Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

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Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

Karl Auer
I've started a new thread as this seemed to have nothing to do with
autoselection of text.

There is a settings option to turn your touchpad on and off. It seems
to be global. It does not affect a mouse, trackball or touchpoint, just
the touchpad. OR use the same method as given below for a touchpoint,
making the obvious substitutions.

To turn your mouse off, unplug it :-)

To turn off your trackpoint, use xinput list to locate the device, then
to list the properties of it, then to set the enabled property to off. 
E.g. on my Lenovo:

xinput list
...
...AlpsPS/2 ALPS DualPoint Stick id=13 ...
...

xinput -list-props 13
Device 'AlpsPS/2 ALPS DualPoint Stick':
        Device Enabled (143): 1
...

xinput -set-prop "AlpsPS/2 ALPS DualPoint Stick" "Device Enabled" 0

Regards, K.

PS: Written in haste. Usual provisos.

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Re: Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

Liam Proven
On 27 December 2017 at 09:46, Karl Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I've started a new thread as this seemed to have nothing to do with
> autoselection of text.
>
> There is a settings option to turn your touchpad on and off. It seems
> to be global. It does not affect a mouse, trackball or touchpoint, just
> the touchpad. OR use the same method as given below for a touchpoint,
> making the obvious substitutions.
>
> To turn your mouse off, unplug it :-)
>
> To turn off your trackpoint, use xinput list to locate the device, then
> to list the properties of it, then to set the enabled property to off.
> E.g. on my Lenovo:
>
> xinput list
> ...
> ...AlpsPS/2 ALPS DualPoint Stick id=13 ...
> ...
>
> xinput -list-props 13
> Device 'AlpsPS/2 ALPS DualPoint Stick':
>         Device Enabled (143):   1
> ...
>
> xinput -set-prop "AlpsPS/2 ALPS DualPoint Stick" "Device Enabled" 0
>
> Regards, K.
>
> PS: Written in haste. Usual provisos.

So you have an Alps driver.

Another poster had a Synaptics driver.

Neither of our Dell owners seems to know what trackpad they have or
what, if any, driver they are using.

As I already said: they need to make sure they're using the right driver.

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Re: Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

Owen Thomas
Ubuntu does many things very well, but I have been thinking for some time that it could make life easier by allowing the user of the OS installed on a Dell to disable and re-enable the touchpad as well as controlling other aspects of the touchpad which can frustrate and confound with a simple set of keystrokes. Many users would be thankful that they don't themselves have to resort to thinking about how to hack together a bespoke solution for what appears to be features that the hardware appears to support and may have done so for some time. It would be lovely to see this enhancement on a future release of the OS.

Other than my sage advice as to what capabilities I think would be valuable in a future version of Ubuntu, I'm not a contributor. Perhaps those who are might think this is a good enhancement to make.


On 27 December 2017 at 19:59, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 27 December 2017 at 09:46, Karl Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I've started a new thread as this seemed to have nothing to do with
> autoselection of text.
>
> There is a settings option to turn your touchpad on and off. It seems
> to be global. It does not affect a mouse, trackball or touchpoint, just
> the touchpad. OR use the same method as given below for a touchpoint,
> making the obvious substitutions.
>
> To turn your mouse off, unplug it :-)
>
> To turn off your trackpoint, use xinput list to locate the device, then
> to list the properties of it, then to set the enabled property to off.
> E.g. on my Lenovo:
>
> xinput list
> ...
> ...AlpsPS/2 ALPS DualPoint Stick id=13 ...
> ...
>
> xinput -list-props 13
> Device 'AlpsPS/2 ALPS DualPoint Stick':
>         Device Enabled (143):   1
> ...
>
> xinput -set-prop "AlpsPS/2 ALPS DualPoint Stick" "Device Enabled" 0
>
> Regards, K.
>
> PS: Written in haste. Usual provisos.

So you have an Alps driver.

Another poster had a Synaptics driver.

Neither of our Dell owners seems to know what trackpad they have or
what, if any, driver they are using.

As I already said: they need to make sure they're using the right driver.

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Re: Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

robert rottermann
In reply to this post by Liam Proven


> So you have an Alps driver.
>
> Another poster had a Synaptics driver.
>
> Neither of our Dell owners seems to know what trackpad they have or
> what, if any, driver they are using.
>
> As I already said: they need to make sure they're using the right driver.
>
so how would i check what touch-pad I have?
Is there a system command for it or do i have to hunt the manufacturer's
documentation?
robert

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Re: Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

Liam Proven
On 27 December 2017 at 10:56, robert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
> so how would i check what touch-pad I have?
> Is there a system command for it or do i have to hunt the manufacturer's
> documentation?

Google.

If you Googled "ubuntu identify touchpad" you would have found:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingTouchpadDetection

More but older info:

https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/determine-touchpad-type-920477/

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Re: Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

robert rottermann


On 27.12.2017 11:28, Liam Proven wrote:

> On 27 December 2017 at 10:56, robert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> so how would i check what touch-pad I have?
>> Is there a system command for it or do i have to hunt the manufacturer's
>> documentation?
> Google.
>
> If you Googled "ubuntu identify touchpad" you would have found:
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingTouchpadDetection
>
> More but older info:
>
> https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/determine-touchpad-type-920477/
>
And a nice document I found explaining Touchpad Synaptics:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Touchpad_Synaptics#Buttonless_touchpads_.28aka_ClickPads.29


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Re: Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

Liam Proven
On 27 December 2017 at 11:49, robert <[hidden email]> wrote:

> And a nice document I found explaining Touchpad Synaptics:
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Touchpad_Synaptics#Buttonless_touchpads_.28aka_ClickPads.29

Yes, but we don't know if it is a Synaptics one yet -- or do we? Did
you find out?

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Re: Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

Karl Auer
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Wed, 2017-12-27 at 09:59 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:
> So you have an Alps driver.
> Another poster had a Synaptics driver.
> Neither of our Dell owners seems to know what trackpad they have or
> what, if any, driver they are using.
> As I already said: they need to make sure they're using the right
> driver.

I was responding to the question "how do I turn it off". I provided two
ways - use the settings app, which has an actual switch that turns the
touchpad off, or use xinput. The procedure for using xinput includes
identifying the device.

If there is a driver problem, maybe none of the above will work, but
they can at least be attempted.

Regards, K.

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Re: Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

Karl Auer
In reply to this post by Owen Thomas
On Wed, 2017-12-27 at 20:37 +1100, Owen Thomas wrote:
> Ubuntu does many things very well, but I have been thinking for some
> time that it could make life easier by allowing the user of the OS
> installed on a Dell to disable and re-enable the touchpad as well as
> controlling other aspects of the touchpad which can frustrate and
> confound with a simple set of keystrokes.

Sorry if I am coming too late to this party, but have you tried the
settings application yet? I turn the touchpad off on all my laptops, as
I prefer a mouse and dislike stray cursor movements. The settings app
has always worked for me, including on Dell hardware.

On my current Lenovo, the settings app allows the touchpad to be turned
off and on; when on, the pointer speed can be adjusted, tap to click
can be enabled or disabled, as can two-finger scrolling and so called
"natural" scrolling.

Regards, K.

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Re: Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

Karl Auer
In reply to this post by robert rottermann
On Wed, 2017-12-27 at 10:56 +0100, robert wrote:
> so how would i check what touch-pad I have?
> Is there a system command for it or do i have to hunt the
> manufacturer's documentation?

You could try starting with "xinput -list"

And Googling your make and model...

Regards, K.

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Re: Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Karl Auer
On 27 December 2017 at 12:06, Karl Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I was responding to the question "how do I turn it off". I provided two
> ways - use the settings app, which has an actual switch that turns the
> touchpad off, or use xinput. The procedure for using xinput includes
> identifying the device.
>
> If there is a driver problem, maybe none of the above will work, but
> they can at least be attempted.

Yes, I know that.

I was not saying you're wrong or your info is incorrect.

But what you're describing is info for an ALPS trackpad. It won't work
for a Synaptics one.

And if they have neither an Alps not Synaptic (or whatever) driver
installed, then maybe they won't need to turn it off if they just
install the correct driver and can then adjust the sensitivity. Do you
see what I mean?

But they can't install the right driver, and we can't tell them what
to do, unless we know what hardware they have. Lots of companies make
trackpads.


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Re: Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

Owen Thomas
In reply to this post by Karl Auer
On 27 December 2017 at 22:11, Karl Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:
On my current Lenovo, the settings app allows the touchpad to be turned
off and on; when on, the pointer speed can be adjusted, tap to click
can be enabled or disabled, as can two-finger scrolling and so called
"natural" scrolling.

Hey! There it is.

That kind of works, though it is crude and requires keyboard navigation to re-enable when you want your mouse back. I like the touchpad when I want to use it, but it gets in the way when I'm using the keyboard. I'd rather disable the touchpad quickly and then re-enable it when I want to use it just as quickly. Hence, I think it would be nice if Ubuntu had a shortcut key to toggle touchpad actvity.

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Re: Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

Colin Law
On 27 December 2017 at 11:30, Owen Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 27 December 2017 at 22:11, Karl Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:
On my current Lenovo, the settings app allows the touchpad to be turned
off and on; when on, the pointer speed can be adjusted, tap to click
can be enabled or disabled, as can two-finger scrolling and so called
"natural" scrolling.

Hey! There it is.

That kind of works, though it is crude and requires keyboard navigation to re-enable when you want your mouse back. I like the touchpad when I want to use it, but it gets in the way when I'm using the keyboard. I'd rather disable the touchpad quickly and then re-enable it when I want to use it just as quickly. Hence, I think it would be nice if Ubuntu had a shortcut key to toggle touchpad actvity.

You can assign a key to a command in Settings > Devices > Keyboard > Custom Shortcuts.

Colin



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Re: Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

Owen Thomas
On 27 December 2017 at 22:52, Colin Law <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 27 December 2017 at 11:30, Owen Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 27 December 2017 at 22:11, Karl Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:
On my current Lenovo, the settings app allows the touchpad to be turned
off and on; when on, the pointer speed can be adjusted, tap to click
can be enabled or disabled, as can two-finger scrolling and so called
"natural" scrolling.

Hey! There it is.

That kind of works, though it is crude and requires keyboard navigation to re-enable when you want your mouse back. I like the touchpad when I want to use it, but it gets in the way when I'm using the keyboard. I'd rather disable the touchpad quickly and then re-enable it when I want to use it just as quickly. Hence, I think it would be nice if Ubuntu had a shortcut key to toggle touchpad actvity.

You can assign a key to a command in Settings > Devices > Keyboard > Custom Shortcuts.


Thanks Colin. I think I might do that. Perhaps there could be a default key mapping in some future Ubuntu: Ctrl-Alt-M doesn't appear to do anything at the moment and sounds kind of good.

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Re: Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

Karl Auer
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Wed, 2017-12-27 at 12:13 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:
> But what you're describing is info for an ALPS trackpad. It won't
> work for a Synaptics one.

What I was describing was info for ANY trackpad, or at least not
specifically for an Alps one. The first xinput step ("list")locates the
device, the second step ("list-props") tells you its name, the third
step ("set" or "disable") uses the name to disable it.
 
xinput reads info from the driver and uses it to control the device, so
if the wrong driver is being used that could stop xinput working
properly.

You are saying, however, that this procedure will definitely not work
for Synaptics, even with the correct driver in use?

I don't have one to test with, but googling suggests that xinput does
work with Synaptics. Google "synaptics touchpad xinput linux". I find a
LOT of pages that describe using xinput to control a Synaptics
touchpad. Several of them have handy scripts that could be bound to a
key, too...

Regards, K.

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Re: Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

Liam Proven
On 27 December 2017 at 22:03, Karl Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What I was describing was info for ANY trackpad, or at least not
> specifically for an Alps one. The first xinput step ("list")locates the
> device, the second step ("list-props") tells you its name, the third
> step ("set" or "disable") uses the name to disable it.
>
> xinput reads info from the driver and uses it to control the device, so
> if the wrong driver is being used that could stop xinput working
> properly.
>
> You are saying, however, that this procedure will definitely not work
> for Synaptics, even with the correct driver in use?

I don't know for sure. Do you?

The thing is, advice specific to one type of hardware is not very
helpful if the person you're offering it to doesn't have that kind of
hardware. We don't know exactly what they have. They don't know. So we
should tread carefully.

That's all. Not shouting you down, not saying you're wrong.


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Re: Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

Nils Kassube-2
Liam Proven wrote:

> On 27 December 2017 at 22:03, Karl Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > What I was describing was info for ANY trackpad, or at least not
> > specifically for an Alps one. The first xinput step ("list")locates
> > the device, the second step ("list-props") tells you its name, the
> > third step ("set" or "disable") uses the name to disable it.
> >
> > xinput reads info from the driver and uses it to control the device,
> > so if the wrong driver is being used that could stop xinput working
> > properly.
> >
> > You are saying, however, that this procedure will definitely not
> > work
> > for Synaptics, even with the correct driver in use?
>
> I don't know for sure. Do you?

I can confirm that Karls description works for a Synaptics touchpad - I
have tried it ...


Nils

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Re: Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

Karl Auer
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Thu, 2017-12-28 at 11:03 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:
> On 27 December 2017 at 22:03, Karl Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > You are saying, however, that this procedure will definitely not
> > work for Synaptics, even with the correct driver in use?
> I don't know for sure. Do you?

We do now - thanks, Nils :-)

> The thing is, advice specific to one type of hardware is not very
> helpful if the person you're offering it to doesn't have that kind of
> hardware. We don't know exactly what they have. They don't know. So
> we should tread carefully.

The advice I gave was NOT relating to any specific hardware, though
obviously the examples I gave referenced the specific hardware the
example commands were run on.

It was a generic procedure that should work on pretty much all mouse-
like hardware. If it does not, that is in itself an interesting fact.

Not only that, the procedure identifies the hardware they have - or at
least, the hardware Linux thinks they have.

So I think it was completely appropriate for me to offer that advice,
and I have no idea why you thought it was necessary to "tread
carefully" with it.

Regards, k.

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Re: Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Nils Kassube-2
On 28 December 2017 at 11:31, Nils Kassube <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I can confirm that Karls description works for a Synaptics touchpad - I
> have tried it ...

That's great news. Can you give an example of the output -- it might
be helpful for Robert & Peter?

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Re: Disable touchpad (was: Re: switch off auto-selection of text (or what ever it is called ..))

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Karl Auer
On 28 December 2017 at 12:29, Karl Auer <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> The advice I gave was NOT relating to any specific hardware, though
> obviously the examples I gave referenced the specific hardware the
> example commands were run on.
>
> It was a generic procedure that should work on pretty much all mouse-
> like hardware. If it does not, that is in itself an interesting fact.
>
> Not only that, the procedure identifies the hardware they have - or at
> least, the hardware Linux thinks they have.
>
> So I think it was completely appropriate for me to offer that advice,
> and I have no idea why you thought it was necessary to "tread
> carefully" with it.

Karl. I am _not_ trying to give you a hard time here.

But listen, seriously, I have worked in tech support since 1988. You
_cannot_ take anything for granted, up to and including users checking
that the computer is plugged in *and* turned on. You even need to
check that there is not a power cut and they have not realised that
will stop their computer working.

But to say so that clearly upsets people. It may well upset Robert and
Peter now, but you have forced me to spell it out. I hope I have not
upset them!

An example that is specific to 1 type of hardware, and which would
need adjustment for other types of hardware, is not good because what
is a very obvious change to one person is a line of mystic magical
incantation in a mix of Chinese and Ancient Greek to another.


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