I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

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I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

Alberto Salvia Novella
Many people has been complaining through the years about not knowing how
to report bugs in Ubuntu. I have been asking those people why is that,
and they usually told me that the reporting bugs guide was too long,
hard to skim, and nobody would be willing to read it.

It wasn't till I putted a video-tutorial on the top of the page when
people stopped complaining about it. But that's just a dirty work-around
and shows that the guide doesn't fit well the average user needs.


So for:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs

I have written an improved version:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs


The criteria I have used has been:
- Adequate for the average person (https://goo.gl/GmzLhb)
- Fits 95% of cases, and leaves the rare ones out.
- Easy and straightforward, over correct.
- Removing the already guided steps by applications themselves.
- Removing the procedures only interesting for triagers.
- If something is unclear if it's useful, adding it when it shows to be.


Please have a look at it and tell me if you see something painful
missing. Thank you.



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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

C de-Avillez-2
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 09:43:21 +0200
Alberto Salvia Novella <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Many people has been complaining through the years about not knowing
> how to report bugs in Ubuntu. I have been asking those people why is
> that, and they usually told me that the reporting bugs guide was too
> long, hard to skim, and nobody would be willing to read it.

> It wasn't till I putted a video-tutorial on the top of the page when
> people stopped complaining about it. But that's just a dirty
> work-around and shows that the guide doesn't fit well the average
> user needs.
>
>
> So for:
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
>
> I have written an improved version:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs
>
>
> The criteria I have used has been:
> - Adequate for the average person (https://goo.gl/GmzLhb)
> - Fits 95% of cases, and leaves the rare ones out.
> - Easy and straightforward, over correct.
> - Removing the already guided steps by applications themselves.
> - Removing the procedures only interesting for triagers.
> - If something is unclear if it's useful, adding it when it shows to
> be.
>
>
> Please have a look at it and tell me if you see something painful
> missing. Thank you.
Quite simple indeed.

One single thing at the moment (until I digest it all, including the
potential impacts): we should *not* announce how to directly enter a
bug in LP. Use ubuntu-bug. Otherwise, use ubuntu-bug.

You are making filing a bug available to the average user, whatever an
average user is. We know, already, that -- per your own words above --
these are the users that cannot read anything with many pages,
paragraphs, sentences, words. If you allow these users to directly open
bugs on LP (as opposed to using ubuntu-bug), then you taking out the
*only* way we can guarantee a *minimum* of hard data about the
system/progam/package affected.

Cheers,

..C..

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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

Alberto Salvia Novella
In reply to this post by Alberto Salvia Novella
Chris Hermansen has pointed out that one of the problems with reporting
bugs is that many people won't take the time to file a bug report, but
instead they would look for a kick work around and never report.

Curiously, when I showed the proposed draft for the bug reporting guide
to my brother, he mentioned something similar. He said that it would be
good having something extra for motivating people to report.

I feel those views are pretty accurate. I think many people will only
report only when it hurts so hard, and only after Ubuntu has been
released. Then everyone will start complaining about Ubuntu being
unstable, but what really happened is that nobody reported some of the
important issues with enough time to fix them.

So I came up with a solution for that, which is to include a poster on
the bottom of the page, used on World War to encourage workers to pay
attention to the minor problems.

I think it's an atypical fix, but that it would do well on raising
awareness about the importance of reporting the bugs.

(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs)



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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

Peter Matulis-5
I personally don't see that image being effective in achieving your
objective. It's a bit sublime. Also, the sauwastika also seems "off"
somehow.

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Alberto Salvia Novella <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Chris Hermansen has pointed out that one of the problems with reporting
> bugs is that many people won't take the time to file a bug report, but
> instead they would look for a kick work around and never report.
>
> Curiously, when I showed the proposed draft for the bug reporting guide to
> my brother, he mentioned something similar. He said that it would be good
> having something extra for motivating people to report.
>
> I feel those views are pretty accurate. I think many people will only
> report only when it hurts so hard, and only after Ubuntu has been released.
> Then everyone will start complaining about Ubuntu being unstable, but what
> really happened is that nobody reported some of the important issues with
> enough time to fix them.
>
> So I came up with a solution for that, which is to include a poster on the
> bottom of the page, used on World War to encourage workers to pay attention
> to the minor problems.
>
> I think it's an atypical fix, but that it would do well on raising
> awareness about the importance of reporting the bugs.
>
> (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs)
>
>
>
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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

Alberto Salvia Novella
C de-Avillez:
 > We should *not* announce how to directly enter a bug in LP.

If the system isn't functional reporting directly to Launchpad would be
the only available method, although I agree that option should be
presented as the last resort.

I have clarified it:
(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs#For_unusable_systems)


Peter Matulis:
> I personally don't see that image being effective in achieving your
> objective. It's a bit sublime. Also, the sauwastika also seems "off"
> somehow.

My brother mentioned the same, although he said it was better having
that than nothing. He said it was a bit hard for him to see the link,
even when it was there. He also suggested the possibility of making
something customised.

Perhaps I'm the only person understanding the context of that blueprint,
as I have seen the rest of them.

Do you feel any of these does it better?
(https://www.google.es/search?tbm=isch&q=blueprint+of+victory+wikimedia)




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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

Alvaro "Effenberg0x0" Leal
I' m sorry, I don' t normally participate on this mailing list and I' m
probably breaking all of your community rules and formatting standards
here. Really sorry about that.

I just wanted to say that I can' t believe someone is actually planning to
put a Nazi Swastika in the Ubuntu Wiki. Have you people lost your minds?

As an Ubuntu Member, I think that' s insane and unprofessional. I think the
Community Council needs to intervene here ASAP (and I ask this mailing list
administrator, whoever it is, to please do so - thank you). I don' t care
about the context, the underlying message, freedom of speech or whatever.
This is unacceptable.

And, as a normal human being on earth in 2017, I find it simply DISGUSTING.
I haven' t seen anything like that ever in the Ubuntu community. I can' t
believe an Ubuntu member thinks this is a good idea for the Ubuntu and QA
community. i
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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

Alberto Salvia Novella
Alvaro Leal:
> I just wanted to say that I can' t believe someone is actually planning to
> put a Nazi Swastika in the Ubuntu Wiki. Have you people lost your minds?

My answer:
https://youtu.be/aPhefCenly4




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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

Alvaro "Effenberg0x0" Leal
Why did you make a video? Is this some sort of manifesto or something? Look
I won' t watch your video, this is not normal. Please write something or
not, but just please refrain from putting a nazi swastika on Ubuntu Wiki
and it's over ok? Thanks.



On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 4:51 PM Alberto Salvia Novella <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Alvaro Leal:
> > I just wanted to say that I can' t believe someone is actually planning
> to
> > put a Nazi Swastika in the Ubuntu Wiki. Have you people lost your minds?
>
> My answer:
> https://youtu.be/aPhefCenly4
>
>
>
>
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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

Thomas Ward
Alright guys let's all calm down and stop sniping at each other, I don't have to want to call for moderation of the list again.

That said, I have my own concerns by using the swastika.  While the purest form of the swastika comes from non-Nazi religious symbols, we should avoid using it because of the way it was twisted during the late 30s and 40s.  Keeping it in will cause debates such as these which already started here which should not be taking place.

The rule of thumb in the world is "if it will potentially be seen as extremely offensive don't even go anywhere near there."  This is the rule which is being broken here.

I have yet to review the draft due to time constraints but I feel that a majority of the community will agree with me on this one - the swastika is a "no go" so it should be pulled from any Ubuntu documentation, draft or not.


Thomas



*Sent from my iPhone.  Please excuse any typos, as they are likely to happen by accident.*

> On Apr 26, 2017, at 20:15, Alvaro Effenberg0x0 Leal <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Why did you make a video? Is this some sort of manifesto or something? Look
> I won' t watch your video, this is not normal. Please write something or
> not, but just please refrain from putting a nazi swastika on Ubuntu Wiki
> and it's over ok? Thanks.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 4:51 PM Alberto Salvia Novella <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Alvaro Leal:
>>> I just wanted to say that I can' t believe someone is actually planning
>> to
>>> put a Nazi Swastika in the Ubuntu Wiki. Have you people lost your minds?
>>
>> My answer:
>> https://youtu.be/aPhefCenly4
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

Alberto Salvia Novella
In reply to this post by Alvaro "Effenberg0x0" Leal
Thomas Ward:
 > While the purest form of the swastika comes from non-Nazi religious
 > symbols, we should avoid using it because of the way it was twisted
 > during the late 30s and 40s.

The reason why the swastika is there is because that image is an
original blueprint from World War 2, and if you see the rest of
blueprints you will realise that the symbol was drawn by the original
author in a joky tone. The same as I had put the Microsoft logo there
(which curiously looks very likely).

(https://www.google.es/search?tbm=isch&q=blueprint+of+victory+wikimedia)


Alvaro Leal:
> Why did you make a video?

Because it's my choice, and you respect that. The same as you respect my
work, instead of going and destroying it.

Because the next email I'm going to read from you is going to have an
apology as title.




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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

Alberto Salvia Novella
Alberto:
> The reason why the swastika is there is because that image is an
> original blueprint from World War 2

Forgot to mention that I have no problem changing or removing it if needed.




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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

C de-Avillez-2
In reply to this post by Alberto Salvia Novella
On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 04:41:19 +0200
Alberto Salvia Novella <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thomas Ward:
>  > While the purest form of the swastika comes from non-Nazi religious
>  > symbols, we should avoid using it because of the way it was twisted
>  > during the late 30s and 40s.  
>
> The reason why the swastika is there is because that image is an
> original blueprint from World War 2, and if you see the rest of
> blueprints you will realise that the symbol was drawn by the original
> author in a joky tone. The same as I had put the Microsoft logo there
> (which curiously looks very likely).
The swastika has to go.

*ANY* religious or political image, logo, or whatever should never be
used here.

The swastika, independent of where/when it was created, now symbolises a
dark time. Some -- myself included -- consider it abhorrent; in my
case, for personal family reasons.

>
> (https://www.google.es/search?tbm=isch&q=blueprint+of+victory+wikimedia)
>
>
> Alvaro Leal:
> > Why did you make a video?  
>
> Because it's my choice, and you respect that. The same as you respect
> my work, instead of going and destroying it.

>
> Because the next email I'm going to read from you is going to have an
> apology as title.

? Please calm down both Alvaro and Alberto. You may like videos for
personal reasons. Others may not. But this does not give any of you the
right to be offensive.

Cheers,

..C..

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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

Alvaro "Effenberg0x0" Leal
*Alberto: Just wanted to point out that I have never destroyed your work.
If you look at the history of your wiki page (see
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs?action=info
<https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs?action=info>) you
will see that I am NOT the one the Launchpad user who deleted your art.
Looking athis same Log, I see you have reverted the last change and got
back the work you thought you had lost. Good for you.C de-Avillez: You got
it :) It's over for me here. I' ll take it to Community Council.*
On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 8:01 PM C de-Avillez <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 04:41:19 +0200
> Alberto Salvia Novella <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Thomas Ward:
> >  > While the purest form of the swastika comes from non-Nazi religious
> >  > symbols, we should avoid using it because of the way it was twisted
> >  > during the late 30s and 40s.
> >
> > The reason why the swastika is there is because that image is an
> > original blueprint from World War 2, and if you see the rest of
> > blueprints you will realise that the symbol was drawn by the original
> > author in a joky tone. The same as I had put the Microsoft logo there
> > (which curiously looks very likely).
>
> The swastika has to go.
>
> *ANY* religious or political image, logo, or whatever should never be
> used here.
>
> The swastika, independent of where/when it was created, now symbolises a
> dark time. Some -- myself included -- consider it abhorrent; in my
> case, for personal family reasons.
>
> >
> > (https://www.google.es/search?tbm=isch&q=blueprint+of+victory+wikimedia)
> >
> >
> > Alvaro Leal:
> > > Why did you make a video?
> >
> > Because it's my choice, and you respect that. The same as you respect
> > my work, instead of going and destroying it.
>
> >
> > Because the next email I'm going to read from you is going to have an
> > apology as title.
>
> ? Please calm down both Alvaro and Alberto. You may like videos for
> personal reasons. Others may not. But this does not give any of you the
> right to be offensive.
>
> Cheers,
>
> ..C..
>
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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

Alberto Salvia Novella
In reply to this post by C de-Avillez-2
C de-Avillez:
> The swastika, independent of where/when it was created, now symbolises a
> dark time. Some -- myself included -- consider it abhorrent; in my
> case, for personal family reasons.

I understand. I have removed it in favour of something less invasive.

First I tried erasing only the swastika, so it was more neutral. But
then the rounded centred nature of the spider took too much attention
from the composition. So I have added an "abdomen reflection" to compensate.

And even if we finally decide not to include it on the guide, I have
uploaded it to Wikimedia, so someone could find use for it.

(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs)




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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

Nicholas Skaggs
Alberto, I didn't see the artwork in question as I'm late to the thread.
However I did look at the guide just now. I don't think you need any
artwork on the page and as such I have removed it, given it's negative
response in this thread. I can appreciate all kinds of art, but there's
no reason to have it in a bug reporting guide. I also believe wiki
etiquette would dictate that you attach the image, rather than hotlink.

That said, you are certainly free to craft the page under your namespace
to your liking (within reason). However, as the wiki is intended to be a
collaborative help guide for ubuntu, I would encourage you to continue
your efforts to improving the bug reporting guide itself, as opposed to
bikeshedding about artwork or making yet another page. I suspect you'll
find conversations on improving the bug reporting guide to be more
fruitful and receptive.

You may find these useful as well; it's used in conjunction with the
reporting bugs page for reporting bugs for image testing. It's been
collaboratively improved by several members into something rather nice.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Overview/Install_Bugs

See for example, the 'find a bug?' header on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/; 
see how it works and where it links?

Nicholas

P.S. It's nice to see some old and familiar names come through my inbox!

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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

Peter Matulis-5
In reply to this post by Thomas Ward
Let me offer some clarity and history on this symbol. In my previous post I
referred to it as the sauwastika. Note the alternate spelling. This is the
left-facing symbol that was never used by National Socialism. It is
pervasive in Buddhist iconography. It was the right-facing Hindu and
Jainism symbol was hijacked in the 1930s by the Nazi Party. Although I
agree that what's important is the meaning the average person will ascribe
to it, which evidently is Nazi Germany. With that, let's drop it and move
on.

On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 9:46 PM, Thomas Ward <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Alright guys let's all calm down and stop sniping at each other, I don't
> have to want to call for moderation of the list again.
>
> That said, I have my own concerns by using the swastika.  While the purest
> form of the swastika comes from non-Nazi religious symbols, we should avoid
> using it because of the way it was twisted during the late 30s and 40s.
> Keeping it in will cause debates such as these which already started here
> which should not be taking place.
>
> The rule of thumb in the world is "if it will potentially be seen as
> extremely offensive don't even go anywhere near there."  This is the rule
> which is being broken here.
>
> I have yet to review the draft due to time constraints but I feel that a
> majority of the community will agree with me on this one - the swastika is
> a "no go" so it should be pulled from any Ubuntu documentation, draft or
> not.
>
>
> Thomas
>
>
>
> *Sent from my iPhone.  Please excuse any typos, as they are likely to
> happen by accident.*
>
> > On Apr 26, 2017, at 20:15, Alvaro Effenberg0x0 Leal <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Why did you make a video? Is this some sort of manifesto or something?
> Look
> > I won' t watch your video, this is not normal. Please write something or
> > not, but just please refrain from putting a nazi swastika on Ubuntu Wiki
> > and it's over ok? Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 4:51 PM Alberto Salvia Novella <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Alvaro Leal:
> >>> I just wanted to say that I can' t believe someone is actually planning
> >> to
> >>> put a Nazi Swastika in the Ubuntu Wiki. Have you people lost your
> minds?
> >>
> >> My answer:
> >> https://youtu.be/aPhefCenly4
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

Alberto Salvia Novella
In reply to this post by Nicholas Skaggs
Nicholas Skaggs:
> I don't think you need any artwork on the page and as such I have
> removed it, given it's negative response in this thread.

https://youtu.be/IGOsXqktN1M




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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

Henry Schaffer
In reply to this post by Nicholas Skaggs
I lurk on this list - but I've got to briefly emerge to thank Nicholas for
teaching me a new term "bikeshedding". I didn't know this Parkinson's Law.
(For those who also weren't aware
http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/Parkinsons-law-of-triviality-bikeshedding
)

--henry

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Nicholas Skaggs <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Alberto, I didn't see the artwork in question as I'm late to the thread.
> However I did look at the guide just now. I don't think you need any
> artwork on the page and as such I have removed it, given it's negative
> response in this thread. I can appreciate all kinds of art, but there's no
> reason to have it in a bug reporting guide. I also believe wiki etiquette
> would dictate that you attach the image, rather than hotlink.
>
> That said, you are certainly free to craft the page under your namespace
> to your liking (within reason). However, as the wiki is intended to be a
> collaborative help guide for ubuntu, I would encourage you to continue your
> efforts to improving the bug reporting guide itself, as opposed to
> bikeshedding about artwork or making yet another page. I suspect you'll
> find conversations on improving the bug reporting guide to be more fruitful
> and receptive.
>
> You may find these useful as well; it's used in conjunction with the
> reporting bugs page for reporting bugs for image testing. It's been
> collaboratively improved by several members into something rather nice.
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/FindRightPackage
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Overview/Install_Bugs
>
> See for example, the 'find a bug?' header on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/;
> see how it works and where it links?
>
> Nicholas
>
> P.S. It's nice to see some old and familiar names come through my inbox!
>
> --
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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

Alberto Salvia Novella
Nicholas Skaggs:
> I would encourage you to continue your efforts to improving the bug
> reporting guide itself, as opposed to bikeshedding about artwork or
> making yet another page.

I mean this draft is intended to substitute the official reporting
guide, once agreed.




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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

Alberto Salvia Novella
I have came up with an alternate way to encourage people to report bugs.
It's the second point in the Etiquette section:

(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs)



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