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Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

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Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

Paula Graham
This might be of interest, there's clearly already a consultancy
project assessing barriers to adoption of OSS in the civil service - as
I thought, these aren't trivial. It could make sense to talk to the
OSSG about any projected event? Anyway, I'm going to attend one of
these meetings.

Barry - I'd like to go to the first one on 22 Feb - which is the day
you arrive in London. Need to organise something as it starts half an
hour after your train arrives!

Paula

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: *Mark Elkins* <[hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]>>
Date: 2011/2/3
Subject: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM
Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11
To: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>




Two events are being hosted by the Open Source Specialist Group (OSSG)
http://ossg.bcs.org that considers adoption of Open Source across HM
Government. These will be held at the BCS Central London Offices, First
Floor, The Davidson Building, 5 Southampton Street, London WC2E 7HA
(http://www.bcs.org/upload/pdf/london-office-guide.pdf)) on Tuesday 22nd
February 2011, and Tuesday 1st March 2011 both from 1800 to 2100.


These bookable events are *free and open* to all with buffet and
refreshments. To book a place to attend please contact Mark Elkins via
[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>


A member of the Home Office IT Team is undertaking research in
conjunction with the Cabinet Office to:

(1) try and understand why Open Source is not represented better across
HMG and the wider public sector, and

(2) identify and address barriers to adoption of Open Source across HMG
and the wider public sector.

*
*

*Context*

1. The Coalition Government believes Open Source Software can deliver
significant short and long term cost savings across Government IT.

2. Typical benefits of Open Source include lower procurement prices, no
license costs, interoperability, easier integration and customisation,
compliance with open technology and data standards giving autonomy over
your own information and freedom from vendor lock in.

3. OSS is not currently widely used in Government IT, and the leading
systems integrators for Government Departments do not routinely consider
open source software for IT solution options, as required by existing
HMG ICT policy.

4. There are significant and wide ranging obstacles to Open Source in
Government. Some of these are lack of procurement guidance, resistance
from suppliers, concerns about license obligations and patent issues,
and a lack of understanding of open source maturity and its development
ecosystem.

*
*

*Debates*

The debates will focus on (1) understanding the barriers to wider
adoption of Open Source across HMG, and (2) potential solutions to these
barriers.

We will aim to have representatives from major IT suppliers to HMG to
help us understand the barriers from their perspective, and to help us
understand how well any proposed solutions might work. The debates
should be more a dialogue with the IT suppliers than amongst OSS supporters.

*
*

*Evening Debate 1 – Tuesday 22nd January*

1. Supplier Challenge – how can we incentivize the traditional IT
suppliers to consider OSS when evaluation software options?

    * Suitable OSS is not currently being considered equally – why?
    * What are the disincentives for IT suppliers? In-house skills. New
      support relationships with OSS vendors and support companies. Any
      others?
    * If they do work with OSS, how can we be sure the cost benefits are
      passed onto customers?

2. Procurement – how can it be better?

    * What are the current obstacles? Do the existing contracts and
      frameworks discourage OSS – if so, how?

3. OSS Assessment Model – working with IT suppliers

    * IT suppliers aren’t very open with how they select software as
      candidates for evaluation – not sustainable when spending
      taxpayers money.
    * We can help make this more transparent by working with them to
      build an assessment model they can sign up to. What would
      suppliers like to include in this assessment ? I have started a
      model to de developed.
    * List of top software per category (virtualisation, monitoring,
      email, collaboration, etc) – needs to be maintained to be useful,
      but will get the ball rolling in current lack of knowledge.

4. Case Studies – evidence of short and long term value for money. Where
are these? Also proven examples of OSS use in high demand, volume or
availability applications.

5. Other Ideas – especially for the next debate.

*
*

*Evening Debate 2 – Tuesday 1st March*

1. Security. OSS is insecure compared to commercial software?

    * By what criteria can we select software to minimise security risks?
    * Does OSS need a different approach to patching?
    * Can we simply use empirical evidence when comparing OSS with
      closed software? Statistics for internet browsers are common –
      published vulnerabilities, known exploits, time to fix
    * Key question for HMG is – all things being equal, open code means
      vulnerabilities can be discovered and exploited before there is
      time to fix

2. Buy-not-Build. Can OSS actually benefit HMG because HMG doesn’t want
custom or re-engineered software?

    * HMG generally asks IT suppliers to build systems from COTS
      components and minimise customisation and re-engineering – it
      wasn’t want to maintain special code because of cost and risk. So
      does a significant benefit of OSS not apply to HMG?

3. Legal advice for OSS

    * OSS has some unique legal aspects compared with commercial
      software – where to get advice? Myths around legal obstacles and
      obligations are going unchallenged.
    * Patents and liability issues are often raised – resolved by major
      OSS suppliers who will shield customers?

4. Long Term Strategy

    * OSS won’t happen overnight.
    * Should we work backwards from insisting on open information
      formats for HMG interactions with the public and other sectors?
      This way the use of open standards compliant software filters back
      into HMG organisations.

5. Other Ideas




_______________________________________________
Ossg-announcements mailing list
[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
http://bcsossg.bioss.sari.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/ossg-announcements






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Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

Chris Rowson

Let us know how you get on. I'm a BCS member, joined the open source specialist group a few months ago but unfortunately I've not had the time to get involved as much as I should do.

The contact details are in the email to make a booking, and it might be interesting for you to let us know if non BCS folk can attend too (although even if not, that's easily remedied my joining!)

Chris (sorry for top posting but using mobile phone)

On 4 Feb 2011 11:14, "gazz" <[hidden email]> wrote:

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Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

Barry Drake-4
In reply to this post by Paula Graham
On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 11:14 +0000, gazz wrote:
> Barry - I'd like to go to the first one on 22 Feb - which is the day
> you arrive in London. Need to organise something as it starts half an
> hour after your train arrives!

My train arrives at St Pancras at 5.00 pm, so if I go straight there, I
can be at the meeting too.  I have e-mailed to book a place.  Is this OK
with you?

It was lovely to meet up with you at the exhibition on Wednesday, and I
am looking forward to working with you.

Kind regards, Barry.

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http://ubuntuadverts.org/


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Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

Paula Graham
Yes, that's good - see you there :)

Paula

On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 17:18 +0000, Barry Drake wrote:
On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 11:14 +0000, gazz wrote:
> Barry - I'd like to go to the first one on 22 Feb - which is the day
> you arrive in London. Need to organise something as it starts half an
> hour after your train arrives! 

My train arrives at St Pancras at 5.00 pm, so if I go straight there, I
can be at the meeting too.  I have e-mailed to book a place.  Is this OK
with you?

It was lovely to meet up with you at the exhibition on Wednesday, and I
am looking forward to working with you.

Kind regards,		Barry.

-- 
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http://ubuntuadverts.org/



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Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

Paula Graham
In reply to this post by Chris Rowson


On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 13:21 +0000, Chris Rowson wrote:
Let us know how you get on. I'm a BCS member, joined the open source specialist group a few months ago but unfortunately I've not had the time to get involved as much as I should do.

The contact details are in the email to make a booking, and it might be interesting for you to let us know if non BCS folk can attend too (although even if not, that's easily remedied my joining!)

Chris (sorry for top posting but using mobile phone)

On 4 Feb 2011 11:14, "gazz" <[hidden email]> wrote:

I've just got confirmation of my registration and I'm not a member so looks like it's open. It should be interesting!

Paula
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Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

alan c-2
In reply to this post by Paula Graham
I am also planning to attend the first one - see you?
alan cocks

On 07/02/11 10:59, gazz wrote:

> Yes, that's good - see you there :)
>
> Paula
>
> On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 17:18 +0000, Barry Drake wrote:
>
>>  On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 11:14 +0000, gazz wrote:
>>  >  Barry - I'd like to go to the first one on 22 Feb - which is the day
>>  >  you arrive in London. Need to organise something as it starts half an
>>  >  hour after your train arrives!
>>
>>  My train arrives at St Pancras at 5.00 pm, so if I go straight there, I
>>  can be at the meeting too.  I have e-mailed to book a place.  Is this OK
>>  with you?
>>
>>  It was lovely to meet up with you at the exhibition on Wednesday, and I
>>  am looking forward to working with you.
>>
>>  Kind regards, Barry.
>>
>>  --
>>  Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team.
>>  http://ubuntuadverts.org/

--
alan cocks
Ubuntu user

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Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

Paula Graham


On Mon, 2011-02-07 at 22:06 +0000, alan c wrote:
I am also planning to attend the first one - see you?
alan cocks

Indeed - see you there :)
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Update 2012- Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

alan c-2
In reply to this post by Paula Graham
On 04/02/11 11:14, gazz wrote:

> This might be of interest, there's clearly already a consultancy
> project assessing barriers to adoption of OSS in the civil service - as
> I thought, these aren't trivial. It could make sense to talk to the
> OSSG about any projected event? Anyway, I'm going to attend one of
> these meetings.
>
> Barry - I'd like to go to the first one on 22 Feb - which is the day
> you arrive in London. Need to organise something as it starts half an
> hour after your train arrives!
>
> Paula
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *Mark Elkins* <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> Date: 2011/2/3
> Subject: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM
> Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11
> To: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>
>
>
> Two events are being hosted by the Open Source Specialist Group (OSSG)
> http://ossg.bcs.org that considers adoption of Open Source across HM
> Government. These will be held at the BCS Central London Offices, First
> Floor, The Davidson Building, 5 Southampton Street, London WC2E 7HA
> (http://www.bcs.org/upload/pdf/london-office-guide.pdf)) on Tuesday 22nd
> February 2011, and Tuesday 1st March 2011 both from 1800 to 2100.
>
>
> These bookable events are *free and open* to all with buffet and
> refreshments. To book a place to attend please contact Mark Elkins via
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>
> A member of the Home Office IT Team is undertaking research in
> conjunction with the Cabinet Office to:
>
> (1) try and understand why Open Source is not represented better across
> HMG and the wider public sector, and
>
> (2) identify and address barriers to adoption of Open Source across HMG
> and the wider public sector.
>
> *
> *
>
> *Context*
>
> 1. The Coalition Government believes Open Source Software can deliver
> significant short and long term cost savings across Government IT.
>
> 2. Typical benefits of Open Source include lower procurement prices, no
> license costs, interoperability, easier integration and customisation,
> compliance with open technology and data standards giving autonomy over
> your own information and freedom from vendor lock in.
>
> 3. OSS is not currently widely used in Government IT, and the leading
> systems integrators for Government Departments do not routinely consider
> open source software for IT solution options, as required by existing
> HMG ICT policy.
>
> 4. There are significant and wide ranging obstacles to Open Source in
> Government. Some of these are lack of procurement guidance, resistance
> from suppliers, concerns about license obligations and patent issues,
> and a lack of understanding of open source maturity and its development
> ecosystem.
>
> *
> *
>
> *Debates*
>
> The debates will focus on (1) understanding the barriers to wider
> adoption of Open Source across HMG, and (2) potential solutions to these
> barriers.
>
> We will aim to have representatives from major IT suppliers to HMG to
> help us understand the barriers from their perspective, and to help us
> understand how well any proposed solutions might work. The debates
> should be more a dialogue with the IT suppliers than amongst OSS supporters.
>
> *
> *
>
> *Evening Debate 1 – Tuesday 22nd January*
>
> 1. Supplier Challenge – how can we incentivize the traditional IT
> suppliers to consider OSS when evaluation software options?
>
>     * Suitable OSS is not currently being considered equally – why?
>     * What are the disincentives for IT suppliers? In-house skills. New
>       support relationships with OSS vendors and support companies. Any
>       others?
>     * If they do work with OSS, how can we be sure the cost benefits are
>       passed onto customers?
>
> 2. Procurement – how can it be better?
>
>     * What are the current obstacles? Do the existing contracts and
>       frameworks discourage OSS – if so, how?
>
> 3. OSS Assessment Model – working with IT suppliers
>
>     * IT suppliers aren’t very open with how they select software as
>       candidates for evaluation – not sustainable when spending
>       taxpayers money.
>     * We can help make this more transparent by working with them to
>       build an assessment model they can sign up to. What would
>       suppliers like to include in this assessment ? I have started a
>       model to de developed.
>     * List of top software per category (virtualisation, monitoring,
>       email, collaboration, etc) – needs to be maintained to be useful,
>       but will get the ball rolling in current lack of knowledge.
>
> 4. Case Studies – evidence of short and long term value for money. Where
> are these? Also proven examples of OSS use in high demand, volume or
> availability applications.
>
> 5. Other Ideas – especially for the next debate.
>
> *
> *
>
> *Evening Debate 2 – Tuesday 1st March*
>
> 1. Security. OSS is insecure compared to commercial software?
>
>     * By what criteria can we select software to minimise security risks?
>     * Does OSS need a different approach to patching?
>     * Can we simply use empirical evidence when comparing OSS with
>       closed software? Statistics for internet browsers are common –
>       published vulnerabilities, known exploits, time to fix
>     * Key question for HMG is – all things being equal, open code means
>       vulnerabilities can be discovered and exploited before there is
>       time to fix
>
> 2. Buy-not-Build. Can OSS actually benefit HMG because HMG doesn’t want
> custom or re-engineered software?
>
>     * HMG generally asks IT suppliers to build systems from COTS
>       components and minimise customisation and re-engineering – it
>       wasn’t want to maintain special code because of cost and risk. So
>       does a significant benefit of OSS not apply to HMG?
>
> 3. Legal advice for OSS
>
>     * OSS has some unique legal aspects compared with commercial
>       software – where to get advice? Myths around legal obstacles and
>       obligations are going unchallenged.
>     * Patents and liability issues are often raised – resolved by major
>       OSS suppliers who will shield customers?
>
> 4. Long Term Strategy
>
>     * OSS won’t happen overnight.
>     * Should we work backwards from insisting on open information
>       formats for HMG interactions with the public and other sectors?
>       This way the use of open standards compliant software filters back
>       into HMG organisations.
>
> 5. Other Ideas
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ossg-announcements mailing list
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> http://bcsossg.bioss.sari.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/ossg-announcements


Update 2012:

Proprietary lobby triumphs in first open standards showdown
http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/public-sector/2012/04/proprietary-lobby-triumphs-in.html
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Re: Update 2012- Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

Norman Silverstone-2
< big snip>

> Update 2012:
>
> Proprietary lobby triumphs in first open standards showdown
> http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/public-sector/2012/04/proprietary-lobby-triumphs-in.html
> --

Is this not yet another example of the ineptness of the present
Government and its subservience to big business.

Norman



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Re: Update 2012- Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

Bruno Girin-2
On 14/04/12 16:13, Norman Silverstone wrote:
> < big snip>
>
>> Update 2012:
>>
>> Proprietary lobby triumphs in first open standards showdown
>> http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/public-sector/2012/04/proprietary-lobby-triumphs-in.html
>> --
> Is this not yet another example of the ineptness of the present
> Government and its subservience to big business.

Not necessarily. It may be as simple as them getting more and louder
feedback from big business, who have the funds to engage in lobbying.

There is a consultation next week in Bristol [1]. I will try to attend
but I'm really not sure I can and I'm not sure I've got the right
arguments. It is essential that this consultation has  number of OSS
people attending it with rational arguments otherwise the government
will only hear one side of the story.

There is also an online consultation on the subject [2]. Once again, it
is essential for us to make our voice heard and to reply to it. So take
10 minutes and make your voice heard.

[1] http://openstandardsroundtable3.eventbrite.co.uk/
[2] http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/

Cheers,

Bruno


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Re: Update 2012- Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

Andrés Muñiz Piniella

----- Mensaje original -----
> On 14/04/12 16:13, Norman Silverstone wrote:
> > < big snip>
> There is also an online consultation on the subject [2]. Once again, it
> is essential for us to make our voice heard and to reply to it. So take
> 10 minutes and make your voice heard.
> [2] http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/

done to the best of my knowledge. I made refernces to fsfe.org of what I did not know.


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Re: Update 2012- Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

alan c-2
In reply to this post by Bruno Girin-2
On 14/04/12 16:41, Bruno Girin wrote:
> them getting more and louder
> feedback from big business, who have the funds to engage in lobbying.

Absolutely! What would you do if your entire basis of an easy revenue
stream became instantly threatened?

Big business will *not* let go, it is not useful to blame the
government, just as it is not useful to blame the captain of a sinking
ship you find yourself on! It may be a *correct* diagnosis of
responsibilty, however, the objective is to get a good outcome.
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Re: Update 2012- Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

Alan Bell-5
In reply to this post by Norman Silverstone-2
On 14/04/12 16:13, Norman Silverstone wrote:

> <  big snip>
>
>> Update 2012:
>>
>> Proprietary lobby triumphs in first open standards showdown
>> http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/public-sector/2012/04/proprietary-lobby-triumphs-in.html
>> --
> Is this not yet another example of the ineptness of the present
> Government and its subservience to big business.
>
> Norman
>
>
>
not really, the government set up the consultations announced them, some
people turned up from the open standards community, lots of people
turned up from the proprietary companies (including people being flown
in from America to attend)
http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/events/

Round tables 3 and 2 have not happened yet, please do try to turn up if
you can (I know it is hard if you don't have someone paying you to go).
The outcome of all this won't be decided on a show of hands from the
round table meetings, they just want feedback from those. The very best
thing you can do whilst sat in the comfort of your own home or office is
to fill out the consultation form:

http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/question1/
http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/question2/
http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/question3/

you can see on this the links to see what others have said. All
responses to the consultation will be published (I will do a freedom of
information request for the ones that are not published on the website
when the consultation closes) and you can see that the general consensus
of the published written responses is decidedly in favour of real open
standards.

If you are confused about what the fuss is all about, it is whether
"open standard" should be allowed to contain patents that are licensed
under FRAND terms. FRAND stands for the excellent sounding "Fair
Reasonable and Non Discriminatory" but this is a big problem. The theory
is that you can have a patent in an open standard that requires a modest
payment to the license holder. So for example, lets take a fictional
video format called MPVC which is just wonderful at compressing pictures
of lots of people, but it bears a royalty of £0.01 per user. Sounds
fine, it doesn't cost much, people can make set-top boxes and pay their
penny, parliament streams in MPVC and mandates the use of MPVC for
various other things. Now if someone wants to write an MPVC decoder and
distribute it as Free Software under the GPL they can't because they
can't count the users and make the payment to the license holder. This
is a real means for proprietary companies to block competition from Free
Software.

There is more about this here and elsewhere on the web:

http://opensource.com/law/11/1/open-standards-and-royalty-problem

Go fill out that consultation. I did, you can read my responses on the
website.

Alan.

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Re: Update 2012- Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

alan c-2
In reply to this post by alan c-2
On 14/04/12 15:37, alan c wrote:
[...]

> Update 2012:
>
> Proprietary lobby triumphs in first open standards showdown
> http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/public-sector/2012/04/proprietary-lobby-triumphs-in.html

A round table meeting 'Insiders' view:
http://www.computerweekly.com/opinion/An-insiders-view-on-the-government-open-standards-consultation?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Shortened link:
http://bit.ly/J35krS

My summary:
Open Standards policy is detrimental to innovation and competition
Doubts exist about policy being compatible with European policies etc

If  you, kind reader, have not yet filled in anything on the survey
PLEASE do so NOW?
http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/
--
alan cocks

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Re: Update 2012- Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

Andrés Muñiz Piniella
In reply to this post by alan c-2
El jue, 19-04-2012 a las 12:00 +0000, [hidden email]
escribió:
>                                    
> Re: [ubuntu-uk] Update 2012- Re:
> Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption
> of Open Source across HM Government
> – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]
>                             Fecha:
> Thu, 19 Apr 2012 09:35:19 +0100
>
Is anybody attending these?
http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/events/

I guess today is a bit late for the first one.
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Andrés Muñiz-Piniella

My computer is: #0trisquel1 SMP Tue Apr 17 22:13:46 UTC 2012 GNU/Linux




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Re: Update 2012- Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

Bruno Girin-2
On 24/04/12 23:04, Andrés Muñiz Piniella wrote:

> El jue, 19-04-2012 a las 12:00 +0000, [hidden email]
> escribió:
>>                                    
>> Re: [ubuntu-uk] Update 2012- Re:
>> Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption
>> of Open Source across HM Government
>> – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]
>>                             Fecha:
>> Thu, 19 Apr 2012 09:35:19 +0100
>>
> Is anybody attending these?
> http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/events/
>
> I guess today is a bit late for the first one.

The last one left is this Friday in London.

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Re: Update 2012- Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

Alan Bell-5
On 24/04/12 23:12, Bruno Girin wrote:

> On 24/04/12 23:04, Andrés Muñiz Piniella wrote:
>> El jue, 19-04-2012 a las 12:00 +0000, [hidden email]
>> escribió:
>>>
>>> Re: [ubuntu-uk] Update 2012- Re:
>>> Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption
>>> of Open Source across HM Government
>>> – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]
>>>                              Fecha:
>>> Thu, 19 Apr 2012 09:35:19 +0100
>>>
>> Is anybody attending these?
>> http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/events/
>>
>> I guess today is a bit late for the first one.
> The last one left is this Friday in London.
>
There will be another one because the moderator of the first one turned
out to be engaged by Microsoft to advise them on their response to the
consultation which was an undisclosed conflict of interests.

http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/public-sector/2012/04/proprietary-lobby-triumphs-in.html
http://www.computerweekly.com/opinion/An-insiders-view-on-the-government-open-standards-consultation
http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/04/26/open-standards-consultation-important-update/ 
(hey is that a wordpress favicon?)

something tells me the rerun of that session will be a bit different to
the first round.

Alan.

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Re: Update 2012- Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

Colin Law-4
On 29 April 2012 11:12, Alan Bell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 24/04/12 23:12, Bruno Girin wrote:
>>
>> On 24/04/12 23:04, Andrés Muñiz Piniella wrote:
>>>
>>> El jue, 19-04-2012 a las 12:00 +0000, [hidden email]
>>> escribió:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Re: [ubuntu-uk] Update 2012- Re:
>>>> Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption
>>>> of Open Source across HM Government
>>>> – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]
>>>>                             Fecha:
>>>> Thu, 19 Apr 2012 09:35:19 +0100
>>>>
>>> Is anybody attending these?
>>> http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/events/
>>>
>>> I guess today is a bit late for the first one.
>>
>> The last one left is this Friday in London.
>>
> There will be another one because the moderator of the first one turned out
> to be engaged by Microsoft to advise them on their response to the
> consultation which was an undisclosed conflict of interests.
>
> http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/public-sector/2012/04/proprietary-lobby-triumphs-in.html
> http://www.computerweekly.com/opinion/An-insiders-view-on-the-government-open-standards-consultation
> http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/04/26/open-standards-consultation-important-update/
>  (hey is that a wordpress favicon?)
>
> something tells me the rerun of that session will be a bit different to the
> first round.

Excellent

Colin

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Re: Update 2012- Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

Michael Daniels
In reply to this post by Alan Bell-5


> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 11:12:32 +0100

> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Update 2012- Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]
>
> On 24/04/12 23:12, Bruno Girin wrote:
> > On 24/04/12 23:04, Andrés Muñiz Piniella wrote:
> >> El jue, 19-04-2012 a las 12:00 +0000, [hidden email]
> >> escribió:
> >>>
> >>> Re: [ubuntu-uk] Update 2012- Re:
> >>> Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption
> >>> of Open Source across HM Government
> >>> – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]
> >>> Fecha:
> >>> Thu, 19 Apr 2012 09:35:19 +0100
> >>>
> >> Is anybody attending these?
> >> http://consultation.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/openstandards/events/
> >>
> >> I guess today is a bit late for the first one.
> > The last one left is this Friday in London.
> >
> There will be another one because the moderator of the first one turned
> out to be engaged by Microsoft to advise them on their response to the
> consultation which was an undisclosed conflict of interests.
>
> http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/public-sector/2012/04/proprietary-lobby-triumphs-in.html
> http://www.computerweekly.com/opinion/An-insiders-view-on-the-government-open-standards-consultation
> http://digital.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/2012/04/26/open-standards-consultation-important-update/
> (hey is that a wordpress favicon?)
>
> something tells me the rerun of that session will be a bit different to
> the first round.
>
> Alan.
>
> --
> I work at http://libertus.co.uk
>
>
>Yes, Alan, Microsoft will try to use any option available to counter any possible threat to their sales prospects. 
We do not have "Windows 8" yet due to instability problems, "Windows Vista" was not a commercial success. 
Ubuntu 12.04 works, without Microsoft help !  
Maybe progress seems slow at times, but open-source is not profit related, and may legally copied unlimited times, potentially saving business, including educational ones, thousands. Failure to disclose interest at a meeting can be illegal in some instances, Microsoft seem to be willing to use any means possible to preserve their monopoly. 
What next, a Microsoft bid for Canonical ?
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/

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Re: Update 2012- Re: Fwd: [Ossg-announcements] Adoption of Open Source across HM Government – London 22/02/11 and 01/03/11]]

Alan Bell-5
On 29/04/12 13:06, Michael Daniels wrote:

>
> >
> >Yes, Alan, Microsoft will try to use any option available to counter
> any possible threat to their sales prospects.
>
> We do not have "Windows 8" yet due to instability problems, "Windows
> Vista" was not a commercial success.
> Ubuntu 12.04 works, without Microsoft help !
> Maybe progress seems slow at times, but open-source is not profit
> related, and may legally copied unlimited times, potentially saving
> business, including educational ones, thousands. Failure to disclose
> interest at a meeting can be illegal in some instances, Microsoft seem
> to be willing to use any means possible to preserve their monopoly.
I tend not to bother with Microsoft bashing, it isn't worth putting any
effort into it, in this instance they appear to have made their own PR
problem with no outside assistance.
> What next, a Microsoft bid for Canonical?
I doubt it, think Mark would sell?

Alan.

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