Kmenu and KDE4

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Re: Kmenu and KDE4

Lindsay Mathieson
On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 05:49:08 pm John L Fjellstad wrote:
> 've been on Debian lists, Slashdot... People complained that kcontrol
> gave too many options with too little organization

I'd seen that one often as well
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Re: Kmenu and KDE4

Nils Kassube-2
In reply to this post by Jonathan Jesse
Jonathan Jesse wrote:
> I was not implyinh that non lts releases are testing... Let me go back
> to another question then what is the difference between a stable and
> non stable release???  8.10 bis very stable on my Dell Lattitude

I think you are mixing up Ubuntu and Debian. Debian has release branches
named stable and unstable. Ubuntu doesn't have something like that.
However there are some Ubuntu releases which get a longer support and
those are called LTS (Long Term Support) releases.


Nils

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Re: Kmenu and KDE4

Knapp
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 10:18 AM, Nils Kassube <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jonathan Jesse wrote:
>> I was not implyinh that non lts releases are testing... Let me go back
>> to another question then what is the difference between a stable and
>> non stable release???  8.10 bis very stable on my Dell Lattitude
>
> I think you are mixing up Ubuntu and Debian. Debian has release branches
> named stable and unstable. Ubuntu doesn't have something like that.
> However there are some Ubuntu releases which get a longer support and
> those are called LTS (Long Term Support) releases.
>
>
> Nils

I said sort of out of short hand that LTS was stable. It was not the
correct way to say it and then this came up.
To answer your question, I would say that alpha, beta and RC are the
Ubuntu unstable releases.

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Re: Kmenu and KDE4

Art Alexion-3
In reply to this post by John L Fjellstad-2
On Tuesday 23 December 2008 2:47:46 am John L Fjellstad wrote:
> > Well you couldn't possibly have read the links before posting them or
> > you wouldn't have posted them.
>
> I did. And the point was that people has been complaining about, even
> though you claimed you never read anybody complaining about Konqueror as
> a file manager.  But then, if you are going to just dismiss the
> complaints, well..

C'mon, John.  One of the links was a guy complimenting konqueror. Others were
to versions of KDE 3 as new as KDE 4 is currently.  Another was just a
stoooopid "konqueror is the worst" with nothing else.  

I'm not ignoring them. I read them.  I read them because I was curious as to
what people didn't like.  The links you listed didn't answer that.


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Re: Kmenu and KDE4

Art Alexion-3
In reply to this post by John L Fjellstad-2
On Tuesday 23 December 2008 2:47:46 am John L Fjellstad wrote:

> > Yes, and my point is that if you can't afford scientific market
> > research, you have to use tools, and that is to analyze the complaints
> > according to coherence and reputation of the complainer.
>
> What reputation?  We're talking about the Internet.  Now, someone like
> Art and Derek might be known here, but they are probably just a random
> guy on the KDE lists.  Now, I personally am waiting for a call from
> President-elect Obama to help him with the economic crisis, especially
> since I've posted on the Economist forums, which make me eminently
> qualified to give an opinion, but that's because I'm an arrogant bastard.
That's very sad.  You mean you take your time following this list.  You read
the posts, and you never form any opinion as to which posters offer valuable
help and which should be ignored?  It is like waking up every morning never
remembering what happened yesterday.

I don't read economist forums and don't have a clue what your economic acumen
is.

I did recently read of a formerly anonymous blogger who was cited by Nobel
Laureate Paul Krugmann in his recently revised book.  He cited her not
because he knew her name, but because of her consistently keen opinions.


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Re: Kmenu and KDE4

Art Alexion-3
In reply to this post by John L Fjellstad-2
On Tuesday 23 December 2008 2:47:46 am John L Fjellstad wrote:
> And I might listen to you and Derek and Knapp more than
> someone who just pop in here and give an opinion and disappear. But then
> again, I hang out here (even though I don't post much) so I 'know' you
> guys from your posts.  

Exactly my point.


> A developer is probably hanging out at their
> developer and user lists (say KDE-developer and KDE-user or whatever),
> and might get a link to some random user lists where my name shows
> up. At that point, my opnion doesn't rank any higher than any other Joe
> Random poster.

Which I think was the point of others who suggested that developers OUGHT to
monitor lists concerning their projects.

Some development teams seem to designate one from the team to monitor and
participate in the lists.  I believe this is a good practice.


>
> BTW. Happy Holidays everybody :-)

Thank you, and to you and yours as well!





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Re: Kmenu and KDE4

Knapp
> Which I think was the point of others who suggested that developers OUGHT to
> monitor lists concerning their projects.
>
> Some development teams seem to designate one from the team to monitor and
> participate in the lists.  I believe this is a good practice.
>
>
>>
>> BTW. Happy Holidays everybody :-)
>
> Thank you, and to you and yours as well!

I agree but what if that person has biases? Perhaps more watching a
list would be better or one that gives a summery that does not edit
out oppinions or ideas but just repetition? Any way, good idea.
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Re: Kmenu and KDE4

Knapp
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 9:53 PM, Knapp <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Which I think was the point of others who suggested that developers OUGHT to
>> monitor lists concerning their projects.
>>
>> Some development teams seem to designate one from the team to monitor and
>> participate in the lists.  I believe this is a good practice.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> BTW. Happy Holidays everybody :-)
>>
>> Thank you, and to you and yours as well!
>
> I agree but what if that person has biases? Perhaps more watching a
> list would be better or one that gives a summery that does not edit
> out opinions or ideas but just repetition? Any way, good idea.

Sorry but one other thought. This watcher does not need to be a dev.
He could be anyone that wants to help and all he does is post weekly
summaries for the devs to read. That way you do not use the
programming time of a dev.


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Re: Kmenu and KDE4

Derek Broughton-2
In reply to this post by Art Alexion-3
Art Alexion wrote:

> On Tuesday 23 December 2008 2:47:46 am John L Fjellstad wrote:
>> > Yes, and my point is that if you can't afford scientific market
>> > research, you have to use tools, and that is to analyze the
>> > complaints according to coherence and reputation of the complainer.
>>
>> What reputation?  We're talking about the Internet.  Now, someone
>> like Art and Derek might be known here, but they are probably just a
>> random guy on the KDE lists.

Once upon a time, I was pretty noticeable on kdepim (I think that's
probably where I first ran across Art), but otherwise you're right - I
don't hang out on KDE lists.  But the whole problem with KDE4 is a
_distro_ problem, not a KDE one.  KDE4 isn't ready for inclusion in
Kubuntu, and most other distros using KDE would seem to agree.

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Re: Kmenu and KDE4

Derek Broughton-2
In reply to this post by Art Alexion-3
Art Alexion wrote:

> On Tuesday 23 December 2008 2:47:46 am John L Fjellstad wrote:

>> A developer is probably hanging out at their
>> developer and user lists (say KDE-developer and KDE-user or
>> whatever), and might get a link to some random user lists where my
>> name shows up. At that point, my opnion doesn't rank any higher than
>> any other Joe Random poster.
>
> Which I think was the point of others who suggested that developers
> OUGHT to monitor lists concerning their projects.
>
In this case, though, the "developers" we're talking about are largely
Kubuntu's packagers.  They're the people who decided KDE4 was ready to
put into a stable release - and they're the people who should be
monitoring this list.
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Re: Kmenu and KDE4

Derek Broughton-2
In reply to this post by Knapp
Knapp wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 12:43 AM, Jonathan Jesse <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> Sorry replying on my phone
>> I was not implyinh that non lts releases are testing... Let me go
>> back to another question then what is the difference between a stable
>> and non stable release???  8.10 bis very stable on my Dell Lattitude

The way Ubuntu works, I expect any _release_ to be stable.  Jaunty
Jiraffe (9.04) is not stable.  By May, it will be a stable release.

> I would say that unstable has known bugs that crash the system. Stable
> has no known bugs that can take out the system and perhaps all the
> programs are stable as well, IE not crashing.

And yet there are known (even fixed upstream) bugs that are not fixed in
Intrepid, and _will_ not be fixed in the next release.
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Re: Kmenu and KDE4

Knapp
In reply to this post by Derek Broughton-2
> But the whole problem with KDE4 is a
> _distro_ problem, not a KDE one.  KDE4 isn't ready for inclusion in
> Kubuntu, and most other distros using KDE would seem to agree.

> In this case, though, the "developers" we're talking about are largely
> Kubuntu's packagers.  They're the people who decided KDE4 was ready to
> put into a stable release - and they're the people who should be
> monitoring this list.
> --
> derek

I could not agree more!! (but there are other distro's with kde4)

I thought that 8.04 was perfect with KDE4 as an option. It should have
stayed that way until 4 and it's software packages were stable or in
some cases even written.

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Re: Kmenu and KDE4

Art Alexion-3
In reply to this post by Knapp
On Tuesday 23 December 2008 15:53:59 Knapp wrote:
> > Which I think was the point of others who suggested that developers OUGHT
> > to monitor lists concerning their projects.
> >
> > Some development teams seem to designate one from the team to monitor and
> > participate in the lists.  I believe this is a good practice.
> >

>
> I agree but what if that person has biases?

EVERYONE has biases. Nonetheless, someone should have their nose to the
ground.


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Re: Kmenu and KDE4

Art Alexion-3
In reply to this post by Derek Broughton-2
On Tuesday 23 December 2008 17:15:04 Derek Broughton wrote:
> In this case, though, the "developers" we're talking about are largely
> Kubuntu's packagers.  They're the people who decided KDE4 was ready to
> put into a stable release - and they're the people who should be
> monitoring this list.

Jonathan Riddel USED to monitor this list, and occasionally post.  He may
still monitor it, but post rarely.

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Re: Kmenu and KDE4

Knapp
In reply to this post by Art Alexion-3
On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 7:55 PM, Art Alexion <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tuesday 23 December 2008 15:53:59 Knapp wrote:
>> > Which I think was the point of others who suggested that developers OUGHT
>> > to monitor lists concerning their projects.
>> >
>> > Some development teams seem to designate one from the team to monitor and
>> > participate in the lists.  I believe this is a good practice.
>> >
>
>>
>> I agree but what if that person has biases?
>
> EVERYONE has biases. Nonetheless, someone should have their nose to the
> ground.
>
Agreed. But there are the people that acknowledge this and do there
best to avoid them like good scientists should and then those that
will edit and change things just to promote their ideas. I was
thinking about the later type.

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