Dell Laptop

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Dell Laptop

thaddy lozada
I have a Dell Laptop I bought about a year ago, is there any news that
Dell will offer Ubuntu installer for their prior customers?

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Re: Dell Laptop

hard wyrd
I don't think they will offer Ubuntu installers for prior customers since the customers can directly download Ubuntu from Ubuntu's own site for themselves. Dell is still largely on the planning/evaluation stage on pre-loading Ubuntu which doesn't really mean that it will include the Ubuntu CDs. This is something that really needs to be watched out for.

On 5/16/07, thaddy lozada <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have a Dell Laptop I bought about a year ago, is there any news that
Dell will offer Ubuntu installer for their prior customers?

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Microsoft's Patent against FOSS

Allan E. Registos
In reply to this post by thaddy lozada
Hi guys,

Good day...

I'm a newbie in this list. Let me introduce myself, I am Allan Registos, working as a graphic designer here in Davao City.
With the recent Microsoft's patent threat against Linux and FOSS, how does it affect to us here in the Philippines and Asia? Any ideas?

:)
Regards...
allan

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Re: Microsoft's Patent against FOSS

hard wyrd
Ball of hot air.

According to Brad Smith, they _will_ not sue. Because if they _do_, we will have a patent war up ahead.

In the Philippines, I dunno up to what extent this recent MS adventurism (yet again) regarding its so called patent portfolios is affecting our local end users, most specifically companies.

IMOO, they wont be much of an effect here simply because most of the companies using various Linux flavors are also licensed Windows users.

This _patent war_ will most probably be felt between patent heavies trying to shift their weights around with their software patents, something that Eben Moglen specifically abhors. John Soat, tech columnist of various IT publications, also categorically predicted that should the patent moshpitting happen uncontrollably, various aspects of our industries might be affected.

MS will be unable to go after Novell (even if they did not enter into a partnership), or IBM, or other companies. Why? MS itself is a violator of software patents. And Novell itself holds key patents that may bring down MS in one stroke. IBM can even finish it up with some 40,000+ patents of its own.

The thing about software patents is that it is only applicable in the US, and most of the software patents are so broad and only declare generalities in how to do something, and not very specific. Eben Moglen even went on to say that software is built out of algorithms and numbers. In the US, one cannot patent numbers. In essence, according to Eben Moglen's argument, software is just a bunch of numbers. And learning how to write software is a lot more like learning Math. And nobody has patented how to do something in Math (eg. algebra, calculus, etc...). This must also apply to software.

On 5/17/07, Allan Echavia Registos <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi guys,

Good day...

I'm a newbie in this list. Let me introduce myself, I am Allan Registos, working as a graphic designer here in Davao City.
With the recent Microsoft's patent threat against Linux and FOSS, how does it affect to us here in the Philippines and Asia? Any ideas?

:)
Regards...
allan

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Re: Microsoft's Patent against FOSS

Jopes
This is the discussion that I'm waiting for.

Point 1: As far as I know, patents from the U.S. are only applicable in U.S. So worst comes worst, we won't be affected by that (if we make our own Linux distributions, distribute it, or support it). Same goes for Ubuntu.

Point 2: Microsoft promises not to sue or charge end users. Instead, they'll make "settlements" with distributing companies so you as an end user shouldn't be affected. Well, I don't have anything against Microsoft, but I just don't want to trust that promise (it may change in time).

Point 3: Microsoft violating other patents is out of the question. In legal terms, it doesn't matter if the prosecution side is guilty of committing patent infringement. As long as Linux "steals something" from Microsoft, Linux is in the bad side. How I wish MS won't sue Redhat, etc., with their double-click patents.

Point 4: Software patents are pathetic, which ranges from "Eureka! I found an idea to make this algo faster!" to "Oh, I think I have to use this variable name." Imagine lately, the Linked List was patented. Bottomline: Software may be ideas that should be exclusive to the company who made it. Still, U.S. courts should be smart enough to know what's obvious and what's not. Good thing MS's FAT thingy was denied (they were trying to get royalties from using the FAT file system, when in fact, it's the simplest thing you can think of for a Bento Box... just split whatever big chunk of tempura you have to smaller pieces so it would fit the box).

Point 5: They won't make companies (especially big ones) believe in the first place. First of all, MS hasn't publicly described what the 235 patents are. It's like bullying people for a (set of) wrongdoing(s) that people themselves don't know of. As far as FOSS is concerned, it's clean of its conscience. Second, who the hell will believe that Linux / FOSS are better alternatives than MS's technologies because they were infringing patents from the Big One? I mean saying Linux was better because they got stuff from the worst? Give me a break. Besides, the Fortune-article-tactic is obviously a way to just spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt. I should say a desperate move because we are used to hearing news like this in the internet or some forum. Using Fortune magazine is waaay too desperate.

Point 6: Competition is good. Choice is good. If FOSS people, like us, could find points here in this move wherein Microsoft prevents fair competition, then they (accusations) would be direct counter-accusations, and, probably better ones. It just proves how government works in the U.S., their judicial system, and the way they see what's right and wrong (OK, I'm not generalizing, but they make people like me think like this): MONEY. Don't be afraid 'coz our government hasn't thought of approving software patents here. I mean, patents would just hinder products from coming out, and present themselves as better alternatives. If I find that "Bolekya's clothes" feels a lot cooler, less stylish, but very expensive, why would I buy that if "Kurnina's cottons" feels waaay cooler, more stylish, at a fraction of Bolekya's clothes? Will you let Bolekya sue Kurnina when in fact Kurnina just got the idea of "feel-cool" clothes? Will you let Bolekya push Kurnina's prices up so she would seem cheaper (cost and style) than Bolekya's?


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Re: Microsoft's Patent against FOSS

hard wyrd


On 5/17/07, Jopes <[hidden email]> wrote:
This is the discussion that I'm waiting for.

Point 2: Microsoft promises not to sue or charge end users. Instead, they'll make "settlements" with distributing companies so you as an end user shouldn't be affected. Well, I don't have anything against Microsoft, but I just don't want to trust that promise (it may change in time).

You will be surprised they haven't gone after IBM and Apple regarding these darn patents. You know why? Apple licensed the GUI core from Xerox. MS copied it (ding!). Some important aspects in NT were from OS/2 (ding!).

Wonder why MS paid heaps of money as a "balance" for Novell aside from the millions it gave in exchange for Novell's pay-up? It's for Novell not to go after MS regarding the key features MS "borrowed" from Novell Directory Services/eDirectory which it implemented into Active Directory. And what about the IPX/SPX? What about clustering on Intel hardware? What about Network Discovery with SNMP? MS has every reason not to taunt Novell, let alone IBM.

Point 3: Microsoft violating other patents is out of the question. In legal terms, it doesn't matter if the prosecution side is guilty of committing patent infringement. As long as Linux "steals something" from Microsoft, Linux is in the bad side. How I wish MS won't sue Redhat, etc., with their double-click patents.

This is where "prior art" will come into play. Anything related to the gui will fall back into Xerox's original pet project originally licensed to Apple.

Point 4: Software patents are pathetic, which ranges from "Eureka! I found an idea to make this algo faster!" to "Oh, I think I have to use this variable name." Imagine lately, the Linked List was patented. Bottomline: Software may be ideas that should be exclusive to the company who made it. Still, U.S. courts should be smart enough to know what's obvious and what's not. Good thing MS's FAT thingy was denied (they were trying to get royalties from using the FAT file system, when in fact, it's the simplest thing you can think of for a Bento Box... just split whatever big chunk of tempura you have to smaller pieces so it would fit the box).

Again, software is just a bunch of ordered numbers. And number manipulation is almost equal to Math. Nobody licenses Math nor its functions and methods.

Point 5: They won't make companies (especially big ones) believe in the first place. First of all, MS hasn't publicly described what the 235 patents are. It's like bullying people for a (set of) wrongdoing(s) that people themselves don't know of. As far as FOSS is concerned, it's clean of its conscience. Second, who the hell will believe that Linux / FOSS are better alternatives than MS's technologies because they were infringing patents from the Big One? I mean saying Linux was better because they got stuff from the worst? Give me a break. Besides, the Fortune-article-tactic is obviously a way to just spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt. I should say a desperate move because we are used to hearing news like this in the internet or some forum. Using Fortune magazine is waaay too desperate.

As usual this is being bellowed (always) by "The Bald Guy at Redmond" S. Ballmer and his consorts. FUD, FUD, and more FUD. They can't name any patent specifically coz there is a possibility that they might have patented something that has been patented before yet they implemented it differently. Thus, it will become a prime example of a mooted patent. Hark back to the old school companies before MS was even born.

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Re: Dell Laptop

AC Perdon-2
In reply to this post by thaddy lozada
good news:
 
On 5/16/07, thaddy lozada <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have a Dell Laptop I bought about a year ago, is there any news that
Dell will offer Ubuntu installer for their prior customers?

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Re: Dell Laptop

hard wyrd
Uh-oh! ^_^ MS is in a b*tch fit. When the first Dell machine with Ubuntu preloaded will ship, this will really cause a lot of stir.

Just when I thought before that Lenovo will be it for Linux. But then they buckled and fled. No preloaded Lenovo now.

As ESR predicted, and other FOSS luminaries are looking forward to, Linux will be successful mainstream if and when it will finally be preloaded into a mainstream hardware. I guess this is it for primetime, and Ubuntu will be it!

On 5/17/07, AC Perdon <[hidden email]> wrote:
good news:
 
<a href="http://www.ubuntu.com/news/dell-to-offer-ubuntu" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.ubuntu.com/news/dell-to-offer-ubuntu

 
On 5/16/07, thaddy lozada <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have a Dell Laptop I bought about a year ago, is there any news that
Dell will offer Ubuntu installer for their prior customers?

--
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Re: Microsoft's Patent against FOSS

Jerome Gotangco-2
In reply to this post by hard wyrd
The potential for a patent "cold war" is very real, and no one would
really want to be associated as the party who would start it ;-)



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Re: Microsoft's Patent against FOSS

hard wyrd
Exactly.

Regardless, MS might be perceived as having fired the most recent shot after a somewhat short ceasefire. As I have mentioned, John Soat pictured a quite troublesome future for the various industries and technologies that we have in place -- from mobile, to collaboration, to everything we do, should this patent "cold war" turn into a "patent conventional war". If it turns out ugly and every company loses sanity, then they'll be throwing patents at each other, halting technological advances everywhere.

Most likely result, though somewhat desirable for me and might be the most time consuming for the US Patent Office, will be to freeze all software-related patents dated to when the US Patent Office started issuing them and reviewing each one. Considering the countless number of patents related to IT, it will take perhaps a generation to review them. By freezing the patents, companies will no longer have the ammunition to poke at the others even for a short time only.

The easiest way will be to revoke these patents indefinitely.

On 5/17/07, Jerome Gotangco <[hidden email]> wrote:
The potential for a patent "cold war" is very real, and no one would
really want to be associated as the party who would start it ;-)



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Re: Microsoft's Patent against FOSS

Dean Michael Berris
I want to dowse cold water to this conversation.

I Am Not A Lawyer, and even if we do have opinions about these things,
it isn't healthy for us to spread more speculation than required. If
you have anything political to say, maybe write a blog? We like
reading these things, but I don't think we like reading these things
in the mailing list. I can be wrong though so please feel free to
correct me.

So please, can we stop with the political stuff and get back to
contributing to open source projects or whatever else we do when we
have time?

Thank you.

[snipped patent related discussions]

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Re: Microsoft's Patent against FOSS

Jopes
Sorry. I just don't get this. I don't think we're a technical-only group. Besides, someone asked about patents, and we should help him or we will end up letting him be in the dark (and buy Vista) because nobody wants to respond to him.

As for contributing to open source projects, I've learned back in college that with the current competition in the software, code and bug reports is not enough to ensure the success of FOSS. We have to counter FUDs like the one we saw this weekend. This is yet the biggest we've seen in the entire FOSS history and we can't afford to just let it pass by without a fight.

And surely, FOSS people should know that FOSS isn't only software (or technical stuff), it's also political, social, and ethical stuff (reason we have the GPL).

On 5/17/07, Dean Michael Berris <[hidden email]> wrote:
I want to dowse cold water to this conversation.

I Am Not A Lawyer, and even if we do have opinions about these things,
it isn't healthy for us to spread more speculation than required. If
you have anything political to say, maybe write a blog? We like
reading these things, but I don't think we like reading these things
in the mailing list. I can be wrong though so please feel free to
correct me.

So please, can we stop with the political stuff and get back to
contributing to open source projects or whatever else we do when we
have time?

Thank you.

[snipped patent related discussions]

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Re: Microsoft's Patent against FOSS

Jopes


On 5/17/07, Jopes <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry. I just don't get this. I don't think we're a technical-only group. Besides, someone asked about patents, and we should help him or we will end up letting him be in the dark (and buy Vista) because nobody wants to respond to him.

As for contributing to open source projects, I've learned back in college that with the current competition in the software,

This should be "software industry". Sorry... for the late correction.

code and bug reports is not enough to ensure the success of FOSS. We have to counter FUDs like the one we saw this weekend. This is yet the biggest we've seen in the entire FOSS history and we can't afford to just let it pass by without a fight.

And surely, FOSS people should know that FOSS isn't only software (or technical stuff), it's also political, social, and ethical stuff (reason we have the GPL).

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Re: Microsoft's Patent against FOSS

Dean Michael Berris
In reply to this post by Jopes
On 5/17/07, Jopes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Sorry. I just don't get this. I don't think we're a technical-only group.
> Besides, someone asked about patents, and we should help him or we will end
> up letting him be in the dark (and buy Vista) because nobody wants to
> respond to him.
>

What's wrong with buying Vista if you can afford it?

If you really want to learn about patents, you go to:

http://www.uspto.gov/
http://www.google.com/patents
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent

As to what the MS Patent issue brings, you hop on over to digg.com or
slashdot.org and take part in the debate/discussion/whatnot there.

Discussing patents in an Ubuntu mailing list just feels wrong.
Speculating on patents when you're not a lawyer is just... Oh I don't
know... Wrong?

> As for contributing to open source projects, I've learned back in college
> that with the current competition in the software, code and bug reports is
> not enough to ensure the success of FOSS. We have to counter FUDs like the
> one we saw this weekend. This is yet the biggest we've seen in the entire
> FOSS history and we can't afford to just let it pass by without a fight.
>

So it's FUD, do we need to bite?

I never thought FOSS was about competition in software... I always
thought FOSS was about writing software which you let others use.
Didn't come across as competition to me.

> And surely, FOSS people should know that FOSS isn't only software (or
> technical stuff), it's also political, social, and ethical stuff (reason we
> have the GPL).
>

FOSS is software whether you like it or not. Without software that is
free and open source, how do you call it Free/Open Source Software?

And IMO, the GPL is broken. The Free Software Movement is the social
commentary of Richard Stallman. The Open Source Movement is about open
source software. Depending on your religion about it, it all boils
down to software.

Whether you like it or not, software is at the heart of The Free
Software Movement and the Open Source Movement.

So can we go back to writing FOSS and stop with this political nonesense?

Thank you.

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Re: Microsoft's Patent against FOSS

Jopes
I'm sorry if I really feel it's OK to discuss it here. I might be violating "mailing list rules" because of this post. Anyway, I'm sorry but can I ask if there were any rules? Does any of you really feel it's bad to discuss this "nonsense" here?

Anyway, just going back to the topic. The reason why we **really** need to discuss it here instead of Slashdot and other "big" sites is because we need to discuss it with the **local scene** in mind. Mr. Allan from Davao asked how will it affect our use of FOSS here in the Philippines.

Anyway. I'm really sorry if I went political. It's just **my preference** to discuss political aspects of FOSS which, **in my idea**, is essential in advocating its use. Please kick me off the mailing list if I really sound "inappropriate".

On 5/17/07, Dean Michael Berris <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 5/17/07, Jopes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Sorry. I just don't get this. I don't think we're a technical-only group.
> Besides, someone asked about patents, and we should help him or we will end
> up letting him be in the dark (and buy Vista) because nobody wants to
> respond to him.
>

What's wrong with buying Vista if you can afford it?

If you really want to learn about patents, you go to:

http://www.uspto.gov/
http://www.google.com/patents
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent

As to what the MS Patent issue brings, you hop on over to digg.com or
slashdot.org and take part in the debate/discussion/whatnot there.

Discussing patents in an Ubuntu mailing list just feels wrong.
Speculating on patents when you're not a lawyer is just... Oh I don't
know... Wrong?

> As for contributing to open source projects, I've learned back in college
> that with the current competition in the software, code and bug reports is
> not enough to ensure the success of FOSS. We have to counter FUDs like the
> one we saw this weekend. This is yet the biggest we've seen in the entire
> FOSS history and we can't afford to just let it pass by without a fight.
>

So it's FUD, do we need to bite?

I never thought FOSS was about competition in software... I always
thought FOSS was about writing software which you let others use.
Didn't come across as competition to me.

> And surely, FOSS people should know that FOSS isn't only software (or
> technical stuff), it's also political, social, and ethical stuff (reason we
> have the GPL).
>

FOSS is software whether you like it or not. Without software that is
free and open source, how do you call it Free/Open Source Software?

And IMO, the GPL is broken. The Free Software Movement is the social
commentary of Richard Stallman. The Open Source Movement is about open
source software. Depending on your religion about it, it all boils
down to software.

Whether you like it or not, software is at the heart of The Free
Software Movement and the Open Source Movement.

So can we go back to writing FOSS and stop with this political nonesense?

Thank you.

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Re: Microsoft's Patent against FOSS

Jerome Gotangco-2
On 5/17/07, Jopes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'm sorry if I really feel it's OK to discuss it here. I might be violating
> "mailing list rules" because of this post. Anyway, I'm sorry but can I ask
> if there were any rules? Does any of you really feel it's bad to discuss
> this "nonsense" here?

AFAIK when I started the list, there wasn't much thought of what
should be here, since this is after all a community list for Ubuntu
users here in PH. In the bigger Ubuntu lists, we tend to post this
kind of "political" stuff to a list called "Sounder", but there's no
need for such here since its not really a very active list to say the
least.

> Anyway, just going back to the topic. The reason why we **really** need to
> discuss it here instead of Slashdot and other "big" sites is because we need
> to discuss it with the **local scene** in mind. Mr. Allan from Davao asked
> how will it affect our use of FOSS here in the Philippines.

I think its actually a valid question that can be answered, even if
its not directly Ubuntu related.

> Anyway. I'm really sorry if I went political. It's just **my preference** to
> discuss political aspects of FOSS which, **in my idea**, is essential in
> advocating its use. Please kick me off the mailing list if I really sound
> "inappropriate".

Nahh its alright I believe. I have no direct control of this list
anymore (it's now under Zak, but where he is at the moment, I have no
idea). IMO, opinions are pretty much like that - opinions. We just
have to respect each other's opinions though.


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Jerome Gotangco

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Re: Microsoft's Patent against FOSS

Dean Michael Berris
In reply to this post by Jopes
On 5/17/07, Jopes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'm sorry if I really feel it's OK to discuss it here. I might be violating
> "mailing list rules" because of this post. Anyway, I'm sorry but can I ask
> if there were any rules? Does any of you really feel it's bad to discuss
> this "nonsense" here?
>

It's not about "bad" or "against the rules". I just said I felt it was
"wrong" this being an Ubuntu mailing list. I might be wrong according
to someone else's criteria though, so kick me out of the list if you
want.

> Anyway, just going back to the topic. The reason why we **really** need to
> discuss it here instead of Slashdot and other "big" sites is because we need
> to discuss it with the **local scene** in mind. Mr. Allan from Davao asked
> how will it affect our use of FOSS here in the Philippines.
>

I thought this was already answered in the earlier posts that in
short, it wouldn't or at least shouldn't. I merely said, that to nip
the bud of this turning into a political "Patents are Evil, and
Microsoft is Evil" thread, I posted what I posted. Apparently doing
that spawned yet another philosophical masturbation of sorts going to
the discussion of "wrong" and "bad".

> Anyway. I'm really sorry if I went political. It's just **my preference** to
> discuss political aspects of FOSS which, **in my idea**, is essential in
> advocating its use. Please kick me off the mailing list if I really sound
> "inappropriate".
>

I don't care about your preferences. I just hope you considered that
other people (like me) would rather not read/proliferate speculation
in a forum/mailing list meant for something entirely different.
Hmmm... Maybe people should kick me off the list.

Thank you.

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http://cplusplus-soup.blogspot.com/
mikhailberis AT gmail DOT com
+63 928 7291459

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Re: Microsoft's Patent against FOSS

Allan E. Registos
I'm sorry for starting this a bit-off topic in this mailing-list.
My sincere apology...


Dean Michael Berris wrote:
On 5/17/07, Jopes [hidden email] wrote:
  
I'm sorry if I really feel it's OK to discuss it here. I might be violating
"mailing list rules" because of this post. Anyway, I'm sorry but can I ask
if there were any rules? Does any of you really feel it's bad to discuss
this "nonsense" here?

    

It's not about "bad" or "against the rules". I just said I felt it was
"wrong" this being an Ubuntu mailing list. I might be wrong according
to someone else's criteria though, so kick me out of the list if you
want.

  
Anyway, just going back to the topic. The reason why we **really** need to
discuss it here instead of Slashdot and other "big" sites is because we need
to discuss it with the **local scene** in mind. Mr. Allan from Davao asked
how will it affect our use of FOSS here in the Philippines.

    

I thought this was already answered in the earlier posts that in
short, it wouldn't or at least shouldn't. I merely said, that to nip
the bud of this turning into a political "Patents are Evil, and
Microsoft is Evil" thread, I posted what I posted. Apparently doing
that spawned yet another philosophical masturbation of sorts going to
the discussion of "wrong" and "bad".

  
Anyway. I'm really sorry if I went political. It's just **my preference** to
discuss political aspects of FOSS which, **in my idea**, is essential in
advocating its use. Please kick me off the mailing list if I really sound
"inappropriate".

    

I don't care about your preferences. I just hope you considered that
other people (like me) would rather not read/proliferate speculation
in a forum/mailing list meant for something entirely different.
Hmmm... Maybe people should kick me off the list.

Thank you.

  

-- 
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
  - Martin Luther King Jr.

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Re: Microsoft's Patent against FOSS

Zak B. Elep-2
In reply to this post by Jerome Gotangco-2
"Jerome Gotangco" <[hidden email]> writes:

> Nahh its alright I believe. I have no direct control of this list
> anymore (it's now under Zak, but where he is at the moment, I have no
> idea). IMO, opinions are pretty much like that - opinions. We just
> have to respect each other's opinions though.

Right here.

Among the other things that have been keeping me entertained and busy
(e.g., reading the 9P specs for my little summer project, freeing some
space for a Gutsy chroot for the merges, and swimming,) I have been
experiencing some mail trouble these past few days due to my host's
hardware, and I've yet to read the full thread (or maybe I'll let Gnus
read it for me...)

That said, I agree with Jerome that posters have to respect each other's
opinion; come to blows with it on some other forum, like maybe via a
nice game of Counter Strike (btw, who still plays that game these days?)

Cheers,

Zakame

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Re: Microsoft's Patent against FOSS

Alex Lee-7
In reply to this post by Allan E. Registos
No apologies. Nothing to feel sorry for. I've seen and
read less relevant topics discussed here. Whether we
like it or not we are a collection of diversities, i
gu
ess respect is the issue here. It's part of the Ubuntu
philosophy or have we forgotten? Peace..

--- Allan Echavia Registos
<[hidden email]> wrote:


---------------------------------
  I'm sorry for starting this a bit-off topic in this
mailing-list.
My sincere apology...


Dean Michael Berris wrote:  
On 5/17/07, Jopes <[hidden email]> wrote:  
     
I'm sorry if I really feel it's OK to discuss it here.
I might be violating"mailing list rules" because of
this post. Anyway, I'm sorry but can I askif there
were any rules? Does any of you really feel it's bad
to discussthis "nonsense" here?    
   
It's not about "bad" or "against the rules". I just
said I felt it was"wrong" this being an Ubuntu mailing
list. I might be wrong accordingto someone else's
criteria though, so kick me out of the list if
youwant.  
     
Anyway, just going back to the topic. The reason why
we **really** need todiscuss it here instead of
Slashdot and other "big" sites is because we needto
discuss it with the **local scene** in mind. Mr. Allan
from Davao askedhow will it affect our use of FOSS
here in the Philippines.    
   
I thought this was already answered in the earlier
posts that inshort, it wouldn't or at least shouldn't.
I merely said, that to nipthe bud of this turning into
a political "Patents are Evil, andMicrosoft is Evil"
thread, I posted what I posted. Apparently doingthat
spawned yet another philosophical masturbation of
sorts going tothe discussion of "wrong" and "bad".  
     
Anyway. I'm really sorry if I went political. It's
just **my preference** todiscuss political aspects of
FOSS which, **in my idea**, is essential inadvocating
its use. Please kick me off the mailing list if I
really sound"inappropriate".    
   
I don't care about your preferences. I just hope you
considered thatother people (like me) would rather not
read/proliferate speculationin a forum/mailing list
meant for something entirely different.Hmmm... Maybe
people should kick me off the list.Thank you.  


-- "Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual
power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."  -
Martin Luther King Jr.
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> ubuntu-ph mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-ph
>


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