Keep or remove software-center?

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Keep or remove software-center?

Martin Pitt-4
Hello all,

I just noticed that we still have software-center in yakkety. It
hasn't been maintained for several cycles, we never found anyone who
wanted to port it to Python 3, the desktop team moved to
gnome-software a while ago, and it isn't shipped on any image/flavor.

Is there still some reason to keep it, or someone who wants to
maintain it in Ubuntu? If not, I think we should remove it.
(This doesn't prevent it from reentering Ubuntu in a later release, of
course).

Thanks,

Martin
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Re: Keep or remove software-center?

Barry Warsaw-2
On Oct 10, 2016, at 03:15 PM, Martin Pitt wrote:

>I just noticed that we still have software-center in yakkety. It
>hasn't been maintained for several cycles, we never found anyone who
>wanted to port it to Python 3, the desktop team moved to
>gnome-software a while ago, and it isn't shipped on any image/flavor.
>
>Is there still some reason to keep it, or someone who wants to
>maintain it in Ubuntu? If not, I think we should remove it.
>(This doesn't prevent it from reentering Ubuntu in a later release, of
>course).

We decided to drop it many cycles ago, which is why it's not seen any
significant development in a long while.  I used to track its removal
(i.e. occasionally remember to ping ;) but I pretty much assumed it was going
away once the switch to g-s was complete.

I'd vote for removing it as soon as possible from Zazzy Zorilla.  There are a
couple of revdeps and revrecs and it's not worth chasing down any unintended
fallout this close to the Yakkety release.

Cheers,
-Barry

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Re: Keep or remove software-center?

Bryan Quigley-2
I'd say we should remove it, especially because we really don't want
anyone stumbling on to using it at this point.


$ reverse-depends src:software-center
Reverse-Recommends
==================
* mythbuntu-desktop [powerpc]   (for software-center) - looks like an
old depends as mythbuntu doesn't appear to do powerpc builds anymore
* oneconf                       (for software-center) - for syncing
package lists in software center,  also a candidate to be removed?

Reverse-Depends
===============
* ti-omap4-software-channel     (for software-center) - Hasn't been
updated since initial release in 2011, not sure if it's still needed.
- It actually is a desktop file that installs this outdated PPA -
https://launchpad.net/~tiomap-dev/+archive/ubuntu/release?field.series_filter=precise.
  It also appears to hardcode the maverick release.  I think we can
definitely drop this..

Packages without architectures listed are reverse-dependencies in:
amd64, arm64, armhf, i386, powerpc, ppc64el, s390x
bryan@desktop:~$ reverse-depends -b src:software-center
No reverse dependencies found

Kind regards,
Bryan

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Barry Warsaw <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Oct 10, 2016, at 03:15 PM, Martin Pitt wrote:
>
>>I just noticed that we still have software-center in yakkety. It
>>hasn't been maintained for several cycles, we never found anyone who
>>wanted to port it to Python 3, the desktop team moved to
>>gnome-software a while ago, and it isn't shipped on any image/flavor.
>>
>>Is there still some reason to keep it, or someone who wants to
>>maintain it in Ubuntu? If not, I think we should remove it.
>>(This doesn't prevent it from reentering Ubuntu in a later release, of
>>course).
>
> We decided to drop it many cycles ago, which is why it's not seen any
> significant development in a long while.  I used to track its removal
> (i.e. occasionally remember to ping ;) but I pretty much assumed it was going
> away once the switch to g-s was complete.
>
> I'd vote for removing it as soon as possible from Zazzy Zorilla.  There are a
> couple of revdeps and revrecs and it's not worth chasing down any unintended
> fallout this close to the Yakkety release.
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry
>
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Re: Keep or remove software-center?

Martin Pitt-4
In reply to this post by Barry Warsaw-2
Barry Warsaw [2016-10-10  9:38 -0400]:
> I'd vote for removing it as soon as possible from Zazzy Zorilla.  There are a
> couple of revdeps and revrecs and it's not worth chasing down any unintended
> fallout this close to the Yakkety release.

| Reverse-Recommends
| ==================
| * mythbuntu-desktop [powerpc]   (for software-center)

Not sure wher this comes from -- it's not in
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/mythbuntu.yakkety/view/head:/desktop
nor in the platform.yakkety nor ubuntu.yakkety seeds,
and yet it is in ubuntu-meta's desktop-recommends-powerpc file. That
is an obsolet file as update.cfg only has "architectures: i386 amd64",
and thus should just be removed.

I'm not sure if Mythbuntu actually wants to support powerpc still or
not -- update.cfg and debian/control's Architecture: disagree. (CC'ing
Mario for input).

| * oneconf                       (for software-center)

That would get removed along with software-center.

| Reverse-Depends
| ===============
| * ti-omap4-software-channel     (for software-center)

This has been obsolete since after 12.04, removed ealier today.

Martin

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RE: Keep or remove software-center?

Mario.Limonciello
Hi Martin,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Pitt [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 9:01 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Limonciello, Mario <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Keep or remove software-center?
>
> Barry Warsaw [2016-10-10  9:38 -0400]:
> > I'd vote for removing it as soon as possible from Zazzy Zorilla.  There are a
> > couple of revdeps and revrecs and it's not worth chasing down any
> unintended
> > fallout this close to the Yakkety release.
>
> | Reverse-Recommends
> | ==================
> | * mythbuntu-desktop [powerpc]   (for software-center)
>
> Not sure wher this comes from -- it's not in
> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu-dev/ubuntu-
> seeds/mythbuntu.yakkety/view/head:/desktop
> nor in the platform.yakkety nor ubuntu.yakkety seeds,
> and yet it is in ubuntu-meta's desktop-recommends-powerpc file. That
> is an obsolet file as update.cfg only has "architectures: i386 amd64",
> and thus should just be removed.
>
> I'm not sure if Mythbuntu actually wants to support powerpc still or
> not -- update.cfg and debian/control's Architecture: disagree. (CC'ing
> Mario for input).

We never actually got a good setup working for PowerPC.  We wanted to,
but realistically the number of people that could benefit from a PPC media
experience is ~2.  
Dropping PPC sounds fine by me.

>
> | * oneconf                       (for software-center)
>
> That would get removed along with software-center.
>
> | Reverse-Depends
> | ===============
> | * ti-omap4-software-channel     (for software-center)
>
> This has been obsolete since after 12.04, removed ealier today.
>
> Martin
>
> --
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> Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com)  | Debian Developer
> (www.debian.org)

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Re: Keep or remove software-center?

Jeremy Bicha-2
In reply to this post by Barry Warsaw-2
On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Barry Warsaw <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'd vote for removing it as soon as possible from Zazzy Zorilla.  There are a
> couple of revdeps and revrecs and it's not worth chasing down any unintended
> fallout this close to the Yakkety release.

Yes, let's not remove it from yakkety.

I believe software-center has these features that gnome-software does not:
1. Shows all available packages
2. Supports paid apps
3. Works at times that gnome-software appears to refuse to start or
not show any content

For #1, we can refer users to synaptic, right?

If we're going to remove software-center at the start of Zazzy, I
recommend we have a list of bugs that ought to be fixed to bring it
back so it's clear what needs to be done. Here's a proposed list:

https://pad.lv/1616379 (Don't depend on python-debtagshw)
https://pad.lv/1631967 (Don't depend on aptdaemon; port to PackageKit directly)
https://pad.lv/823254 (port to python3, I think this is somewhat
optional since python2 will be in universe for a long time)

Thanks,
Jeremy

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Re: Keep or remove software-center?

Martin Pitt-4
In reply to this post by Mario.Limonciello
Hello Mario,

[hidden email] [2016-10-10 14:05 +0000]:
> We never actually got a good setup working for PowerPC.  We wanted to,
> but realistically the number of people that could benefit from a PPC media
> experience is ~2.
> Dropping PPC sounds fine by me.

Thanks for confirming. I uploaded a new mythbuntu-meta to fix the
inconsistency and drop the outdated powerpc binaries.

Martin

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Re: Keep or remove software-center?

Jeremy Bicha-2
In reply to this post by Bryan Quigley-2
On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Bryan Quigley
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'd say we should remove it, especially because we really don't want
> anyone stumbling on to using it at this point.

Some people (not me) do use software-center intentionally and I feel
it's a freeze break to remove functionality people "depend on", 3 days
before final release. Therefore, I propose that the freeze exception
process be followed if someone thinks it's important that this happen
for Ubuntu 16.10.

Thanks,
Jeremy

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Re: Keep or remove software-center?

Martin Pitt-4
Jeremy Bicha [2016-10-10 10:59 -0400]:
> Some people (not me) do use software-center intentionally and I feel
> it's a freeze break to remove functionality people "depend on", 3 days
> before final release. Therefore, I propose that the freeze exception
> process be followed if someone thinks it's important that this happen
> for Ubuntu 16.10.

No, it's not important at all for 16.10. I just spotted this during my
review/cleanup of stuff that's stuck in -proposed.

But I think it is important to not leave software bitrot for too long,
as this keeps blocking other work (Python 3 transition, aptdaemon
removal, syncs from Debian, etc.), so removing this early in Z is
fine.

Martin
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Re: Keep or remove software-center?

Colin Watson
In reply to this post by Jeremy Bicha-2
On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 10:16:06AM -0400, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
> I believe software-center has these features that gnome-software does not:
[...]
> 2. Supports paid apps

The store side of this is due to be dropped RSN.  Developers of paid
apps were informed of this a while ago and told that they'd need to
migrate to snaps.

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Re: Keep or remove software-center?

Steve Langasek-6
In reply to this post by Jeremy Bicha-2
On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 10:59:52AM -0400, Jeremy Bicha wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Bryan Quigley
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I'd say we should remove it, especially because we really don't want
> > anyone stumbling on to using it at this point.

> Some people (not me) do use software-center intentionally and I feel
> it's a freeze break to remove functionality people "depend on", 3 days
> before final release. Therefore, I propose that the freeze exception
> process be followed if someone thinks it's important that this happen
> for Ubuntu 16.10.

While I don't think there's any urgency in removing this package for 16.10,
I'm also going to push back on the idea of requiring a FFe for package
removals.  We do a lot of cleanup of obsolete packages (which this one is -
orphaned upstream) in the last weeks of the release cycle, and these do not
go through the FFe process.  Increasing the process overhead for these
removals would only make us less effective at removing them, leaving us with
more unsupported - and unsupportable - packages in each release.

Any given package may be "depended on" by a subset of our users, but if it's
abandonware, that should take precedence; and the outcome shouldn't matter
based on when in the release cycle the removal is requested, if no one is
stepping up to take over the maintenance.

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Re: Keep or remove software-center?

Robert Ancell-3
In reply to this post by Martin Pitt-4
On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 2:16 AM Martin Pitt <[hidden email]> wrote:
I just noticed that we still have software-center in yakkety. It

hasn't been maintained for several cycles, we never found anyone who

wanted to port it to Python 3, the desktop team moved to

gnome-software a while ago, and it isn't shipped on any image/flavor.



Is there still some reason to keep it, or someone who wants to

maintain it in Ubuntu? If not, I think we should remove it.


My thoughts at the time we proposed GNOME Software was we should keep it for one cycle as a fallback and then drop it. So I'd be happy to see it dropped in Yakkety.

--Robert

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Re: Keep or remove software-center?

Rodney Dawes-5
In reply to this post by Martin Pitt-4
PLEASE remove it, and ubuntu-sso-client!!!

On Mon, 2016-10-10 at 15:15 +0200, Martin Pitt wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I just noticed that we still have software-center in yakkety. It
> hasn't been maintained for several cycles, we never found anyone who
> wanted to port it to Python 3, the desktop team moved to
> gnome-software a while ago, and it isn't shipped on any image/flavor.
>
> Is there still some reason to keep it, or someone who wants to
> maintain it in Ubuntu? If not, I think we should remove it.
> (This doesn't prevent it from reentering Ubuntu in a later release,
> of
> course).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Martin
> -- 
> Martin Pitt                        | http://www.piware.de
> Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com)  | Debian Developer  (www.debian.or
> g)
>
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Re: Keep or remove software-center?

Martin Pitt-4
Rodney Dawes [2016-10-11  8:58 -0400]:
> PLEASE remove it, and ubuntu-sso-client!!!

FTR, I removed software-center, ubuntu-sso-client, and oneconf from zesty.

Martin
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