Details of what is happening with python3.8 in Ubuntu?

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Details of what is happening with python3.8 in Ubuntu?

Sebastien Bacher
Hey there,

Matthias announced that F would have python3.8 and from the recent
upload, it looks like that's being worked on actively at the moment.

While looking at the update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages report
I noticed some delta-over-debian being added to packages where I
can't really make sense of what's going on in the changelog.

Some examples
http://launchpadlibrarian.net/447713946/pygobject_3.34.0-1build1_3.34.0-1ubuntu1.diff.gz
http://launchpadlibrarian.net/447727952/pycairo_1.16.2-1ubuntu1_1.16.2-1ubuntu3.diff.gz
http://launchpadlibrarian.net/447772089/cracklib2_2.9.6-2build1_2.9.6-2ubuntu1.diff.gz

Some changes for example add a Build-Depends on dh-exec and hacks in the
.install, I guess those doing the changes understand why but it triggers
some questions to me

- Could someone explain why those .install tricks are needed exactly?
Couldn't the issue be solved in the python packaging tools instead?

- Can/should those changes be forwarded to Debian? (they are not at the
moment?) I would be happy to help with that once I understand the
technical approach being taken.

- Is that a transition we are under pressure to get through? Should we
maybe take the time to document what's going on and have more people
helping and do things in a way were we collectively understand what is
happening so we know what to do from those deltas in the futur/ help
forwarding to Debian for example?

Thanks,
Sebastien Bacher



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Re: Details of what is happening with python3.8 in Ubuntu?

Michael Hudson-Doyle
Hi Seb,

On Tue, 22 Oct 2019 at 02:27, Sebastien Bacher <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hey there,

Matthias announced that F would have python3.8 and from the recent
upload, it looks like that's being worked on actively at the moment.

Yes. To be clear, "F would have python3.8 (at archive opening)" means having python3.8 as a supported version, not just having 3.8 available (eoan has 3.8 available).
 
While looking at the update_excuses_by_team.html#desktop-packages report
I noticed some delta-over-debian being added to packages where I
can't really make sense of what's going on in the changelog.

Some examples
http://launchpadlibrarian.net/447713946/pygobject_3.34.0-1build1_3.34.0-1ubuntu1.diff.gz
http://launchpadlibrarian.net/447727952/pycairo_1.16.2-1ubuntu1_1.16.2-1ubuntu3.diff.gz
http://launchpadlibrarian.net/447772089/cracklib2_2.9.6-2build1_2.9.6-2ubuntu1.diff.gz

Some changes for example add a Build-Depends on dh-exec and hacks in the
.install, I guess those doing the changes understand why but it triggers
some questions to me

- Could someone explain why those .install tricks are needed exactly?

It's because the "abi tag" for python c extensions has changed in a way that makes it a bit annoying / impossible to write a glob that matches 3.7 and 3.8 release build extensions and not the debug extensions.
 
Couldn't the issue be solved in the python packaging tools instead?

Yes, probably.

- Can/should those changes be forwarded to Debian? (they are not at the
moment?) I would be happy to help with that once I understand the
technical approach being taken.

I've made a bug report for cracklib2 now.

- Is that a transition we are under pressure to get through?

Well we want it to complete before opening the archive and I assume people want the archive to open...
 
Should we
maybe take the time to document what's going on

 
And there is a transition tracker: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/python3.8-add.html (not sure this has been advertised but it's not hard to find).

and have more people
helping and do things in a way were we collectively understand what is
happening

Maybe roping in more people would help, maybe not. The plan was for Matthias and I to work on this more or less full time and just crank through it.
 
so we know what to do from those deltas in the futur/ help
forwarding to Debian for example?

While in general we should certainly forward things to Debian I do think the people who end up doing this transition in Debian in general know to look for potential fixes in Ubuntu (when the changes will presumably make more sense if those people are diagnosing the same or similar build failures). And some of them may not be necessary, if like you say dh-python can grow smarts to make installing the right extensions into the right packages more easily.

Cheers,
mwh

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Re: Details of what is happening with python3.8 in Ubuntu?

Sebastien Bacher

Hey Michael, thanks for the reply.

Le 23/10/2019 à 01:01, Michael Hudson-Doyle a écrit :

- Could someone explain why those .install tricks are needed exactly?

It's because the "abi tag" for python c extensions has changed in a way that makes it a bit annoying / impossible to write a glob that matches 3.7 and 3.8 release build extensions and not the debug extensions.
 
Couldn't the issue be solved in the python packaging tools instead?

Yes, probably.

Ok, thanks, that's useful information about the naming/matching. If it could probably be fixed in the tooling shouldn't we have looked at that first rather than dumping a stack of delta in the archive which is going to bite us back later by having to deal with manually reviewing/merging those packages later?


I've made a bug report for cracklib2 now.*

Thanks!


- Is that a transition we are under pressure to get through?

Well we want it to complete before opening the archive and I assume people want the archive to open...
Ok, I didn't know that it needed to be complete before archive opening since we have proposed and I though it could be handle as a normal transition and blocked in there still after opening.

 
Should we
maybe take the time to document what's going on

 
And there is a transition tracker: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/python3.8-add.html (not sure this has been advertised but it's not hard to find).

Right, the first one is the one I referred to. I was more looking to an email that explained e.g the technical of e.g the abi/naming change and the problem it creates on .install matching and the recommended solution. I think it's important to share knowledge in such cases so other developers understand what is being done and why and then can be helping.


Maybe roping in more people would help, maybe not. The plan was for Matthias and I to work on this more or less full time and just crank through it.

Well, cranking through it is only one side of the story. Then we need to maintain those changes. Do you&Mathias plan to keep on maintaining those packages you touched, doing Debian merges when needed, etc? If not and the expectation is that the team 'owning' the packages deal with the maintainance then the changes need to be understood by the people who are going to maintain them...


Cheers,
Sebastien Bacher


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