Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

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Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Rod Lovett
Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

           I started a thread on the forum regarding this, but gave up,
as either it worked for them, and they couldn't understand my problem.
Or they did not have a clue what could be wrong.
Certainly in the land of oz it is it is beyond a joke.
It seems tied up with silly old sudo permissions,
and enalind user video and cd makes not a scrap of difference.
If one plays it first as a root GUI login, logs out and
then logs in as user it then plays, until you reboot of course
then back to silly "this DVD is encrypted" despite libdvdcss2 being
installed.
It will also play a DVD if one boots with it in the drive, but not any
other one may care to try in that session.
Fortunately VLC does not succumb to this silly error, and plays OK.
Its stuff like this that makes su and sudo a real nuisance.

Wish I could excise the silly sudo su stuff  from Kubuntu, and make it
act like its parent Debian which keeps it black and white user or root,
which keeps it much simpler, and none of this kaffeine borking stuff.

Strangely Gutsy had no such Kaffeine behavior, but in  Ibex Kaffeine is
also borked with the less than optimal KDE 4.01.
Regards
Rod

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Re: Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Knapp
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Rod Lovett <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.
>
>           I started a thread on the forum regarding this, but gave up,
> as either it worked for them, and they couldn't understand my problem.
> Or they did not have a clue what could be wrong.
> Certainly in the land of oz it is it is beyond a joke.
> It seems tied up with silly old sudo permissions,
> and enalind user video and cd makes not a scrap of difference.
> If one plays it first as a root GUI login, logs out and
> then logs in as user it then plays, until you reboot of course
> then back to silly "this DVD is encrypted" despite libdvdcss2 being
> installed.
> It will also play a DVD if one boots with it in the drive, but not any
> other one may care to try in that session.
> Fortunately VLC does not succumb to this silly error, and plays OK.
> Its stuff like this that makes su and sudo a real nuisance.
>
> Wish I could excise the silly sudo su stuff  from Kubuntu, and make it
> act like its parent Debian which keeps it black and white user or root,
> which keeps it much simpler, and none of this kaffeine borking stuff.
>
> Strangely Gutsy had no such Kaffeine behavior, but in  Ibex Kaffeine is
> also borked with the less than optimal KDE 4.01.
> Regards
> Rod

Rob, I just fixed it with kaffeine by clicking on settings xine engine
and then media. Then I changed all the devices to dev/scd0.
It now works. I have not rebooted yet. I wlll let you know if it
breaks otherwise it is working!!

BTW I had that same behavior with restarting KDE and all that.

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Re: Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Dotan Cohen
In reply to this post by Rod Lovett
2008/9/1 Rod Lovett <[hidden email]>:

> Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.
>
>           I started a thread on the forum regarding this, but gave up,
> as either it worked for them, and they couldn't understand my problem.
> Or they did not have a clue what could be wrong.
> Certainly in the land of oz it is it is beyond a joke.
> It seems tied up with silly old sudo permissions,
> and enalind user video and cd makes not a scrap of difference.
> If one plays it first as a root GUI login, logs out and
> then logs in as user it then plays, until you reboot of course
> then back to silly "this DVD is encrypted" despite libdvdcss2 being
> installed.
> It will also play a DVD if one boots with it in the drive, but not any
> other one may care to try in that session.
> Fortunately VLC does not succumb to this silly error, and plays OK.
> Its stuff like this that makes su and sudo a real nuisance.
>
> Wish I could excise the silly sudo su stuff  from Kubuntu, and make it
> act like its parent Debian which keeps it black and white user or root,
> which keeps it much simpler, and none of this kaffeine borking stuff.
>
> Strangely Gutsy had no such Kaffeine behavior, but in  Ibex Kaffeine is
> also borked with the less than optimal KDE 4.01.

Rod, I opened this mail with the intention of triaging your condition,
but you bury your content in adjectives and irrelevant details. Please
tell us what you did, what happened, and what you expected to happen.
I'll take it from there. Thanks.

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Re: Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Knapp
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 4:00 PM, Dotan Cohen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2008/9/1 Rod Lovett <[hidden email]>:
>> Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.
>>
>>           I started a thread on the forum regarding this, but gave up,
>> as either it worked for them, and they couldn't understand my problem.
>> Or they did not have a clue what could be wrong.
>> Certainly in the land of oz it is it is beyond a joke.
>> It seems tied up with silly old sudo permissions,
>> and enalind user video and cd makes not a scrap of difference.
>> If one plays it first as a root GUI login, logs out and
>> then logs in as user it then plays, until you reboot of course
>> then back to silly "this DVD is encrypted" despite libdvdcss2 being
>> installed.
>> It will also play a DVD if one boots with it in the drive, but not any
>> other one may care to try in that session.
>> Fortunately VLC does not succumb to this silly error, and plays OK.
>> Its stuff like this that makes su and sudo a real nuisance.
>>
>> Wish I could excise the silly sudo su stuff  from Kubuntu, and make it
>> act like its parent Debian which keeps it black and white user or root,
>> which keeps it much simpler, and none of this kaffeine borking stuff.
>>
>> Strangely Gutsy had no such Kaffeine behavior, but in  Ibex Kaffeine is
>> also borked with the less than optimal KDE 4.01.
>
> Rod, I opened this mail with the intention of triaging your condition,
> but you bury your content in adjectives and irrelevant details. Please
> tell us what you did, what happened, and what you expected to happen.
> I'll take it from there. Thanks.
>
> --
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>
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>
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>
Dotan, it seems his problem is exactly the same as mine and he is fed
up with it. I understand but I think he is wrong about the sudo and su
thing. It is just a problem that looks like that because the error
message is totally wrong. The problem is with the kaffiene program
looking at the wrong drive for some reason that seem to have to do
with the upgrade to 8.04. I would bet what I told him fixes his
problem unless his dvd player is not on dev/scd0 like mine is.

Computers can REALLY piss people off. It used to be in NY city when
the stock market crashed people throw themselves out the windows, now
they throw the computers out. :-)


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Re: Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Derek Broughton-2
In reply to this post by Rod Lovett
Rod Lovett wrote:

> Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.
>
>            I started a thread on the forum regarding this, but gave up,
> as either it worked for them, and they couldn't understand my problem.

I'd go with the latter.  You _really_ need to try to write comprehensible
English.

> Or they did not have a clue what could be wrong.
> Certainly in the land of oz it is it is beyond a joke.

Does that mean anything?

> It seems tied up with silly old sudo permissions,

Why are you even _using_ sudo?  Kaffeine is a user-executable program, and
even if you _did_ need root privilege, you shouldn't be doing it via sudo -
you use kdesudo for gui apps.

> and enalind user video and cd makes not a scrap of difference.

Again, that sentence makes no sense.

> If one plays it first as a root GUI login, logs out and
> then logs in as user it then plays, until you reboot of course
> then back to silly "this DVD is encrypted" despite libdvdcss2 being
> installed.

Region codes?

> It will also play a DVD if one boots with it in the drive, but not any
> other one may care to try in that session.

Another sentence that makes no sense.

> Fortunately VLC does not succumb to this silly error, and plays OK.
> Its stuff like this that makes su and sudo a real nuisance.

What does sudo have to do with it?
 
You know - you'd probably get the problem fixed a whole lot sooner if you
actually explained what happens when it doesn't work.  As it is, I'll take
a leap and suggest you check your home directory for hidden files or
directories owned by root.  If you run gui apps via sudo, it has a habit of
creating config files that can no longer be accessed by the program when
run as a normal user - so don't do it.

fwiw, Kaffeine in 8.04 is certainly not borked.  I've yet to find a DVD I
couldn't play.
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Re: Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Derek Broughton-2
In reply to this post by Knapp
Knapp wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 4:00 PM, Dotan Cohen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Rod, I opened this mail with the intention of triaging your condition,
>> but you bury your content in adjectives and irrelevant details. Please
>> tell us what you did, what happened, and what you expected to happen.
>> I'll take it from there. Thanks.
>>
snippage of .sigs

Douglas - it's nice to see bottom posting, but please snip the sigs :-)

> Dotan, it seems his problem is exactly the same as mine and he is fed
> up with it. I understand but I think he is wrong about the sudo and su
> thing. It is just a problem that looks like that because the error
> message is totally wrong. The problem is with the kaffiene program
> looking at the wrong drive for some reason that seem to have to do
> with the upgrade to 8.04. I would bet what I told him fixes his
> problem unless his dvd player is not on dev/scd0 like mine is.

I'm glad you could make something of it, because I had the same frustration
as Dotan.  As you describe your fix, I suspect you're right - it sounds
like if there's a DVD in the drive, it gets mounted by the "mount -a" that
happens at boot time, and then Kaffeine can see it, but a user doesn't have
mount privilege on the same device.

If so, then in addition to what you've done, I'd suggest you both should
check /etc/fstab to ensure that the correct device is mentioned there.

> Computers can REALLY piss people off. It used to be in NY city when
> the stock market crashed people throw themselves out the windows, now
> they throw the computers out. :-)

I _suppose_ that's a healthier reaction :-)
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Re: Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Dotan Cohen
In reply to this post by Knapp
2008/9/1 Knapp <[hidden email]>:

> Dotan, it seems his problem is exactly the same as mine and he is fed
> up with it. I understand but I think he is wrong about the sudo and su
> thing. It is just a problem that looks like that because the error
> message is totally wrong. The problem is with the kaffiene program
> looking at the wrong drive for some reason that seem to have to do
> with the upgrade to 8.04. I would bet what I told him fixes his
> problem unless his dvd player is not on dev/scd0 like mine is.
>
> Computers can REALLY piss people off. It used to be in NY city when
> the stock market crashed people throw themselves out the windows, now
> they throw the computers out. :-)
>

I did see your recent post, and I wanted to be sure this is the same
issue before I go on. I know that computers are frustrating, but I was
not commenting on his frustration. Rather, I was having a hard time
digging out the issue from the cruft. No offence to the OP, I was just
trying to help.

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Re: Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Dotan Cohen
In reply to this post by Derek Broughton-2
2008/9/1 Derek Broughton <[hidden email]>:
>> It seems tied up with silly old sudo permissions,
>
> Why are you even _using_ sudo?  Kaffeine is a user-executable program, and
> even if you _did_ need root privilege, you shouldn't be doing it via sudo -
> you use kdesudo for gui apps.
>

In another thread the OP had to create a symlink to the cdrom drive.
Naturally, that is done as root. Apearently there are situations in
which Kaffiene cannot find the cdrom drive.

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Re: Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Knapp
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 5:09 PM, Dotan Cohen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2008/9/1 Derek Broughton <[hidden email]>:
>>> It seems tied up with silly old sudo permissions,
>>
>> Why are you even _using_ sudo?  Kaffeine is a user-executable program, and
>> even if you _did_ need root privilege, you shouldn't be doing it via sudo -
>> you use kdesudo for gui apps.
>>
>
> In another thread the OP had to create a symlink to the cdrom drive.
> Naturally, that is done as root. Apearently there are situations in
> which Kaffiene cannot find the cdrom drive.
>
> --
> Dotan Cohen

I did not use the link idea because I saw it is a patch to whatever
the real problem is.

I think the real problem is that in older than 8.04 the cdrom was
called hd0 and now is called scd0. Kaffiene is set to look for hdo and
has not been updated to look for scd0. When you do update it
everything is then fine.
All this seems to be related to fdisk settings being outdated do to
the new use off HAL or something like that that automatically sets up
the fdisk stuff at boot.


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Re: Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Dotan Cohen
2008/9/1 Knapp <[hidden email]>:
> I think the real problem is that in older than 8.04 the cdrom was
> called hd0 and now is called scd0.

Correct me if I am wrong, but hd0 sounds like an IDE device whereas
scd0 sounds like a SATA device. Is your comment about ubuntu < 8.04
calling the cdrom hd0 and ubuntu >= 8.04 calling the cdrom scd0 tested
on the same hardware?

> Kaffiene is set to look for hdo and
> has not been updated to look for scd0.

Shouldn't it be looking in /mnt and not in /dev?

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Re: Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Knapp
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but hd0 sounds like an IDE device whereas
> scd0 sounds like a SATA device. Is your comment about ubuntu < 8.04
> calling the cdrom hd0 and ubuntu >= 8.04 calling the cdrom scd0 tested
> on the same hardware?

Yes, no hardware changes or bios or anything like that. And the DVD
burner is and IDE device. My HD is a Sata device. You can see the
details if you like in the other emails from me about this subject
including my fdisk file before  I commented out the line as suggested.

>> Kaffiene is set to look for hdo and
>> has not been updated to look for scd0.
>
> Shouldn't it be looking in /mnt and not in /dev?

I have no idea what it SHOULD be doing but I know what worked.

If you do know what SHOULD be please let me know and I will test it out.

> --
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Re: Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Dotan Cohen
2008/9/1 Knapp <[hidden email]>:
> Yes, no hardware changes or bios or anything like that. And the DVD
> burner is and IDE device. My HD is a Sata device. You can see the
> details if you like in the other emails from me about this subject
> including my fdisk file before  I commented out the line as suggested.
>

I won't be able to get you any further than your earlier thread, but
you might want to ask on the Debian list. The real hardware gurus hang
out there, but make sure when you ask that you state exactly what you
did, what happened, and what you expected to happen. Also detail how
you STFW trying to fix it and give details about your hardware.
Mention that you are using "a Debian-derived distro: Kubuntu 8.04" to
stress that the post is relevant for the Debian list. The Debian list
has some terrific brains, but they are not as newbie tolerant as the
*buntu lists. For a good reason!

>> Shouldn't it be looking in /mnt and not in /dev?
>
> I have no idea what it SHOULD be doing but I know what worked.
>
> If you do know what SHOULD be please let me know and I will test it out.

I could only guess, but most end-user programs look in /mnt as opposed
to /dev. I do not know if that is standard, it is just an observation
of mine.

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Re: Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Derek Broughton-2
In reply to this post by Knapp
Knapp wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 5:09 PM, Dotan Cohen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> 2008/9/1 Derek Broughton <[hidden email]>:
>>>> It seems tied up with silly old sudo permissions,
>>>
>>> Why are you even _using_ sudo?  Kaffeine is a user-executable program,
>>> and even if you _did_ need root privilege, you shouldn't be doing it via
>>> sudo - you use kdesudo for gui apps.
>>
>> In another thread the OP had to create a symlink to the cdrom drive.
>> Naturally, that is done as root.

Sure, but then you wouldn't actually run kaffeine as root - this seems to be
part of the issue.

>> Apearently there are situations in
>> which Kaffiene cannot find the cdrom drive.
>
> I did not use the link idea because I saw it is a patch to whatever
> the real problem is.
>
> I think the real problem is that in older than 8.04 the cdrom was
> called hd0 and now is called scd0. Kaffiene is set to look for hdo and
> has not been updated to look for scd0. When you do update it
> everything is then fine.

IF that's the situation, it has absolutely nothing to do with 8.04.
Depending on your hardware config, that device change may have happened
long ago (dapper or edgy, in my case).

> All this seems to be related to fdisk settings being outdated do to
> the new use off HAL or something like that that automatically sets up
> the fdisk stuff at boot.

No, nothing like that at all.  Not related to hal _or_ fdisk.  Just check
your fstab.
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Re: Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Derek Broughton-2
In reply to this post by Knapp
Knapp wrote:

>>
>> Correct me if I am wrong, but hd0 sounds like an IDE device whereas
>> scd0 sounds like a SATA device. Is your comment about ubuntu < 8.04
>> calling the cdrom hd0 and ubuntu >= 8.04 calling the cdrom scd0 tested
>> on the same hardware?
>
> Yes, no hardware changes or bios or anything like that. And the DVD
> burner is and IDE device. My HD is a Sata device. You can see the
> details if you like in the other emails from me about this subject
> including my fdisk file before  I commented out the line as suggested.
>
>>> Kaffiene is set to look for hdo and
>>> has not been updated to look for scd0.
>>
>> Shouldn't it be looking in /mnt and not in /dev?

Shouldn't think so - I don't have _anything_ in /mnt, but one would expect
that to be a mount point, not a device.

My xine settings say /dev/cdrom for CD and /dev/dvd for DVD (they both point
to the same device).  These are stock settings from a gutsy install.
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Re: Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Jonas Norlander
In reply to this post by Dotan Cohen
2008/9/1 Dotan Cohen <[hidden email]>:

> 2008/9/1 Knapp <[hidden email]>:
>> I think the real problem is that in older than 8.04 the cdrom was
>> called hd0 and now is called scd0.
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but hd0 sounds like an IDE device whereas
> scd0 sounds like a SATA device. Is your comment about ubuntu < 8.04
> calling the cdrom hd0 and ubuntu >= 8.04 calling the cdrom scd0 tested
> on the same hardware?
>
>> Kaffiene is set to look for hdo and
>> has not been updated to look for scd0.
>
> Shouldn't it be looking in /mnt and not in /dev?
>

When playing DVD movies or Audio CD there is no mounting, the program
is accessing the device directly so they will not show up under /media
or /mnt.

/ Jonas

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Re: Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Dotan Cohen
In reply to this post by Derek Broughton-2
2008/9/1 Derek Broughton <[hidden email]>:
> Sure, but then you wouldn't actually run kaffeine as root - this seems to be
> part of the issue.

I did not realize that is what he was doing. No, Kaffiene should never
be run as root.

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Re: Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Dotan Cohen
In reply to this post by Derek Broughton-2
2008/9/1 Derek Broughton <[hidden email]>:
>>> Shouldn't it be looking in /mnt and not in /dev?
>
> Shouldn't think so - I don't have _anything_ in /mnt, but one would expect
> that to be a mount point, not a device.
>
> My xine settings say /dev/cdrom for CD and /dev/dvd for DVD (they both point
> to the same device).  These are stock settings from a gutsy install.

I may have been thinking in Fedora terms. Here on my Kubuntu box the
cdrom is in /media:
$ ls /media
cdrom  cdrom0

In any case, removable storage is usually accessed by user programs
outside of /dev, whether it be /media or /mnt or /whatever. Only fixed
hardware is generally still accessed from /dev, such as webcams and
the like.

Again this may not be a hard fast rule, just something that I've
observed. I might have my head on backwards in this area though. I'll
shut up before someone gets hurt.

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Re: Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Derek Broughton-2
In reply to this post by Dotan Cohen
Dotan Cohen wrote:

> 2008/9/1 Derek Broughton <[hidden email]>:
>> Sure, but then you wouldn't actually run kaffeine as root - this seems to
>> be part of the issue.
>
> I did not realize that is what he was doing. No, Kaffiene should never
> be run as root.

Well, given the lack of clarity in the question, perhaps that _isn't_ what
he's doing, but that's what it seemed like :-)
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Re: Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Derek Broughton-2
In reply to this post by Dotan Cohen
Dotan Cohen wrote:

> 2008/9/1 Derek Broughton <[hidden email]>:
>>>> Shouldn't it be looking in /mnt and not in /dev?
>>
>> Shouldn't think so - I don't have _anything_ in /mnt, but one would
>> expect that to be a mount point, not a device.
>>
>> My xine settings say /dev/cdrom for CD and /dev/dvd for DVD (they both
>> point
>> to the same device).  These are stock settings from a gutsy install.
>
> I may have been thinking in Fedora terms. Here on my Kubuntu box the
> cdrom is in /media:
> $ ls /media
> cdrom  cdrom0

Yes, but that's the mount point - that's where you'll see a filesystem, but
as somebody else pointed out, DVDs and Audio CDs don't strictly have a
filesystem.
>
> In any case, removable storage is usually accessed by user programs
> outside of /dev,

But not by media programs, which usually need to know the device (q.v. k3b
or any other burner utility, that - like kaffeine - need to access the
device).

> whether it be /media or /mnt or /whatever. Only fixed
> hardware is generally still accessed from /dev, such as webcams and
> the like.

Actually, my webcam isn't... :-)

It's really not about the type of device, it's what you want to do with it.
If you have to access a filesystem on a device, you access its mountpoint.
If you have to access the device itself, while you may get it via a
symlink, it's the /dev device you talk to.
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Re: Kaffeine in Kubuntu 8.04 is borked.

Dotan Cohen
2008/9/1 Derek Broughton <[hidden email]>:
>> I may have been thinking in Fedora terms. Here on my Kubuntu box the
>> cdrom is in /media:
>> $ ls /media
>> cdrom  cdrom0
>
> Yes, but that's the mount point - that's where you'll see a filesystem, but
> as somebody else pointed out, DVDs and Audio CDs don't strictly have a
> filesystem.

No, but they are mounted to the system filesystem, and their contents
is presented as files, just like everything else (even directories) in
Linux.

>> In any case, removable storage is usually accessed by user programs
>> outside of /dev,
>
> But not by media programs, which usually need to know the device (q.v. k3b
> or any other burner utility, that - like kaffeine - need to access the
> device).
>

I agree the k3b (or rather, the tools that k3b manages) do need to
access the device, I do not believe that read-only needs to access the
device. Kaffeine only needs the files, which can be represented under
a mountpoint on the filesystem.

>> whether it be /media or /mnt or /whatever. Only fixed
>> hardware is generally still accessed from /dev, such as webcams and
>> the like.
>
> Actually, my webcam isn't... :-)
>

Interesting. I've had to play around with configuring webcams, and all
the ones I have had the misfortune of trying were under /dev. Though,
they were all usb devices. I would like to stress that I am not the
guru in this department.

> It's really not about the type of device, it's what you want to do with it.
> If you have to access a filesystem on a device, you access its mountpoint.
> If you have to access the device itself, while you may get it via a
> symlink, it's the /dev device you talk to.

Agreed.

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Dotan Cohen

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