IPv6 for country mirrors

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IPv6 for country mirrors

Michael Hock
Hi all,

I hope this is the right place to discuss this.
I'm responsible for a couple of hundred servers which run ubuntu server 16.04/18.04/20.04. Also there are many virtual machines running, including databases, webservers, monitoring, ... but most of them only have IPv6 connectivity to the public internet. As all of you might know, for leased IPv4 addresses you usually have to pay some money and for many (internal) services IPv4 is just not needed any more.

So the problem here is, most of the country specific ubuntu mirrors are not IPv6 enabled. So what are we doing? In our head location we use IPv4 NAT (country mirror not providing IPv6 there), in remote locations "just use the US mirror, it has IPv6".

Would it be possible to provide sort of a fallback IPv6 address for all the country specific mirrors, so it would at least work if there is only IPv6 connectivity to the public internet?
Reaching out to individual mirror operators was not successful (tried to contact a few, they're not seeing it in their responsibility to provide IPv6 connectivity to their mirrors).

I would provide a couple of IPv6 only mirrors for some locations by myself, but of course it's impossible for me to provide mirrors for every country.
So I hope there are more people willing to either upgrade their current mirrors to also provide IPv6, or to set up additional (IPv6 only) mirrors which are then added as DNS AAAA records to existing country specific mirrors.

Looking forward to hear your opinion on this.

Best regards,
Michael Hock

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Re: IPv6 for country mirrors

Moshe M. Katz
I would love to upgrade our mirror to have IPv6, but our upstream provider doesn't support it yet. I suspect that is true for a lot of other mirrors as well. (I'm US-based, so that doesn't help your specific use-case anyway, but I still want to do it as soon as possible.)

It seems that many (though not all) Internet Service Providers have fallen into one of two extremes - some have embraced IPv6 and fully deployed it, while others have totally ignored it or have been "in the process of testing and deployment" for at least 10-15 years.

In my case, with a University-run network, we have IPv6 addresses allocated to the University, but the people in the Network Operations Center are so used to how they have been managing their old network -- with two /16 blocks, one /19 block, one /21 block, and one /23 block of public IPv4 addresses (that's over 140,000 addresses) and hundreds of thousands of private IPv4 addresses in use -- that they just can't understand why anyone would need anything different.

I suspect that many of the mirror operators you contacted are in the same boat as myself. They aren't able to provide IPv6 because they haven't been given the addresses to do so, and therefore they just don't know how to help you.

Moshe

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On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 9:12 PM Michael Hock <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

I hope this is the right place to discuss this.
I'm responsible for a couple of hundred servers which run ubuntu server 16.04/18.04/20.04. Also there are many virtual machines running, including databases, webservers, monitoring, ... but most of them only have IPv6 connectivity to the public internet. As all of you might know, for leased IPv4 addresses you usually have to pay some money and for many (internal) services IPv4 is just not needed any more.

So the problem here is, most of the country specific ubuntu mirrors are not IPv6 enabled. So what are we doing? In our head location we use IPv4 NAT (country mirror not providing IPv6 there), in remote locations "just use the US mirror, it has IPv6".

Would it be possible to provide sort of a fallback IPv6 address for all the country specific mirrors, so it would at least work if there is only IPv6 connectivity to the public internet?
Reaching out to individual mirror operators was not successful (tried to contact a few, they're not seeing it in their responsibility to provide IPv6 connectivity to their mirrors).

I would provide a couple of IPv6 only mirrors for some locations by myself, but of course it's impossible for me to provide mirrors for every country.
So I hope there are more people willing to either upgrade their current mirrors to also provide IPv6, or to set up additional (IPv6 only) mirrors which are then added as DNS AAAA records to existing country specific mirrors.

Looking forward to hear your opinion on this.

Best regards,
Michael Hock
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Re: IPv6 for country mirrors

Jonathan Sélea
In reply to this post by Michael Hock
Hi!
This might not be an answer to the question, but maybe a solution for your problem atleast.

Have you tried using apt-cacher-ng for you environment and proxy all the apt traffic via that server?

Regards / Jonathan


On May 3, 2020 3:56:25 PM GMT+02:00, Michael Hock <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

I hope this is the right place to discuss this.
I'm responsible for a couple of hundred servers which run ubuntu server 16.04/18.04/20.04. Also there are many virtual machines running, including databases, webservers, monitoring, ... but most of them only have IPv6 connectivity to the public internet. As all of you might know, for leased IPv4 addresses you usually have to pay some money and for many (internal) services IPv4 is just not needed any more.

So the problem here is, most of the country specific ubuntu mirrors are not IPv6 enabled. So what are we doing? In our head location we use IPv4 NAT (country mirror not providing IPv6 there), in remote locations "just use the US mirror, it has IPv6".

Would it be possible to provide sort of a fallback IPv6 address for all the country specific mirrors, so it would at least work if there is only IPv6 connectivity to the public internet?
Reaching out to individual mirror operators was not successful (tried to contact a few, they're not seeing it in their responsibility to provide IPv6 connectivity to their mirrors).

I would provide a couple of IPv6 only mirrors for some locations by myself, but of course it's impossible for me to provide mirrors for every country.
So I hope there are more people willing to either upgrade their current mirrors to also provide IPv6, or to set up additional (IPv6 only) mirrors which are then added as DNS AAAA records to existing country specific mirrors.

Looking forward to hear your opinion on this.

Best regards,
Michael Hock

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Re: IPv6 for country mirrors

Berge Schwebs Bjørlo
In reply to this post by Michael Hock
On Sun, May 03, 2020 at 03:56:25PM +0200, Michael Hock wrote:
> Would it be possible to provide sort of a fallback IPv6 address for all the
> country specific mirrors, so it would at least work if there is only IPv6
> connectivity to the public internet?

The problem with that approach is that clients will default to IPv6. Imagine
a client in a country that good local IPv4 connectivity and a local country
mirror, but poor (or expensive) international (IPv6) connectivity. A
dual-stack client would be much better off using the nearby IPv4 mirror.

> Reaching out to individual mirror operators was not successful (tried to
> contact a few, they're not seeing it in their responsibility to provide
> IPv6 connectivity to their mirrors).

Note that a few big and high capacity mirrors do have v6 connectivity, at
least in Europe – the NL, DK, SE and NO mirrors has a combined capacity of
60Gbit high-quality IPv6 connectivity, and the main mirrors
(archive.ubuntu.com) are also v6-enabled.

The big cloud providers also has some v6 mirrors;
https://packages.cloud.google.com/apt/dists/ubuntu-bionic-mirror/ comes to
mind. It's probably anycasted around the world.

> So I hope there are more people willing to either upgrade their current
> mirrors to also provide IPv6, or to set up additional (IPv6 only) mirrors
> which are then added as DNS AAAA records to existing country specific
> mirrors.

I guess one possibility is to have a v6-only DNS tree for it, such as
<countrycode>.v6.archive.ubuntu.com, with defaults for big country mirrors.

-Berge
(not a Canonical employee, just a random mirror operator)

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Re: IPv6 for country mirrors

Carlos-3
In reply to this post by Michael Hock
This IPv6 absence really sucks, particularly in the US...

I have no idea about international traffic restrictions you might have but we
(br.archive.ubuntu.com) have a 20Gb/s link until Miami so you should get good
service from us.

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Re: IPv6 for country mirrors

Carlos Carvalho-3
In reply to this post by Michael Hock
This IPv6 absence really sucks, particularly in the US...

I have no idea about international traffic restrictions you might have but we
(br.archive.ubuntu.com) have a 20Gb/s link until Miami so you should get good
service from us.

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Re: IPv6 for country mirrors

Vivien GUEANT - LaFibre.info
In reply to this post by Michael Hock
Hello,

I propose to put in the prerequisites of "country mirror" to offer IPv6
starting from January 1, 2021.

There are relatively few countries where the default server does not
offer IPv6, this concerns 18 countries: Azerbaijan, Belarus, Costa Rica,
Croatia, Estonia, Georgia, Germany, Greenland, Japan, Kuwait, Latvia,
Nepal, Portugal, Romania, Serbia, Turkey, Ukraine and Uzbekistan.

This is very surprising for Germany, a country where there are ten
mirrors with 10 Gbps (they all offer IPv6 except two).

If a mirror does not offer IPv6 on January 2021, I suggest to replace it
by another voluntary host which offers IPv6 or by Canonical servers,
already used as "country mirror" in many countries (United States,
Canada, Mexico, China, United Kingdom, Spain, Hungary, Czech Republic,...)

Statistics on the "country mirror" are attached.

The absence of IPv6 is blocking for servers that no longer have IPv4
connectivity, as Michael Hock explains :

Le 03/05/2020 à 15:56, Michael Hock a écrit :

> Hi all,
>
> I hope this is the right place to discuss this.
> I'm responsible for a couple of hundred servers which run ubuntu
> server 16.04/18.04/20.04. Also there are many virtual machines
> running, including databases, webservers, monitoring, ... but most of
> them only have IPv6 connectivity to the public internet. As all of you
> might know, for leased IPv4 addresses you usually have to pay some
> money and for many (internal) services IPv4 is just not needed any more.
>
> So the problem here is, most of the country specific ubuntu mirrors
> are not IPv6 enabled. So what are we doing? In our head location we
> use IPv4 NAT (country mirror not providing IPv6 there), in remote
> locations "just use the US mirror, it has IPv6".
>
> Would it be possible to provide sort of a fallback IPv6 address for
> all the country specific mirrors, so it would at least work if there
> is only IPv6 connectivity to the public internet?
> Reaching out to individual mirror operators was not successful (tried
> to contact a few, they're not seeing it in their responsibility to
> provide IPv6 connectivity to their mirrors).
>
> I would provide a couple of IPv6 only mirrors for some locations by
> myself, but of course it's impossible for me to provide mirrors for
> every country.
> So I hope there are more people willing to either upgrade their
> current mirrors to also provide IPv6, or to set up additional (IPv6
> only) mirrors which are then added as DNS AAAA records to existing
> country specific mirrors.
>
> Looking forward to hear your opinion on this.
Best regards,
Vivien GUEANT (not a Canonical employee, just a mirror operator of
fr.archive.ubuntu.com)

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Official Archive Mirrors for Ubuntu.ods (40K) Download Attachment
Official Archive Mirrors for Ubuntu.pdf (71K) Download Attachment
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Re: IPv6 for country mirrors

PCextreme B.V. - Wido den Hollander


On 5/13/20 4:58 PM, Vivien GUEANT - LaFibre.info wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I propose to put in the prerequisites of "country mirror" to offer IPv6
> starting from January 1, 2021.
>
> There are relatively few countries where the default server does not
> offer IPv6, this concerns 18 countries: Azerbaijan, Belarus, Costa Rica,
> Croatia, Estonia, Georgia, Germany, Greenland, Japan, Kuwait, Latvia,
> Nepal, Portugal, Romania, Serbia, Turkey, Ukraine and Uzbekistan.
>
> This is very surprising for Germany, a country where there are ten
> mirrors with 10 Gbps (they all offer IPv6 except two).
>
> If a mirror does not offer IPv6 on January 2021, I suggest to replace it
> by another voluntary host which offers IPv6 or by Canonical servers,
> already used as "country mirror" in many countries (United States,
> Canada, Mexico, China, United Kingdom, Spain, Hungary, Czech Republic,...)
>
> Statistics on the "country mirror" are attached.
>
> The absence of IPv6 is blocking for servers that no longer have IPv4
> connectivity, as Michael Hock explains :

I totally agree. I/we have many servers running which are IPv6-only.
Databases are a good example, but many other things we run are Ubuntu
systems with IPv6-only.

The mirrors in The Netherlands all have IPv6, so that's good. But I'm
all up for setting IPv6 as mandatory start at date X.

Wido

>
> Le 03/05/2020 à 15:56, Michael Hock a écrit :
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I hope this is the right place to discuss this.
>> I'm responsible for a couple of hundred servers which run ubuntu
>> server 16.04/18.04/20.04. Also there are many virtual machines
>> running, including databases, webservers, monitoring, ... but most of
>> them only have IPv6 connectivity to the public internet. As all of you
>> might know, for leased IPv4 addresses you usually have to pay some
>> money and for many (internal) services IPv4 is just not needed any more.
>>
>> So the problem here is, most of the country specific ubuntu mirrors
>> are not IPv6 enabled. So what are we doing? In our head location we
>> use IPv4 NAT (country mirror not providing IPv6 there), in remote
>> locations "just use the US mirror, it has IPv6".
>>
>> Would it be possible to provide sort of a fallback IPv6 address for
>> all the country specific mirrors, so it would at least work if there
>> is only IPv6 connectivity to the public internet?
>> Reaching out to individual mirror operators was not successful (tried
>> to contact a few, they're not seeing it in their responsibility to
>> provide IPv6 connectivity to their mirrors).
>>
>> I would provide a couple of IPv6 only mirrors for some locations by
>> myself, but of course it's impossible for me to provide mirrors for
>> every country.
>> So I hope there are more people willing to either upgrade their
>> current mirrors to also provide IPv6, or to set up additional (IPv6
>> only) mirrors which are then added as DNS AAAA records to existing
>> country specific mirrors.
>>
>> Looking forward to hear your opinion on this.
>
> Best regards,
> Vivien GUEANT (not a Canonical employee, just a mirror operator of
> fr.archive.ubuntu.com)
>

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Re: IPv6 for country mirrors

Charlie Jonas
On 14/05/2020 08:44, Wido den Hollander wrote:

> On 5/13/20 4:58 PM, Vivien GUEANT - LaFibre.info wrote:
>> I propose to put in the prerequisites of "country mirror" to offer IPv6
>> starting from January 1, 2021.
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> The absence of IPv6 is blocking for servers that no longer have IPv4
>> connectivity
>
> I totally agree. I/we have many servers running which are IPv6-only.
> Databases are a good example, but many other things we run are Ubuntu
> systems with IPv6-only.
>

Strong agree from me as well.

IMHO the number of operators choosing to run servers with IPv6-only connectivity, even if it's just on internal networks, is likely to dramatically increase in coming years due to the increasing scarcity and cost associated with IPv4 addresses. In Europe, RIPE are handing out v6 address space like candy.

Many ISP are also now allocating IPv6 addresses to home users as well. Google tracks connectivity to their services [1] and their graphs clearly show an increase in IPv6 connectivity since the beginning of the worldwide COVID-19 lockdown, most likely a result of people working from home where they are statistically more likely to have an IPv6 address than at their employer's office premises.

Looking forwards, we should seek to support server operators and home users as best possible by utilizing their native v6 connectivity.

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[1] https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html

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Re: IPv6 for country mirrors

Petar Marić
In reply to this post by Michael Hock
Hey Vivien,

After clarification, here's a +1 for your proposal.

And thank you for the kind offer, I'll check again with our admins if IPv6 connectivity is feasible for ubuntu.mirror.ftn.uns.ac.rs

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