Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

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Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

Volker Wysk
Hi..

That filesystem corruption of mine has quickly expanded. It has expanded to
the boot partition and the LVM metadata, last.

I've booted into memtest86+, but have aborted after an hour, in order to let
it run overnight. But then I couldn't boot the machine any longer. Going into
rescue mode revealed that the cryptsetup binary (same as before) looks
corrupt. Also, the volume group wasn't found.

Before that, I've tried to log in to KDE. This failed with a message, that
some KDE file can't be executed. Seems garbage too.

This corruption seems to expand quickly and appear at a very low level. Such
as the hard disk itself or the SSD.

Now I've installed Ubuntu 19.04.2 and am in the process of unpacking my
backup. I have a recent backup, but I've still lost some data. That restore
takes about 20 hours... Still running.

So far, I haven't seen any signs of corruption in the new 19.04 system.

Bye
Volker



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Re: Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

Little Girl
Hey there,

>That filesystem corruption of mine has quickly expanded. It has
>expanded to the boot partition and the LVM metadata, last.

At this point, I'd strongly suspect the power supply as the source of the trouble.

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Re: Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

Volker Wysk
Am Donnerstag, 27. Juni 2019, 18:29:25 CEST schrieb Little Girl:
> Hey there,
>
> >That filesystem corruption of mine has quickly expanded. It has
> >expanded to the boot partition and the LVM metadata, last.
>
> At this point, I'd strongly suspect the power supply as the source of the
> trouble.

A defect power supply unit?

It has 550 Watts and is one and a half year old. I cost 79 €. I explicitly
wanted a quality part.

And it appears to work now...

When the corruption starts again, I'll go to that computer shop and make them
swap the power supply.

Puzzled,
Volker



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Re: Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

Compdoc@hotrodpc.com
On 6/27/19 10:51 AM, Volker Wysk wrote:

> It has 550 Watts and is one and a half year old. I cost 79 €. I explicitly
> wanted a quality part.

What brand is it? I have replaced hundreds of bad power supplies. I
consider them as 'consumables,' because the poorly made ones will have
to be replaced after a year. Even certain Dell PSUs have the problem.

And don't guess about it. Its easy to see if the PSU is failing. There
will failed capacitors inside the PSU. I check this on every system I
service: (as shown in this video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUrVOK3VgJw

Many will consider opening the PSU dangerous, and you should not attempt
it, however you might be able to peer inside through the fan and vent
openings.

You only need to look at the capacitors that are located near where the
power cables that feed to the system are soldered into the PSU's circuit
board, as show in the video.

In that video his caps are bulging and leaking, but they don't have to
be leaking. Any bulge at all is bad. They need to be flat on top.
There's even a wikipage with pics of many failed caps:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Anyway, should you need to replace the PSU, buy a name-brand, 80+
certified PSU. Those will last 2 to 3 years, or more.





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Re: Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

Mike Marchywka
On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 11:49:15AM -0600, compdoc wrote:
> On 6/27/19 10:51 AM, Volker Wysk wrote:
>
> > It has 550 Watts and is one and a half year old. I cost 79 €. I explicitly
> > wanted a quality part.
>
> What brand is it? I have replaced hundreds of bad power supplies. I consider
> them as 'consumables,' because the poorly made ones will have to be replaced
> after a year. Even certain Dell PSUs have the problem.

Does this seem to be true across geography? That is, are you sure
it is not a problem with utility quality or running in hot or dusty
settings ?

>
> And don't guess about it. Its easy to see if the PSU is failing. There will
> failed capacitors inside the PSU. I check this on every system I service:
> (as shown in this video)
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUrVOK3VgJw
>
> Many will consider opening the PSU dangerous, and you should not attempt it,
> however you might be able to peer inside through the fan and vent openings.

mike marchywka
306 charles cox
canton GA 30115
USA, Earth
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Re: Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

Little Girl
In reply to this post by Volker Wysk
Hey there,

Volker Wysk wrote:
>Am Donnerstag, 27. Juni 2019, 18:29:25 CEST schrieb Little Girl:

>> >That filesystem corruption of mine has quickly expanded. It has
>> >expanded to the boot partition and the LVM metadata, last.  
>>
>> At this point, I'd strongly suspect the power supply as the source
>> of the trouble.  
>
>A defect power supply unit?

Yes, that's what I'm thinking might be happening.

>It has 550 Watts and is one and a half year old. I cost 79 €. I
>explicitly wanted a quality part.
>
>And it appears to work now...

Sometimes they fail even if they're considered good quality power
supplies. The worst part is that they don't always fail completely,
but just sporadically cause trouble. We went through several computer
parts, one after the other, before realizing that the culprit was the
power supply.

>When the corruption starts again, I'll go to that computer shop and
>make them swap the power supply.

You could have them test it or follow the instructions in compdoc's
message for peering through the openings in the power supply to see
if the capacitors inside the power supply are bulging.

Also, here are all kinds of pages on failing power supplies so you can
take a look and see if it seems like the power supply might be
causing your issues:

https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=computer+power+supply+failure+symptoms&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Last, but not least, if the issue is the power supply and you end up
replacing it, I would strongly recommend also replacing any parts that
were affected by it.

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Re: Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

ubuntu-users mailing list
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 15:44:12 -0400, Little Girl wrote:
>You could have them test it or follow the instructions in compdoc's
>message for peering through the openings in the power supply to see
>if the capacitors inside the power supply are bulging.

This usually is due to voltage undersized capacitors used by a lot of
switching power supplies. FWIW the capacitor plague was 12 years ago,
believe me, nowadays it's more likely a voltage issue, an intended
predetermined breaking point, than bad produced capacitors.

However, to assume that a switching power supply will work sometimes
and won't work other times and that this will continue for a long time,
is unlikely, if the cause are the capacitors, since in this case very
soon the switching power supply completely stops working.

>Last, but not least, if the issue is the power supply and you end up
>replacing it, I would strongly recommend also replacing any parts that
>were affected by it.

Just replace the capacitors and use some intended for higher voltage
or, if you or nobody you know has got the skills to replace the
capacitors, buy a new power supply. Yes, it is possible that other
hardware is damaged, too and it's even possible that such damaged
hardware could damage a new power supply. It's possible, but it's far
from likely.


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Re: Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

Gene Heskett-2
In reply to this post by Compdoc@hotrodpc.com
On Thursday 27 June 2019 13:49:15 compdoc wrote:

> On 6/27/19 10:51 AM, Volker Wysk wrote:
> > It has 550 Watts and is one and a half year old. I cost 79 €. I
> > explicitly wanted a quality part.
>
> What brand is it? I have replaced hundreds of bad power supplies. I
> consider them as 'consumables,' because the poorly made ones will have
> to be replaced after a year. Even certain Dell PSUs have the problem.
>
> And don't guess about it. Its easy to see if the PSU is failing. There
> will failed capacitors inside the PSU. I check this on every system I
> service: (as shown in this video)
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUrVOK3VgJw

That supply has more bad caps than what was pointed out.

>
> Many will consider opening the PSU dangerous, and you should not
> attempt it, however you might be able to peer inside through the fan
> and vent openings.
>
> You only need to look at the capacitors that are located near where
> the power cables that feed to the system are soldered into the PSU's
> circuit board, as show in the video.
>
> In that video his caps are bulging and leaking, but they don't have to
> be leaking. Any bulge at all is bad. They need to be flat on top.
> There's even a wikipage with pics of many failed caps:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
>
> Anyway, should you need to replace the PSU, buy a name-brand, 80+
> certified PSU. Those will last 2 to 3 years, or more.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

Volker Wysk
In reply to this post by Compdoc@hotrodpc.com
Am Donnerstag, 27. Juni 2019, 19:49:15 CEST schrieb compdoc:
> On 6/27/19 10:51 AM, Volker Wysk wrote:
> > It has 550 Watts and is one and a half year old. I cost 79 €. I explicitly
> > wanted a quality part.
>
> What brand is it? I have replaced hundreds of bad power supplies. I
> consider them as 'consumables,' because the poorly made ones will have
> to be replaced after a year. Even certain Dell PSUs have the problem.

It's a Enermax Tiathlor Eco (or "Enermax Tiathlor Modular").


> And don't guess about it. Its easy to see if the PSU is failing. There
> will failed capacitors inside the PSU. I check this on every system I
> service: (as shown in this video)
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUrVOK3VgJw
>
> Many will consider opening the PSU dangerous, and you should not attempt
> it, however you might be able to peer inside through the fan and vent
> openings.

Uh-oh...  Removing the PSU and open it, that's what I rather don't want to
do...

 

> You only need to look at the capacitors that are located near where the
> power cables that feed to the system are soldered into the PSU's circuit
> board, as show in the video.
>
> In that video his caps are bulging and leaking, but they don't have to
> be leaking. Any bulge at all is bad. They need to be flat on top.
> There's even a wikipage with pics of many failed caps:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
>
> Anyway, should you need to replace the PSU, buy a name-brand, 80+
> certified PSU. Those will last 2 to 3 years, or more.

What's that certification? What do I need to ask for? ("80+"?)

Thanks
Volker




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Re: Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

Compdoc@hotrodpc.com
On 6/28/19 2:05 AM, Volker Wysk wrote:

> What's that certification? What do I need to ask for? ("80+"?)

80+, or 80 plus. It stands for efficiency, and they use colors to show
quality. The cheapest is 80+ white (or no color,) then there's 80+
Bronze, Silver, and Gold. Each more expensive than the other.

By the way, if the motherboard is old enough, it can have bad capacitors
too. It was a very common problem for a while. If any caps are rounded
on top, get a new motherboard.




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Re: Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Volker Wysk
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 18:19, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi..
>
> That filesystem corruption of mine has quickly expanded. It has expanded to
> the boot partition and the LVM metadata, last.

I have not attempted to contribute to this thread because I am
basically scared off by stuff like LVM.

I just wanted to ask if you would consider switching to something much
simpler? Plain MBR partitions, ext4, no LVM, no RAID, nothing?

/ on SSD
/home and swap on HD

Nothing else.

This is how I do it and it still works very well in 2019...

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Re: Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

Compdoc@hotrodpc.com
In reply to this post by Mike Marchywka
On 6/27/19 12:00 PM, Mike Marchywka wrote:

> Does this seem to be true across geography? That is, are you sure
> it is not a problem with utility quality or running in hot or dusty
> settings ?
Poor power, or dust and bad cooling fans can cause problems, but failing
capacitors are universal.

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Re: Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

Compdoc@hotrodpc.com
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On 6/28/19 6:09 AM, Liam Proven wrote:

> I just wanted to ask if you would consider switching to something much
> simpler? Plain MBR partitions, ext4, no LVM, no RAID, nothing?
That's how I do it as well. LVM is too complicated for me, and not all
utilities work with it. However, Ubuntu uses it when you install with
encrypted directories.

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Re: Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

Liam Proven
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 at 14:19, compdoc <[hidden email]> wrote:

> That's how I do it as well. LVM is too complicated for me, and not all
> utilities work with it. However, Ubuntu uses it when you install with
> encrypted directories.

Oh yes -- I meant to say, no crypto, either.

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Re: Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

ubuntu-users mailing list
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:09:39 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:
>Plain MBR partitions, ext4, no LVM, no RAID

This is how my machine is set up to work. Maybe GPT is ok, too, I don't
know, up to 2 TiB per drive, MBR does the job.

However, the OP should not randomly buy new hardware.
Replacing the CMOS battery that does cost less than 1,-€ and could
make a big difference and re-plugging the HDD and SSD cables would be
the only hardware related things, I would do. Enter the BIOS and check
if the voltage is ok. Using a multimeter, while the power supply isn't
under load is useless.


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Re: Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

Volker Wysk
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
Am Freitag, 28. Juni 2019, 14:09:39 CEST schrieb Liam Proven:

> On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 18:19, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi..
> >
> > That filesystem corruption of mine has quickly expanded. It has expanded
> > to
> > the boot partition and the LVM metadata, last.
>
> I have not attempted to contribute to this thread because I am
> basically scared off by stuff like LVM.
>
> I just wanted to ask if you would consider switching to something much
> simpler? Plain MBR partitions, ext4, no LVM, no RAID, nothing?
>
> / on SSD
> /home and swap on HD
>
> Nothing else.
>
> This is how I do it and it still works very well in 2019...

Well, I want encryption of the whole system. This can easily be set up with
the Ubuntu installer. It entails the usage of LVM.

LVM is also needed for the LVM Cache/dm-cache, which I use to speed up the
whole system with (/ and /home as well). It have a 500 GB SSD, and it works
really well. It's basically SSD speed in the whole 4 TB HDD.

Or should I say "worked really well"? The reason for that drive corruption is
still unknown.

I don't consider switching to something simpler (yet), now that the setup is
finished and working. I've spend much time in finding out how to do it, and
have finally made it.

By the way, LVM is rather simple and logical.

Happy hacking,
Volker



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Re: Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

Compdoc@hotrodpc.com
In reply to this post by ubuntu-users mailing list
On 6/28/19 6:45 AM, Ralf Mardorf via ubuntu-users wrote:

> Replacing the CMOS battery that does cost less than 1,-€

New CMOS batteries should read about 3.3 volts with meter. But any of
them that read 3 volts or higher are still good. Only replace them after
they drop below 3 volts.



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Re: Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

ubuntu-users mailing list
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:46:30 -0600, compdoc wrote:
>On 6/28/19 6:45 AM, Ralf Mardorf via ubuntu-users wrote:
>
>> Replacing the CMOS battery that does cost less than 1,-€  
>
>New CMOS batteries should read about 3.3 volts with meter. But any of
>them that read 3 volts or higher are still good. Only replace them
>after they drop below 3 volts.

Measuring voltage without load is meaningless, you need to apply a
resistor to the battery. However, most of the times I'm working on an
opened PC, I preventively replace the battery. Why not replacing a
battery that is still good, when you anyway do something on the PC,
instead of waiting until it fails in the most unpleasant moment?
Sustainability and environmentalism might be reasons, but regarding the
CMOS battery and the issues it could cause, those reasons aren't good
enough for me. What looks like a broken mobo, power supply, hard
disc, often is just a weak battery.


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Re: Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

Compdoc@hotrodpc.com

On 6/28/19 8:16 AM, Ralf Mardorf via ubuntu-users wrote:
> Measuring voltage without load is meaningless, you need to apply a
> resistor to the battery. However, most of the times I'm working on an
> opened PC, I preventively replace the battery. Why not replacing a
> battery that is still good, when you anyway do something on the PC,
> instead of waiting until it fails in the most unpleasant moment?

CMOS chips can run on one of those batteries for 3 to 5 years. Sometimes
longer. Trying to emulate that kind of tiny load is meaningless. There
virtually is no load. Its all about the voltage remaining. As with power
supplies and hard drives, I've learned to only replace things when I can
see or verify are actually bad. But that's just me.


> Sustainability and environmentalism might be reasons, but regarding the
> CMOS battery and the issues it could cause, those reasons aren't good
> enough for me. What looks like a broken mobo, power supply, hard
> disc, often is just a weak battery.

In repairing and maintaining business computer systems that run 24/7 for
the last 15 years, I've never found a CMOS battery that causes the
problems you describe.

When the batteries die, the CMOS forgets it settings and reverts to
defaults. Many people use the defaults as normal settings, and board
makers have learned to set things like enabling AHCI as default. That
wasnt always the case.

It's possible that default settings can cause problems for odd cards and
devices that are installed in a particular machine, so they require
certain settings. That might be a problem.



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Re: Filesystem corruption - hard disk exploded!

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Volker Wysk
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 at 15:01, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Well, I want encryption of the whole system.
[...]

You could have just said "no", you know. :-)


> and it works
> really well.

Yeah, I don't think it does!

> By the way, LVM is rather simple and logical.

I document things like this for a living, and before I did that, I
used to implement servers for significant mission-critical systems,
among other things.

In my professional opinion: no, it isn't.

Long ago, >20y ago, I bench-tested systems for a living. This is the
first time I started studying filesystems, partitioning systems and so
on, and writing about them. This is around the time that things like
FAT with long filenames, FAT32 and so on started to appear. My systems
had to share files between DOS, Win3, Win9x, NT and MacOS. I therefore
had to become an expert.

A hobby of mine was to point out in print how companies has supplied
systems with inefficient disk layouts.

Occasionally an angry supplier or vendor would come to me and complain
about such things. They would talk about things like how putting swap
on the outer cylinders of a drive caused a performance drop and other
theoretical considerations.

It gave me considerable pleasure to set up demonstration systems and
prove them wrong, to their face.

Things have changed considerably and I no longer consider myself an
expert in this, merely well-informed.

As such:

I think what you are doing sounds gratuitously and pointlessly
overcomplicated and likely to cause problems.

As it is doing.

Just saying...

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