Im sorry

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Im sorry

Timothy Holmes
Liam

Im sorry, i cannot bottom post from my phoneb which is the only email access that I have. I get the picture you dont want me around, so ill find another source for my help

Thanks for your suggestion abt the drive, Ill take it most likely
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Sent from my LG Stylo


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Re: Im sorry

Colin Law
On 11 October 2016 at 13:58, Timothy Holmes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Liam
>
> Im sorry, i cannot bottom post from my phoneb which is the only email access
> that I have.

Are you using the gmail app?  If so then having clicked on Reply click
Respond Inline, which is at the bottom of the Compose box, and then
you can scroll down to the bottom, or to the appropriate place in the
previous post that your reply is relevant to.

 I get the picture you dont want me around, so ill find another
> source for my help

That is not true for any of us, it is just that it is much easier to
follow threads if replies are inline.  Anyone who really doesn't want
to see your messages will just set up a rule to send your mail
straight to the bin and will not start by trying to help as Liam did.

Colin

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Re: Im sorry

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Timothy Holmes
On 11 October 2016 at 14:58, Timothy Holmes <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Im sorry, i cannot bottom post from my phoneb which is the only email access
> that I have. I get the picture you dont want me around, so ill find another
> source for my help

What? No, not at all! You are very welcome here. I do not mean to
scare you or anyone away.

As far as asking questions, it is important to give as much
information as you can.

This article is controversial but still instructive:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

If you need to do mailing lists from an Android phone, you might find
KA9Q of help:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fsck.k9&hl=en

It handles bottom-posting well.

It *is* possible in the Gmail client, but it's fiddly. A keyboard with
cursor keys, such as Swype, helps a lot.

For what it's worth, I sometimes read mailing lists on my phone, but I
seldom comment because of the difficult of quoting properly. When I
do, I apologise and explain why. I recommend that approach to you.

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Email: [hidden email] • GMail/Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven
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Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)

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Re: Im sorry

Ralf Mardorf-2
Welcome Tim :)

On Tue, 11 Oct 2016 16:11:25 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:
>This article is controversial but still instructive:
>
>http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

this link might be semi-inappropriate for this user mailing list. I
guess learning by doing is the better approach for this list. Tim needs
only to understand, that he is welcome and that we usually have good
reasons, if we ask somebody to provide more information or want
somebody to care about posting style. There are Wiki articles available
about posting style, but lets stay with the Ubuntu recommendations.

The page to subscribe to this list [1] contains a link to FAQ. Those FAQ
Link to

  http://community.ubuntu.com/contribute/support/mailinglists/

Excerpts from the "Technical guidelines" of the above link:

"[snip] Write your email underneath the email which you are replying to
 [snip] remove any unnecessary text
 [snip] Avoid sending emails in HTML format
 [snip] When replying to messages, use [snip] Reply To List function
 [snip] When starting a new subject, do not reply to a previous email
 [snip] Replying to digest emails breaks the threading [2]
 [snip]"

Regards,
Ralf

[1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users

[2] A note from me, it's avoidable by using MIME Digest
    http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node28.html


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Re: Im sorry

Tom H-4
In reply to this post by Timothy Holmes
On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 8:58 AM, Timothy Holmes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Im sorry, i cannot bottom post from my phoneb which is the only email
> access that I have. I get the picture you dont want me around, so ill
> find another source for my help.

No one's said "stop asking for help."

Simply scroll down and write below the quoted text (after hitting
"Reply") so that the replies flow one below the other.

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Re: Im sorry

Joel Rees
In reply to this post by Ralf Mardorf-2
On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 11:40 PM, Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> [...]
>  [snip] Avoid sending emails in HTML format
> [...]

Anybody know how to do this with the Android gmail app?

--
Joel Rees

I'm imagining I'm a novelist:
http://joel-rees-economics.blogspot.com/2016/04/economics-101-novel-rough-draft-index.html

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Re: Im sorry

Gilles Gravier-2


On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Joel Rees <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 11:40 PM, Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> [...]
>  [snip] Avoid sending emails in HTML format
> [...]

Anybody know how to do this with the Android gmail app?


<SARCASM>
Move to 21st century? :) 
</SARCASM>

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Re: Im sorry

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Wed, 12 Oct 2016 16:50:36 +0200, Gilles Gravier wrote:

>On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Joel Rees <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 11:40 PM, Ralf Mardorf
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:  
>> > [...]
>> >  [snip] Avoid sending emails in HTML format
>> > [...]  
>>
>> Anybody know how to do this with the Android gmail app?
>>
>>  
><SARCASM>
>Move to 21st century? :)
></SARCASM>

Be aware that plain HTML mails are not displayed in a human readable
style, by the list's archive. Multipart is not the same as HTML only.

FWIW assuming the web interface of gmail should provide plain text and
the Android app shouldn't, then use a browser instead of the app. FWIW
I'm using a MUA, even on my tablet PC.

I'm not sure I understand the sarcasm. IMO nobody nowadays should use
HTML for emails anymore. Some users don't display HTML by their MUAs,
for good reasons. The MUAs could display HTML, but for good reasons
allow to disable it.

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: Im sorry

Gilles Gravier-2
Hi!



On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 8:24 PM, Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, 12 Oct 2016 16:50:36 +0200, Gilles Gravier wrote:
>On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Joel Rees <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 11:40 PM, Ralf Mardorf
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > [...]
>> >  [snip] Avoid sending emails in HTML format
>> > [...]
>>
>> Anybody know how to do this with the Android gmail app?
>>
>>
><SARCASM>
>Move to 21st century? :)
></SARCASM>

Be aware that plain HTML mails are not displayed in a human readable
style, by the list's archive. Multipart is not the same as HTML only.

FWIW assuming the web interface of gmail should provide plain text and
the Android app shouldn't, then use a browser instead of the app. FWIW
I'm using a MUA, even on my tablet PC.

I'm not sure I understand the sarcasm. IMO nobody nowadays should use
HTML for emails anymore. Some users don't display HTML by their MUAs,
for good reasons. The MUAs could display HTML, but for good reasons
allow to disable it.

"IMO nobody nowadays should use HTML for emails anymore" you say.

I invite you to have a look at the following graphic : https://blog.hubspot.com/hubfs/Screen_Shot_2015-07-24_at_9.14.53_PM.png

Which summarizes the debate in 2014 (and the trend is only going forward)... If you don't want to follow the link, the short answer is 64% people prefer receiving HTML e-mails form companies than text. I have to apologize for working in a world where businesses tend to drive, well, business. Following the majority rule seems to be a good thing to do.

Feel free to recommend another way to procede, of course. I'm happy if some people go back to UUCP e-mail polling... But I'm thinking that when any user installs Ubuntu, then boots it, the default e-mail clients provided (Thunderbird, Evolution...) all are set to HTML by default.

Gilles

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Re: Im sorry

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Thu, 13 Oct 2016 09:14:54 +0200, Gilles Gravier wrote:
>Which summarizes the debate in 2014 (and the trend is only going
>forward)... If you don't want to follow the link, the short answer is
>64% people prefer receiving HTML e-mails form companies than text. I
>have to apologize for working in a world where businesses tend to
>drive, well, business. Following the majority rule seems to be a good
>thing to do.

We are not talking about anybodies opinion or taste, we are talking
about Ubuntu mailing list guidelines [1].

>But I'm thinking that when any user installs Ubuntu, then boots it,
>the default e-mail clients provided (Thunderbird, Evolution...) all
>are set to HTML by default.

No, this is incorrect, since at least Evolution doesn't provide HTML
only at all. If you chose HTML, then Evolution sends a multipart message
containing HTML and plain text. I already pointed out, that there is a
difference between HTML and a multipart message containing HTML. Btw.
Evolution asks you, if it should load remote contend of idiotic HTML
mails, as long as you don't allow it, the HTML mails are displayed
incomplete.

>Feel free to recommend another way to procede, of course.

I don't feel free to recommend anything, I quoted the Ubuntu mailing
list guidelines [1].

Again, we are not talking about what anybody, you or I prefer or do not
prefer, we are talking about Ubuntu mailing list guidelines.

Regards,
Ralf

[1]
Begin forwarded message:

Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2016 16:40:12 +0200
From: Ralf Mardorf
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Im sorry


Welcome Tim :)

On Tue, 11 Oct 2016 16:11:25 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:
>This article is controversial but still instructive:
>
>http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html 

this link might be semi-inappropriate for this user mailing list. I
guess learning by doing is the better approach for this list. Tim needs
only to understand, that he is welcome and that we usually have good
reasons, if we ask somebody to provide more information or want
somebody to care about posting style. There are Wiki articles available
about posting style, but lets stay with the Ubuntu recommendations.

The page to subscribe to this list [1] contains a link to FAQ. Those FAQ
Link to

  http://community.ubuntu.com/contribute/support/mailinglists/

Excerpts from the "Technical guidelines" of the above link:

"[snip] Write your email underneath the email which you are replying to
 [snip] remove any unnecessary text
 [snip] Avoid sending emails in HTML format
 [snip] When replying to messages, use [snip] Reply To List function
 [snip] When starting a new subject, do not reply to a previous email
 [snip] Replying to digest emails breaks the threading [2]
 [snip]"

Regards,
Ralf

[1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users

[2] A note from me, it's avoidable by using MIME Digest
    http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node28.html


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RE: Im sorry

J.Witvliet
In reply to this post by Ralf Mardorf-2

See below ;)

 

<snip>

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<snip>

Hi,

 

Shall we refrain from mud throwing?

Instead, add a line to the signature: “Thou shall never reply to messages send in HTML”, and leave it to the people to use their common sense (if available)

Serious transgressors (foul language, etc etc)  should simply be  removed from the list.

 


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Re: Im sorry

Ralf Mardorf-2
In reply to this post by Ralf Mardorf-2
PS:

But ok, let's talk about our taste and what you guess HTML does provide
that plain text doesn't provide.

>>I have to apologize for working in a world where businesses tend to
>>drive, well, business. Following the majority rule seems to be a good
>>thing to do.  

I'm living in the same world and don't need HTML at all and for sure I
don't load any remote content. If I would use HTML, my mails anyway
would not look like the sender has got formatted the mail, due to
another Windows size, due to not having the same fonts installed and
especially because it's risky to load remote contend. More likely
plain text formatted mails look closer to the original formatted mail,
then any HTML mail. Yes, it's possible to format bold, italic etc. for
plain text, too, but not all MUAs care about the formatting.

_Underlined_
             *Bold*
                    /Italicized/

Have fun reading a plain HTML mail, not multipart, when using Braille.
A blind reader needs to read all the HTML formatting and telephone
numbers and addresses add as remote contend or included pictures, aren't
readable at all, neither using Braille, nor using an audio screen
reader.

Regards,
Ralf


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