>texhax@tug archives I think I included some notes on "BoMTeX" or
>>adaptation to bibtex to make it more commercial but also useful for
>>most web page types. I'm trying to move my bibtex script into c++
>>for the logic ( still invoking bash from c++ for all the real work).
>
> Okay, I found those. I get the impression, from what you're trying to
> accomplish, that you're probably going to be stuck taking a teaspoon
> to an ocean and will have to take it one site or one business or one
> website administrator at a time. A possibility would be to contact
> the W3C and make a wish for some new elements that website
> administrators can use to make their pages citable in a consistent
> way. I realize you can create any element you like nowadays (and I
> love that dearly), but this would be about creating a standard that
> people would be made aware of and encouraged to adhere to.
>
>>One related idea though that came up in the latex discussion was
>>the idea of making clipboards that had some notion of "where the heck
>>the stuff came from." So, when you paste to the clipboard someone
>>has source material to keep track of how to cite it.  No idea how you
>>make that work but maybe for the next Ubuntu :)
>
> Now that's an interesting idea. As far as I can see, no one has
> invented such a thing yet. You would probably need to contact each
> program's development team individually to see if they'd like to take
> their code in that direction.
>
> I can, however, imagine that it could be problematic. If you cite
> something in file A in folder X and the clipboard program remembers
> the source file and its location, that's fine as long as the source
> file doesn't move and/or get renamed. If it gets renamed later, all
> is lost unless you can grep likely locations for some of its
> contents. If it gets moved, you might be able to find it by doing a
> search for its file name. The clipboard program could be designed to
> monitor the file system and keep an eye on its sources, updating
> them when changes are made, but that would be resource-intensive and
> might be considered an unwelcome intrusion by the user.
>
> This is an interesting predicament all the way around.
>
> --
> Little Girl
>
> There is no spoon.
>
> --
> ubuntu-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
>

Methinks this has digressed somewhat, from the thread topic...

I think, perhaps, a new topic should have been implemented, at the
start of the digression.

:)


--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992

....................................................

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Re: Any suggestions for library administration software please?

David Fletcher-5
In reply to this post by David Fletcher-5
Thanks everybody for all the comments.

I was hoping that there might be something in the repository with a non
obvious name, of a standalone nature and easy to administer, backup and
restore if necessary. Local computer expertise is rare!

No suitable solutions so far. The laptop is now in the UK to be handed
over to another volunteer.

Regards to all

Dave

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