FFE: Setting Ubuntu Font As Default

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FFE: Setting Ubuntu Font As Default

Rick Spencer-2
Hi all ...

I want to bring this FFE to attention:
https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/649616

It is my understanding that using the Ubuntu font by default has been
the plan of record for some weeks or months. None the less, given the
time lines involved, I thought it best to raise wider awareness that we
are preparing this change as it is after even RC Freeze.

The change will set the Ubuntu font to be the default in the UI, but not
for documents or monospace. Please note that the FFE has not yet been
accepted.

Cheers, Rick


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Re: FFE: Setting Ubuntu Font As Default

Scott Kitterman-3
On Thursday, September 30, 2010 02:14:03 pm Rick Spencer wrote:

> Hi all ...
>
> I want to bring this FFE to attention:
> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/649616
>
> It is my understanding that using the Ubuntu font by default has been
> the plan of record for some weeks or months. None the less, given the
> time lines involved, I thought it best to raise wider awareness that we
> are preparing this change as it is after even RC Freeze.
>
> The change will set the Ubuntu font to be the default in the UI, but not
> for documents or monospace. Please note that the FFE has not yet been
> accepted.
>
> Cheers, Rick

It was also the plan of record to have the font in the archive about a month
earlier than we actually got it.  

Scott K

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Re: FFE: Setting Ubuntu Font As Default

Mario Limonciello-2
Hi All:

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 14:06, Scott Kitterman <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thursday, September 30, 2010 02:14:03 pm Rick Spencer wrote:
> Hi all ...
>
> I want to bring this FFE to attention:
> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/649616
>
> It is my understanding that using the Ubuntu font by default has been
> the plan of record for some weeks or months. None the less, given the
> time lines involved, I thought it best to raise wider awareness that we
> are preparing this change as it is after even RC Freeze.
>
> The change will set the Ubuntu font to be the default in the UI, but not
> for documents or monospace. Please note that the FFE has not yet been
> accepted.
>
> Cheers, Rick

It was also the plan of record to have the font in the archive about a month
earlier than we actually got it.

Scott K

Personally I'm welcome to the change and think the font does look great.  The timing could really be improved a lot though.

I do however have a concern that RC images really aren't being treated as "Candidates" for gold.  People are planning uploads to main as though they can still rely on another image spin for final.

"and will only be allowed for very high-priority showstopper bugs that might justify delaying the release"

I don't get the impression that a lot of the uploads happening after RC was spun would realistically hit that criteria listed above.

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Re: FFE: Setting Ubuntu Font As Default

Scott Kitterman-3


"Mario Limonciello" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Hi All:
>
>On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 14:06, Scott Kitterman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, September 30, 2010 02:14:03 pm Rick Spencer wrote:
>> > Hi all ...
>> >
>> > I want to bring this FFE to attention:
>> > https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/649616
>> >
>> > It is my understanding that using the Ubuntu font by default has been
>> > the plan of record for some weeks or months. None the less, given the
>> > time lines involved, I thought it best to raise wider awareness that we
>> > are preparing this change as it is after even RC Freeze.
>> >
>> > The change will set the Ubuntu font to be the default in the UI, but not
>> > for documents or monospace. Please note that the FFE has not yet been
>> > accepted.
>> >
>> > Cheers, Rick
>>
>> It was also the plan of record to have the font in the archive about a
>> month
>> earlier than we actually got it.
>>
>> Scott K
>>
>> Personally I'm welcome to the change and think the font does look great.
> The timing could really be improved a lot though.
>
>I do however have a concern that RC images really aren't being treated as
>"Candidates" for gold.  People are planning uploads to main as though they
>can still rely on another image spin for final.
>
>According to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseCandidate
>"and will only be allowed for very high-priority showstopper bugs that might
>justify delaying the release"
>
>I don't get the impression that a lot of the uploads happening after RC was
>spun would realistically hit that criteria listed above.
>
There is all of or most of (not sure which) a new version of Gnome in the queue for review,  so most definitely not.

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Re: FFE: Setting Ubuntu Font As Default

Scott Ritchie
In reply to this post by Scott Kitterman-3
On 09/30/2010 12:06 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:

> On Thursday, September 30, 2010 02:14:03 pm Rick Spencer wrote:
>> Hi all ...
>>
>> I want to bring this FFE to attention:
>> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/649616
>>
>> It is my understanding that using the Ubuntu font by default has been
>> the plan of record for some weeks or months. None the less, given the
>> time lines involved, I thought it best to raise wider awareness that we
>> are preparing this change as it is after even RC Freeze.
>>
>> The change will set the Ubuntu font to be the default in the UI, but not
>> for documents or monospace. Please note that the FFE has not yet been
>> accepted.
>>
>> Cheers, Rick
>
> It was also the plan of record to have the font in the archive about a month
> earlier than we actually got it.  
>
> Scott K
>

Agreed.  Don't do it.

We have these policies because they're good software engineering
practice.  It matters that, for instance, the screenshots in the
documentation actually look like the operating system.

Scott Ritchie

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Re: FFE: Setting Ubuntu Font As Default

Alan Pope-2
On 1 October 2010 10:07, Scott Ritchie <[hidden email]> wrote:
> We have these policies because they're good software engineering
> practice.  It matters that, for instance, the screenshots in the
> documentation actually look like the operating system.
>

Which screenshots would those be?

As far as I know the official documentation doesn't actually have any
screenshots.

Al.

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Re: FFE: Setting Ubuntu Font As Default

Scott Ritchie
On 10/01/2010 02:26 AM, Alan Pope wrote:

> On 1 October 2010 10:07, Scott Ritchie <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> We have these policies because they're good software engineering
>> practice.  It matters that, for instance, the screenshots in the
>> documentation actually look like the operating system.
>>
>
> Which screenshots would those be?
>
> As far as I know the official documentation doesn't actually have any
> screenshots.
>
> Al.

Not just official documentation, but third party stuff.

Regardless the larger problem is that the Ubuntu font is not metric
equivalent to the current font and this will very likely cause parts of
the interface to look different in unintended ways (think something that
wrongly assumed the font now no longer lining up by a couple pixels).

-Scott Ritchie

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Re: FFE: Setting Ubuntu Font As Default

Daniel J Blueman
In reply to this post by Scott Ritchie
On 1 October 2010 10:07, Scott Ritchie <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 09/30/2010 12:06 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>> On Thursday, September 30, 2010 02:14:03 pm Rick Spencer wrote:
>>> Hi all ...
>>>
>>> I want to bring this FFE to attention:
>>> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/649616
>>>
>>> It is my understanding that using the Ubuntu font by default has been
>>> the plan of record for some weeks or months. None the less, given the
>>> time lines involved, I thought it best to raise wider awareness that we
>>> are preparing this change as it is after even RC Freeze.
>>>
>>> The change will set the Ubuntu font to be the default in the UI, but not
>>> for documents or monospace. Please note that the FFE has not yet been
>>> accepted.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Rick
>>
>> It was also the plan of record to have the font in the archive about a month
>> earlier than we actually got it.
>>
>> Scott K
>>
>
> Agreed.  Don't do it.
>
> We have these policies because they're good software engineering
> practice.  It matters that, for instance, the screenshots in the
> documentation actually look like the operating system.
>
> Scott Ritchie

I view this as a valid FFE, otherwise what are FFEs for? (bug fixes
are not FFEs) I see this an important and immediately testable change
to the branding/identity of Ubuntu; change to the Ubuntu branding
after release would look like it shipped incomplete.

It is better software engineering to not blindly apply rules, but be
smart about how/when they are applied (so sticking to them in most
cases).

Daniel
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Re: FFE: Setting Ubuntu Font As Default

Scott Ritchie
On 10/01/2010 03:14 AM, Daniel J Blueman wrote:

> On 1 October 2010 10:07, Scott Ritchie <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 09/30/2010 12:06 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>>> On Thursday, September 30, 2010 02:14:03 pm Rick Spencer wrote:
>>>> Hi all ...
>>>>
>>>> I want to bring this FFE to attention:
>>>> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/649616
>>>>
>>>> It is my understanding that using the Ubuntu font by default has been
>>>> the plan of record for some weeks or months. None the less, given the
>>>> time lines involved, I thought it best to raise wider awareness that we
>>>> are preparing this change as it is after even RC Freeze.
>>>>
>>>> The change will set the Ubuntu font to be the default in the UI, but not
>>>> for documents or monospace. Please note that the FFE has not yet been
>>>> accepted.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers, Rick
>>>
>>> It was also the plan of record to have the font in the archive about a month
>>> earlier than we actually got it.
>>>
>>> Scott K
>>>
>>
>> Agreed.  Don't do it.
>>
>> We have these policies because they're good software engineering
>> practice.  It matters that, for instance, the screenshots in the
>> documentation actually look like the operating system.
>>
>> Scott Ritchie
>
> I view this as a valid FFE, otherwise what are FFEs for? (bug fixes
> are not FFEs) I see this an important and immediately testable change
> to the branding/identity of Ubuntu; change to the Ubuntu branding
> after release would look like it shipped incomplete.
>
> It is better software engineering to not blindly apply rules, but be
> smart about how/when they are applied (so sticking to them in most
> cases).
>
> Daniel

The idea isn't to change the branding after release -- that would be a
bad idea for the same reason doing this so late in the cycle is a bad idea.

The idea is to table it until the next release when we can verify that
the unintended consequences are manageable.

Scott

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Re: FFE: Setting Ubuntu Font As Default

Scott Kitterman-3
On Friday, October 01, 2010 06:58:09 am Scott Ritchie wrote:

> On 10/01/2010 03:14 AM, Daniel J Blueman wrote:
> > On 1 October 2010 10:07, Scott Ritchie <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> On 09/30/2010 12:06 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, September 30, 2010 02:14:03 pm Rick Spencer wrote:
> >>>> Hi all ...
> >>>>
> >>>> I want to bring this FFE to attention:
> >>>> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/64961
> >>>> 6
> >>>>
> >>>> It is my understanding that using the Ubuntu font by default has been
> >>>> the plan of record for some weeks or months. None the less, given the
> >>>> time lines involved, I thought it best to raise wider awareness that
> >>>> we are preparing this change as it is after even RC Freeze.
> >>>>
> >>>> The change will set the Ubuntu font to be the default in the UI, but
> >>>> not for documents or monospace. Please note that the FFE has not yet
> >>>> been accepted.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers, Rick
> >>>
> >>> It was also the plan of record to have the font in the archive about a
> >>> month earlier than we actually got it.
> >>>
> >>> Scott K
> >>
> >> Agreed.  Don't do it.
> >>
> >> We have these policies because they're good software engineering
> >> practice.  It matters that, for instance, the screenshots in the
> >> documentation actually look like the operating system.
> >>
> >> Scott Ritchie
> >
> > I view this as a valid FFE, otherwise what are FFEs for? (bug fixes
> > are not FFEs) I see this an important and immediately testable change
> > to the branding/identity of Ubuntu; change to the Ubuntu branding
> > after release would look like it shipped incomplete.
> >
> > It is better software engineering to not blindly apply rules, but be
> > smart about how/when they are applied (so sticking to them in most
> > cases).
> >
> > Daniel
>
> The idea isn't to change the branding after release -- that would be a
> bad idea for the same reason doing this so late in the cycle is a bad idea.
>
> The idea is to table it until the next release when we can verify that
> the unintended consequences are manageable.
>

Since Robbie Williamson is a member of the release team and he approved it,
it's a valid FFe, so from a process perspective it is clean.  I think it's
also clear that when acting as SABDFL, Mark Shuttleworth doesn't actually need
an FFe approval from the release team anyway.  I'd have preferred a different
choice, but there's no question that this change was legitimately made using
the defined Ubuntu structures.

Scott K

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Re: FFE: Setting Ubuntu Font As Default

Jeremy Bicha
On Oct 1, 2010 8:53 AM, "Jeremy Bicha" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Well there is one part of this FFE that was not fully prepared for. I
> haven't had a chance to check but the change to 11 point font will likely be
> an unexpected UI change for locales that do not have the Ubuntu font
> available.
>
> By the way several post-install guides recomnend setting the pre- Maverick
> UI font to 9 because they thought the default was too big and "ugly".
>
> Jeremy Bicha

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Re: FFE: Setting Ubuntu Font As Default

Martin Pitt-4
In reply to this post by Scott Kitterman-3
Scott Kitterman [2010-09-30 16:29 -0400]:
> There is all of or most of (not sure which) a new version of Gnome
> in the queue for review,  so most definitely not.

I reviewed these this morning, and by and large they just had updated
translations. I saw one fix for a deprecated GTK function, which
looked obvious.

The only nontrivial update was/is the telepathy-glib one, but I
didn't accept it. I guess we should just reject it, unless Chris
Coulson can come up with some pressing reasons?

Martin
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Re: FFE: Setting Ubuntu Font As Default

Jan Claeys-3
In reply to this post by Scott Ritchie
Op vrijdag 01-10-2010 om 02:42 uur [tijdzone -0700], schreef Scott
Ritchie:
> On 10/01/2010 02:26 AM, Alan Pope wrote:
> > On 1 October 2010 10:07, Scott Ritchie <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> We have these policies because they're good software engineering
> >> practice.  It matters that, for instance, the screenshots in the
> >> documentation actually look like the operating system.

> > Which screenshots would those be?
> >
> > As far as I know the official documentation doesn't actually have any
> > screenshots.

> Not just official documentation, but third party stuff.

And I suppose the installer slideshow screenshots are considered
"official" anyway...?


I think any changes that affect the doc or translation teams after the
"freeze" of what they work on (basically the point when they can start
to work for real) should go through mandatory advice by an independent
representative of those teams.  (And by "mandatory advice", I mean by
somebody who has serious pushback-powers... ;) )


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Re: FFE: Setting Ubuntu Font As Default

Luke Faraone
In reply to this post by Daniel J Blueman
On 10/01/2010 06:14 AM, Daniel J Blueman wrote:
> I view this as a valid FFE, otherwise what are FFEs for? (bug fixes
> are not FFEs) I see this an important and immediately testable change
> to the branding/identity of Ubuntu; change to the Ubuntu branding
> after release would look like it shipped incomplete.

Which would require immediate testing of pretty much every application
on the desktop to make sure there are no problems with the new font.
That's a very large testing burden 6 days before release.

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Re: FFE: Setting Ubuntu Font As Default

Mackenzie Morgan-3
In reply to this post by Jan Claeys-3
On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 12:25 AM, Jan Claeys <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I think any changes that affect the doc or translation teams after the
> "freeze" of what they work on (basically the point when they can start
> to work for real) should go through mandatory advice by an independent
> representative of those teams.  (And by "mandatory advice", I mean by
> somebody who has serious pushback-powers... ;) )

They were among the teams given access to the fonts ahead of time for
that reason.

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