Help Porting Our TomeRaider to Ubuntu

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Help Porting Our TomeRaider to Ubuntu

Mat Ripley
Hi Ubuntu Developers

After falling in love with ubuntu I really would like our TomeRaider on it. We are happy to make it free and open source just for the Ubuntu distro (I know that unusual, but ubuntu is the future, IMHO)

Our developers will help but we don't have experience in this platform. TomeRaider is currently available for XP, Palm, PPC, Psion and some smart phones.

This is not a commercial decision but a passionate one for Ubuntu:)

Is anyone available to help?


Best wishes

Mat Ripley
CEO
Yadabyte Ltd
http://www.yadabyte.com
http://www.tomeraider.com
Since 1999
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Re: Help Porting Our TomeRaider to Ubuntu

Ivan Krstić-3
Hi Mat,

Mat Ripley wrote:
> After falling in love with ubuntu I really would like our TomeRaider on
> it. We are happy to make it free and open source just for the Ubuntu
> distro (I know that unusual, but ubuntu is the future, IMHO)

Free software (software libre, as opposed to gratis software) by
definition doesn't restrict its users from modifying it or
redistributing it [1].

It's essentially not possible to release your software under a truly
free license if it includes a provision that revokes the same license
from any distributor that's not Ubuntu; remember also that there's a
growing number of Ubuntu derivative distributions (such as Kubuntu,
Xubuntu, nubuntu, ImpiLinux, and so on) that would be adversely affected
by such a provision.

If you were, however, willing to make this a contribution to the whole
open source and free software community, it would be very warmly
greeted, and I'm sure you'd have no trouble finding help in getting the
source code ported.

> Is anyone available to help?

You should probably first decide on the path you want to pursue with
regard to licensing. If you choose a free software license, simply
opening up a repository with the TomeRaider source code for public
access, and announcing the decision, will likely attract developers who
would be interested in helping with the port.

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Re: Help Porting Our TomeRaider to Ubuntu

Ivan Krstić-3
Ivan Krstic wrote:
> Free software (software libre, as opposed to gratis software) by
> definition doesn't restrict its users from modifying it or
> redistributing it [1].

I missed adding this footnote; it was going to read 'with certain
potential caveats, such as the GPL redistribution clause that requires
modified GPL software to be made available under the terms of the GPL
license'.

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Re: Help Porting Our TomeRaider to Ubuntu

Scott Dier
In reply to this post by Ivan Krstić-3
Ivan Krstic wrote:
> Free software (software libre, as opposed to gratis software) by
> definition doesn't restrict its users from modifying it or
> redistributing it [1].

Now one thing thats been seen in the past is not releasing the UI code
for other operating systems but only open sourcing the application and
the needed UI code for X11 based operating systems.

Thanks,

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Re: Help Porting Our TomeRaider to Ubuntu

Dane Mutters
On Wednesday 28 June 2006 16:43, Scott Dier wrote:
> Ivan Krstic wrote:
> > Free software (software libre, as opposed to gratis software) by
> > definition doesn't restrict its users from modifying it or
> > redistributing it [1].
>
> Now one thing thats been seen in the past is not releasing the UI code
> for other operating systems but only open sourcing the application and
> the needed UI code for X11 based operating systems.

Couldn't he also put it in Universe or Multiverse?

--Dane

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Re: Help Porting Our TomeRaider to Ubuntu

Micah Cowan
In reply to this post by Scott Dier
On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 06:43:40PM -0500, Scott Dier wrote:
> Ivan Krstic wrote:
> > Free software (software libre, as opposed to gratis software) by
> > definition doesn't restrict its users from modifying it or
> > redistributing it [1].
>
> Now one thing thats been seen in the past is not releasing the UI code
> for other operating systems but only open sourcing the application and
> the needed UI code for X11 based operating systems.

Such licenses are firmly outside the domain of FOSS. Does Ubuntu include
any such packages in main or universe?

Also, it doesn't really matter, but IIRC I haven't seen any software
that's open only for X11-based operating systems; only for operating
systems which are themselves open. Note that one might term a Windows
version packaged with Cygwin (or MS proprietary X servers) an "X11-based
operating system", whereas there are many Linux systems that are not
X11-based.

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Re: Help Porting Our TomeRaider to Ubuntu

Ankur Kotwal
The original poster seems to be asking for help to port their application and instead the thread is being hijacked into discussions about licenses. So instead of answering the original question, we are frightening the user about issues that could be resolved later. These are the kinds of discussions that deter commercial organisations from writing software for Linux - the community gets carried away about the license. Lets help the original poster with their current problems rather than have a long drawn out discussion about which license they should use.

Does anyone have experience with porting such applications to Linux? Is there any information on the net that could be useful to the original poster? Lets get the difficult work started (i.e. the porting) and in parallel to this, discussions can be had about the license (off the ubuntu-devel list).

Lets encourage more organisations to write software for Linux without worrying them too much *initially* with licensing type issues.

--
Kind Regards,
Ankur Kotwal


On 6/29/06, Micah J. Cowan <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 06:43:40PM -0500, Scott Dier wrote:
> Ivan Krstic wrote:
> > Free software (software libre, as opposed to gratis software) by
> > definition doesn't restrict its users from modifying it or
> > redistributing it [1].
>
> Now one thing thats been seen in the past is not releasing the UI code
> for other operating systems but only open sourcing the application and
> the needed UI code for X11 based operating systems.

Such licenses are firmly outside the domain of FOSS. Does Ubuntu include
any such packages in main or universe?

Also, it doesn't really matter, but IIRC I haven't seen any software
that's open only for X11-based operating systems; only for operating
systems which are themselves open. Note that one might term a Windows
version packaged with Cygwin (or MS proprietary X servers) an "X11-based
operating system", whereas there are many Linux systems that are not
X11-based.

--
Micah J. Cowan
Programmer, musician, typesetting enthusiast, gamer...
http://micah.cowan.name/

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Re: Help Porting Our TomeRaider to Ubuntu

Ivan Krstić-3
Ankur Kotwal wrote:
> So instead of answering the original question, we are frightening the
> user about issues that could be resolved later.

My tone was decidedly non-frightening, and licensing is certainly
not an issue that is better left for later.

> Lets help the original poster with their current problems rather than
> have a long drawn out discussion about which license they should use.

You're suggesting that developers should volunteer time and effort
porting an application that can be left proprietary and non-free?

> Does anyone have experience with porting such applications to Linux?

Yes.

> there any information on the net that could be useful to the original
>  poster?

Only the broadest information can be given without more detail about the
TomeRaider source (programming language, dependencies, etc).

> Lets get the difficult work started (i.e. the porting) and in
> parallel to this, discussions can be had about the license (off the
> ubuntu-devel list). Lets encourage more organisations to write
> software for Linux without worrying them too much *initially* with
> licensing type issues.

I don't think you've thought through what you're saying. Agreement on a
free license is generally a sine qua non when help is requested from the
free software community; those who aren't willing to educate themselves
about licensing probably aren't serious about releasing their software
freely.

We have a reasonably quick free license primer, including a description
of why licensing should be done early, on the OLPC code wiki:

  http://dev.laptop.org/wiki/SoftwareLicensing

That's a simple, non-frightening, high-level overview that should help
simplify the discussion. In any case, this doesn't really belong on
ubuntu-devel, so a move to sounder is likely in order.

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Re: Help Porting Our TomeRaider to Ubuntu

Scott Dier
In reply to this post by Micah Cowan
Micah J. Cowan wrote:
> Such licenses are firmly outside the domain of FOSS. Does Ubuntu include
> any such packages in main or universe?

Thats interesting, I swear QT did that for years.  They don't anymore,
but it didn't make KDE and QT being in Debian main.

I'm not talking about restrictive licensing, I'm talking about merely
*not* giving out sourcecode that bridges the app to Win32 or Palm or
whathaveyou.  I'm not talking about licenses that restrict the ability
write your own way to bridge to windows land.  Since the owners of the
code can license to themselves any which way they want, theres also no
issues by redistributing their own binaries with proprietary code
either. (see: openoffice/staroffice)

Thanks,
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Scott Dier <[hidden email]>

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Re: Help Porting Our TomeRaider to Ubuntu

Micah Cowan
On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 10:29:51PM -0500, Scott Dier wrote:
> Micah J. Cowan wrote:
> > Such licenses are firmly outside the domain of FOSS. Does Ubuntu include
> > any such packages in main or universe?
>
> Thats interesting, I swear QT did that for years.  They don't anymore,
> but it didn't make KDE and QT being in Debian main.

The QPL has always allowed use on any platform. The GPL-incompatible
restriction was that modifications had to be distributed in patch form.
In Qt's case, it /was/ a simple omission of code, and not a licensing
issue (as I made it _explicitly_ clear I was discussing, above).

> I'm not talking about restrictive licensing, I'm talking about merely
> *not* giving out sourcecode that bridges the app to Win32 or Palm or
> whathaveyou.  I'm not talking about licenses that restrict the ability
> write your own way to bridge to windows land.  Since the owners of the
> code can license to themselves any which way they want, theres also no
> issues by redistributing their own binaries with proprietary code
> either. (see: openoffice/staroffice)

I (and the OP) /are/ talking about licensing. The OP specifically stated
making it "Free and Open Source" /only/ for Ubuntu.  Not even for other
Linuxen. Sounds like licensing to me.

Ivan was certainly talking licensing, so if you were changing the
subject in your response, you should probably have been more explicit.

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Micah J. Cowan
Programmer, musician, typesetting enthusiast, gamer...
http://micah.cowan.name/

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Re: Help Porting Our TomeRaider to Ubuntu

George Farris
In reply to this post by Ivan Krstić-3
On Wed, 2006-28-06 at 19:06 -0700, Ivan Krstic wrote:
> Ankur Kotwal wrote:
> > So instead of answering the original question, we are frightening the
> > user about issues that could be resolved later.
>
> My tone was decidedly non-frightening, and licensing is certainly
> not an issue that is better left for later.

I have to agree.  The original poster did say "We are happy to make it
free and open source just for the Ubuntu distro", the key being the
phrase "open source".  I think they have to decide to either pay someone
to make a port and keep the source closed or open it up and discuss
licensing issues as it might pertain to inclusion in Ubuntu.



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