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LibreOffice menu problem remains

Liam Proven
So I am now running beta 2 of Raring, I guess, and LibreOffice's menus
still are completely inaccessible via the keyboard.

This is a really serious problem. It renders the entire suite unusable for me.

Is there any official way to draw more attention to this really quite
critical bug?

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Re: LibreOffice menu problem remains

Phill Whiteside
Hi,

well that provoked a 'wtf' from the head of quality / testing. He is filing a bug. As you correctly state, this is an issue. I will post up the bug number once Nicholas has raised it. Please log onto to the system and click on the "affects me" portion to receive updates on its progress.

Regards,

Phill.


On 23 April 2013 18:05, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
So I am now running beta 2 of Raring, I guess, and LibreOffice's menus
still are completely inaccessible via the keyboard.

This is a really serious problem. It renders the entire suite unusable for me.

Is there any official way to draw more attention to this really quite
critical bug?

--
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Re: LibreOffice menu problem remains

Nicholas Skaggs
I thought this was fixed, but see these couple bugs:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/739184
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1085169

If you can confirm the new version linked (in a ppa, from bug reports) is working for you, you can help the developer push an SRU update. I hope this helps!

Nicholas

On 04/23/2013 01:26 PM, Phill Whiteside wrote:
Hi,

well that provoked a 'wtf' from the head of quality / testing. He is filing a bug. As you correctly state, this is an issue. I will post up the bug number once Nicholas has raised it. Please log onto to the system and click on the "affects me" portion to receive updates on its progress.

Regards,

Phill.


On 23 April 2013 18:05, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
So I am now running beta 2 of Raring, I guess, and LibreOffice's menus
still are completely inaccessible via the keyboard.

This is a really serious problem. It renders the entire suite unusable for me.

Is there any official way to draw more attention to this really quite
critical bug?

--
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Re: LibreOffice menu problem remains

Colin Law-4
In reply to this post by Phill Whiteside
On 23 April 2013 18:26, Phill Whiteside <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> well that provoked a 'wtf' from the head of quality / testing. He is filing
> a bug. As you correctly state, this is an issue. I will post up the bug
> number once Nicholas has raised it. Please log onto to the system and click
> on the "affects me" portion to receive updates on its progress.

Is it not this bug, [1] which it appears is currently being worked on?

Colin

[1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/739184

>
> Regards,
>
> Phill.
>
>
> On 23 April 2013 18:05, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> So I am now running beta 2 of Raring, I guess, and LibreOffice's menus
>> still are completely inaccessible via the keyboard.
>>
>> This is a really serious problem. It renders the entire suite unusable for
>> me.
>>
>> Is there any official way to draw more attention to this really quite
>> critical bug?
>>
>> --
>> Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
>> Email: [hidden email] • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
>> MSN: [hidden email] • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
>> Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884
>>
>> --
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
>>
>> --
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw
>
>
> --
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Re: LibreOffice menu problem remains

Phill Whiteside
I do not use libreoffice

but for your advice...

(18:10:22) balloons: tea time.. irish tea, but not milk.. don't hurt me!
(18:11:22) phillw: slip a shot of whisky into it :)
(18:11:25) phillw: So I am now running beta 2 of Raring, I guess, and LibreOffice's menus
(18:11:25) phillw: still are completely inaccessible via the keyboard.
(18:11:25) phillw: This is a really serious problem. It renders the entire suite unusable for me.
(18:11:25) phillw: Is there any official way to draw more attention to this really quite
(18:11:25) phillw: critical bug?
(18:11:52) ***balloons goes to check
(18:11:54) phillw: do we have a test case for libre? it's not shipped by default in lubuntu
(18:11:57) balloons: they were working for me
(18:12:14) balloons: well wtf
(18:12:36) balloons: this is like the precise libreoffice menu bug I found at the last minute
(18:12:39) phillw: borked?
(18:12:46) balloons: yea, borked
(18:12:50) balloons: let me ping someone
(18:13:10) balloons: do you have a bug for this/
(18:13:19) balloons: if not, please file and link me
(18:13:24) phillw: one of the guys on ubuntu-uk mailing list just flagged it up
(18:13:35) phillw: I don't have it installed
(18:13:47) balloons: is there a bug listed?
(18:14:08) phillw: He does not mention one.
(18:14:43) phillw: So, maybe better you file it and I reply to him with the bug and tell him 'affects me'
(18:15:14) phillw: I've no idea how 'bug savvy' he is,
(18:15:28) balloons: kk
(18:15:52) phillw: but a reply to all onto the ubuntu-uk mailing list should be able to get someone to confirm it :)
(18:16:26) phillw: ***JUST** what we want 2 days before release day :(
(18:53:40) balloons: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=57104
(18:54:01) balloons: looks like this might be something bigger.. but it is apparently? known.. going to track bugs
(18:54:28) balloons: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/739184
(18:55:10) balloons: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1085169
(18:59:35) balloons: I had seen this earlier, but apparently it came back
(19:06:55) phillw: okies
(19:24:36) phillw: is there a 'master' bug number I can send the OP
(19:29:01) balloons: those are the master bugs
(19:29:09) balloons: the 2 lp bugs
(19:29:37) phillw: thanks, I'll let the guy know.
(19:30:09) phillw: btw, what ails you? (what are you ill with)?
(19:31:05) balloons: flu
(19:31:07) balloons: :-(
(19:31:43) phillw: yukkie :/ .. and thanks for replying to the OP :)

I can only report an email bug to the quality team, in this case I asked the head. From here on, it is driven by teams not a part of QA/Testing.

Regards,

Phill,
P.S. balloons is Nicholas

On 23 April 2013 20:34, Colin Law <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 23 April 2013 18:26, Phill Whiteside <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> well that provoked a 'wtf' from the head of quality / testing. He is filing
> a bug. As you correctly state, this is an issue. I will post up the bug
> number once Nicholas has raised it. Please log onto to the system and click
> on the "affects me" portion to receive updates on its progress.

Is it not this bug, [1] which it appears is currently being worked on?

Colin

[1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/739184

>
> Regards,
>
> Phill.
>
>
> On 23 April 2013 18:05, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> So I am now running beta 2 of Raring, I guess, and LibreOffice's menus
>> still are completely inaccessible via the keyboard.
>>
>> This is a really serious problem. It renders the entire suite unusable for
>> me.
>>
>> Is there any official way to draw more attention to this really quite
>> critical bug?
>>
>> --
>> Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
>> Email: [hidden email] • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
>> MSN: [hidden email] • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
>> Tel: <a href="tel:%2B44%2020-8685-0498" value="+442086850498">+44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: <a href="tel:%2B44%207939-087884" value="+447939087884">+44 7939-087884
>>
>> --
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
>>
>> --
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw
>
>
> --
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Re: LibreOffice menu problem remains

Colin Law-4
In reply to this post by Nicholas Skaggs
On 23 April 2013 18:56, Nicholas Skaggs <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I thought this was fixed, but see these couple bugs:
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/739184
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1085169

There is also
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1045353
basically the HUD does not work at all in LO

Colin

>
> If you can confirm the new version linked (in a ppa, from bug reports) is
> working for you, you can help the developer push an SRU update. I hope this
> helps!



>
> Nicholas
>
>
> On 04/23/2013 01:26 PM, Phill Whiteside wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> well that provoked a 'wtf' from the head of quality / testing. He is filing
> a bug. As you correctly state, this is an issue. I will post up the bug
> number once Nicholas has raised it. Please log onto to the system and click
> on the "affects me" portion to receive updates on its progress.
>
> Regards,
>
> Phill.
>
>
> On 23 April 2013 18:05, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> So I am now running beta 2 of Raring, I guess, and LibreOffice's menus
>> still are completely inaccessible via the keyboard.
>>
>> This is a really serious problem. It renders the entire suite unusable for
>> me.
>>
>> Is there any official way to draw more attention to this really quite
>> critical bug?
>>
>> --
>> Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
>> Email: [hidden email] • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
>> MSN: [hidden email] • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
>> Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884
>>
>> --
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
>>
>> --
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw
>
>
>
> --
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
>

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Re: LibreOffice menu problem remains

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Phill Whiteside
On 23 April 2013 18:26, Phill Whiteside <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> well that provoked a 'wtf' from the head of quality / testing. He is filing
> a bug. As you correctly state, this is an issue. I will post up the bug
> number once Nicholas has raised it. Please log onto to the system and click
> on the "affects me" portion to receive updates on its progress.

I'm sorry, I should have named the outstanding Launchpad bugs.

I was already subscribed to Bug #739184 and Bug #1085169.

I have now subscribed to Bug #1064962 as well, but the description
does not seem correct for me. It does not matter if I open a fresh
copy of LO or double-click on a file & let the program open. *Any* way
I launch the program, the menus are inaccessible with the keyboard.

Currently I am running Microsoft Word 97 under WINE so that I can use
my machine! (Most of my work is writing.)

I have not noticed any problem with keyboard menu access in any other
apps, only LibreOffice.

As per several comments with those bugs, this has been a problem in
the past with the "lo-menubar" package and later with
"libreoffice-gtk" - but if these were removed, one could use the
menus, at the price of apps that didn't match the system theme. (On my
netbook running Precise, remove libreoffice-gtk also makes dialog
boxes much smaller so that they fit onto the 1024×768 screen, a
beneficial side-effect.)

But in Raring there is no GTK package to remove. I do not know of any
other workaround.

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Re: LibreOffice menu problem remains

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Colin Law-4
On 23 April 2013 21:40, Colin Law <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 23 April 2013 18:56, Nicholas Skaggs <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I thought this was fixed, but see these couple bugs:
>>
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/739184
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1085169
>
> There is also
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1045353
> basically the HUD does not work at all in LO

As someone who doesn't use the HUD, I'd forgotten this, but yes, this
is also true. When in LibreOffice, the HUD command-entry bar appears,
but the commands appear to be interpreted in the context of Nautilus,
not LO.

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Re: LibreOffice menu problem remains

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Nicholas Skaggs
On 23 April 2013 18:56, Nicholas Skaggs <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I thought this was fixed, but see these couple bugs:
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/739184
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1085169

I was already subscribed to both. This is a long-standing issue, but
now, it's the default.

> If you can confirm the new version linked (in a ppa, from bug reports) is
> working for you, you can help the developer push an SRU update. I hope this
> helps!

I will have a look.

Meantime, I have been experimenting. I have discovered that, while
removing libreoffice-gnome doesn't help, removing libreoffice-gtk
still works as a workaround. It makes the app look a bit basic &
old-fashioned but functionality is *always* more important than
æsthetics!

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Re: LibreOffice menu problem remains

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Nicholas Skaggs
On 23 April 2013 18:56, Nicholas Skaggs <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I thought this was fixed, but see these couple bugs:
>
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/739184
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1085169
>
> If you can confirm the new version linked (in a ppa, from bug reports) is
> working for you, you can help the developer push an SRU update. I hope this
> helps!

OK, I've looked through those 2 bugs. I can't see a PPA listed and I
don't know what an SRU update is, I'm afraid.

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Re: LibreOffice menu problem remains

Alan Pope-4
On 24/04/13 14:20, Liam Proven wrote:
> OK, I've looked through those 2 bugs. I can't see a PPA listed and I
> don't know what an SRU update is, I'm afraid.
>

SRUs are Stable Release Updates. The bug fixes you get post-release.
There are rigorous procedures in place for SRUs that don't apply when
we're in 'development mode' (i.e. pre-release).

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates

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Re: LibreOffice menu problem remains

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On 23 April 2013 18:05, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So I am now running beta 2 of Raring, I guess, and LibreOffice's menus
> still are completely inaccessible via the keyboard.
>
> This is a really serious problem. It renders the entire suite unusable for me.
>
> Is there any official way to draw more attention to this really quite
> critical bug?

Quick update. I think that 13.10 is now in the beta stage - is that correct?

This serious bug is /still/ present, 6mth later.

Mind you, it has been since 11.04, I think, so perhaps I am foolish to
expect to be able to control Ubuntu's office suite with the keyboard
LIKE I CAN WITH EVERY OTHER UBUNTU APPLICATION.


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Re: LibreOffice menu problem remains

Alan Pope-2
On 25 September 2013 16:18, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Quick update. I think that 13.10 is now in the beta stage - is that correct?
>
> This serious bug is /still/ present, 6mth later.
>
> Mind you, it has been since 11.04, I think, so perhaps I am foolish to
> expect to be able to control Ubuntu's office suite with the keyboard
> LIKE I CAN WITH EVERY OTHER UBUNTU APPLICATION.
>

Seems there's a workaround in the bug, to uninstall libreoffice-gtk
which makes it work, but makes Libreoffice pretty ugly in the process.

Cheers,
Al.

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Re: LibreOffice menu problem remains

Liam Proven
On 25 September 2013 16:30, Alan Pope <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Seems there's a workaround in the bug, to uninstall libreoffice-gtk
> which makes it work, but makes Libreoffice pretty ugly in the process.

This is true, yes. It's what I did on Precise & Raring.

Since then, on my desktop I switched to Mac OS X and on my laptop to
Xubuntu (as it works with my now-unsupported AMD RV620 GPU, which
Unity does not.)

I am trying the alphas of Saucy with Mir on the notebook to see if I
might be able to switch back to mainline Ubuntu post-13.10-release.

(I'll probably switch back on the desktop as well, if OS X 10.8 or
10.9 don't do it for me. I'm encountering some unexpected limitations
in OS X 10.6 and I'm currently debating if retaining PPC app support
is worth it.)

Even so, this is a /major/ bug, workaround or no workaround.

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Re: LibreOffice menu problem remains

Colin Law-4
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On 23 April 2013 18:05, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So I am now running beta 2 of Raring, I guess, and LibreOffice's menus
> still are completely inaccessible via the keyboard.

Do you mean beta of Saucy?  Does the HUD work for you?  To open a file
hit Alt then op and Enter.  I find it much easier than menus via the
keyboard.

Colin

>
> This is a really serious problem. It renders the entire suite unusable for me.
>
> Is there any official way to draw more attention to this really quite
> critical bug?
>
> --
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> Email: [hidden email] • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
> MSN: [hidden email] • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
> Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884
>
> --
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Re: LibreOffice menu problem remains

Liam Proven
On 25 September 2013 17:22, Colin Law <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Do you mean beta of Saucy?  Does the HUD work for you?  To open a file
> hit Alt then op and Enter.  I find it much easier than menus via the
> keyboard.


I don't use the HUD, at all, ever, in any app. So whether the HUD
works or not is immaterial to me.

I constantly switch between LibreOffice and MS Office on Mac, Windows
and Linux as part of my working life. I cannot just hop between
different user interfaces, and using things like Alt-T, W for a
wordcount is part of my muscle memory and has been for 20y, since Word
for Windows 6.0 in 1993.

I conced that the keyboard shortcuts don't work on the Mac either, but
then, they don't in any apps and never did (unless you enable
assistive tech for people with disabilities).

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Re: LibreOffice menu problem remains

Colin Law-4
On 25 September 2013 18:41, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 25 September 2013 17:22, Colin Law <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Do you mean beta of Saucy?  Does the HUD work for you?  To open a file
>> hit Alt then op and Enter.  I find it much easier than menus via the
>> keyboard.
>
>
> I don't use the HUD, at all, ever, in any app. So whether the HUD
> works or not is immaterial to me.

That is your decision of course.  However it does mean that your
initial statement "LibreOffice's menus still are completely
inaccessible via the keyboard" is, arguably, not strictly correct, in
the sense that the menu actions are accessible via the keyboard using
the HUD, though I agree that the top level menus are not.

I agree entirely, however, that it is not good enough that the normal
Alt key actions do not work.  Like you I am surprised that the issue
has not been addressed on a core app like LibreOffice.

Colin

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Re: LibreOffice menu problem remains

Liam Proven
On 25 September 2013 20:45, Colin Law <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> That is your decision of course.  However it does mean that your
> initial statement "LibreOffice's menus still are completely
> inaccessible via the keyboard" is, arguably, not strictly correct, in
> the sense that the menu actions are accessible via the keyboard using
> the HUD, though I agree that the top level menus are not.

OK, good point well made. I presume that commands issued via the HUD
actually trigger menu entries? As I say, I don't use it so I don't
know. E.g. can you go directly to a sub-option buried in a tab of a
dialog box?

> I agree entirely, however, that it is not good enough that the normal
> Alt key actions do not work.  Like you I am surprised that the issue
> has not been addressed on a core app like LibreOffice.

Well quite.

It's interesting to look at the progression & change in
Ubuntu/Canonical over the last few years.

Up until 2010 or so, it was widely said in the Linux world that
Canonical didn't do any real development - they just tweaked and
integrated stuff they took from Debian.

Now, it's doing more original R&D than almost anyone, with its own
desktop, its own display server, and the overlapping Ubuntu Touch /
Ubuntu Mobile / Ubuntu for Android projects.

As such, others have made the observation that it seems like the
company is over-committed and that long-standing bugs are getting
neglected.



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Re: LibreOffice menu problem remains

Colin Law-4
On 25 September 2013 21:18, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 25 September 2013 20:45, Colin Law <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> That is your decision of course.  However it does mean that your
>> initial statement "LibreOffice's menus still are completely
>> inaccessible via the keyboard" is, arguably, not strictly correct, in
>> the sense that the menu actions are accessible via the keyboard using
>> the HUD, though I agree that the top level menus are not.
>
> OK, good point well made. I presume that commands issued via the HUD
> actually trigger menu entries? As I say, I don't use it so I don't
> know. E.g. can you go directly to a sub-option buried in a tab of a
> dialog box?

Not in a dialog box, you have to bring the dialog box up first, as you
would if the Alt key actions worked.  You can get directly to submenus
however.  So in Writer if you hit Alt then type master then it shows
the two options containing the word master, ie File > New > Master
Document and File > Send > Create Master Document.  Hit Enter to
select the first one or down arrow and Enter to select the next.  It
really is rather clever, you should try it :)  Though it is not
entirely bug free I think.

Colin

>
>> I agree entirely, however, that it is not good enough that the normal
>> Alt key actions do not work.  Like you I am surprised that the issue
>> has not been addressed on a core app like LibreOffice.
>
> Well quite.
>
> It's interesting to look at the progression & change in
> Ubuntu/Canonical over the last few years.
>
> Up until 2010 or so, it was widely said in the Linux world that
> Canonical didn't do any real development - they just tweaked and
> integrated stuff they took from Debian.
>
> Now, it's doing more original R&D than almost anyone, with its own
> desktop, its own display server, and the overlapping Ubuntu Touch /
> Ubuntu Mobile / Ubuntu for Android projects.
>
> As such, others have made the observation that it seems like the
> company is over-committed and that long-standing bugs are getting
> neglected.
>
>
>
> --
> Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
> Email: [hidden email] • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
> MSN: [hidden email] • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
> Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884
>
> --
> [hidden email]
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Re: LibreOffice menu problem remains

Andy Whitcroft-3
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 04:18:08PM +0100, Liam Proven wrote:

> On 23 April 2013 18:05, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > So I am now running beta 2 of Raring, I guess, and LibreOffice's menus
> > still are completely inaccessible via the keyboard.
> >
> > This is a really serious problem. It renders the entire suite unusable for me.
> >
> > Is there any official way to draw more attention to this really quite
> > critical bug?
>
> Quick update. I think that 13.10 is now in the beta stage - is that correct?
>
> This serious bug is /still/ present, 6mth later.
>
> Mind you, it has been since 11.04, I think, so perhaps I am foolish to
> expect to be able to control Ubuntu's office suite with the keyboard
> LIKE I CAN WITH EVERY OTHER UBUNTU APPLICATION.

It is always helpful when complaining that a bug has not been addressed
or fixed to include the launchpad bug number for the issue, so that people
can review it and perhaps even bring it up with the relevant team.

-apw

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