Censorship and old less

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Censorship and old less

hatemailer4u
A few days ago i wanted to express my opinion on delaying fixes to
critical system components. Looks like the censor disagreed with me.
Anyway, here it goes again, this time as a member of this list:

> Alright,
>
> I had a simple use case. Make less quit when the output fits on my
> screen. There's a flag for that (--quit-if-one-screen (no you judging
> anons, i am not gonna use the short flags because i don't remember
> them.... just like you wouldn't use one letter function names or
> parameter names unless you were a complete fuckhead (or a C creatin),
> i won't use one letter flag names)). So i used it and when the text
> was short, it didn't show anything because less clears the screen on
> exit. Alright, that's pretty fucked up stupidity right there (like...
> do you even test?). But ok, the devs knew they weren't exactly
> geniuses and there's a flag for that too (--no-init (see how beautiful
> it is when it's clear what it does from the name? you can read these
> insults without looking at the manpage to understand why i am
> insulting you)). It doesn't sound like exactly what i want but hey,
> --no-init or --no-deinit, close enough, right? So i use that and
> because it's 2018 i am used to scrolling with the mouse wheel. I do it
> without thinking about it. Terminals are retarded enough by using
> CTRL+C for something else but you fuckers are not taking scrolling
> away from me. But --no-init breaks scrolling with mouse wheel. Because
> idk why, i guess just because fuck me. Alright, so i rant on IRC
> knowing i can't possibly be the only one who wants sane behavior from
> less. And someone helpfully points out --quit-if-one-screen works for
> him. So... he has a newer less. By 2 fucking years. At this point it's
> clear the non-genius who wrote less is not getting hatemail but you
> fuckers are. Because he fixes hit shit. Why the fuck does debian or
> ubuntu or whoever retarded (yes, that word fits nicely here) piece of
> shit consider it acceptable to ship 2 years old software. I update
> every fucking weak and this is what i get? Why do i have to install
> nix when debian thinks they have a perfectly good PM? Because those
> dipshits don't. It can't handle multiple versions at the same time but
> they'd never run into that because having multiple versions would
> imply they actually update packages at some point. Fucktards.
>
> Alright, despite sounding like an asshole, i am a pretty smart guy
> (more than debian packagers for sure). I can be wrong. If there's a
> sane reason for this stupidity, defend yourself. Yes, you can blame
> others and i will then hatemail those fuckheads if shipping 2 year old
> software is necessary to keep shit working but that would be pretty
> fucked up, right? Surely it doesn't take 2 years to fix critical bugs.
>
> Umm, to be clear, this is pointed at idiots who somehow believe they
> gain "stability" by ignoring newer versions. Not the users or the
> mailinglist, i just picked this one because it had at least some
> activity. And seriously, what the fuck do you gain? Last year you had
> broken cloc or whatever it was for half a year. And I couldn't update
> because of the same reason. The bug was fixed the next week and you
> dickheads made me wait for half a fucking year. I didn't like it, i
> don't like you... in fact, i fucking hate you. You about you lick my
> asshole right after i take a shit and see how you like that???

Yes I read your CoC(k) and that this is about being human or whatever.
For me being human is also expressing me feelings unfiltered.

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Re: Censorship and old less

Jeff Lane-2
On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:40 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
Long Rambling invective laden diatribe snipped

> Yes I read your CoC(k) and that this is about being human or whatever.
> For me being human is also expressing me feelings unfiltered.

Perhaps the reason your opinions are not treated with the respect you
feel they deserve is because your diatribe is laden with generic
insults hurled at anyone who cares to ready your drivel.  You may well
have some valid points, I couldn't say, because the only thing that
stands out is your attitude towards others.  Perhaps if you treated
the readers of this list with the same respect you seem to demand,
you'd be taken more seriously?

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Re: Censorship and old less

Dave Stevens
In reply to this post by hatemailer4u
On Wed, 07 Nov 2018 21:38:19 +0100
[hidden email] wrote:

> despite sounding like an asshole

+1

--
In modern fantasy (literary or governmental), killing people is the
usual solution to the so-called war between good and evil. My books are
not conceived in terms of such a war, and offer no simple answers to
simplistic questions.

----- Ursula Le Guin

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Re: Censorship and old less

Karl Auer
In reply to this post by Jeff Lane-2
On Wed, 2018-11-07 at 16:17 -0500, J wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:40 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Long Rambling invective laden diatribe snipped
>
> Perhaps if you treated the readers of this list with the same respect
> you seem to demand, you'd be taken more seriously?

Indeed. This is my standard response to such muppets:

https://biplane.com.au/blog/?p=375

It offends me to give the little nasty what he wants, so hopefully this
isn't good enough for him:

Put this in a script or alias and call it e.g. lless:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

#!/bin/bash

if [ -z "$1 ] ; then
   echo "No file to display."
   exit 0
fi

L=`tput lines`
W=`tput cols`
F=`wc -l < "$1"`
LL=`wc -L < "$1"`

# If the longest line is longer than the
# terminal width, use ordinary less
if (( $LL > $W )) ; then
      less "$1"
else
   # Otherwise, if the whole thing will fit
   # on the terminal, exit after display
   if (( $L < $F )) ; then
      less "$1"
   else
      less -F -X "$1"
   fi
fi

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That will output all lines and exit without clearing the screen if the
number of lines in the first and only argument is less than the number
of lines in the terminal window AND the longest line will fit in the
terminal width. Written without any testing, so use with care!

If you don't care about lack of mousewheel scrolling, just use "less -F
-X file.txt"

Or update to the latest less :-)

Regards, K.

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http://twitter.com/kauer389

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Re: Censorship and old less

Rashkae-2
On 2018-11-07 06:41 PM, Karl Auer wrote:

> On Wed, 2018-11-07 at 16:17 -0500, J wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:40 PM <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Long Rambling invective laden diatribe snipped
>>
>> Perhaps if you treated the readers of this list with the same respect
>> you seem to demand, you'd be taken more seriously?
>
> Indeed. This is my standard response to such muppets:
>
> https://biplane.com.au/blog/?p=375
>


Thank you for that.  Sometimes, far too often, *I* am the one making
complaints.. and in the process of venting my frustrations, I will from
time to time insult the devs in the process.  That being said, and
admitting my own foibles, I fully stand behind this sentiment.



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Re: Censorship and old less

MR ZenWiz
In reply to this post by Karl Auer
On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:56 PM Karl Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:
:
> Indeed. This is my standard response to such muppets:
>
> https://biplane.com.au/blog/?p=375
>
Bravo and very well said, Karl.  My hat's off to you.

+10!

Mark Richter
Senior Staff Engineer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/markrichter1
FSF Member #12694 http://www.fsf.org
Registered Linux User #472807 http://counter.li.org/

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Re: Censorship and old less

Gene Heskett-2
On Thursday 08 November 2018 00:17:45 MR ZenWiz wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:56 PM Karl Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Indeed. This is my standard response to such muppets:
> >
> > https://biplane.com.au/blog/?p=375
>
> Bravo and very well said, Karl.  My hat's off to you.
>
> +10!
>
> Mark Richter
> Senior Staff Engineer
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/markrichter1
> FSF Member #12694 http://www.fsf.org
> Registered Linux User #472807 http://counter.li.org/

And heres another +10.  Well said indeed.

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--
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Re: Censorship and old less

Jared Norris
Good morning/afternoon/evening all,

Your friendly moderation team representative here.

I think we can all agree this thread is probably not on topic or using suitable language and appropriate action was taken at the time. To that end if we can all please stop this thread and move on to more relevant topics that would be great.

As always, the moderation team can be reached at [hidden email] if you want to discuss any issues.

Regards,

Jared Norris

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Re: Censorship and old less

Ken D'Ambrosio
In reply to this post by Karl Auer
On 2018-11-07 18:41, Karl Auer wrote:

> https://biplane.com.au/blog/?p=375

Heh.  Your and my starts with Linux seem to parallel each other rather
nicely -- nothing beat downloading those zillions of Slackware floppies
one at at time.  However, I'm a-gonna put my nitpick hat on: there was
no 6.04 Ubuntu.  That was the time that Shuttleworth delayed release by
two months for bug squashing; Dapper Drake was 6.06, and my first
release as well.

$.02,

-Ken

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Re: Censorship and old less

Karl Auer
On Thu, 2018-11-08 at 08:09 -0500, Ken D'Ambrosio wrote:
> Heh.  Your and my starts with Linux seem to parallel each other
> rather nicely -- nothing beat downloading those zillions of Slackware
> floppies one at at time.  However, I'm a-gonna put my nitpick hat on:
> there was no 6.04 Ubuntu.  That was the time that Shuttleworth
> delayed release by two months for bug squashing; Dapper Drake was
> 6.06, and my first release as well.

You inspired me to visit the Vault and drag out the first Ubuntu disks
I ever installed from. Two *real* Ubuntu CDs, obtained from Canonical
and given to me by the guy who first introduced me to Ubuntu. It turns
out my memory was even more wrong than we thought - they are marked
"Version 5.10 for your PC".

I distinctly recall Dapper Drake though (well the name, anyway), so I'm
guessing it was my first upgrade.

Regards, K.

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http://twitter.com/kauer389

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Re: Censorship and old less

Liam Proven
On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 at 14:47, Karl Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I distinctly recall Dapper Drake though (well the name, anyway), so I'm
> guessing it was my first upgrade.

Warty Warthog FTW.

After a while of watching www.nonameyet.com for announcements... Which
it seems Canonical have now sold...

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Re: Censorship and old less

Peter Goggin-2
In reply to this post by Gene Heskett-2
Not often I bother to respond to these types of e-mail. People do not
seem to realise just how much they have and need to be grateful for.  I
personally thank all the developers of the various flavor of linux. I
have been using Ubuntu for many years, and while each new version often
presents problems because of changes to the desk top the system is still
much superior to the various commercial offerings.  I should perhaps
mention that I wrote my first computer program in 1958 and have used
computers continually over the last 60 years. I have worked with a range
of operating systems, but since I used the Red Hat version in the late
1980s I have move all of my computers from windows to linux and apart
from one or two programs  ( in the genealogy field) I do not use
windows. I run the genealogy programs using VirtualBox and an old copy
of XP.


Regards


Peter Goggin

On 8/11/18 4:47 pm, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Thursday 08 November 2018 00:17:45 MR ZenWiz wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:56 PM Karl Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Indeed. This is my standard response to such muppets:
>>>
>>> https://biplane.com.au/blog/?p=375
>> Bravo and very well said, Karl.  My hat's off to you.
>>
>> +10!
>>
>> Mark Richter
>> Senior Staff Engineer
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/markrichter1
>> FSF Member #12694 http://www.fsf.org
>> Registered Linux User #472807 http://counter.li.org/
> And heres another +10.  Well said indeed.
>

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Re: Censorship and old less

Tony Arnold-3
Peter,

I guess you first started coding in Fortran, if it was in 1958? Or maybe something else? Just curious!

Have you looked at Gramps on Linux for your Genealogy work? I'd be interested in your views on it if you have.

Regards,
Tony.

On Fri, 2018-11-09 at 10:45 +1100, Peter wrote:
Not often I bother to respond to these types of e-mail. People do not 
seem to realise just how much they have and need to be grateful for.  I 
personally thank all the developers of the various flavor of linux. I 
have been using Ubuntu for many years, and while each new version often 
presents problems because of changes to the desk top the system is still 
much superior to the various commercial offerings.  I should perhaps 
mention that I wrote my first computer program in 1958 and have used 
computers continually over the last 60 years. I have worked with a range 
of operating systems, but since I used the Red Hat version in the late 
1980s I have move all of my computers from windows to linux and apart 
from one or two programs  ( in the genealogy field) I do not use 
windows. I run the genealogy programs using VirtualBox and an old copy 
of XP.


Regards


Peter Goggin

On 8/11/18 4:47 pm, Gene Heskett wrote:
On Thursday 08 November 2018 00:17:45 MR ZenWiz wrote:

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:56 PM Karl Auer <
[hidden email]
> wrote:
Indeed. This is my standard response to such muppets:

https://biplane.com.au/blog/?p=375

Bravo and very well said, Karl.  My hat's off to you.

+10!

Mark Richter
Senior Staff Engineer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/markrichter1

FSF Member #12694 
http://www.fsf.org

Registered Linux User #472807 
http://counter.li.org/

And heres another +10.  Well said indeed.


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Re: Censorship and old less

Peter Goggin-2

First programs were written in autocode for a computer using valves with an average up time of two hours, then the establishment purchased an IBM mainframe called Stretch which was the only true scientific computer made by IBM. We could then use Fortran. The later IBM mainframes were not really intended for scientific use and could no be used to invert matrices foe curve fitting because of the limited range of numerical precision.

I started using DEC mini computers in 1963 or 1964 and micro computers in 1974  or 1975.  I used other high level languages like cobol and pascal, started working with relational data bases in 1983 after I came to Australia.  I retired in 2001.

Regards


Peter Goggin

On 9/11/18 8:28 pm, Tony Arnold wrote:
Peter,

I guess you first started coding in Fortran, if it was in 1958? Or maybe something else? Just curious!

Have you looked at Gramps on Linux for your Genealogy work? I'd be interested in your views on it if you have.

Regards,
Tony.

On Fri, 2018-11-09 at 10:45 +1100, Peter wrote:
Not often I bother to respond to these types of e-mail. People do not 
seem to realise just how much they have and need to be grateful for.  I 
personally thank all the developers of the various flavor of linux. I 
have been using Ubuntu for many years, and while each new version often 
presents problems because of changes to the desk top the system is still 
much superior to the various commercial offerings.  I should perhaps 
mention that I wrote my first computer program in 1958 and have used 
computers continually over the last 60 years. I have worked with a range 
of operating systems, but since I used the Red Hat version in the late 
1980s I have move all of my computers from windows to linux and apart 
from one or two programs  ( in the genealogy field) I do not use 
windows. I run the genealogy programs using VirtualBox and an old copy 
of XP.

        

        
Regards

        

        
Peter Goggin

        
On 8/11/18 4:47 pm, Gene Heskett wrote:
On Thursday 08 November 2018 00:17:45 MR ZenWiz wrote:

          
On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:56 PM Karl Auer <
[hidden email]
> wrote:
Indeed. This is my standard response to such muppets:

              
                
https://biplane.com.au/blog/?p=375

            
Bravo and very well said, Karl.  My hat's off to you.

            
+10!

            
Mark Richter
Senior Staff Engineer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/markrichter1

            
FSF Member #12694 
http://www.fsf.org

            
Registered Linux User #472807 
http://counter.li.org/

          
And heres another +10.  Well said indeed.

        

      
-- 
Tony Arnold MBCS, CITP | Senior IT Security Analyst | Directorate of IT Services | G64, Kilburn Building | The University of Manchester | Manchester M13 9PL | T: +44 161 275 6093 | M: +44 773 330 0039


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Re: Censorship and old less

Peter Flynn
In reply to this post by Tony Arnold-3
On 09/11/2018 09:28, Tony Arnold wrote:
> Have you looked at Gramps on Linux for your Genealogy work? I'd be
> interested in your views on it if you have.

[Different Peter here]

I'm using it quite a lot now. It's excellent, although there are a few
usability glitches which make certain operations extraordinarily hard to
find.

P

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Re: Censorship and old less

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Peter Goggin-2
On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 at 10:54, Peter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> First programs were written in autocode for a computer using valves with an average up time of two hours, then the establishment purchased an IBM mainframe called Stretch which was the only true scientific computer made by IBM.

Ooh, an IBM 7030! Nice!

The first IBM supercomputer, the first IBM transistor computer, and
the first computer to use instruction pipelining, prefetch,
speculative execution, branch prediction and recovery, memory
interleaving, multiprogramming, memory protection -- all standard
techniques in PC processors since the Pentium and almost all computers
today.

Roughly an order of magnitude quicker than any other computer in its
day, and roughly an order of magnitude more RAM.

Even so, they only sold 9, I believe, and it was considered a failure.
History sort of proved them wrong there.

https://www.cnet.com/news/fifty-years-later-ibms-inventors-celebrate-the-stretch/

http://www.drdobbs.com/its-not-easy-being-green-or-red-the-ibm/184404433

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Re: Censorship and old less

Peter Goggin-2
There were many things that IBM came out with but dropped. One of the
best op systems for micros was OS/2, a true multiusers system. I used it
for a few years and it was far superior to the MS offerings at the tie,
but IBM dropped it.  In the same misguided way they chose MSDos rather
than CP/M for there micro computers.

Regards

Peter Goggin

On 9/11/18 11:23 pm, Liam Proven wrote:

> On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 at 10:54, Peter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> First programs were written in autocode for a computer using valves with an average up time of two hours, then the establishment purchased an IBM mainframe called Stretch which was the only true scientific computer made by IBM.
> Ooh, an IBM 7030! Nice!
>
> The first IBM supercomputer, the first IBM transistor computer, and
> the first computer to use instruction pipelining, prefetch,
> speculative execution, branch prediction and recovery, memory
> interleaving, multiprogramming, memory protection -- all standard
> techniques in PC processors since the Pentium and almost all computers
> today.
>
> Roughly an order of magnitude quicker than any other computer in its
> day, and roughly an order of magnitude more RAM.
>
> Even so, they only sold 9, I believe, and it was considered a failure.
> History sort of proved them wrong there.
>
> https://www.cnet.com/news/fifty-years-later-ibms-inventors-celebrate-the-stretch/
>
> http://www.drdobbs.com/its-not-easy-being-green-or-red-the-ibm/184404433
>

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Re: Censorship and old less

Joel Rees
In reply to this post by Liam Proven


2018年11月9日(金) 21:25、Liam Proven さん([hidden email])のメッセージ:
On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 at 10:54, Peter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> First programs were written in autocode for a computer using valves with an average up time of two hours, then the establishment purchased an IBM mainframe called Stretch which was the only true scientific computer made by IBM.

Ooh, an IBM 7030! Nice!

The first IBM supercomputer, the first IBM transistor computer, and
the first computer to use instruction pipelining, prefetch,
speculative execution, branch prediction and recovery, memory
interleaving, multiprogramming, memory protection -- all standard
techniques in PC processors since the Pentium and almost all computers
today.

Roughly an order of magnitude quicker than any other computer in its
day, and roughly an order of magnitude more RAM.

Even so, they only sold 9, I believe, and it was considered a failure.
History sort of proved them wrong there.

https://www.cnet.com/news/fifty-years-later-ibms-inventors-celebrate-the-stretch/

http://www.drdobbs.com/its-not-easy-being-green-or-red-the-ibm/184404433

Heh. Channeling on Don Mclean's Vincent (aka Starry, Starry Night).

Things that work right just aren't meant for this world. 

If you want it to succeed in the market, you have to get it out there before you have it working right.


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Re: Censorship and old less

ubuntu-users mailing list
On Sun, 11 Nov 2018 08:47:23 +0900, Joel Rees wrote:

>> On Fri, 9 Nov 2018 at 10:54, Peter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > First programs were written in autocode for a computer using valves with
>> an average up time of two hours, then the establishment purchased an IBM
>> mainframe called Stretch which was the only true scientific computer made
>> by IBM.
>>
>> Ooh, an IBM 7030! Nice!
>>
>> The first IBM supercomputer, the first IBM transistor computer, and
>> the first computer to use instruction pipelining, prefetch,
>> speculative execution, branch prediction and recovery, memory
>> interleaving, multiprogramming, memory protection -- all standard
>> techniques in PC processors since the Pentium and almost all computers
>> today.
>>
>> Roughly an order of magnitude quicker than any other computer in its
>> day, and roughly an order of magnitude more RAM.
>>
>> Even so, they only sold 9, I believe, and it was considered a failure.
>> History sort of proved them wrong there.
>>
>> https://www.cnet.com/news/fifty-years-later-ibms-inventors-celebrate-the-stretch/
>>
>> http://www.drdobbs.com/its-not-easy-being-green-or-red-the-ibm/184404433
>
> Heh. Channeling on Don Mclean's Vincent (aka Starry, Starry Night).
>
> Things that work right just aren't meant for this world.
>
> If you want it to succeed in the market, you have to get it out there
> before you have it working right.

Thus the success of the IBM SYS/360

Jonesy
First [SYSTEM RESET] [START] [START] 1966


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Re: Censorship and old less

Colin Law
To bring this back somewhat to the topic, is there a good reason why
an old version of less is shipped (even with 18.10).

Colin

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