Kubuntu 18.04.2 LTS -> Ubuntu 19.04

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Re: Kubuntu 18.04.2 LTS -> Ubuntu 19.04

Volker Wysk
Am Sonntag, den 16.06.2019, 13:32 +0100 schrieb Colin Watson:

> On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 02:16:42PM +0200, Volker Wysk wrote:
> > What I'm not sure about: Is a KDE version contained in Ubuntu (no
> > "K"),
> > or is it only in Kubuntu? I don't want to give it up completely. At
> > least there are some KDE programs which I want to keep using.
>
> Ubuntu Desktop [1] and Kubuntu are both part of the same Ubuntu
> package
> archive.  The released images preinstall different sets of packages
> from
> that archive, but each has the same archive available on installed
> systems.
>
> Put differently: the Ubuntu Desktop images don't contain KDE, but an
> installed Ubuntu Desktop system can install KDE-based packages just
> as
> an installed Kubuntu system can.  Many Ubuntu Desktop users use the
> odd
> KDE-based package, just as they use any of a wide variety of other
> packages that aren't actually part of the base installation.
>
> [1] I'm clarifying this in a way that would normally be a bit
> pedantic,
>     as unmarked "Ubuntu" can be used to refer to either the
> "flagship"
>     desktop and server editions, or to the package archive (or indeed
>     project) as a whole.
>

You have made it clear. Thanks.

Volker



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Re: Kubuntu 18.04.2 LTS -> Ubuntu 19.04

Volker Wysk
In reply to this post by Colin Law
Am Montag, den 17.06.2019, 15:42 +0100 schrieb Colin Law:

> On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 at 13:19, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > ...
> > It's perfectly possible to run Gnome and KDE side-by-side in the
> > same
> > system. That's what I'me doing right now. No dual boot necessary.
>
> If you are already doing it I don't understand what this thread is
> all
> about.  Why not just carry on as you are?

I want to upgrade to the latest Ubuntu and (included) Gnome versions.
And I wanted to know if I can keep my complex installation with all
that stuff I've set up. This would mean to go from Kubuntu 18.04 to
Ubuntu 19.04. But I kind of have abandoned this idea now, and probably
will build a new Ubuntu 19.04 based system from scratch.

Bye
Volker


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Re: Kubuntu 18.04.2 LTS -> Ubuntu 19.04

Colin Law
On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 16:04, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Am Montag, den 17.06.2019, 15:42 +0100 schrieb Colin Law:
> > On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 at 13:19, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > ...
> > > It's perfectly possible to run Gnome and KDE side-by-side in the
> > > same
> > > system. That's what I'me doing right now. No dual boot necessary.
> >
> > If you are already doing it I don't understand what this thread is
> > all
> > about.  Why not just carry on as you are?
>
> I want to upgrade to the latest Ubuntu and (included) Gnome versions.
> And I wanted to know if I can keep my complex installation with all
> that stuff I've set up. This would mean to go from Kubuntu 18.04 to
> Ubuntu 19.04. But I kind of have abandoned this idea now, and probably
> will build a new Ubuntu 19.04 based system from scratch.

Just upgrade your existing system to 19.04 and that will give you the
same Gnome (and everything else) version as a fresh install of 19.04,
assuming you installed gnome from the Ubuntu repo.

Colin

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Re: Kubuntu 18.04.2 LTS -> Ubuntu 19.04

C de-Avillez-2
Just for reference: I am been running Ubuntu on my primary laptop
with *both Gnome and KDE installed, and I have been doing so for
many releases already. Every so often I get unhappy with one, or
the other, and switch (you do that on the login screens).

I have not had a situation where both DEs are -- at the same time --
unusable. Right now (19.04) I am running KDE.

Cheers,

..C..

On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 3:08 PM Colin Law <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 16:04, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Am Montag, den 17.06.2019, 15:42 +0100 schrieb Colin Law:
> > > On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 at 13:19, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > > It's perfectly possible to run Gnome and KDE side-by-side in the
> > > > same
> > > > system. That's what I'me doing right now. No dual boot necessary.
> > >
> > > If you are already doing it I don't understand what this thread is
> > > all
> > > about.  Why not just carry on as you are?
> >
> > I want to upgrade to the latest Ubuntu and (included) Gnome versions.
> > And I wanted to know if I can keep my complex installation with all
> > that stuff I've set up. This would mean to go from Kubuntu 18.04 to
> > Ubuntu 19.04. But I kind of have abandoned this idea now, and probably
> > will build a new Ubuntu 19.04 based system from scratch.
>
> Just upgrade your existing system to 19.04 and that will give you the
> same Gnome (and everything else) version as a fresh install of 19.04,
> assuming you installed gnome from the Ubuntu repo.
>
> Colin
>
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Re: Kubuntu 18.04.2 LTS -> Ubuntu 19.04

Volker Wysk
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
Am Montag, den 17.06.2019, 16:42 +0200 schrieb Liam Proven:

> On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 at 14:19, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > I've been a KDE user for many years, but I've finally come to the
> > conclusion that it's - still! - too buggy and unstable. I finally
> > want
> > a system that "just works". I don't want to spend my time fighting
> > with
> > bugs.
>
> I started using desktop Linux when KDE came out. I was a big fan of
> KDE 1, got on all right with KDE 2, found KDE 3 too bloated and KDE 4
> totally unusable. KDE 5 is marginally better than 4 but not
> significantly, for me.
>
> In other words: Linux is Linux. Desktops are what they are. They're
> _all_ buggy, _all_ unstable to some degree.

And some are buggy to a higher degree than others. You wrote it
yourself: KDE4/5 are totally unusable.

I agree. I'm having trouble with KDE Plasma as well as with KDE
Applications (KDEPIM, in particular). KMail would be wonderful, if it
worked...


> If you move to another expecting stability, you *will* be
> disappointed.

I'm not expecting I can get something completely stable. But it should
be usable.


> KDE is the most mature Linux desktop there is.

You mean KDE 3, or what? It wasn't meant as a joke, was it? :->

If you mean just Plasma, there are parts that aren't mature at all.


> Pretty much the _least_ stable is GNOME, where with v3 they dumped
> the
> entire, mature, well-loved by everyone, even used in Solaris, GNOME 3
> and started over with a poorly-planned, designed-by-committee new
> look.

I don't know which way it has come into being, but I like Gnome 3 very
much. It's a new, innovative user interface, and I think it is very
useful.

> It would be the _last_ I recommend. Seriously. And I've tried them
> all
> over 23 years working with Linux.
>
> > Just take a look at the kdepim-users mailing list...
>
> Don't confuse the desktop with the bundled apps.

The KDE which I'm talking about, is a collaboration of the Plasma
Desktop and the applications. For instance the desktop search would be
great, but I've never got it to work for me.

>
> Problems with  the apps? Then don't use them.

I want integration with the overall desktop.

>
> It is significant that many distros' KDE versions don't use the KDE
> apps and replace them with Firefox, Thunderbird, LibreOffice, etc.
> Why? Because they are Linux best-of-breed.

I have to concede that I don't really know what kinds of magic KDE can
do, when it actually works. That's because it never worked for me. But
using a stripped down KDE, with core applications replaced, won't
unleash KDE's full potentional. That's what I think.


> KDE lost the battle to GNOME 2.
>
> The GNOME project decided to throw all that goodwill away.

> So I never recommend it.
>
> Secondly, if you're planning to go from LTS + mature desktop to
> short-term PLUS unstable desktop, you are _not_ going to be pleased
> with the stability of the result.

Who says that Gnome 3 is unstable? Who says that KDE 5 is mature
(except for you)?  WTF?

> > It's a pity, since I think KDE is really good, feature-wise. If it
> > just
> > worked...
>
> Good for you. I can't stand it myself but that's just me. I want
> vertical taskbars and KDE can't do them well.
>
> If you want the most stable, slowest-changing, most reliable desktop,
> then try Xfce.

That's good to know...

> It's what I use now that Unity is basically dead.
>
> And Xfce is the same in LTS and short-term releases so you miss
> nothing.
>
> And it can be configured to look just like KDE, unlike GNOME 3.
>
> > I've read somewhere that Gnome is released half-year wise, just
> > like
> > Ubuntu. So (I think), the latest Ubuntu version always contains the
> > latest Gnome version.
>
> It is an this is why Ubuntu has a 6mth release cycle.
>
> You realise this is the opposite of stable and reliable, right?

No, I don't. AFAIK the half-year Gnome releases are meant to be tested
and stable.

> > As I've written: I want do switch to Gnome.
> >
> > I've used Gnome for some week now, and it *just works*.
>
> I submit you've not had time to feel the pain yet.

This could be.

>
> > > Are you running a separate /home filesystem?
> >
> > No.
> >
> > >
> > > You should.
> > >
> > > If you do, you can dual boot them & share a home directory
> > > between
> > > Kubuntu and Ubuntu GNOME.
> >
> > It's perfectly possible to run Gnome and KDE side-by-side in the
> > same
> > system. That's what I'me doing right now. No dual boot necessary.
>
> You miss my point.
>
> You could share it between LTS+KDE and short-
> term+GNOME/Xfce/whatever.

You also could share it between short-term+KDE and short-term+Gnome. No
dual boot required. I'm not particulary keen (any longer) on having an
LTS release.


> > I think I will take the trouble and setup a new, clean Ubuntu
> > 19.04.
> >
> > What I'm not sure about: Is a KDE version contained in Ubuntu (no
> > "K"),
> > or is it only in Kubuntu? I don't want to give it up completely. At
> > least there are some KDE programs which I want to keep using.
>
> The Ubuntu repos contain all the desktops used by all the remixes,
> and
> several more which are not the default for any remix.
>
> > I guess I could use the Kubuntu PPAs in order to get Kubuntu
> > programs
> > in Ubuntu, but is this supported?
>
> You don't need to. There is only one set of standard Ubuntu repos.
> Everything for all desktops is in there.


> I think your reasoning as discussed here is flawed and I would urge
> you to reconsider. I think you're letting yourself in for a world of
> pain, with more of the problems you say that you want to get away
> from: instability, bugginess, etc.

I don't agree with everything you wrote, but you still got me
wondering. I think I'll stay on Kubuntu 18.04+Gnome for a few months,
in order to get to know Gnome better.

Thanks for your time,
Volker


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Re: Kubuntu 18.04.2 LTS -> Ubuntu 19.04

ubuntu-users mailing list
In reply to this post by Colin Law
On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 15:42:43 +0100, Colin Law wrote:
>Why not just carry on as you are?

The support of software from 'universe' packages might enforce a release
upgrade to some users.

When for example Yahoo unfortunately ended the free weather service in
January, the weather plugin for lxpanel before around git 0.9.3.r2448
stopped working. I don't know at what commit exactly, maybe it's exactly
2448 that replaced the weather service. However, for my 16.04 install I
build a package with the new weather plugin myself. Some users might be
unable to do it and there not necessarily is a PPA or snap available for
some packages, that necessarily need an update, because the software
provided stopped working. Such an issue might not happen for packages
from 'main'.


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Re: Kubuntu 18.04.2 LTS -> Ubuntu 19.04

Paul Smith-2
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Mon, 2019-06-17 at 16:42 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:
> It would be the _last_ I recommend. Seriously. And I've tried them
> all over 23 years working with Linux.

Gnome3 is the best all-around DE available today.  Seriously.  And I've
been working with GNU/Linux for 26 years, and other UNIX systems with
many and varied X desktop environments before that as well.


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Re: Kubuntu 18.04.2 LTS -> Ubuntu 19.04

Liam Proven
On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 19:13, Paul Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Gnome3 is the best all-around DE available today.  Seriously.  And I've
> been working with GNU/Linux for 26 years, and other UNIX systems with
> many and varied X desktop environments before that as well.

I strongly disagree.

I tried to present my views as opinions. I can elaborate on why I feel
the way that I do as much as you wish.

You are presenting your opinion as a flat out fact, and that is
unfair, unreasonable and unjustified.


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Re: Kubuntu 18.04.2 LTS -> Ubuntu 19.04

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Volker Wysk
On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 18:08, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> And some are buggy to a higher degree than others. You wrote it
> yourself: KDE4/5 are totally unusable.

*For me*. I have colleagues who love it.

I don't like it. It is not "unusable."

> I agree. I'm having trouble with KDE Plasma as well as with KDE
> Applications (KDEPIM, in particular). KMail would be wonderful, if it
> worked...

So don't use KMail, then. There are *dozens* of email clients included
with Ubuntu.

I personally use Thunderbird, which I find works very well, and also
runs on my Mac at home and under Windows if I really need it.

> I'm not expecting I can get something completely stable. But it should
> be usable.

Of course you can get completely stable, if that's what you want above
all else. But it means something slow-changing, with fewer
cutting-edge features.

Xfce is about the most stable, slowest-changing Linux desktop, but if
you go for something even more basic, like a plain window manager, you
will get more stable still.

E.g. take a look at BunsenLabs.

https://www.bunsenlabs.org/

No "desktop" as such, just OpenBox.

> > KDE is the most mature Linux desktop there is.
>
> You mean KDE 3, or what? It wasn't meant as a joke, was it? :->

No. KDE is 21 years old. Nothing else is older or more mature than that.

> I don't know which way it has come into being, but I like Gnome 3 very
> much. It's a new, innovative user interface, and I think it is very
> useful.

Fine, if you like it. But as I said, it's still under rapid
development and major features are coming and going. E.g. a recent
release dropped support for desktop icons.

https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/01/gnome-desktop-icons-removed-3-28

The team are also working on a major memory leak problem.

https://feaneron.com/2018/04/20/the-infamous-gnome-shell-memory-leak/

These are big changes.

Stable it is *not*.

> The KDE which I'm talking about, is a collaboration of the Plasma
> Desktop and the applications. For instance the desktop search would be
> great, but I've never got it to work for me.

People collaborate, not software.

I only use desktop search on macOS, because I find on other platforms
it saps performance.

If you like KDE but have problems with the KDE apps, replace the apps.

E.g. a colleague of mine uses KDE but Thunderbird for
email/contacts/diary, Firefox and Chrome browsers, different editors,
etc. She does not use many of the KDE apps at all.

It's all separate. You can use GNOME apps on a KDE desktop, or KDE
apps on the GNOME desktop.

It does take a lot more disk space, though.

I prefer to keep my system relatively simple, so I favour
lighter-weight tools such as Geany than the big GNOME tools with their
tons of GNOME libraries.

> I want integration with the overall desktop.

Try it. Different desktops' apps integrate just fine.

> I have to concede that I don't really know what kinds of magic KDE can
> do, when it actually works. That's because it never worked for me.

Then why have you been, in your own words, using it for so long?

> But
> using a stripped down KDE, with core applications replaced, won't
> unleash KDE's full potentional. That's what I think.

It absolutely can and does. You get KDE's menus, window management,
file manager if you want, but other productivity apps.

The stories about integration are mostly marketing.

Public Enemy said it best:  "Don't believe the hype."

> Who says that Gnome 3 is unstable?

Me, based on extensive testing. Also see my links above.

> Who says that KDE 5 is mature
> (except for you)?  WTF?

Me, as I have been using it and testing it since 1998.

> > You realise this is the opposite of stable and reliable, right?
>
> No, I don't. AFAIK the half-year Gnome releases are meant to be tested
> and stable.

Somewhat. Not much in Linux is stable.

Anything  which releases according to a calendar, and not when it
works, is not going to be as stable as something which is only
released as and when it passes testing and not before.

> You also could share it between short-term+KDE and short-term+Gnome. No
> dual boot required. I'm not particulary keen (any longer) on having an
> LTS release.

And yet you keep saying you want stability.

Do you not see the contradiction here?

> I don't agree with everything you wrote, but you still got me
> wondering.

Well, good!

> I think I'll stay on Kubuntu 18.04+Gnome for a few months,
> in order to get to know Gnome better.

Sounds fair. Also do try Xfce.

And if you want something minimal that works with Qt apps and themes,
try LXQt. But it's very new and immature yet. I find it works but not
well.

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Re: Kubuntu 18.04.2 LTS -> Ubuntu 19.04

ubuntu-users mailing list
On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 13:49:28 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:
>Xfce is about the most stable, slowest-changing Linux desktop

If "most stable" is for a critical bug, of the desktop environment's
file manager, such as causing loss of files, then yes. Yes, it's
absolutely changing slow, hence users could have a lot of fun with this
critical bug.

https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce/2016-January/034796.html

Btw. is it fixed?


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Re: Kubuntu 18.04.2 LTS -> Ubuntu 19.04

Volker Wysk
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
Am Dienstag, den 18.06.2019, 13:49 +0200 schrieb Liam Proven:

> On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 18:08, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > And some are buggy to a higher degree than others. You wrote it
> > yourself: KDE4/5 are totally unusable.
>
> *For me*. I have colleagues who love it.
>
> I don't like it. It is not "unusable."
>
> > I agree. I'm having trouble with KDE Plasma as well as with KDE
> > Applications (KDEPIM, in particular). KMail would be wonderful, if
> > it
> > worked...
>
> So don't use KMail, then. There are *dozens* of email clients
> included
> with Ubuntu.

KMail breaking again, was the last straw for me. I then switched to
Claws Mail, which works reasonably well, and now I'm using Evolution,
which works even better.

> I personally use Thunderbird, which I find works very well, and also
> runs on my Mac at home and under Windows if I really need it.
>
> > I'm not expecting I can get something completely stable. But it
> > should
> > be usable.
>
> Of course you can get completely stable, if that's what you want
> above
> all else.

After all the frustration with KDE, I emphasise stability. But that's
not the only thing that's important for me. I want the latest and
greatest features. And desktop search, the Semantic Desktop,
integration between the parts, and more.

> But it means something slow-changing, with fewer
> cutting-edge features.
>
> Xfce is about the most stable, slowest-changing Linux desktop, but if
> you go for something even more basic, like a plain window manager,
> you
> will get more stable still.
>
> E.g. take a look at BunsenLabs.
>
> https://www.bunsenlabs.org/
>
> No "desktop" as such, just OpenBox.
>
> > > KDE is the most mature Linux desktop there is.
> >
> > You mean KDE 3, or what? It wasn't meant as a joke, was it? :->
>
> No. KDE is 21 years old. Nothing else is older or more mature than
> that.

So the Nepomuk/Baloo/Akonadi/KDEPIM/Kmail disasters are signs of
maturity?

>
> > I don't know which way it has come into being, but I like Gnome 3
> > very
> > much. It's a new, innovative user interface, and I think it is very
> > useful.
>
> Fine, if you like it. But as I said, it's still under rapid
> development

That's the reason I want to go to non-LTS release.

> and major features are coming and going. E.g. a recent
> release dropped support for desktop icons.
>
> https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/01/gnome-desktop-icons-removed-3-28
>
> The team are also working on a major memory leak problem.
>
> https://feaneron.com/2018/04/20/the-infamous-gnome-shell-memory-leak/
>
> These are big changes.
>
> Stable it is *not*.

The "stability" I'm talking about, means somewhat like "running without
crashing or other problems". The "stability" you're talking about
means, I think, "retaining the user interface and features".

> > The KDE which I'm talking about, is a collaboration of the Plasma
> > Desktop and the applications. For instance the desktop search would
> > be
> > great, but I've never got it to work for me.
>
> People collaborate, not software.

People collaborate to build software that collaborates.  :-)

>
> I only use desktop search on macOS, because I find on other platforms
> it saps performance.
>
> If you like KDE but have problems with the KDE apps, replace the
> apps.
>
> E.g. a colleague of mine uses KDE but Thunderbird for
> email/contacts/diary, Firefox and Chrome browsers, different editors,
> etc. She does not use many of the KDE apps at all.
>
> It's all separate. You can use GNOME apps on a KDE desktop, or KDE
> apps on the GNOME desktop.
>
> It does take a lot more disk space, though.

In the age of Terabyte-harddisks?


> I prefer to keep my system relatively simple, so I favour
> lighter-weight tools such as Geany than the big GNOME tools with
> their
> tons of GNOME libraries.
>
> > I want integration with the overall desktop.
>
> Try it. Different desktops' apps integrate just fine.
>
> > I have to concede that I don't really know what kinds of magic KDE
> > can
> > do, when it actually works. That's because it never worked for me.
>
> Then why have you been, in your own words, using it for so long?

Good question. It *does* work to some degree, most of the time. And
what you get to see is really good, when it runs like it should. And
there is always the hope that the KDE project will recover from its
KDE4 disaster, and become productive again. And recover from the broken
Akonadi (KDEPIM) and baloo parts.

Also there is a strong sense of loyalty towards KDE, which I have
abandoned by now.

> > But
> > using a stripped down KDE, with core applications replaced, won't
> > unleash KDE's full potentional. That's what I think.
>
> It absolutely can and does. You get KDE's menus, window management,
> file manager if you want, but other productivity apps.
>
> The stories about integration are mostly marketing.
>
> Public Enemy said it best:  "Don't believe the hype."
>
> > Who says that Gnome 3 is unstable?
>
> Me, based on extensive testing. Also see my links above.
>
> > Who says that KDE 5 is mature
> > (except for you)?  WTF?
>
> Me, as I have been using it and testing it since 1998.
>
> > > You realise this is the opposite of stable and reliable, right?
> >
> > No, I don't. AFAIK the half-year Gnome releases are meant to be
> > tested
> > and stable.
>
> Somewhat. Not much in Linux is stable.
>
> Anything  which releases according to a calendar, and not when it
> works, is not going to be as stable as something which is only
> released as and when it passes testing and not before.
>
> > You also could share it between short-term+KDE and short-
> > term+Gnome. No
> > dual boot required. I'm not particulary keen (any longer) on having
> > an
> > LTS release.
>
> And yet you keep saying you want stability.
>
> Do you not see the contradiction here?

Does that mean that LTS releases are more thoroughly tested and
debugged than normal releases? I thought that what makes an LTS version
is just the longer support with security updates and backports.

> > I don't agree with everything you wrote, but you still got me
> > wondering.
>
> Well, good!
>
> > I think I'll stay on Kubuntu 18.04+Gnome for a few months,
> > in order to get to know Gnome better.
>
> Sounds fair. Also do try Xfce.
>
> And if you want something minimal that works with Qt apps and themes,
> try LXQt. But it's very new and immature yet. I find it works but not
> well.


Happy hacking,
Volker


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Re: Kubuntu 18.04.2 LTS -> Ubuntu 19.04

Paul Smith-2
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Tue, 2019-06-18 at 13:34 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 19:13, Paul Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Gnome3 is the best all-around DE available today.  Seriously.  And
> > I've been working with GNU/Linux for 26 years, and other UNIX
> > systems with many and varied X desktop environments before that as
> > well.
>
> I strongly disagree.
>
> I tried to present my views as opinions. I can elaborate on why I
> feel the way that I do as much as you wish.
>
> You are presenting your opinion as a flat out fact, and that is
> unfair, unreasonable and unjustified.

That's funny, because I used _literally_ the same words you did, only
updated to make them true for me.

If you think that your text reads as "representing your views as
opinions" while my text reads as "presenting my opinion as fact", you
should take a step back and reconsider.  More examples:

> KDE is the most mature Linux desktop there is.
>
> Pretty much the _least_ stable is GNOME, where with v3 they dumped
> the entire, mature, well-loved by everyone, even used in Solaris,
> GNOME 3 and started over with a poorly-planned, designed-by-committee
> new look.

I usually just ignore all the Gnome bashing on this list; it seems to
be a hobby for a few vocal folks and everyone needs a hobby.  But every
now and then I feel compelled to respond to a particularly egregious
display and remind those out there considering what DE to use that
Gnome is the most used GNU/Linux desktop and all the major distros ship
it by default for a reason.

I use Gnome on both a desktop at home and a laptop, which is constantly
being opened/closed/attached to a docking station where I have two
external monitors and a wireless logitech keyboard/mouse, I attach
various USB mic/audio pods for meetings, use video, cast to TVs in
conference rooms, etc. and it Just Works.  I reboot maybe once or twice
a month, to install new kernel upgrades.

I've installed exactly three extensions, to do minor things like put a
system monitor on the top panel and to add quick-start icons to the top
panel, and to put audio selection in the status menu.

Gnome works, is stable, handles all the hardware configurations I use,
and stays out of my way.  I hardly ever think about it which is exactly
as it should be.


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Re: Kubuntu 18.04.2 LTS -> Ubuntu 19.04

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by ubuntu-users mailing list
On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 at 14:45, Ralf Mardorf via ubuntu-users
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If "most stable" is for a critical bug, of the desktop environment's
> file manager, such as causing loss of files, then yes. Yes, it's
> absolutely changing slow, hence users could have a lot of fun with this
> critical bug.
>
> https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce/2016-January/034796.html
>
> Btw. is it fixed?

Never heard of that one. Nasty.

No idea of current status. All the reports are from 3-4 years ago.


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Re: Kubuntu 18.04.2 LTS -> Ubuntu 19.04

Gene Heskett-2
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Tuesday 18 June 2019 07:49:28 am Liam Proven wrote:

> On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 18:08, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > And some are buggy to a higher degree than others. You wrote it
> > yourself: KDE4/5 are totally unusable.
>
> *For me*. I have colleagues who love it.
>
> I don't like it. It is not "unusable."
>
> > I agree. I'm having trouble with KDE Plasma as well as with KDE
> > Applications (KDEPIM, in particular). KMail would be wonderful, if
> > it worked...
>
> So don't use KMail, then. There are *dozens* of email clients included
> with Ubuntu.
>
> I personally use Thunderbird, which I find works very well, and also
> runs on my Mac at home and under Windows if I really need it.
>
> > I'm not expecting I can get something completely stable. But it
> > should be usable.
>
> Of course you can get completely stable, if that's what you want above
> all else. But it means something slow-changing, with fewer
> cutting-edge features.
>
> Xfce is about the most stable, slowest-changing Linux desktop, but if
> you go for something even more basic, like a plain window manager, you
> will get more stable still.
>
> E.g. take a look at BunsenLabs.
>
> https://www.bunsenlabs.org/
>
> No "desktop" as such, just OpenBox.
>
> > > KDE is the most mature Linux desktop there is.
> >
> > You mean KDE 3, or what? It wasn't meant as a joke, was it? :->
>
> No. KDE is 21 years old. Nothing else is older or more mature than
> that.
>
And if the latest kde is a PITA, then look up trinity, its kde, forked
from about the 3.5 point, with hundreds of loooonngg standing bugs
fixed. Currently running R14.0.6 here, and the only problem I've had was
kmail fubaring its folder indexes.

Shut down kmail, nuke them all and restart kmail, with my size of email
corpus it will take 15 to 20 minutes to regenerate the indices, during
that time no display.  End of problem for years.

> > I don't know which way it has come into being, but I like Gnome 3
> > very much. It's a new, innovative user interface, and I think it is
> > very useful.
>
> Fine, if you like it. But as I said, it's still under rapid
> development and major features are coming and going. E.g. a recent
> release dropped support for desktop icons.
>
> https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/01/gnome-desktop-icons-removed-3-28
>
> The team are also working on a major memory leak problem.
>
> https://feaneron.com/2018/04/20/the-infamous-gnome-shell-memory-leak/
>
> These are big changes.
>
> Stable it is *not*.
>
> > The KDE which I'm talking about, is a collaboration of the Plasma
> > Desktop and the applications. For instance the desktop search would
> > be great, but I've never got it to work for me.
>
> People collaborate, not software.
>
> I only use desktop search on macOS, because I find on other platforms
> it saps performance.
>
> If you like KDE but have problems with the KDE apps, replace the apps.
>
> E.g. a colleague of mine uses KDE but Thunderbird for
> email/contacts/diary, Firefox and Chrome browsers, different editors,
> etc. She does not use many of the KDE apps at all.
>
> It's all separate. You can use GNOME apps on a KDE desktop, or KDE
> apps on the GNOME desktop.
>
> It does take a lot more disk space, though.
>
> I prefer to keep my system relatively simple, so I favour
> lighter-weight tools such as Geany than the big GNOME tools with their
> tons of GNOME libraries.
>
> > I want integration with the overall desktop.
>
> Try it. Different desktops' apps integrate just fine.
>
> > I have to concede that I don't really know what kinds of magic KDE
> > can do, when it actually works. That's because it never worked for
> > me.
>
> Then why have you been, in your own words, using it for so long?
>
> > But
> > using a stripped down KDE, with core applications replaced, won't
> > unleash KDE's full potentional. That's what I think.
>
> It absolutely can and does. You get KDE's menus, window management,
> file manager if you want, but other productivity apps.
>
> The stories about integration are mostly marketing.
>
> Public Enemy said it best:  "Don't believe the hype."
>
> > Who says that Gnome 3 is unstable?
>
> Me, based on extensive testing. Also see my links above.
>
> > Who says that KDE 5 is mature
> > (except for you)?  WTF?
>
> Me, as I have been using it and testing it since 1998.
>
> > > You realise this is the opposite of stable and reliable, right?
> >
> > No, I don't. AFAIK the half-year Gnome releases are meant to be
> > tested and stable.
>
> Somewhat. Not much in Linux is stable.
>
> Anything  which releases according to a calendar, and not when it
> works, is not going to be as stable as something which is only
> released as and when it passes testing and not before.
>
> > You also could share it between short-term+KDE and short-term+Gnome.
> > No dual boot required. I'm not particulary keen (any longer) on
> > having an LTS release.
>
> And yet you keep saying you want stability.
>
> Do you not see the contradiction here?
>
> > I don't agree with everything you wrote, but you still got me
> > wondering.
>
> Well, good!
>
> > I think I'll stay on Kubuntu 18.04+Gnome for a few months,
> > in order to get to know Gnome better.
>
> Sounds fair. Also do try Xfce.
>
> And if you want something minimal that works with Qt apps and themes,
> try LXQt. But it's very new and immature yet. I find it works but not
> well.
>
> --
> Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: [hidden email] - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus:
> [hidden email] Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn:
> liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420
> 702 829 053


Cheers, Gene Heskett
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 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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