Grub not installing when Xubuntu installs

[Bill Stanley]

I am cleaning up an older computer that had before successfully dual
booted.  I did a full reinstall of Windows and installed all of the
patches etc.  it is now at Service Pack 3.  Because it is an older
computer, I installed Xububtu 12.04 (32 bit).  The Xubuntu install went
smoothly until it came time to reboot.  Grub is missing and the computer
boots to Windows, (no boot menu).  What must be done to force grub to be
installed?  On the Xubuntu install disk there is no obvious way to
install GRUB on an existing Xubuntu install that doesn't have Grub to
dual boot.  I probably am missing something.

Some information that might be useful.

1. Windows XP SP3 is on a 30 GB hard drive, /dev/sda.  This was
reinstalled first and no apps have yet been reinstalled.

2. Xubuntu 12.04 is on a separate 120 GB hard drive, /dev/sdb.  When
doing the install I chose "something else" so I could repartition the
slave hard drive (/dev/sdb) as such;

partition 1 - primary partition - 50 GB - Ext4 - mounted as /home
partition 2 - primary partition - 10 GB - swap area
partition 3 - primary partition - 50 BG - Ext4 - mounted as /
the rest of /dev/sdb is unused and reserved for future use.

Bill Stanley

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[Liam Proven]

On 12 June 2012 19:26, Bill Stanley <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am cleaning up an older computer that had before successfully dual booted.
>  I did a full reinstall of Windows and installed all of the patches etc.  it
> is now at Service Pack 3.  Because it is an older computer, I installed
> Xububtu 12.04 (32 bit).  The Xubuntu install went smoothly until it came
> time to reboot.  Grub is missing and the computer boots to Windows, (no boot
> menu).  What must be done to force grub to be installed?  On the Xubuntu
> install disk there is no obvious way to install GRUB on an existing Xubuntu
> install that doesn't have Grub to dual boot.  I probably am missing
> something.
>
> Some information that might be useful.
>
> 1. Windows XP SP3 is on a 30 GB hard drive, /dev/sda.  This was reinstalled
> first and no apps have yet been reinstalled.
>
> 2. Xubuntu 12.04 is on a separate 120 GB hard drive, /dev/sdb.  When doing
> the install I chose "something else" so I could repartition the slave hard
> drive (/dev/sdb) as such;
>
> partition 1 - primary partition - 50 GB - Ext4 - mounted as /home
> partition 2 - primary partition - 10 GB - swap area
> partition 3 - primary partition - 50 BG - Ext4 - mounted as /
> the rest of /dev/sdb is unused and reserved for future use.

Where did you tell it to put the bootloader? On sda or sdb?

Is it possible in the BIOS to tell the PC to boot from  sdb instead of sda?

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[chris-776]

On Tue, 2012-06-12 at 19:39 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:
> On 12 June 2012 19:26, Bill Stanley <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I am cleaning up an older computer that had before successfully dual booted.
> >  I did a full reinstall of Windows and installed all of the patches etc.  it
<snip>
>
> Is it possible in the BIOS to tell the PC to boot from  sdb instead of sda?
>
> --
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> MSN: [hidden email] • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
> Tel: [phone] • Cell: [phone]
>

You can run a google for the grub2 recovery disk iso, and use that to
sort things out.
I have used it successfully many times in a similar situation to yours.


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[Bill Stanley]

On 06/12/2012 03:56 PM, chris wrote:

> On Tue, 2012-06-12 at 19:39 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:
>> On 12 June 2012 19:26, Bill Stanley<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>> I am cleaning up an older computer that had before successfully dual booted.
>>>   I did a full reinstall of Windows and installed all of the patches etc.  it
> <snip>
>>
>> Is it possible in the BIOS to tell the PC to boot from  sdb instead of sda?
>>
>> --
>> Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
>> Email: [hidden email] • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
>> MSN: [hidden email] • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
>> Tel: [phone] • Cell: [phone]
>>
>
> You can run a google for the grub2 recovery disk iso, and use that to
> sort things out.
> I have used it successfully many times in a similar situation to yours.

Thanks, but I see something called a "Super Grub disk" which claims to
do it but I am not sure.  Does this web page look right?

http://www.supergrubdisk.org/

Bill Stanley

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[Bill Stanley]

On 06/12/2012 04:15 PM, Bill Stanley wrote:

> On 06/12/2012 03:56 PM, chris wrote:
>> On Tue, 2012-06-12 at 19:39 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:
>>> On 12 June 2012 19:26, Bill Stanley<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> I am cleaning up an older computer that had before successfully dual
>>>> booted.
>>>> I did a full reinstall of Windows and installed all of the patches
>>>> etc. it
>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Is it possible in the BIOS to tell the PC to boot from sdb instead of
>>> sda?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
>>> Email: [hidden email] • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
>>> MSN: [hidden email] • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
>>> Tel: [phone] • Cell: [phone]
>>>
>>
>> You can run a google for the grub2 recovery disk iso, and use that to
>> sort things out.
>> I have used it successfully many times in a similar situation to yours.
>
>
> Thanks, but I see something called a "Super Grub disk" which claims to
> do it but I am not sure. Does this web page look right?
>
> http://www.supergrubdisk.org/
>
> Bill Stanley
>

I tried the super grub disk but that does not seem to be the right
choice.  It repairs an EXISTING boot setup but does not install a new one.

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[chris-776]

On Tue, 2012-06-12 at 17:33 -0400, Bill Stanley wrote:

> On 06/12/2012 04:15 PM, Bill Stanley wrote:
> > On 06/12/2012 03:56 PM, chris wrote:
> >> On Tue, 2012-06-12 at 19:39 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:
> >>> On 12 June 2012 19:26, Bill Stanley<[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>> I am cleaning up an older computer that had before successfully dual
> >>>> booted.
> >>>> I did a full reinstall of Windows and installed all of the patches
> >>>> etc. it
> >> <snip>
> >>>
> >>> Is it possible in the BIOS to tell the PC to boot from sdb instead of
> >>> sda?
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
> >>> Email: [hidden email] • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
> >>> MSN: [hidden email] • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
> >>> Tel: [phone] • Cell: [phone]
> >>>
> >>
> >> You can run a google for the grub2 recovery disk iso, and use that to
> >> sort things out.
> >> I have used it successfully many times in a similar situation to yours.
> >
> >
> > Thanks, but I see something called a "Super Grub disk" which claims to
> > do it but I am not sure. Does this web page look right?
> >
> > http://www.supergrubdisk.org/
> >
> > Bill Stanley
> >
> I tried the super grub disk but that does not seem to be the right
> choice.  It repairs an EXISTING boot setup but does not install a new one.
>
> --
>
> Bill Stanley
>

True, but it will boot into an existing Linux distro, which then allows
you to run  sudo grub-install /dev/sda1 if that is where your boot disk
is,  then sudo update-grub.

This will reinstall the boot loader to the correct <active> partition



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[Liam Proven]

On 12 June 2012 23:10, chris <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> True, but it will boot into an existing Linux distro, which then allows
> you to run  sudo grub-install /dev/sda1 if that is where your boot disk
> is,  then sudo update-grub.
>
> This will reinstall the boot loader to the correct <active> partition

You can do this with an ordinary LiveCD, but first, we need to know
what went wrong, which is why I asked the questions I did. Which, I
note, have not been answered yet.


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[chris-776]

On Wed, 2012-06-13 at 00:44 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:

> On 12 June 2012 23:10, chris <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > True, but it will boot into an existing Linux distro, which then allows
> > you to run  sudo grub-install /dev/sda1 if that is where your boot disk
> > is,  then sudo update-grub.
> >
> > This will reinstall the boot loader to the correct <active> partition
>
> You can do this with an ordinary LiveCD, but first, we need to know
> what went wrong, which is why I asked the questions I did. Which, I
> note, have not been answered yet.
>
>
> --
> Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
> Email: [hidden email] • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
> MSN: [hidden email] • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
> Tel: [phone] • Cell: [phone]

I suspect he may not have the technical know how Liam
cheers


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[Liam Proven]

On 13 June 2012 01:08, chris <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I suspect he may not have the technical know how Liam
> cheers

I know, which is why, before we started down that route, I would try
to find out exactly what happened.

If there are 2 HDs and GRUB is on disk 2 along with all the rest of
Linux, then changing the BIOS is by /far/ the easiest way to switch
between them, I reckon.


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[chris-776]

On Wed, 2012-06-13 at 01:22 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:

> On 13 June 2012 01:08, chris <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I suspect he may not have the technical know how Liam
> > cheers
>
> I know, which is why, before we started down that route, I would try
> to find out exactly what happened.
>
> If there are 2 HDs and GRUB is on disk 2 along with all the rest of
> Linux, then changing the BIOS is by /far/ the easiest way to switch
> between them, I reckon.
>
>
> --
> Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
> Email: [hidden email] • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
> MSN: [hidden email] • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
> Tel: [phone] • Cell: [phone]
>

I agree.
Providing he is capable of telling us that!
C


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[Bill Stanley]

On 06/12/2012 07:44 PM, Liam Proven wrote:

> On 12 June 2012 23:10, chris<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>> True, but it will boot into an existing Linux distro, which then allows
>> you to run  sudo grub-install /dev/sda1 if that is where your boot disk
>> is,  then sudo update-grub.
>>
>> This will reinstall the boot loader to the correct<active>  partition
>
> You can do this with an ordinary LiveCD, but first, we need to know
> what went wrong, which is why I asked the questions I did. Which, I
> note, have not been answered yet.
>

Your questions were...

Where did you tell it to put the bootloader? On sda or sdb?

Is it possible in the BIOS to tell the PC to boot from  sdb instead of sda?

I do not remember explicitly remember telling the install program where
to put the boot loader.  I have done this before and the install program
always chose the correct location.  As for the BIOS, I made no changes
there so it still is pointing to sda as where the boot loader should be.
  If grub is located on sdb, this is the first time that the wrong
choice has been made.

Bill Stanley

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[Bill Stanley]

On 06/12/2012 10:01 PM, chris wrote:

> On Wed, 2012-06-13 at 01:22 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:
>> On 13 June 2012 01:08, chris<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>> I suspect he may not have the technical know how Liam
>>> cheers
>>
>> I know, which is why, before we started down that route, I would try
>> to find out exactly what happened.
>>
>> If there are 2 HDs and GRUB is on disk 2 along with all the rest of
>> Linux, then changing the BIOS is by /far/ the easiest way to switch
>> between them, I reckon.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
>> Email: [hidden email] • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
>> MSN: [hidden email] • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
>> Tel: [phone] • Cell: [phone]
>>
>
> I agree.
> Providing he is capable of telling us that!

I am still here but was unable to reply sooner because of other pressing
matters.   I will try to see If I can change the default boot order in
the BIOS first.  If that fails, I'll try to boot into the Linux
partition and changing grub there.  Still, the installation program
should have chosen the correct place to put the grub boot loader.  In
the past, it did.

PS.  One should not make snap judgments on my competence I am just not
as experienced with Linux as I am in other areas of CS.  (Do you care to
ask me questions about program verification, software testing and
debugging?  Ask away!  I just need a sounding board from more
experienced Linux users before trying something that might be time
consuming.

Bill Stanley

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[Ryan Gauger]

On 06/12/2012 09:33 PM, Bill Stanley wrote:

> On 06/12/2012 10:01 PM, chris wrote:
>> On Wed, 2012-06-13 at 01:22 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:
>>> On 13 June 2012 01:08, chris<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>> I suspect he may not have the technical know how Liam
>>>> cheers
>>>
>>> I know, which is why, before we started down that route, I would try
>>> to find out exactly what happened.
>>>
>>> If there are 2 HDs and GRUB is on disk 2 along with all the rest of
>>> Linux, then changing the BIOS is by /far/ the easiest way to switch
>>> between them, I reckon.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
>>> Email: [hidden email] • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
>>> MSN: [hidden email] • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
>>> Tel: [phone] • Cell: [phone]
>>>
>>
>> I agree.
>> Providing he is capable of telling us that!
>
> I am still here but was unable to reply sooner because of other
> pressing matters.   I will try to see If I can change the default boot
> order in the BIOS first.  If that fails, I'll try to boot into the
> Linux partition and changing grub there.  Still, the installation
> program should have chosen the correct place to put the grub boot
> loader.  In the past, it did.
>
> PS.  One should not make snap judgments on my competence I am just not
> as experienced with Linux as I am in other areas of CS.  (Do you care
> to ask me questions about program verification, software testing and
> debugging?  Ask away!  I just need a sounding board from more
> experienced Linux users before trying something that might be time
> consuming.
>
> Bill Stanley
>

I am an experienced Linux user ready to help you! I think what you have
done with the boot loader should resolve your issue. I am not good with
this part of the operating system, just with the graphical part :) I
hope you are able to fix the issue!

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[chris-776]

On Tue, 2012-06-12 at 22:33 -0400, Bill Stanley wrote:

> On 06/12/2012 10:01 PM, chris wrote:
> > On Wed, 2012-06-13 at 01:22 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:
> >> On 13 June 2012 01:08, chris<[hidden email]>  wrote:
> >>> I suspect he may not have the technical know how Liam
> >>> cheers
> >>
> >> I know, which is why, before we started down that route, I would try
> >> to find out exactly what happened.
> >>
> >> If there are 2 HDs and GRUB is on disk 2 along with all the rest of
> >> Linux, then changing the BIOS is by /far/ the easiest way to switch
> >> between them, I reckon.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
> >> Email: [hidden email] • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
> >> MSN: [hidden email] • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
> >> Tel: [phone] • Cell: [phone]
> >>
> >
> > I agree.
> > Providing he is capable of telling us that!
>
> I am still here but was unable to reply sooner because of other pressing
> matters.   I will try to see If I can change the default boot order in
> the BIOS first.  If that fails, I'll try to boot into the Linux
> partition and changing grub there.  Still, the installation program
> should have chosen the correct place to put the grub boot loader.  In
> the past, it did.
>
> PS.  One should not make snap judgments on my competence I am just not
> as experienced with Linux as I am in other areas of CS.  (Do you care to
> ask me questions about program verification, software testing and
> debugging?  Ask away!  I just need a sounding board from more
> experienced Linux users before trying something that might be time
> consuming.
>
> Bill Stanley
>

fair comment



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[Ric Moore]

On 06/12/2012 10:33 PM, Bill Stanley wrote:

> On 06/12/2012 10:01 PM, chris wrote:
>> On Wed, 2012-06-13 at 01:22 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:
>>> On 13 June 2012 01:08, chris<[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> I suspect he may not have the technical know how Liam
>>>> cheers
>>>
>>> I know, which is why, before we started down that route, I would try
>>> to find out exactly what happened.
>>>
>>> If there are 2 HDs and GRUB is on disk 2 along with all the rest of
>>> Linux, then changing the BIOS is by /far/ the easiest way to switch
>>> between them, I reckon.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
>>> Email: [hidden email] • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
>>> MSN: [hidden email] • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
>>> Tel: [phone] • Cell: [phone]
>>>
>>
>> I agree.
>> Providing he is capable of telling us that!
>
> I am still here but was unable to reply sooner because of other pressing
> matters. I will try to see If I can change the default boot order in the
> BIOS first. If that fails, I'll try to boot into the Linux partition and
> changing grub there. Still, the installation program should have chosen
> the correct place to put the grub boot loader. In the past, it did.
>
> PS. One should not make snap judgments on my competence I am just not as
> experienced with Linux as I am in other areas of CS. (Do you care to ask
> me questions about program verification, software testing and debugging?
> Ask away! I just need a sounding board from more experienced Linux users
> before trying something that might be time consuming.

Don't feel too bad Bill. I had completely re-installed my machine and
ran all the updates before I noticed all the the 32bit stuff being
installed. I used the wrong DVD. :) Ric


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[Bill Stanley]

Ryan,

> I am an experienced Linux user ready to help you! I think what you have
> done with the boot loader should resolve your issue. I am not good with
> this part of the operating system, just with the graphical part :) I
> hope you are able to fix the issue!
>

I might be getting at the root of the problem.  I used super grub2 to
try to boot into the Linux installation.  It failed saying that
something was wrong in the installation.  I might have a bad
installation disk.  I used bit torrent to download and .iso file which
was then burned by Brasero.  Probably the install disk was corrupted
somewhere along the line.   The strange thing is that the installation
seemed to work OK.

Short story, I an downloading from a different source and trying the
installation again.  This time, I intend to look closely where grub
should go.  By the way, I checked my system BIOS and I can only boot
from the master hard drive, floppy drives  and other media but not the
slave HD. (Do computers still have floppy drives?  The computer I am
trying to reinstall certainly doesn't.)

Bill Stanley

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[Bill Stanley]

I reinstalled using a fresh install disk from an iso downloaded from a
different source.  The new Xubuntu install seems to be OK and the grub
menu listing Windows and Xubuntu is present.  It seems as if I had a bad
install disk.  Thanks for the hints about grub.  Though the hints were
not used this time, they might prove helpful in the future.

Bill Stanley

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[NoOp-4]

On 06/13/2012 10:15 AM, Bill Stanley wrote:
...

> I might be getting at the root of the problem.  I used super grub2 to
> try to boot into the Linux installation.  It failed saying that
> something was wrong in the installation.  I might have a bad
> installation disk.  I used bit torrent to download and .iso file which
> was then burned by Brasero.  Probably the install disk was corrupted
> somewhere along the line.   The strange thing is that the installation
> seemed to work OK.
>
> Short story, I an downloading from a different source and trying the
> installation again.  This time, I intend to look closely where grub

Why not just use your Ubuntu LiveCD?
Reinstall grub2 if necessary:
<https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2>
 <https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/Installing>

<https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2/Installing#Reinstall_from_the_LiveCD>

> should go.  By the way, I checked my system BIOS and I can only boot
> from the master hard drive, floppy drives  and other media but not the
> slave HD. (Do computers still have floppy drives?  The computer I am
> trying to reinstall certainly doesn't.)

Several of mine do:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/441835
[Clicking on floppy gives "no device media found" ]


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[Ryan Gauger]

Hello Bill,

 

The boot loader should be installed on the same HD as the OS. If it is not, you will most-likely encounter a GRUB error telling you that it cannot find certain files needed. All major computer manufacturers do not have floppy drive spots installed in them, as floppy drives are used very rarely now. You do not need floppy drives to install Ubuntu, so there should definitely be np there. I hope this helps! 

 

Sent from my Windows 8 PC

 

From: Bill Stanley <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 12:16:05 PM
To: Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions
Subject: Re: Grub not installing when Xubuntu installs

 

Ryan,

I am an experienced Linux user ready to help you! I think what you have
done with the boot loader should resolve your issue. I am not good with
this part of the operating system, just with the graphical part :) I
hope you are able to fix the issue!

I might be getting at the root of the problem.  I used super grub2 to try to boot into the Linux installation.  It failed saying that something was wrong in the installation.  I might have a bad installation disk.  I used bit torrent to download and .iso file which was then burned by Brasero.  Probably the install disk was corrupted somewhere along the line.   The strange thing is that the installation seemed to work OK.

Short story, I an downloading from a different source and trying the installation again.  This time, I intend to look closely where grub should go.  By the way, I checked my system BIOS and I can only boot from the master hard drive, floppy drives  and other media but not the slave HD. (Do computers still have floppy drives?  The computer I am trying to reinstall certainly doesn't.)

Bill Stanley

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[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 20:52:20 +0000
Ryan Gauger <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The boot loader should be installed on the same HD as the OS.

Absolute tripe.  Where /do/ you come up with these bits of
ridiculous disinformation?  You aren't doing your meager reputation here
any good at all by passing on these things about which you know nothing.

Here, some /real/ information from
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_GRUB>:

"A key feature of GRUB is that it can be installed without being
attached to an operating system. However, it needs a copy of a Linux
image for such an installation. Working as a stand alone system it is
virtually a mini system in its own right and able to boot all the
installed major operating systems by chain loading, as described above.

Unlike Linux Loader (LILO), there is no need to reinstall GRUB to the
MBR or a partition after changes to the configuration file.

In Linux, the "grub-install" command is used to install stage1 to
either the MBR or a partition. GRUB's configuration file, stage2
(usually), and other files must be in a usable partition. If these
files or the partition become unavailable, stage1 will drop the user to
the command line interface.

The name and disk location of the GRUB configuration file varies from
system to system. For example, in openSUSE and (for GRUB legacy) in
Debian GNU/Linux the file is stored in /boot/grub/menu.lst while
Fedora, Gentoo Linux, and (for GRUB 2) Debian use /boot/grub/grub.conf
or ../grub.cfg. Fedora also provides a symbolic link
from /etc/grub.conf to /boot/grub/grub.conf for FHS compatibility
reasons.

GRUB can be installed on removable media, such as an optical drive
(BIOS access, and El Torito), floppy disk or USB flash drive, in order
to bring up a system that may not have or cannot boot from a hard disk."

Cybe R. Wizard
--
There is absolutely no substitute for a complete lack of information
upon which to base a considered opinion.
        Doug Riddle

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