Moving towards NetworkManager

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Moving towards NetworkManager

Josef Wolf
Hello folks,

Currently, I am configuring network setup myself via automated scripting.
This setup (for laptops) is based on wpa_supplicant and ifplugd to switch
and reconfigure networks.

I have checked network-manager about six years ago, but for some reasons it
did not fit. I don't remember the details, though..

Motivated by this thread
(https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2016-July/286270.html),
I'd like to take another try on that. After all, people claim NM has matured
since then.

So I deactivated network setup in my configuration scripts and did a fresh
install on a laptop, just to see what NM would do by default.

I have (not yet) entered any WiFi-Keys for now.

Here's what I see:

0. First of all, NM is not available on the server install CD. So I need a
   working network to install NM. Somewhat ugly this bootstrap situation. I
   decide to ignore this for now.

1. When the system is booted without ethernet-cable connected, it hangs for
   about 6 minutes. After this time this routing information is added:

  Dest            Router          Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
  0.0.0.0         0.0.0.0         0.0.0.0         U     1002   0        0 enp0s25
  169.254.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U     0      0        0 enp0s25

  If I plug the ethernet cable later, the routing table won't be updated. I
  need to manually do an ifdown/ifup cycle to get a working routing table:

  Dest            Router          Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
  0.0.0.0         192.168.1.1     0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 enp0s25
  169.254.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U     1000   0        0 enp0s25
  192.168.1.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 enp0s25

  with my previous setup, I used ifplugd to change network configurations when
  a cable is plugged. Won't NM take care of that?

2. I invoke the "manage connections" menu from the system tray and create an
   ethernet connection. I check the "all users" and "connect automatically"
   checkboxes. The config is saved in /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections.
   But unplug/plug still won't have any effect on the routing table. Ifplugd
   did a much better job regarding to "managing the network".

3. Then I go to the menu in the system tray, choose a wifi-AP and enter the
   wifi-passphrase. But the wifi won't come up.

4. I choose "Manage connections" and choose the same AP as before. I change it
   to be used by all users. But the "save" button stayes greyed out, so I cant
   save it.

5. I choose the same AP via system tray again. I am asked for the passprase
   again. Was it not saved the first time? This time a message is displayed
   that the wifi is now connected.

6. I check the routing table: both interfaces (ether and wifi) have routes. I
   unplug ether. The routing table won't be adjusted and consequently, network
   stops working because ether routes take precedence.

7. I need to manually "ifdown". After that, networks starts working.

8. I plug in ether again. I'd expect wifi to go down in favour of ether, just
   as my ifplugd setup did it. But nothing happens.

9. I reboot the system, ether disconnected. My ifplugd-based setup would fall
   back to wifi immedeately. NM waits 6 minutes again.

10. I check the routing table, and indeed, both interfaces are active. But
    this time wifi takes precedence. I switch off the wifi-router, and voilla:
    networking stops working. Unplugging/plugging ether don't help.

I'm wondering why they call it networkMANAGER?

What does this piece of software ACTUALLY manage?

What am I missing here?

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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Rashkae-2
On 16-07-26 06:09 PM, Josef Wolf wrote:

> Here's what I see:
>
> 0. First of all, NM is not available on the server install CD. So I need a
>     working network to install NM. Somewhat ugly this bootstrap situation. I
>     decide to ignore this for now.
>
> 1. When the system is booted without ethernet-cable connected, it hangs for
>     about 6 minutes. After this time this routing information is added:
>
>    Dest            Router          Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
>    0.0.0.0         0.0.0.0         0.0.0.0         U     1002   0        0 enp0s25
>    169.254.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U     0      0        0 enp0s25
>
>    If I plug the ethernet cable later, the routing table won't be updated. I
>    need to manually do an ifdown/ifup cycle to get a working routing table:
>
>    Dest            Router          Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
>    0.0.0.0         192.168.1.1     0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 enp0s25
>    169.254.0.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.0.0     U     1000   0        0 enp0s25
>    192.168.1.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 enp0s25
>
>    with my previous setup, I used ifplugd to change network configurations when
>    a cable is plugged. Won't NM take care of that?
>

It looks as though you bootrapped your network by adding your interface
to the /etc/network/interfaces file
(This might have been done for your by the server install, which is the
default behaviour, but is not meant to be used on conjection with Nework
manager.  Network manager will deliberately ignore interfaces configured
via interfaces)

Backup and edit your Interfaces file to remove everything except:

auto lo
iface lo inet loopback




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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Josef Wolf
On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 06:19:23PM -0400, Rashkae wrote:

> On 16-07-26 06:09 PM, Josef Wolf wrote:
> >0. First of all, NM is not available on the server install CD. So I need a
> >    working network to install NM. Somewhat ugly this bootstrap situation. I
> >    decide to ignore this for now.
>
> It looks as though you bootrapped your network by adding your
> interface to the /etc/network/interfaces file
> (This might have been done for your by the server install, which is
> the default behaviour, but is not meant to be used on conjection
> with Nework manager.

Yes. d-i uses the netcfg UDEB to set up networking and saves this to /e/n/i.

My goal is to have ONE installation CD which I'd use for ALL installs, whether
it is a server, a router or a laptop with desktop+wifi.

> Network manager will deliberately ignore interfaces configured via interfaces)
>
> Backup and edit your Interfaces file to remove everything except:
>
> auto lo
> iface lo inet loopback

Yes. This helps.

Thus, my current setup is like this:

1. d-i configures network and stores this configuration in order to do basic
   install.

2. On first reboot after install, my postinstall-script runs and configures
   networking in order to:
   a. run update/upgrade and pull additional packages
   b. check out the repository with my configuration scripts
   This step is necessary because since 10.04 or 12.04, d-i no longer supports
   setting up pppoe
   This configuration is done directly with ifconfig/route/whatever and is NOT.
   stored on the disk. It will vanish on the reboot. The postinstall script
   depends on the checked out configuration system to do the final network
   setup.
   At this point, the user has a chance to change the domain name (which,
   contrary to the other settings WILL be stored to disk). This is because I
   often do the install at home and carry the box to the final network only
   when it is fully installed and functional. This reduces down-time.

3. The checked out configuration system is run and will create the FINAL
   configuration. How this final configuration system looks for the specific
   host in question, is determined by:
   - the hostname
   - the domainname
   - policy/classes settings which are defined withhin this configuration
     system.
   For example, if the FQDN is ext-gw.XXX.YY, then a router is set up for
   external gatewaying. This is because of the class setting "ext-gw"
   The number (load-balancing), type (cable, dsl, ether), provider and
   credentials of those external interfaces is set by policy settings, which
   in turn are based on hostname and domainname settings.

So basically, I'm sitting in-between d-i. netcfg and network-manager and
trying to make sense out of it...

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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Josef Wolf
In reply to this post by Josef Wolf
I've just seen, netcfg-udeb seems to have a module for network-manager, but I
can't see any references to that in
https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/installation-guide/amd64/apbs04.html

In addition, The network-manager package is not contained on the
server/alternate CD.

Any ideas, to install/configure NM using netcfg's preseed?

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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Tom H-4
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 6:04 AM, Josef Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I've just seen, netcfg-udeb seems to have a module for network-manager, but I
> can't see any references to that in
> https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/installation-guide/amd64/apbs04.html
>
> In addition, The network-manager package is not contained on the
> server/alternate CD.
>
> Any ideas, to install/configure NM using netcfg's preseed?

There's no NM udeb but the netcfg udeb has an "nm-conf" executable
that can set up the NM config, I assume via this preseed setting:

Template: netcfg/target_network_config
Type: select
Choices-C: nm_config, ifupdown, loopback
Choices: Network Manager, ifupdown (/etc/network/interfaces), No
network configuration
Description: for internal use; can be preseeded
 Specifies what kind of network connection management tool should be
 configured post-installation if multiple are available. Automatic
 selection is used in this order when not specified: network-manager if
 available (on Linux only), ethernet configuration through ifupdown on wired
 installation and loopback configuration through ifupdown on wireless
 installations.

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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Josef Wolf
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 06:52:05AM -0400, Tom H wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 6:04 AM, Josef Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I've just seen, netcfg-udeb seems to have a module for network-manager, but I
> > can't see any references to that in
> > https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/installation-guide/amd64/apbs04.html
> >
> > In addition, The network-manager package is not contained on the
> > server/alternate CD.
> >
> > Any ideas, to install/configure NM using netcfg's preseed?
>
> There's no NM udeb but the netcfg udeb has an "nm-conf" executable
> that can set up the NM config, I assume via this preseed setting:
>
> Template: netcfg/target_network_config
> Type: select
> Choices-C: nm_config, ifupdown, loopback
> Choices: Network Manager, ifupdown (/etc/network/interfaces), No
> network configuration
> Description: for internal use; can be preseeded
>  Specifies what kind of network connection management tool should be
>  configured post-installation if multiple are available. Automatic
>  selection is used in this order when not specified: network-manager if
>  available (on Linux only), ethernet configuration through ifupdown on wired
>  installation and loopback configuration through ifupdown on wireless
>  installations.

I see.

But how is this supposed to work when NM is not packaged on the install CD?

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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Tom H-4
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 7:48 AM, Josef Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 06:52:05AM -0400, Tom H wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 6:04 AM, Josef Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've just seen, netcfg-udeb seems to have a module for network-manager, but I
>>> can't see any references to that in
>>> https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/installation-guide/amd64/apbs04.html
>>>
>>> In addition, The network-manager package is not contained on the
>>> server/alternate CD.
>>>
>>> Any ideas, to install/configure NM using netcfg's preseed?
>>
>> There's no NM udeb but the netcfg udeb has an "nm-conf" executable
>> that can set up the NM config, I assume via this preseed setting:
>>
>> Template: netcfg/target_network_config
>> Type: select
>> Choices-C: nm_config, ifupdown, loopback
>> Choices: Network Manager, ifupdown (/etc/network/interfaces), No
>> network configuration
>> Description: for internal use; can be preseeded
>> Specifies what kind of network connection management tool should be
>> configured post-installation if multiple are available. Automatic
>> selection is used in this order when not specified: network-manager if
>> available (on Linux only), ethernet configuration through ifupdown on wired
>> installation and loopback configuration through ifupdown on wireless
>> installations.
>
> I see.
>
> But how is this supposed to work when NM is not packaged on the install CD?

The CD uses e-n-i but the installed system's set up for NM.

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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Josef Wolf
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 08:21:03AM -0400, Tom H wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 7:48 AM, Josef Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 06:52:05AM -0400, Tom H wrote:
> >> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 6:04 AM, Josef Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:

> >> Type: select
> >> Choices-C: nm_config, ifupdown, loopback
> >> Choices: Network Manager, ifupdown (/etc/network/interfaces), No
> >> network configuration
> >> Description: for internal use; can be preseeded
> >> Specifies what kind of network connection management tool should be
> >> configured post-installation if multiple are available. Automatic
> >> selection is used in this order when not specified: network-manager if
> >> available (on Linux only), ethernet configuration through ifupdown on wired
> >> installation and loopback configuration through ifupdown on wireless
> >> installations.
> >
> > I see.
> >
> > But how is this supposed to work when NM is not packaged on the install CD?
>
> The CD uses e-n-i but the installed system's set up for NM.

Currently, I use this:

  jw@tm:/$ egrep "^d-i +netcfg" patches/*.seed
  patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/choose_interface select eth0
  patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/dhcp_failed note
  patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/dhcp_options select Configure network manually
  patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/get_hostname    seen false
  patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/get_domain      seen false
  patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/get_domain      string nonexisting.domain
  patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/wireless_wep string
  jw@tm:/$

so, I'd simply throw all this away and use only:

  d-i netcfg/target_network_config nm_config

Is this right?

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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Josef Wolf
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 03:10:25PM +0200, Josef Wolf wrote:

> Currently, I use this:
>
>   jw@tm:/$ egrep "^d-i +netcfg" patches/*.seed
>   patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/choose_interface select eth0
>   patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/dhcp_failed note
>   patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/dhcp_options select Configure network manually
>   patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/get_hostname    seen false
>   patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/get_domain      seen false
>   patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/get_domain      string nonexisting.domain
>   patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/wireless_wep string
>   jw@tm:/$
>
> so, I'd simply throw all this away and use only:
>
>   d-i netcfg/target_network_config nm_config
>
> Is this right?

Looks like

   d-i netcfg/target_network_config select nm_config

needs to be used IN ADDITION to the other settings.

And network-manager needs to be installed with late_command. Without this, the
first reboot won't have network.

Installing network-manager will pull a graphical desktop. Thats not the best
decision for a server :-()

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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Tom H-4
In reply to this post by Josef Wolf
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 9:10 AM, Josef Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 08:21:03AM -0400, Tom H wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 7:48 AM, Josef Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 06:52:05AM -0400, Tom H wrote:
>>>> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 6:04 AM, Josef Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Type: select
>>>> Choices-C: nm_config, ifupdown, loopback
>>>> Choices: Network Manager, ifupdown (/etc/network/interfaces), No
>>>> network configuration
>>>> Description: for internal use; can be preseeded
>>>> Specifies what kind of network connection management tool should be
>>>> configured post-installation if multiple are available. Automatic
>>>> selection is used in this order when not specified: network-manager if
>>>> available (on Linux only), ethernet configuration through ifupdown on wired
>>>> installation and loopback configuration through ifupdown on wireless
>>>> installations.
>>>
>>> I see.
>>>
>>> But how is this supposed to work when NM is not packaged on the install CD?
>>
>> The CD uses e-n-i but the installed system's set up for NM.
>
> Currently, I use this:
>
> jw@tm:/$ egrep "^d-i +netcfg" patches/*.seed
> patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/choose_interface select eth0
> patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/dhcp_failed note
> patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/dhcp_options select Configure network manually
> patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/get_hostname seen false
> patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/get_domain seen false
> patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/get_domain string nonexisting.domain
> patches/generic.seed:d-i netcfg/wireless_wep string
> jw@tm:/$
>
> so, I'd simply throw all this away and use only:
>
> d-i netcfg/target_network_config nm_config
>
> Is this right?

No. The setting that I emailed earlier was to set up NM configs. You
still have to supoply the configs with the above.

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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Tom H-4
In reply to this post by Josef Wolf
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 5:21 PM, Josef Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Installing network-manager will pull a graphical desktop. Thats not
> the best decision for a server :-()

It shouldn't and it hasn't in the past versions. But the deb does pull
in some graphical components (more than Debian does for example) so
I've rebuilt the deb in the past or created equivs packages to remove
GUI dependencies. I pointed this out on the ubunbu-devel-discuss@ list
a few years ago and I was told that this is how Ubuntu wanted it.

If you don;t want to do the above and want something cross-distro, you
could use systemd-networkd.

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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Oliver Grawert
hi,
Am Freitag, den 29.07.2016, 03:20 -0400 schrieb Tom H:

just because it is such a funny coincident i thought i should point out
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-July/039464.html

which tries to attack exactly the problems discussed in this thread...

;)

ciao
        oli

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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Josef Wolf
On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 11:20:41AM +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:
> just because it is such a funny coincident i thought i should point out
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2016-July/039464.html
>
> which tries to attack exactly the problems discussed in this thread...

Thanks for the pointer, Oli!

If I understand correctly, the installer would generate /etc/netplan/*.yaml
and netplan would generate whatever is needed when the system is booted.

Is this correct?

AFAICS, netplan seems to be in a VERY early stage, it doesn't even support
routing/DNS yet? Is it even functional?

Is this an official plan?

IIUC, so far we have:

- ifupdown:       Legacy. Configuation is scattered all over /etc/*
- NetworkManager: Closely tangled with desktops
- networkd:       Umm, have not checked it yet
- netplan:        An abstraction layer above the other three.

Personally, I'd very much prefer YAML above INI. INI is ill-defined and hard
to modify consistently in an automated (scripted) way. No comment on
ifupdown configuration... Please note: all this is IMHO!

Wouldn't it be a better plan to merge NM and networkd, give it a sane config
file format, and use THAT to replace ifupdown?

Given that there's probably no chance that NM and networkd would be merged,
introducing an abstraction layer seems to be a good plan B.

Somehow, I get the impression that everyone tries to roll his own
system. Smells a bit like NIH.

BTW: Some years ago, network interfaces used to be called ethXX or wlanXX or
ethXX.YY or something. Nowadays, they have really wired names. This
complicates automatic configuration a lot. Why am I forced to go through loops
to find out the names of the interfaces instead of simply using eth0/eth1/eth2?
How am I (as a human) supposed to remember those wired names if I want to
check and/or modify some settings on a network interface or want to run
tcpdump on it?

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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Oliver Grawert
hi,
On Fr, 2016-07-29 at 13:04 +0200, Josef Wolf wrote:
>
> If I understand correctly, the installer would generate
> /etc/netplan/*.yaml
> and netplan would generate whatever is needed when the system is
> booted.
>
> Is this correct?
looks more like an install time thing, i.e. a replacement for netcfg in
debian-installer, the network bit in ubiquity, the cloud-init network
configuration and snappys first boot network setup for embedded
systems. it seems to try to find a unified way for all the different
install variants currently used in ubuntu.

>
> AFAICS, netplan seems to be in a VERY early stage, it doesn't even
> support
> routing/DNS yet? Is it even functional?
>
> Is this an official plan?
not sure if pitti works on it in his spare time or on company time ...
it is an attempt to unification in the ubuntu ecosystem, if it works it
might become a an official plan :) 

>
> IIUC, so far we have:
>
> - ifupdown:       Legacy. Configuation is scattered all over /etc/*
> - NetworkManager: Closely tangled with desktops
> - networkd:       Umm, have not checked it yet
> - netplan:        An abstraction layer above the other three.
>
well, we also have a gazillion if different installers of which each
maps to one or multiple of the above backends...

> Personally, I'd very much prefer YAML above INI. INI is ill-defined
i dont see .ini mentioned anywhere, the aim is clearly to use yaml 

> Wouldn't it be a better plan to merge NM and networkd, give it a sane
> config
> file format, and use THAT to replace ifupdown?
about the former you need to convince redhat (who are upstream for
both, NM and networkd), this is nothing you could do with distro
patches :)
regarding replacing ifupdown you would have to convince debian to drop
it, but that takes time, debian is moving very slow if it comes to
essential technology changes (many packages drop scripts into
/etc/network/if-up.d and friends, and many (most) packages are synced
unmodified from debian into the ubuntu archive). just remember how long
the systemd discussions lasted before a decision was made...

>
> Given that there's probably no chance that NM and networkd would be
> merged,
> introducing an abstraction layer seems to be a good plan B.
>
> Somehow, I get the impression that everyone tries to roll his own
> system. Smells a bit like NIH.
not really, trying to fix fragmentation inside a specific ecosystem
isnt really NIH i think ... NIH would be to do your own uNetworkd or
some such to be better than upstreams networkd :)

>
> BTW: Some years ago, network interfaces used to be called ethXX or
> wlanXX or
> ethXX.YY or something. Nowadays, they have really wired names. This
> complicates automatic configuration a lot. Why am I forced to go
> through loops
> to find out the names of the interfaces instead of simply using
> eth0/eth1/eth2?
> How am I (as a human) supposed to remember those wired names if I
> want to
> check and/or modify some settings on a network interface or want to
> run
> tcpdump on it?
thats an invention of the systemd upstream people IIRC ... 
https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInt
erfaceNames/

cou can turn it off by putting net.ifnames=0 on the kernel command
line.

ciao
        oli


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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 13:50:30 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:
>cou can turn it off by putting net.ifnames=0 on the kernel command
>line.

A while back it was possible to do it by a rule file, now there's the
need to add it to the kernel command line. From the beginning I didn't
waste my time and simply migrated to the new bizarre names.

I'm using

  basename $(ls -d /sys/class/net/enp?s0)

for my scripts. If I remove or mount PCI audio cards, not at
runtime, just after the PC powered off, the number of the integrated
network device changes with the next startup.

So I for example use

  dhcpcd $(basename $(ls -d /sys/class/net/enp?s0))

this works, as long as you only have got e.g. one on-board device. For
me the ? works, but perhaps using a * is better.

If you have several devices, or you connect and disconnect USB
network devices, it's likely more tricky.

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Josef Wolf
On 29 July 2016 at 13:04, Josef Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> IIUC, so far we have:
>
> - ifupdown:       Legacy. Configuation is scattered all over /etc/*
> - NetworkManager: Closely tangled with desktops
> - networkd:       Umm, have not checked it yet
> - netplan:        An abstraction layer above the other three.


This may not be directly relevant, and I don't use it myself, but...

I track a number of non-GNOME-based distros via mailing lists, forums
etc. A common question is avoiding NetworkManager, as it's a GNOME
tool and pulls in various GNOME dependencies. (E.g. on Arch it
requires the GNOME keyring merely to be able to _enter_ a Wifi
password. Not to store it, just to enter it at all!)

The next-most-popular tool and replacement for NM seems to be WICD:

http://wicd.sourceforge.net/


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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Oliver Grawert
In reply to this post by Ralf Mardorf-2
hi,
On Fr, 2016-07-29 at 14:08 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 13:50:30 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:
> >
> > cou can turn it off by putting net.ifnames=0 on the kernel command
> > line.
>
> A while back it was possible to do it by a rule file, now there's the
> need to add it to the kernel command line. 

both should still be fully supported (actually all three of the ways
described on the page i linked should)

ciao
        oli
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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Ralf Mardorf-2
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 14:13:19 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:

>On 29 July 2016 at 13:04, Josef Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> IIUC, so far we have:
>>
>> - ifupdown:       Legacy. Configuation is scattered all over /etc/*
>> - NetworkManager: Closely tangled with desktops
>> - networkd:       Umm, have not checked it yet
>> - netplan:        An abstraction layer above the other three.  
>
>
>This may not be directly relevant, and I don't use it myself, but...
>
>I track a number of non-GNOME-based distros via mailing lists, forums
>etc. A common question is avoiding NetworkManager, as it's a GNOME
>tool and pulls in various GNOME dependencies. (E.g. on Arch it
>requires the GNOME keyring merely to be able to _enter_ a Wifi
>password. Not to store it, just to enter it at all!)
>
>The next-most-popular tool and replacement for NM seems to be WICD:
>
>http://wicd.sourceforge.net/

I already used a script for pppoe, ip link set enp[...]s0 up. I
wouldn't care about NM dependencies, I suspect it's better than wicd.
I guess Arch now comes with netctl, but before this Arch provided
another tool, I guess it was netcfg. IMO it's still the easiest and most
portable way to write a script. If it should be too complicated, then
NM likely is the best choice.

2 Cents,
Ralf


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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Josef Wolf
In reply to this post by Oliver Grawert
On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 01:50:30PM +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:
> looks more like an install time thing, i.e. a replacement for netcfg in
> debian-installer, the network bit in ubiquity, the cloud-init network
> configuration and snappys first boot network setup for embedded
> systems. it seems to try to find a unified way for all the different
> install variants currently used in ubuntu.

So after install, automated configuration systems will still have to cope with
different ways to set up networking?

> > Personally, I'd very much prefer YAML above INI. INI is ill-defined
> i dont see .ini mentioned anywhere, the aim is clearly to use yaml

networkd uses INI. What I tried to say was: from my view-point of configuring
by unattended scripts, I'd rather configure a YAML based setup than a INI
based one. So, from this point of view, I'd prefer netplan over networkd.

> > Wouldn't it be a better plan to merge NM and networkd, give it a sane
> > config file format, and use THAT to replace ifupdown?
> about the former you need to convince redhat (who are upstream for
> both, NM and networkd), this is nothing you could do with distro
> patches :)

I know. That's why I wrote "there's probably no chance...".

> > Somehow, I get the impression that everyone tries to roll his own
> > system. Smells a bit like NIH.
> not really, trying to fix fragmentation inside a specific ecosystem
> isnt really NIH i think ... NIH would be to do your own uNetworkd or
> some such to be better than upstreams networkd :)

When writing this, I had networkd and NM in mind. I was not after netplan.

> > BTW: Some years ago, network interfaces used to be called ethXX or
> > wlanXX or ethXX.YY or something.
> thats an invention of the systemd upstream people IIRC ...
> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/

Looks like a fix of a non-existing problem, IMHO.

For years, udev makes the names stable based on the MAC. You'd get
unpredictable names only for newly plugged devices on the first boot with this
new device.

If devices happen to differ from what you expected on the first boot after you
installed, just swap the cables. Big deal.

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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Josef Wolf
In reply to this post by Ralf Mardorf-2
On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 02:08:32PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
[ ... ]
> I'm using
>   basename $(ls -d /sys/class/net/enp?s0)
[ ... ]
>   dhcpcd $(basename $(ls -d /sys/class/net/enp?s0))
>
> this works, as long as you only have got e.g. one on-board device.

If there is only one device, device name would not change in the old system
either.

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