Moving towards NetworkManager

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Re: interface renaming (was: Re: Moving towards NetworkManager)

Tom H-4
On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Josef Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 03:11:56PM +0100, Colin Law wrote:
>> On 30 July 2016 at 14:11, Josef Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> What does it contradict?
>>
>> For example "it might very well happen that "eth0" on one boot ends
>> up being "eth1" on the next".
>
> Have you ever actually SEEN that? Myself not...

https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2016-May/036697.html

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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Tom H-4
On 30 July 2016 at 18:01, Tom H <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'll modify your statement slightly:
>
> A very good but disturbing idea.
>
> (Disturbing because we're so used to the concept of "/bin" "/lib"
> "/sbin" containing what's needed to bring up a minimal system with
> just "/" if other filesystems happen to split out. That function's now
> fulfilled by the initramfs' "/".)

Do you think many people are still actually doing that?

Most of the ultra-minimal distros are dead now, e.g.

Damn Small Linux, http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ -- last updated 2008

Puppy Linux -- last updated April 2015:
http://barryk.org/news/?viewDetailed=00187

LEAF Project -- http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ -- last updates on the
homepage 2012

The only one I know that's alive and was updated this year is Tiny
Core Linux: http://tinycorelinux.net/

I just had a quick look. The smallest new hard disks I can find for
sale now are 500GB. That's notebook and desktop sizes.

OK, true, SSDs are still available new at 120GB. (The Mac mini I'm
typing on boots off one! However, I did buy it at the start of 2014
and it was the cheapest I could get then.)

So, with a small Linux today being a desktop distro like Debian or
Slackware, that only just fits on a CD and which takes a gigabyte or
so, which is 0.2% of the smallest available hard disk, do you really
think there is still any need for a minimal system such as your
describe?


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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Ralf Mardorf-2
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 15:04:17 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:

>On 29 July 2016 at 22:04, Josef Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> You're probably right. I think, you need some grade of madness to
>> survive in this world.  
>
>There is truth in that! :-)
>
>> I was not aware about sublte differences in apt-gt/aptitude.  
>
>I don't think this counts as "subtle"!
>
>>  A long time ago I
>> asked on this list whether aptitude is a proper tool and received
>> positive answers.  
>
>Really? That is surprising. Debian recommends ``aptitude'' but Ubuntu
>never did and now Ubuntu offers the ``apt'' command instead. I have
>switched to this. It behaves just like apt-get/apt-cache etc., but the
>commands are shorter and the progress indication is much better.
>
>E.g.
>
>sudo apt update ; sudo apt dist-upgrade -y
>
>... instead of:
>
>sudo apt-get update ; sudo apt-get dist-upgrade -y
>
>Saves 8 characters, 2 of them punctuation marks. As Neal Stephenson
>said:


OTOH you could type

sudo apt-g TAB upd TAB && sudo apt-g TAB di TAB

I prefer && over ; because if the update fails, it doesn't continue
with a perhaps partial dist-upgrade and I removed the -y since IMO it's
wiser to first take a look at what should be done.

I usually run

apt-get update && apt-file update && auto-apt updatedb && auto-apt update-local && apt-get dist-upgrade && apt-get autoremove

the && might not make really sense everywhere, perhaps I should edit
this. FWIW usually I'm not typing it, I use the cursor up key ;), so I
might need to push 4 or 5 times the same key. Note, there's no
sudo used ;), instead of typing sudo several times I use su or sudo -i,
sudo -s would work, too.

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: interface renaming (was: Re: Moving towards NetworkManager)

Ralf Mardorf-2
In reply to this post by Karl Auer
On Sun, 31 Jul 2016 00:08:37 +1000, Karl Auer wrote:
>   kauer@kt:~$ ifconfig | grep encap | cut -d\  -f1
>   eth0
>   lo
>   wlan0

Nice, with

  ifconfig|cut -d: -f1|head -1

I could replace

  basename $(ls -d /sys/class/net/enp?s0)

if I should need it again for a script.

[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ ifconfig|cut -d: -f1|head -1
enp3s0
[rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ basename $(ls -d /sys/class/net/enp?s0)
enp3s0


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Re: interface renaming (was: Re: Moving towards NetworkManager)

Josef Wolf
In reply to this post by Tom H-4
On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 11:57:59AM -0400, Tom H wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 8:03 AM, Josef Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > The question is: what EXACTLY does "predictable interface name" mean?
>
> It means that you can, for the same kernel, replace a NIC with
> another, and have them both have the same name.

What happens when you replace the motherboard by a different one?

> The old way was OK if you had a couple of NICs, but once you had half
> a dozen NICs on a box, ...

What's the problem with eth0 .. eth5 ?

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Re: interface renaming (was: Re: Moving towards NetworkManager)

Josef Wolf
In reply to this post by Tom H-4
On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 12:10:29PM -0400, Tom H wrote:

> On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Josef Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 03:11:56PM +0100, Colin Law wrote:
> >> On 30 July 2016 at 14:11, Josef Wolf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> What does it contradict?
> >>
> >> For example "it might very well happen that "eth0" on one boot ends
> >> up being "eth1" on the next".
> >
> > Have you ever actually SEEN that? Myself not...
>
> https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2016-May/036697.html

Tom, isn't this about the "legacy" mode of the NEW scheme? IMHO, this doesn't
really count as an evidence of the broken-ness the old system.

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Re: interface renaming (was: Re: Moving towards NetworkManager)

Josef Wolf
In reply to this post by Karl Auer
On Sun, Jul 31, 2016 at 12:08:37AM +1000, Karl Auer wrote:

> Here are my interfaces on 16.04:
>
>    kauer@kt:~$ ifconfig | grep encap | cut -d\  -f1
>    eth0
>    lo
>    wlan0
>
> And this is all that was needed:
>
>    kauer@kt:/etc/systemd/network$ cat 10-wlan0.link 
>    [Match]
>    MACAddress=xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx
>
>    [Link]
>    Name=wlan0
>
>    kauer@kt:/etc/systemd/network$ cat 11-eth0.link 
>    [Match]
>    MACAddress=yy:yy:yy:yy:yy:yy
>
>    [Link]
>    Name=eth0

How do I convince d-i and netcfg to do it this way?

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Re: interface renaming (was: Re: Moving towards NetworkManager)

Josef Wolf
In reply to this post by Tom H-4
On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 11:57:59AM -0400, Tom H wrote:

> The old way was OK if you had a couple of NICs, but once you had half
> a dozen NICs on a box, ...

In my configuration system, I have a configuration setting that looks like
this (reduced to the contents relevant in this thread):

    &set_conf (provider =>
               &class_map ({
                   "site1.domain.de" => {
                       "alice1" => {
                           type  => "pppoe", ifname => "ppp0", phys_if=>"eth1",
                           ppp_user => '[hidden email]',
                           dyndns => {Host=>'site1.domain.de',Iface=>'ppp0'},
                       },
                       "TCOM2" => {
                           type    => "pppoe", ifname  => "ppp1", phys_if => "eth2",
                           ppp_user => '[hidden email]',
                           dyndns => {Host=>'site1.domain',Iface=>'ppp1'},
                       },
                   },
                   "site2.domain.de" => {
                       "alice1" => {
                           type    => "pppoe", ifname  => "ppp0", phys_if => "eth1",
                           ppp_user => '[hidden email]',
                           dyndns => {Host=>'site2domain.de',Iface=>'ppp0'}
                       },
                       "KDG" => {
                           type    => "ether", ifname  => "eth2",
                       }
                   },
    }));

This defines for every site, which interface is to be used to connect to
different providers via different methods (pppoe or cable).

This setting is about 10 years old. Defined and committed to subversion ONCE,
changed only when an additional site and/or provider is added. When the router
is installed, it picks its snippet from this configuration setting (which it
knows by its domain-name) and auto-configures itself according this
definition.

That's pretty convenient: just install from the customized server-CD, and the
postinstall-script will check out the configurations system from subversion
and configures itself. It feels like magic.

So with this new, shiny naming scheme: how would I know in ADVANCE how the
interface to provider Telekom will be named on the mainboard that will be
installed on that site? Will it be the same name when the mainboard will be
replaced five years later with a completely different mainboard?

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Re: Moving towards NetworkManager

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Ralf Mardorf-2
On 30 July 2016 at 19:38, Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]> wrote:
> OTOH you could type
>
> sudo apt-g TAB upd TAB && sudo apt-g TAB di TAB

I didn't know it could autocomplete command switches as well. That's
worth knowing. Thank you!

But that would not get me the improved progress reports. I like those.

> I prefer && over ; because if the update fails, it doesn't continue
> with a perhaps partial dist-upgrade

I have found that, overall, ``;'' saves time. If there's no internet
connection -- I use a powerline bridge and it's flakey -- then it
won't update anything.

> and I removed the -y since IMO it's
> wiser to first take a look at what should be done.

Fair enough, but for dist-upgrade, I'm happy to just let it roll,
based on my experience with Ubuntu, which I find more reliable than
Debian, for example.

> I usually run
>
> apt-get update && apt-file update && auto-apt updatedb && auto-apt update-local && apt-get dist-upgrade && apt-get autoremove

I had to Google some of those. I don't use any local caching over and
above what ``apt'' does on its own.

> FWIW usually I'm not typing it, I use the cursor up key ;), so I
> might need to push 4 or 5 times the same key.

True!

> Note, there's no
> sudo used ;), instead of typing sudo several times I use su or sudo -i,
> sudo -s would work, too.

Yes, me too.

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