Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

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Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

Bret Busby-2
Hello.

I am running UbuntuMATE 16.04 on at least two different computers.

For a while now, the Software Updater (which reappears daily, due to
using the panel applet) shows a window with the heading "Not all
updates can be installed".

The window does not provide a button "Show details", and, does not
allow me to copy and paste the text that is displayed in the window.

The only options available (apart from simply clicking the cross box,
to close the window, which I have had to do, each time the window
appears, as no other safe option is available) do not provide safe
options whereby I would be confident that whatever it does, will not
harm the system.

Can this be fixed?

--

Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia

..............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992

....................................................

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Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Fri, 18 Aug 2017 05:26:09 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
>The window does not provide a button "Show details", and, does not
>allow me to copy and paste the text that is displayed in the window.

Hi,

you cold open a terminal, to run the following commands

  sudo apt update
  sudo apt full-upgrade
  sudo apt autoremove

and post the commands + their output. Ensure that your MUA
doesn't wrap the lines.

This is not the procedure to fix issues, it's just a procedure to
upgrade and to tidy up, so it might report issues.

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

Karl Auer
In reply to this post by Bret Busby-2
On Fri, 2017-08-18 at 05:26 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
> For a while now, the Software Updater (which reappears daily, due to
> using the panel applet) shows a window with the heading "Not all
> updates can be installed".
>
> The window does not provide a button "Show details", and, does not
> allow me to copy and paste the text that is displayed in the window.
> [...]
> Can this be fixed?

In a terminal window, run these two commands:

   sudo apt-get update
   sudo apt-get upgrade

If the latter wants to install stuff, answer "Y". That should let you
see what's going on. By all means paste the results here if not.

As to the text in the applet not being cut and pasteable, you could
always screenshot it and drop it in pastebin for us to look at...

   https://pastebin.com/

Regards, K.

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Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Fri, 2017-08-18 at 07:51 +1000, Karl Auer wrote:
>    sudo apt-get update
>    sudo apt-get upgrad

It's better to replace

  sudo apt-get upgrad

with

  sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

nowadays replaced by

  sudo apt full-upgrade

I suspect by default the update thingy used by the OP does run
"dist-upgrade"/"full-upgrade" and not "upgrade".


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Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

Colin Law
In reply to this post by Ralf Mardorf-2


On 17 Aug 2017 10:49 p.m., "Ralf Mardorf" <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2017 05:26:09 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
>The window does not provide a button "Show details", and, does not
>allow me to copy and paste the text that is displayed in the window.

Hi,

you cold open a terminal, to run the following commands

  sudo apt update
  sudo apt full-upgrade
  sudo apt autoremove

I am not sure that 16.04 has the full featured apt command so may be better to stick to apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade. 

Colin


and post the commands + their output. Ensure that your MUA
doesn't wrap the lines.

This is not the procedure to fix issues, it's just a procedure to
upgrade and to tidy up, so it might report issues.

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Fri, 18 Aug 2017 07:01:46 +0100, Colin Law wrote:
>I am not sure that 16.04 has the full featured apt command so may be
>better to stick to apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade.

Hi,

I'm 100% sure that the apt commands I posted work correctly.

[root@moonstudio ~]# lsb_release -dc
Description: Ubuntu 16.04.3 LTS
Codename: xenial

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

Colin Law
On 18 August 2017 at 08:40, Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Aug 2017 07:01:46 +0100, Colin Law wrote:
>>I am not sure that 16.04 has the full featured apt command so may be
>>better to stick to apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade.
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm 100% sure that the apt commands I posted work correctly.

That's ok then.

Colin

>
> [root@moonstudio ~]# lsb_release -dc
> Description:    Ubuntu 16.04.3 LTS
> Codename:       xenial
>
> Regards,
> Ralf
>
>
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Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

Bret Busby-2
In reply to this post by Ralf Mardorf-2
On 18/08/2017, Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Aug 2017 05:26:09 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
>>The window does not provide a button "Show details", and, does not
>>allow me to copy and paste the text that is displayed in the window.
>
> Hi,
>
> you cold open a terminal, to run the following commands
>
>   sudo apt update
>   sudo apt full-upgrade
>   sudo apt autoremove
>
> and post the commands + their output. Ensure that your MUA
> doesn't wrap the lines.
>
> This is not the procedure to fix issues, it's just a procedure to
> upgrade and to tidy up, so it might report issues.
>
> Regards,
> Ralf
>

After a crash of Firefox, which destroyed the session, I progressively
shut down the remaining applications and rebooted the system, and,
tried the system upgrade.

I ran
sudo apt update
 which told me that 219 packages can be updated;

"
:~$ sudo apt update
[sudo] password:
Hit:1 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial InRelease
Hit:2 http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu xenial InRelease
Get:3 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial-updates InRelease [102 kB]
Get:4 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial-backports InRelease [102 kB]
Get:5 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial-security InRelease [102 kB]
Fetched 306 kB in 2s (106 kB/s)
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
219 packages can be upgraded. Run 'apt list --upgradable' to see them.
"

My understanding, from the ensuing discussion, is that the next
suggested command;
 sudo apt full-upgrade
leads to a distribution upgrade.

I am using 16.04, which is an LTS version, and, performing a
distribution upgrade, would eliminate the LTS-ness.

In going to the Software Updater, it apparently, no longer allows the
option of choosing which packages to upgrade, and, which to not
upgrade.

Due to a problem encountered with an upgrade from Firefox 53 to 54, on
another computer, and subsequent malware appearing in Firefox,
apparently consequential to that upgrade, I do not trust Firefox after
the version that I am using on this computer, which version, is 53.0.3
(64 bit).

As I can no longer choose which packages are upgraded, and, which are
not, it appears that I can no longer, safely upgrade Ubuntu Linux.

Something has changed, that has removed the choice of which packages
are to be upgraded, and, the change is bad.

--

Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia

..............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992

....................................................

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Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

Oliver Grawert
hi,
Am Montag, den 02.10.2017, 20:22 +0800 schrieb Bret Busby:

> My understanding, from the ensuing discussion, is that the next
> suggested command;
>  sudo apt full-upgrade
> leads to a distribution upgrade.
>

then you understood wrongly... 
"apt upgrade" does a full upgrade of installed packages... including
installing missing packages to fulfill new dependencies...

in apt-get this function was split out into the "dist-upgrade" command,
while "upgrade" only upgraded existing packages and held back the world
when needing additional new dependencies ... this latter behaviour led
for example to people being stuck on old kernels with security holes
when they only ever used "apt-get upgrade" ... 

the new "full-upgrade" will simply additionally also remove packages
which the normal "upgrade" function would not do.

> I am using 16.04, which is an LTS version, and, performing a
> distribution upgrade, would eliminate the LTS-ness.

there is not and has never been any apt or apt-get command that could
lead to a full release to release upgrade without you doing additional
changes manually ... like changing the content of the souces.list file
or using the release upgrader tool (update-manager on the desktop or
do-release-upgrade on cmdline). this has not changed ...

ciao
        olli
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Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Bret Busby-2
On 2 October 2017 at 14:22, Bret Busby <[hidden email]> wrote:

> My understanding, from the ensuing discussion, is that the next
> suggested command;
>  sudo apt full-upgrade
> leads to a distribution upgrade.

No it does not. You understand incorrectly.

Do you not think it would be silly for the designers of an OS to make
it possible to move from a supported release to a potentially
unsupported (or short-term) one _accidentally_ by a single command?

Does that seem like a sensible thing to do?

I submit that no, it does not, and no Linux I know of does that.
Rolling-release distros, yes, but then there are no stable/unstable
versions, so it is academic.

I suggest that you think about such beliefs or assumptions and
consider whether they seem sensible or not -- as a way of verifying
your own beliefs and prompting you to check. It's how I test my own.

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Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

Bret Busby-2
On 04/10/2017, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2 October 2017 at 14:22, Bret Busby <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> My understanding, from the ensuing discussion, is that the next
>> suggested command;
>>  sudo apt full-upgrade
>> leads to a distribution upgrade.
>
> No it does not. You understand incorrectly.
>
> Do you not think it would be silly for the designers of an OS to make
> it possible to move from a supported release to a potentially
> unsupported (or short-term) one _accidentally_ by a single command?
>
> Does that seem like a sensible thing to do?
>
> I submit that no, it does not, and no Linux I know of does that.
> Rolling-release distros, yes, but then there are no stable/unstable
> versions, so it is academic.
>
> I suggest that you think about such beliefs or assumptions and
> consider whether they seem sensible or not -- as a way of verifying
> your own beliefs and prompting you to check. It's how I test my own.
>
> --
> Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: [hidden email] • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: [hidden email]
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This message was posted;

"
--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Colin Law <[hidden email]>
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2017 07:01:46 +0100
Subject: Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04
To: "Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions"
<[hidden email]>

On 17 Aug 2017 10:49 p.m., "Ralf Mardorf" <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Aug 2017 05:26:09 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
>The window does not provide a button "Show details", and, does not
>allow me to copy and paste the text that is displayed in the window.

Hi,

you cold open a terminal, to run the following commands

  sudo apt update
  sudo apt full-upgrade
  sudo apt autoremove


I am not sure that 16.04 has the full featured apt command so may be better
to stick to apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade.

Colin


and post the commands + their output. Ensure that your MUA
doesn't wrap the lines.

This is not the procedure to fix issues, it's just a procedure to
upgrade and to tidy up, so it might report issues.

Regards,
Ralf
"

and my understanding is that
apt-get dist-upgrade
upgrades the distribution, or version, to the latest current one;
hence, 16.04 to 17.10 ; LTS to non-LTS.

In the context of all of the material in that message, it inferred,
or, implied, that
apt-get dist-upgrade = apt full-upgrade

Simple me, simple logic.


--

Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia

..............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992

....................................................

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Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

MR ZenWiz
On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Bret Busby <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> and my understanding is that
> apt-get dist-upgrade
> upgrades the distribution, or version, to the latest current one;
> hence, 16.04 to 17.10 ; LTS to non-LTS.
>
> In the context of all of the material in that message, it inferred,
> or, implied, that
> apt-get dist-upgrade = apt full-upgrade
>
> Simple me, simple logic.
>
You're misreading the command - dist-upgrade mean to upgrade the
current distribution (in-place, not to a newer one).

See https://askubuntu.com/questions/194651/why-use-apt-get-upgrade-instead-of-apt-get-dist-upgrade

MR

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Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

MR ZenWiz
On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:56 AM, MR ZenWiz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Bret Busby <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> and my understanding is that
>> apt-get dist-upgrade
>> upgrades the distribution, or version, to the latest current one;
>> hence, 16.04 to 17.10 ; LTS to non-LTS.
>>
>> In the context of all of the material in that message, it inferred,
>> or, implied, that
>> apt-get dist-upgrade = apt full-upgrade
>>
>> Simple me, simple logic.
>>
> You're misreading the command - dist-upgrade mean to upgrade the
> current distribution (in-place, not to a newer one).
>
> See https://askubuntu.com/questions/194651/why-use-apt-get-upgrade-instead-of-apt-get-dist-upgrade
>
> MR
Also see https://askubuntu.com/questions/215267/will-apt-get-dist-upgrade-upgrade-my-system-to-newer-version

Google is your friend.

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Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

Colin Law
In reply to this post by Bret Busby-2
On 4 October 2017 at 19:25, Bret Busby <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> and my understanding is that
> apt-get dist-upgrade
> upgrades the distribution, or version, to the latest current one;
> hence, 16.04 to 17.10 ; LTS to non-LTS.
>
> In the context of all of the material in that message, it inferred,
> or, implied, that
> apt-get dist-upgrade = apt full-upgrade

If you re-read the thread you will see that (contrary to my earlier
statement) these commands are not equivalent and neither will upgrade
to the next version of the distribution. If you want to do that the
command, I think, is
do-release-upgrade

Colin

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Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Bret Busby-2
On 4 October 2017 at 20:25, Bret Busby <[hidden email]> wrote:

Your quoting is badly broken and I cannot tell to what you are referring.

> and my understanding is that
> apt-get dist-upgrade
> upgrades the distribution, or version, to the latest current one;
> hence, 16.04 to 17.10 ; LTS to non-LTS.

No. No it does not.

> In the context of all of the material in that message, it inferred,

To infer means to draw a conclusion on the basis of evidence. I think
you mean "it implied".

> or, implied, that
> apt-get dist-upgrade = apt full-upgrade

That is correct.

Both "apt-get dist-upgrade" and "apt full-upgrade" mean the same. They
both instruct APT to upgrade all the packages in your installation to
the latest available versions *of that release*. Neither will upgrade
to a newer release of Ubuntu.

> Simple me, simple logic.

Remember the kid's joke:

"Don't assume. Remember, when you assume, you make an 'ass' out of 'u'
and 'me'."

You have jumped, from inadequate evidence, to an incorrect conclusion.
Don't try to defend it, just learn from it and move on.

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Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

Bret Busby-2
On 05/10/2017, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 4 October 2017 at 20:25, Bret Busby <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Your quoting is badly broken and I cannot tell to what you are referring.
>
>> and my understanding is that
>> apt-get dist-upgrade
>> upgrades the distribution, or version, to the latest current one;
>> hence, 16.04 to 17.10 ; LTS to non-LTS.
>
> No. No it does not.
>
>> In the context of all of the material in that message, it inferred,
>
> To infer means to draw a conclusion on the basis of evidence. I think
> you mean "it implied".
>
>> or, implied, that
>> apt-get dist-upgrade = apt full-upgrade
>
> That is correct.
>
> Both "apt-get dist-upgrade" and "apt full-upgrade" mean the same. They
> both instruct APT to upgrade all the packages in your installation to
> the latest available versions *of that release*. Neither will upgrade
> to a newer release of Ubuntu.
>
>> Simple me, simple logic.
>
> Remember the kid's joke:
>
> "Don't assume. Remember, when you assume, you make an 'ass' out of 'u'
> and 'me'."
>
> You have jumped, from inadequate evidence, to an incorrect conclusion.
> Don't try to defend it, just learn from it and move on.
>

So, you make weird gratuitous derogatory personal comments, without
contributing to fixing the problem.

The problem remains that I can not now update the system without
updating all packages.

Previously, the option was available to do a system update, without
updating all of the packages, involving the option of deselecting
packages to be updated. That option is no longer available.

Even, in trying synaptic, that no longer allows individual packages to
be deselected - the option is now, "greyed out". If a single package
update had been tied in with updating another package, that would have
been displayed, with an option to also deselect the associated package
from being updated.

But, those options are now, no longer available.

It is now "If you want to update these packages, we will force you to
make these other unrelated package changes, regardless of the harm
that we will cause to you and your system".


--

Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia

..............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992

....................................................

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Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

Liam Proven
On 6 October 2017 at 18:54, Bret Busby <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So, you make weird gratuitous derogatory personal comments, without
> contributing to fixing the problem.

I am attempting to show you how to ask smarter questions and avoid
making the mistakes that you have made so far.

If you interpret this as an attack, that is up to you, but it will be
very difficult to learn anything from anyone if you see it as an
attack when someone corrects you.

> The problem remains that I can not now update the system without
> updating all packages.

``sudo apt update''

This will update all your installed packages to the newest versions.
It will not install new packages, or remove anything.

This is AIUI and TTBOMK. I welcome correction.

> Previously, the option was available to do a system update, without
> updating all of the packages, involving the option of deselecting
> packages to be updated. That option is no longer available.

It is still there.

However, if you want a full system upgrade, e.g. to the latest kernel,
which is very important for security and for fault-fixing, then
sometimes, it will need to install _new_ packages and that will
sometimes unavoidably mean _removing_ the old versions.

That is what

``sudo apt full-upgrade'' does.

These are basically the new shorter, more comprehensible equivalents to the old

``sudo apt-get upgrade''

and

``sudo apt-get dist-upgrade''

commands.

But if you prefer, you can still use the old commands. They still work fine.


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Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

Paul Smith-2
In reply to this post by Bret Busby-2
On Sat, 2017-10-07 at 00:54 +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
> The problem remains that I can not now update the system without
> updating all packages.
>
> Previously, the option was available to do a system update, without
> updating all of the packages, involving the option of deselecting
> packages to be updated. That option is no longer available.

It would be helpful if you could define more clearly what you mean by
"update the system".

From your previous posts it seems that you want to update the packages
on your system but you don't want to upgrade to a newer Ubuntu release.
 That is easily accomplished via "sudo apt upgrade", or "sudo apt dist-
upgrade" or "sudo apt full-upgrade" if you prefer.  As already
described, none of these things will upgrade you to a newer Ubuntu
release.

Here it seems like what you want instead is to upgrade one specific
package or set of packages, without upgrading other packages that may
have upgrades available for your Ubuntu release.

If you just want one package (and its prerequisites/dependencies) to be
upgraded, you could try "sudo apt install <pkg>".

Else maybe you can provide a more detailed explanation of what you want
to do.

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Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

Wynona Stacy Lockwood
In reply to this post by Bret Busby-2
On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Bret Busby <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The problem remains that I can not now update the system without
> updating all packages.

That's laughably false. NO ONE is forcing you to use any particular
tool in this way. You have options. Just off the top of my head, one
way to do this is, you could upgrade the packages by name, one at a
time, or all at once via the command line by explicitly specifying
them. Now one says you must use synaptic, which is deprecated anyway.
No one is forcing you to use apt-get upgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade.
Why not simply specify the packages you want to update via `sudo
apt-get install $FOO` where $FOO is a package, or a list of packages
separated by spaces?

See https://linux.die.net/man/8/apt-get

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Re: Faulty Software Updater on 16.04

Ralf Mardorf-2
In reply to this post by Paul Smith-2
On Fri, 06 Oct 2017 13:27:00 -0400, Paul Smith wrote:
>Else maybe you can provide a more detailed explanation of what you want
>to do.

If running the commands should fail, it would be helpful to post the
commands + their complete output ;).

Perhaps "--fix-broken" does help, perhaps it's required to "unhold" a
package, perhaps pinning needs to be changed, perhaps, perhaps,
perhaps.


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