How do you get 16.04 to boot?

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How do you get 16.04 to boot?

Pastor JW-2
For some reason 16.04 has never booted since it went on.  It will sit
for hours with nothing coming on the screen, no prompt for user password
or any login screen.


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Re: How do you get 16.04 to boot?

Dick Dowdell
I've had no problems booting 16.04. Yiu might want to look at https://askubuntu.com/questions/763638/no-more-boot-logging-since-16-04.

😀I suspect that taking hours to boot is not normal behavior.

Cheers,
Dick

Dick Dowdell
Phone: 508-528-4018  Mobile: 508-498-7919

On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Pastor JW <[hidden email]> wrote:
For some reason 16.04 has never booted since it went on.  It will sit for hours with nothing coming on the screen, no prompt for user password or any login screen.


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Re: How do you get 16.04 to boot?

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 16:16:38 -0400, Dick Dowdell wrote:
>I've had no problems booting 16.04. Yiu might want to look at
>https://askubuntu.com/questions/763638/no-more-boot-logging-since-16-04.

Hi,

how should a user run journalctl, when logging in doesn't work? From a
live media it would be possible to mount the install and to e.g. run

  sudo systemd-nspawn -qD /mount/point

and after that to run

  journalctl

but even this might fail, so after mounting at best

  sudo strings /mount/point/var/log/journal/*/system.journal

might provide some information. However, even

  less /mount/point/var/log/boot.log

or any other log IMO is more confusing, than helpful as the first step
of troubleshooting.

IMO the first step of troubleshooting should be to read if GRUB and/or
the startup messages are complaining about something. Users who prefer
an idiotic splash thingy over messages, simply need to push the Esc-key
to see the startup messages.

Are there any GRUB (or what ever bootloader you are using) messages?
If not and assuming it should start booting, are there any messages
after pushing the Esc-key?

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: How do you get 16.04 to boot?

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 23:16:09 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

>On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 16:16:38 -0400, Dick Dowdell wrote:
>>I've had no problems booting 16.04. Yiu might want to look at
>>https://askubuntu.com/questions/763638/no-more-boot-logging-since-16-04.  
>
>Hi,
>
>how should a user run journalctl, when logging in doesn't work? From a
>live media it would be possible to mount the install and to e.g. run
>
>  sudo systemd-nspawn -qD /mount/point
>
>and after that to run
>
>  journalctl
>
>but even this might fail, so after mounting at best
>
>  sudo strings /mount/point/var/log/journal/*/system.journal
>
>might provide some information. However, even
>
>  less /mount/point/var/log/boot.log
>
>or any other log IMO is more confusing, than helpful as the first step
>of troubleshooting.
>
>IMO the first step of troubleshooting should be to read if GRUB and/or
>the startup messages are complaining about something. Users who prefer
>an idiotic splash thingy over messages, simply need to push the Esc-key
>to see the startup messages.
>
>Are there any GRUB (or what ever bootloader you are using) messages?
>If not and assuming it should start booting, are there any messages
>after pushing the Esc-key?
>
>Regards,
>Ralf

PS:

If neither GRUB, nor startup messages don't give a hint, the second
step would be to care about e.g. the display manager log files and the X
log file. I don't know how helpful "dmesg" could be as the second step,
if at all.

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Re: How do you get 16.04 to boot?

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 23:22:55 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>If neither ..., nor ... don't

The double negative is a typo :D.


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Re: How do you get 16.04 to boot?

Dick Dowdell
Ralf,

I've been a professional software developer for over 40 years and I frequently examine problematic boot drives from another bootable system. Your advice is very much appreciated, but you might be a little less abrasive in your comments on other's efforts to help..

Cheers,
Dick

Dick Dowdell
Phone: 508-528-4018  Mobile: 508-498-7919

On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 23:22:55 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>If neither ..., nor ... don't

The double negative is a typo :D.


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Re: How do you get 16.04 to boot?

First Name Last Name

On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 3:40 PM, Dick Dowdell <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ralf,

I've been a professional software developer for over 40 years and I frequently examine problematic boot drives from another bootable system. Your advice is very much appreciated, but you might be a little less abrasive in your comments on other's efforts to help..

Cheers,
Dick

Dick Dowdell
Phone: 508-528-4018  Mobile: 508-498-7919

That's just Ralf's usual gruff persona that you are seeing.
\You get used to it, and in his defence, he has to deal with all the nits who haven't figured out how to read the manual/do a simple web search on far too regular a basis.
Ed
On the Mojave

On Sat, Jul 1, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 23:22:55 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>If neither ..., nor ... don't

The double negative is a typo :D.


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Re: How do you get 16.04 to boot?

Karl Auer
In reply to this post by Pastor JW-2
On Sat, 2017-07-01 at 12:55 -0700, Pastor JW wrote:
> For some reason 16.04 has never booted since it went on.  It will sit
> for hours with nothing coming on the screen, no prompt for user
> password or any login screen.

I hesitate to ask, but is the system definitely switched on? Is the
monitor definitely switched on? Is the monitor definitely attached to
the PC, and attached to the correct video output on the PC? Is the
monitor cable correctly attached to the monitor, and to the correct
input on the monitor?

Assuming "yes" to all the above:

Immediately after turning the system on, do you see anything *at all*
on the screen? For example, BIOS messages, manufacturer splash screen,
anything at all that would indicate that the monitor is switched on and
connected properly? Even just watch the monitor very carefully and see if there is any change, however subtle, in the brightness of the screen.

If there is nothing (and I do mean nothing) displayed during the boot
process, I would suggest attaching the monitor to a known good system
to make sure that the monitor really is working.

If the monitor is working, then is there really *nothing* on the
screen? For example, is the screen background something other than
black, or is there a cursor flashing somewhere?

How long is "hours"? I mean, is that hyperbole on your part, or have
you actually waited for multiples of sixty minutes?

You got 16.04 onto this system - how? If it was off a LiveCD or USB
stick, can you still boot that medium and does it still get you to a
working Linux?

Does your PC have more than one video output? If so, what happens if
you attach a monitor to the other output?

If the PC has a static IP address, is it pingable? If you have another
Linux box available in your network, install and run zenmap and do a
quick scan of the network. Does the blank PC show up? Depending on what
sort of home router you have, you may also be able to identify the
blank PC via the DHCP entries on the router.

All of the above is just trying to find out whether Linux may actually
have booted, but be unable to display anything.

If it has not booted at all, the problem is very different.

Regards, K.

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Re: How do you get 16.04 to boot?

Pastor JW-2


On 07/01/2017 05:32 PM, Karl Auer wrote:

> On Sat, 2017-07-01 at 12:55 -0700, Pastor JW wrote:
>> For some reason 16.04 has never booted since it went on.  It will sit
>> for hours with nothing coming on the screen, no prompt for user
>> password or any login screen.
> I hesitate to ask, but is the system definitely switched on? Is the
> monitor definitely switched on? Is the monitor definitely attached to
> the PC, and attached to the correct video output on the PC? Is the
> monitor cable correctly attached to the monitor, and to the correct
> input on the monitor?
>
> Assuming "yes" to all the above:
>
> Immediately after turning the system on, do you see anything *at all*
> on the screen? For example, BIOS messages, manufacturer splash screen,
> anything at all that would indicate that the monitor is switched on and
> connected properly? Even just watch the monitor very carefully and see if there is any change, however subtle, in the brightness of the screen.
>
> If there is nothing (and I do mean nothing) displayed during the boot
> process, I would suggest attaching the monitor to a known good system
> to make sure that the monitor really is working.
>
> If the monitor is working, then is there really *nothing* on the
> screen? For example, is the screen background something other than
> black, or is there a cursor flashing somewhere
It does a hard drive check then goes to a dark grey screen which remains
unchanging.  nothing else comes on screen.  Yes the laptop screen is
working.  The light on the keyboard comes on that says the wireless is
turned on.  However, the only way to get it to work is to hit the escape
early, go to the advanced options and click on the the kernel choice
that has "upstart" behind it, whatever that is, then it come with a
ramdisk comment, then it brings up my login screen and and I can get
online.  I have to go through all these manual steps to make it work.  I
never used to have to do these steps.  I would like it to boot like it
used to when it was 14.04. Do you have to escape each time you boot your
machine and use the upstart kernel?
> How long is "hours"? I mean, is that hyperbole on your part, or have
> you actually waited for multiples of sixty minutes?
In this case it is from 7:33 AM till noon when I left for lunch and
turned it off.

> You got 16.04 onto this system - how? If it was off a LiveCD or USB
> stick, can you still boot that medium and does it still get you to a
> working Linux?
No, what it does not do is boot like it did when it was 14.04.  It was
updated directly to 16.04 via the software updater when it said there
was an update was available and was done connected online.
> Does your PC have more than one video output? If so, what happens if
> you attach a monitor to the other output?
It is a HP laptop with only Ubuntu installed on it.

> If the PC has a static IP address, is it pingable? If you have another
> Linux box available in your network, install and run zenmap and do a
> quick scan of the network. Does the blank PC show up? Depending on what
> sort of home router you have, you may also be able to identify the
> blank PC via the DHCP entries on the router.
>
> All of the above is just trying to find out whether Linux may actually
> have booted, but be unable to display anything.
>
> If it has not booted at all, the problem is very different.
>
Thank you!

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Re: How do you get 16.04 to boot?

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 20:00:58 -0700, Pastor JW wrote:
>It does a hard drive check then goes to a dark grey screen which
>remains unchanging.

Hi,

always? Even after booting with "upstart"? If you boot again without
"upstart" after booting with "upstart", the check runs again?

Just in case run

sudo apt update
sudo apt install smartmontools

and follow this guide:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Troubleshooting#File_Issues

It's unlikely an X issue, but just in case also run

  grep EE /var/log/Xorg.0.log

The Wiki of another distro describes how to use "journalctl":
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Systemd#Journal

It might be that Ubuntu's journalctl logs provide a different content,
than those Arch Wiki logs, but how to use the command is equal for all
distros.

More hints could be found here (but for the moment you could skip
reading those hints):
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/TroubleShooting#Ubuntu_troubleshooting

>nothing else comes on screen.  Yes the laptop screen is working.  The
>light on the keyboard comes on that says the wireless is turned on.
>However, the only way to get it to work is to hit the escape early, go
>to the advanced options and click on the the kernel choice that has
>"upstart" behind it, whatever that is, then it come with a ramdisk
>comment, then it brings up my login screen and and I can get online.
>I have to go through all these manual steps to make it work.

The ramdisk message likely is a bootloader message, just informing you
about what is done, it's much likely not an error message. You should
get the same message when not using "upstart".

"Upstart" "handles starting of tasks and services during boot" [1]. By
default 16.04 does not use "upstart". The default is "systemd". I'm
surprised that you could switch init systems.



"Switching init systems

If you are running Ubuntu vivid (15.04), you can easily switch between
upstart and systemd at will since both packages are installed at
present. As of March 9 2015, vivid was changed to use systemd by
default, before that upstart was the default.

Switch to upstart for a single boot

In grub, select "Advanced options for Ubuntu", where you will find an
"Ubuntu, with Linux ... (upstart)" entry. This will boot with
init=/sbin/upstart.

If you have upstart-sysv installed and thus boot with upstart by
default, there will be an "Ubuntu, with Linux ... (systemd)" entry,
which will boot with init=/lib/systemd/systemd.2"
- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemdForUpstartUsers#Switching_init_systems





The same Ubuntu wiki gives hints how to do the troubleshooting:



"Debugging

Since this implies the service works under Upstart but is problematic
under systemd, details of both systems are provided to allow for some
comparison.

Boot Time

Common Setup

Remove the following from the kernel command-line via the grub menu:

    "quiet"

    "splash"

Upstart

    Add "--debug to the kernel command-line via the grub menu.

    Optionally add "console=ttyS0 to the kernel command-line via the
    grub menu if you have a serial console.

systemd

    Add "systemd.log_level=debug  to the kernel command-line via the
    grub menu. Optionally add one of the following too:

        "systemd.log_target=kmsg"

        "systemd.log_target=console"

Starting a rescue shell

    Run:

           $ sudo systemctl enable debug-shell.service

    Reboot.
    If the system fails to boot, you can now switch to tty9
    (CTRL+ALT+F9) for a getty console login."
- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemdForUpstartUsers#Debugging





On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 16:07:48 -0700, Pastor JW wrote:
>On 07/01/2017 02:16 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> sudo systemd-nspawn -qD /mount/point  
>That actually does give an error,  ... "systemd-nspawn: command not
>found".

If the live media should be 16.04, too, you could install it by running

sudo apt update
sudo apt install systemd-container

https://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial-updates/systemd-container .

Regards,
Ralf

[1] http://upstart.ubuntu.com/


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Re: How do you get 16.04 to boot?

Ralf Mardorf-2
In reply to this post by Dick Dowdell
On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 18:40:27 -0400, Dick Dowdell wrote:
>I've been a professional software developer for over 40 years and I
>frequently examine problematic boot drives from another bootable
>system. Your advice is very much appreciated, but you might be a
>little less abrasive in your comments on other's efforts to help..

My apologies,

but IMO
https://askubuntu.com/questions/763638/no-more-boot-logging-since-16-04
is a disgusting guide how to start the troubleshooting. Actually taking
a look at the messages we get from the bootloader and/or startup
process is the first thing to do, respl. if there should be no messages
at all, perhaps even not a BIOS message, than following Karl's hints
should be done.

A log file could be very long and contain information that is even
confusing for experienced users. The startup messages often are a clear
pointer. Sometimes the messages show that a service fails to start again
and again. Those messages are not necessarily the last messages before
the system hangs, so they are not necessarily that easy to recognise
when checking log files.

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: How do you get 16.04 to boot?

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 08:21:08 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>if there should be no messages at all, perhaps even not a BIOS
>message, than following Karl's hints should be done.

Apart from displayed messages, the BIOS might provide useful beep
messages. Anyway, since the OP gets startup output neither Karl's
hints, nor beeps should be relevant at the moment.


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Re: How do you get 16.04 to boot?

Ralf Mardorf-2
In reply to this post by Ralf Mardorf-2
On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 14:45:50 -0700, Pastor JW wrote:
>That is closer to what is wrong rather than logging, although I can't
>find error messages in the log.  14.04 used to boot fine but the
>upgrade to 16.04 no longer does that.  Grub evidently no longer works
>for some reason.  Using the escape key to get advanced options, only
>the one that says "upstart" will work but that is always a manual
>thing instead of a boot script.  I've tried everything in the recovery
>menu to try and fix it but nothing. There is evidently no working
>bootloader anymore in 16.04.

Please, reply to the mailing list.

I nearly missed this reply, because it was in the wrong folder of my
MUA.

I'm sending my reply to the mailing list ;).

You described that a disk check starts to run, when using a boot menu
entry without upstart, however, just in case upload /boot/grub/grub.cfg
to e.g. https://pastebin.com/ and post the link to the mailing list.


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Re: How do you get 16.04 to boot?

Xen
In reply to this post by Pastor JW-2
Pastor JW schreef op 02-07-2017 5:00:

> It does a hard drive check then goes to a dark grey screen which
> remains unchanging.  nothing else comes on screen.  Yes the laptop
> screen is working.  The light on the keyboard comes on that says the
> wireless is turned on.  However, the only way to get it to work is to
> hit the escape early, go to the advanced options and click on the the
> kernel choice that has "upstart" behind it, whatever that is, then it
> come with a ramdisk comment, then it brings up my login screen and and
> I can get online.  I have to go through all these manual steps to make
> it work.

To be honest here: you have a systemd configuration issue, Grub actually
does work, and if you could make your upstart choice the default your
problems would immediately be solved.

I would appreciate someone who could point this user to making the
upstart entry the default boot entry.

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Re: How do you get 16.04 to boot?

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Sun, 02 Jul 2017 10:47:36 +0200, Xen wrote:
>To be honest here: you have a systemd configuration issue, Grub
>actually does work, and if you could make your upstart choice the
>default your problems would immediately be solved.
>
>I would appreciate someone who could point this user to making the
>upstart entry the default boot entry.

Hi,

"Permanent switch back to upstart

Install the upstart-sysv package, which will remove ubuntu-standard and
systemd-sysv (but should not remove anything else -- if it does,
yell!), and run sudo update-initramfs -u. After that, grub's "Advanced
options" menu will have a corresponding "Ubuntu, with Linux ...
(systemd)" entry where you can do an one-time boot with systemd.

If you want to switch back to systemd, install the systemd-sysv and
ubuntu-standard packages." -
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SystemdForUpstartUsers#Permanent_switch_back_to_upstart

I don't know if this works, but even if it should work, I don't
recommend to switch to upstart. IMO it's better to troubleshoot and fix
the systemd issue.

The package still is available for xenial,
https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=xenial-updates&searchon=names&keywords=upstart-sysv ,
but not for yakkety, so a release upgrade would become tricky.

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: How do you get 16.04 to boot?

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Pastor JW-2
On 1 July 2017 at 21:55, Pastor JW <[hidden email]> wrote:
> For some reason 16.04 has never booted since it went on.  It will sit for
> hours with nothing coming on the screen, no prompt for user password or any
> login screen.

I am guessing there are other distros or OSes on the machine?

Is this a clean copy, or an upgrade?

Release version, or 16.04-1 or 16.04-2?

Will any of those boot off removable media?

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Re: How do you get 16.04 to boot?

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 12:42:45 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:
>Is this a clean copy, or an upgrade?

Maybe a release upgrade?

Take a look at

https://serverfault.com/questions/778198/systemd-not-working-after-ubuntu-14-04-to-16-04-upgrade

Before you run the following commands, wait for another reply from the
list, from somebody who verified my hints, to ensure I didn't make a
mistake by accident.

Even if it wasn't a release upgrade, run

  sudo apt clean
  sudo apt update
  sudo apt install --fix-broken
  sudo apt --reinstall install systemd-sysv ubuntu-standard
  sudo apt full-upgrade

if this shouldn't work try running

  sudo apt autoremove
  sudo apt update
  sudo apt install --fix-broken
  sudo apt --reinstall install systemd-sysv ubuntu-standard
  sudo apt full-upgrade

if this shouldn't work, ensure that no third party packages are
installed and no packages are held.

For testing purpose you simply could move away (don't delete it)
your /etc/apt/sources.list and copy the repositories I'm using, to edit
a new /etc/apt/sources.list.

  grep -v "#" /etc/apt/sources.list



deb http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ xenial main restricted
deb-src http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ xenial main restricted

deb http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ xenial-updates main restricted
deb-src http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ xenial-updates main restricted

deb http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ xenial universe
deb-src http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ xenial universe
deb http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ xenial-updates universe
deb-src http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ xenial-updates universe

deb http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ xenial multiverse
deb-src http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ xenial multiverse
deb http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ xenial-updates multiverse
deb-src http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ xenial-updates multiverse

deb http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ xenial-backports main restricted universe multiverse
deb-src http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ xenial-backports main restricted universe multiverse

deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial-security main restricted
deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial-security main restricted
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial-security universe
deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial-security universe
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial-security multiverse
deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu xenial-security multiverse


Also move away any third party repository, if there should be one
in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* .

  grep -v "#" /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*

then run

  sudo apt autoremove
  sudo apt update
  sudo apt install --fix-broken
  sudo apt --reinstall --ignore-hold install systemd-sysv ubuntu-standard
  sudo apt full-upgrade

Regards,
Ralf

PS: Similar issue, but vice versa, so be careful, respl. consider to make
a full backup, if you want to migrate permanently to upstart:

https://askubuntu.com/questions/760615/ubuntu-16-04lts-does-not-boot-after-package-upstart-sysv-is-installed


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Re: How do you get 16.04 to boot?

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Sun, 2 Jul 2017 13:46:20 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>  sudo apt autoremove

When running this, be aware that if you compiled software against
automatically installed packages, without building a package including
the dependencies and that aren't required by any other package,
this software could get broken.

>deb http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ xenial-backports main
>restricted universe multiverse deb-src
>http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ xenial-backports main restricted
>universe multiverse

I made a mistake. Don't copy the backports repositories.


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Re: How do you get 16.04 to boot?

Xen
In reply to this post by Ralf Mardorf-2
Ralf Mardorf schreef op 02-07-2017 11:55:

> Install the upstart-sysv package, which will remove ubuntu-standard and
> systemd-sysv (but should not remove anything else -- if it does,
> yell!), and run sudo update-initramfs -u. After that, grub's "Advanced
> options" menu will have a corresponding "Ubuntu, with Linux ...
> (systemd)" entry where you can do an one-time boot with systemd.

I was actually just asking for a Grub menu option, but maybe this does
that thing.

> I don't know if this works, but even if it should work, I don't
> recommend to switch to upstart. IMO it's better to troubleshoot and fix
> the systemd issue.

I understand, but maybe the user is content with a simple fix if the
rest of the system doesn't change anyway.

Most of the other commands you mention in the other email are ordinary
apt troubleshooting commands, I guess, and it can't hurt to run them.

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Re: How do you get 16.04 to boot?

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Sun, 02 Jul 2017 15:46:19 +0200, Xen wrote:
>I was actually just asking for a Grub menu option

That's a better temporary workaround. Since it's possible to edit
grub.cfg this way, it also should be possible to edit the grub configs
for the grub config, e.g. by enabling to automatically boot the last
booted entry. However, when I used grub, I edited menu.lst and grub.cfg
directly, I never used the configuration files for the configuration,
let alone that I migrated to syslinux. Lets ask Ubuntu:
https://askubuntu.com/questions/148662/how-to-get-grub2-to-remember-last-choice


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