Change of scope and target market for i386

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Change of scope and target market for i386

Dimitri John Ledkov
######
NB! this is a mailing list for developers, and this is a _proposal_
that I want to discuss with the *buntu developers. There is no need to
OMG this, especially since this is a recurring discussion every single
development cycle for many years now...
######


Hello,

Currently Ubuntu provides many installation medias:

   * Ubuntu Core snappy architecture images

   * Cloud images

   * Container images

   * Server subiquity img/iso

   * Server classic img/iso

   * Desktop live

   * Netinst

   * Board-specific pre-installed builds

i386 architecture is changing.

It is no longer the default, nor most widely used architecture on the
traditional form factors: desktop, laptop, rack servers.

But i386 is becoming more of a purpose built architecture, similar to
how in the past "embedded" devices label was applied. Today, I would
call it an IoT; single purpose device; and a cloud/container guest
architecture.

Ubuntu website download pages have stopped advertising traditional
i386 images for either desktop, server, or cloud, without any
significant backslash and without any noticeable drops in the download
rates.

Therefore I would like to propose the following change of scope for
the i386 architecture.

= Continue to provide for i386 =

   * The Ubuntu archive with security updates

   * Ubuntu Core snappy architecture images

   * Cloud images

   * Container images

   * Server subiquity img/iso

   * netinst

= Discontinue to provide for i386 =

   * Server classic img/iso

   * Desktop live

= Rationale for change =

The above images and scope for i386 will:

   * Expand and grow deployments in the IoT devices sector

   * continue to support the declining i386 classic desktop/server user base

   * Maintain support for minimal / workload-specific cloud deployments
     (cloud & container guests)

= Flavors =

Flavor leads and developers, please consider if the above structure
would also be suitable for your target market and user bases. I.e.
Continue to provide packages and the upgrade path, but discontinue to
manufacture the i386 full-sized / live-cd installation media.

--
Regards,

Dimitri.

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Re: Change of scope and target market for i386

Ian Bruntlett
Hi Dmitri,

On 3 May 2017 at 18:01, Dimitri John Ledkov <[hidden email]> wrote:
######
NB! this is a mailing list for developers, and this is a _proposal_
that I want to discuss with the *buntu developers. There is no need to
OMG this, especially since this is a recurring discussion every single
development cycle for many years now...
######

Here is my feedback and info about my experiences of installing and supporting lubuntu...

Your changes look interesting. I am the main part of a scheme to refurbish old computers and pass them on to people with mental health problems, their carers or children. I install Lubuntu on them as it provides a more familiar desktop environment. Some of the people I support have 32-bit systems, especially laptops. Given the age of the computers, being able to boot from a net install CD-R and install Lubuntu is invaluable. For systems that can boot from a USB flash drive, the hybrid Lubuntu iso is also invaluable.

A friend who also refurbishes computers for people told me he used Debian because the Lubuntu isos would not install on pre-586 systems. When giving info about the 32-bit isos, could you mention some of the x86 processors that are not suitable for the iso?

BW,


Ian

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Re: Change of scope and target market for i386

Jeremy Bicha-2
In reply to this post by Dimitri John Ledkov
On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Dimitri John Ledkov <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Flavor leads and developers, please consider if the above structure
> would also be suitable for your target market and user bases. I.e.
> Continue to provide packages and the upgrade path, but discontinue to
> manufacture the i386 full-sized / live-cd installation media.

Thank you for restarting this conversation.

Ubuntu GNOME was preparing [1] to announce that we were not going to
support any architecture besides amd64 after Ubuntu 18.04 LTS, when of
course our announcement was made obsolete by a bigger announcement.

I believe Dimitri is suggesting that Ubuntu Desktop may not want to
offer i386 install images any more as early as 17.10, but perhaps
still allow existing users to upgrade to 18.04 LTS so that they are
not stranded on a non-LTS release.

My opinion is that we ought to block update-manager and
do-release-upgrade from permitting upgrades for "i386" past 18.04 LTS
for flavors who will be ending i386 support.

[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/32bit_support

Thanks,
Jeremy Bicha

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Re: Change of scope and target market for i386

Dimitri John Ledkov
In reply to this post by Dimitri John Ledkov
Dear Release team,

Please action the below and remove Ubuntu Desktop i386 daily-live
images from the release manifest for Beta and Final milestones of
17.10 and therefore do not ship ubuntu-desktop-i386.iso artifact for
17.10.

As a followup to this thread it has been confirmed that argumentation
below is sound, and furthermore there is no longer any effective qa or
testing of the desktop product on actual i386 hardware (explicitly non
x86_64 CPUs).

There are no other changes requested to d-i, mini.iso, archive, or the
upgrade paths.

Regards,

Dimitri.


On 3 May 2017 at 13:01, Dimitri John Ledkov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ######
> NB! this is a mailing list for developers, and this is a _proposal_
> that I want to discuss with the *buntu developers. There is no need to
> OMG this, especially since this is a recurring discussion every single
> development cycle for many years now...
> ######
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Currently Ubuntu provides many installation medias:
>
>    * Ubuntu Core snappy architecture images
>
>    * Cloud images
>
>    * Container images
>
>    * Server subiquity img/iso
>
>    * Server classic img/iso
>
>    * Desktop live
>
>    * Netinst
>
>    * Board-specific pre-installed builds
>
> i386 architecture is changing.
>
> It is no longer the default, nor most widely used architecture on the
> traditional form factors: desktop, laptop, rack servers.
>
> But i386 is becoming more of a purpose built architecture, similar to
> how in the past "embedded" devices label was applied. Today, I would
> call it an IoT; single purpose device; and a cloud/container guest
> architecture.
>
> Ubuntu website download pages have stopped advertising traditional
> i386 images for either desktop, server, or cloud, without any
> significant backslash and without any noticeable drops in the download
> rates.
>
> Therefore I would like to propose the following change of scope for
> the i386 architecture.
>
> = Continue to provide for i386 =
>
>    * The Ubuntu archive with security updates
>
>    * Ubuntu Core snappy architecture images
>
>    * Cloud images
>
>    * Container images
>
>    * Server subiquity img/iso
>
>    * netinst
>
> = Discontinue to provide for i386 =
>
>    * Server classic img/iso
>
>    * Desktop live
>
> = Rationale for change =
>
> The above images and scope for i386 will:
>
>    * Expand and grow deployments in the IoT devices sector
>
>    * continue to support the declining i386 classic desktop/server user base
>
>    * Maintain support for minimal / workload-specific cloud deployments
>      (cloud & container guests)
>
> = Flavors =
>
> Flavor leads and developers, please consider if the above structure
> would also be suitable for your target market and user bases. I.e.
> Continue to provide packages and the upgrade path, but discontinue to
> manufacture the i386 full-sized / live-cd installation media.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Dimitri.



--
Regards,

Dimitri.

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Re: Change of scope and target market for i386

Iain Lane-6
Hi,

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 12:16:33PM -0400, Dimitri John Ledkov wrote:

> Dear Release team,
>
> Please action the below and remove Ubuntu Desktop i386 daily-live
> images from the release manifest for Beta and Final milestones of
> 17.10 and therefore do not ship ubuntu-desktop-i386.iso artifact for
> 17.10.
>
> As a followup to this thread it has been confirmed that argumentation
> below is sound, and furthermore there is no longer any effective qa or
> testing of the desktop product on actual i386 hardware (explicitly non
> x86_64 CPUs).
>
> There are no other changes requested to d-i, mini.iso, archive, or the
> upgrade paths.
Done. What this means is that Ubuntu desktop is not releasing i386 with
the final beta, and we won't build i386 ISOs any more.

Other flavours are unaffected and, as xnox said, existing installations
that are on i386 on a previous release will be able to upgrade to 17.10
and 18.04 when they are released and they'll continue to be supported as
normal.

Cheers,

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Debian Developer                                   [ [hidden email] ]
Ubuntu Developer                                   [ [hidden email] ]

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Re: Change of scope and target market for i386

Khurshid Alam
In reply to this post by Dimitri John Ledkov


On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 9:46 PM, Dimitri John Ledkov <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear Release team, As a followup to this thread it has been confirmed that argumentation below is sound, and furthermore there is no longer any effective qa or testing of the desktop product on actual i386 hardware (explicitly non x86_64 CPUs).

HI,

Will 64 iso now contain 32 bit uefi? Dell, hP, Asus sells more than 10 million hardware per quarter which comes with
32 bit uefi. Is there any way we can install 64-bit iso on those hardware ? Will Ubuntu work with these vendor, to sort out the issue?


Thanks.


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