One doubt about a place for an install party

[Costales]

Hi! I'm the coordinator of Ubuntu-ast.

We're working for a presentation & install party the April 30th of
Ubuntu 11.04, and I'd like to ask you about the place: FNAC
http://fnac.com. It's a big store in Europe, they sell books, music,
computers, cameras...

FNAC likes our event, but, is this "ethical/good" for us (as LoCo)?
Are there any rules about this?

Why am I asking this?
Because FNAC does not sell/support Ubuntu computers. On the other
hand, the event could spread the Ubuntu message to a lot of people and
it will be a big impact in press and media.

Best regards and thanks in advance! :)

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[Fabián Rodríguez]

On 01/27/2011 12:28 PM, Costales wrote:

> Hi! I'm the coordinator of Ubuntu-ast.
>
> We're working for a presentation & install party the April 30th of
> Ubuntu 11.04, and I'd like to ask you about the place: FNAC
> http://fnac.com. It's a big store in Europe, they sell books, music,
> computers, cameras...
>
> FNAC likes our event, but, is this "ethical/good" for us (as LoCo)?
> Are there any rules about this?
>
> Why am I asking this?
> Because FNAC does not sell/support Ubuntu computers. On the other
> hand, the event could spread the Ubuntu message to a lot of people and
> it will be a big impact in press and media.
>
> Best regards and thanks in advance! :)
>

I'd encourage you to organize events in such places :) That's where you
will get the most questions and curiosity will always spark
conversations that ultimately only help spread the word about Ubuntu but
also Free Software in general.

The mere fact they're open to host a release party shows their interest
and who knows, a longer term collaboration may follow. I don't see
anything unethical there, remember free software is there for anyone to
use and learn about. Make sure you're ready to explain what Wubi is as
you may end up using it that day on those Windows machines ;)

Go for it!

Cheers,

Fabian

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[Marcelo Gutierrez]

2011/1/27 Fabián Rodríguez <[hidden email]>

On 01/27/2011 12:28 PM, Costales wrote:
> Hi! I'm the coordinator of Ubuntu-ast.
>
> We're working for a presentation & install party the April 30th of
> Ubuntu 11.04, and I'd like to ask you about the place: FNAC
> http://fnac.com. It's a big store in Europe, they sell books, music,
> computers, cameras...
>
> FNAC likes our event, but, is this "ethical/good" for us (as LoCo)?
> Are there any rules about this?
>
> Why am I asking this?
> Because FNAC does not sell/support Ubuntu computers. On the other
> hand, the event could spread the Ubuntu message to a lot of people and
> it will be a big impact in press and media.
>
> Best regards and thanks in advance! :)
>

I'd encourage you to organize events in such places :) That's where you
will get the most questions and curiosity will always spark
conversations that ultimately only help spread the word about Ubuntu but
also Free Software in general.

The mere fact they're open to host a release party shows their interest
and who knows, a longer term collaboration may follow. I don't see
anything unethical there, remember free software is there for anyone to
use and learn about. Make sure you're ready to explain what Wubi is as
you may end up using it that day on those Windows machines ;)

Hello, you can also try the old dual boot technique

:)

Go for it!

Cheers,

Fabian

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[Barry Drake-3]

On Thu, 2011-01-27 at 18:28 +0100, Costales wrote:
> We're working for a presentation & install party the April 30th of
> Ubuntu 11.04, and I'd like to ask you about the place: FNAC
> http://fnac.com. It's a big store in Europe, they sell books, music,
> computers, cameras...

Just taken a look at their site.  Their prices are not bad at all.  I'm
sure they wouldn't be inviting you unless they wanted to gain some
knowledge about Ubuntu.  Go for it!

Regards, Barry Drake.
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[Fabián Rodríguez]

On 01/27/2011 02:15 PM, Marcelo Gutierrez wrote:

2011/1/27 Fabián Rodríguez <[hidden email]>

On 01/27/2011 12:28 PM, Costales wrote:

[...]

The mere fact they're open to host a release party shows their interest
and who knows, a longer term collaboration may follow. I don't see
anything unethical there, remember free software is there for anyone to
use and learn about. Make sure you're ready to explain what Wubi is as
you may end up using it that day on those Windows machines ;)

Hello, you can also try the old dual boot technique

:)

I would strongly advise against that. Most new machines use all 4 primary partitions, and rolling back such an install if someone changes their mind is problematic. Unless you know your way around GRUB and / or you have the original DVD, I would never install Ubuntu as a dual-boot on a new machine for a new user.

In fact I've found it's easier to convert a Windows install to a virtual machine, then wipe a system and install Ubuntu bare-metal, then use VirtualBox (from Oracle) to get back 100% Windows functionality. That's more than the typical 5-minute pitch though :D

Cheers,

Fabian

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[Marcelo Gutierrez]

2011/1/27 Fabián Rodríguez <[hidden email]>

On 01/27/2011 02:15 PM, Marcelo Gutierrez wrote:

2011/1/27 Fabián Rodríguez <[hidden email]>

On 01/27/2011 12:28 PM, Costales wrote:

[...]

The mere fact they're open to host a release party shows their interest
and who knows, a longer term collaboration may follow. I don't see
anything unethical there, remember free software is there for anyone to
use and learn about. Make sure you're ready to explain what Wubi is as
you may end up using it that day on those Windows machines ;)

Hello, you can also try the old dual boot technique

:)

I would strongly advise against that. Most new machines use all 4 primary partitions, and rolling back such an install if someone changes their mind is problematic.

Why would you roll back an installation? and why would someone change his mind in the middle of an install party?
 

Unless you know your way around GRUB and / or you have the original DVD, I would never install Ubuntu as a dual-boot on a new machine for a new user.
 

The person who is installing must have some experience installing Ubuntu, of course you dont allways know everything but when installing we use our Ubuntu Gurus :)
 

In fact I've found it's easier to convert a Windows install to a virtual machine, then wipe a system and install Ubuntu bare-metal, then use VirtualBox (from Oracle) to get back 100% Windows functionality. That's more than the typical 5-minute pitch though :D

 
In an install party we never install Windows at all, that is why we use dual boot if a person wishes to keep their Windows, we encourage people to use Ubuntu when they want to so the change is not that radical and hope that they forget about the W
 

Cheers,

Regards

Fabian

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[Jan Claeys-3]

Marcelo Gutierrez schreef op do 27-01-2011 om 17:12 [-0600]:
> Why would you roll back an installation? and why would someone change
> his mind in the middle of an install party?

Most laptops/desktops don't come with a Windows install disc anymore, so
if you want to be able to restore a broken Windows install, the only way
to do that is the "restore original install" that you get from a
boot/BIOS menu or from the rescue-DVD that you burn using that tool.

The problem is: that restore tool takes over the whole disk for Windows
again, so bye bye Ubuntu when you use it.


The other problem Fabián refers to is that in most cases the restore
tool partitions + Windows partitions (2 of each) are all primary
partitions, so there is no simple way to add extra partitions on the
disk (you can't add extra partitions after resizing the existing ones).


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[Vu Do Quynh]

Hi,

Le 28/01/2011 06:39, Jan Claeys a écrit :
>
> The other problem Fabián refers to is that in most cases the restore
> tool partitions + Windows partitions (2 of each) are all primary
> partitions, so there is no simple way to add extra partitions on the
> disk (you can't add extra partitions after resizing the existing ones).
>

This is effectively a problem that I met when installing Ubuntu on an
Asus EeePC 1001HA. All 4 primary partitions were used by the
pre-installed Windows 7 Starter : one drive C:, one drive D: ; one
partition holding system tools and one hidden partition that contained
the image for restoring the system.

Fortunately, the numbering of the primary partitions and of their
content was such that I could get rid of one to install an extended
partition in its place. For doing that I used a live CD and partimage to
backup the hidden partition, then erasing it with Gparted before
creating an extended partition after resizing the D: drive partition (or
deleting it, I don't remember exactly).

Now I have a dual boot system on that netbook but it's not as easy as it
was before and necessitates a lot more of handling that new (Linux)
users, unless already very comfortable with partitioning schemes under
Windows, would barely be able to do.

My wife recently purchased an HP netbook in the USA and when she came
back to Vietnam, I observed the same problem of 4 primary partitions
being already used. So I postponed the installation of Ubuntu of her
netbook as, anyway, she is using at home an Ubuntu desktop, and until I
have some free time to bend over it.

In such cases, at install parties, depending on the existing
partitioning schemes, using the Wubi installer might be the best
solution for Windows users willing to get a quick taste of Ubuntu.

Regards

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AUF (Tổ chức hợp tác ĐH Pháp ngữ)
Campus numérique francophone (CNF) de Hanoi
Nhà D, ngõ 42 Tạ Quang Bửu
Tél.: [phone] ; Fax: [phone]
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[Fabián Rodríguez]

[...]

I would strongly advise against that. Most new machines use all 4 primary partitions, and rolling back such an install if someone changes their mind is problematic.

Why would you roll back an installation? and why would someone change his mind in the middle of an install party?

I have no clue. It's happened to me and I've since decided I'll never do something that will put me in a situation where I have to spend 2+ hours to restore a system to its original/previous condition.

Bare metal is much easier. But if someone comes to an install party wanting to dual-boot, I'll be very convincing not to do so, and either go the Wubi way or the VM way.

When GRUB explodes, you will witness instant changes of mind and "put it back as it was before" requests.

 

Unless you know your way around GRUB and / or you have the original DVD, I would never install Ubuntu as a dual-boot on a new machine for a new user.
 

The person who is installing must have some experience installing Ubuntu, of course you dont allways know everything but when installing we use our Ubuntu Gurus :)

I don't know many Gurus that want to spend the entire install fest with ONE problem :) I know my stuff but I prefer to do baby steps - or bare metal steps :D

I am not going to try to convince anyone but after 4 years doing this (Ubuntu support) full time at Canonical, I'll stick with safer methods.

 

In fact I've found it's easier to convert a Windows install to a virtual machine, then wipe a system and install Ubuntu bare-metal, then use VirtualBox (from Oracle) to get back 100% Windows functionality. That's more than the typical 5-minute pitch though :D

 
In an install party we never install Windows at all, that is why we use dual boot if a person wishes to keep their Windows, we encourage people to use Ubuntu when they want to so the change is not that radical and hope that they forget about the W

I didn't say I installed Windows. I explained how *I* preferred to preserve it (making a VM, going bare metal, etc). Dual booting is really the worse case scenario IMO for any advocacy. I'll just cite this one bug (unfixed since 9.10, priority high, in progress):

grub fails after running Windows
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/441941?comments=all



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[Marcelo Gutierrez]

2011/1/27 Vu Do Quynh <[hidden email]>

Hi,

Le 28/01/2011 06:39, Jan Claeys a écrit :

The other problem Fabián refers to is that in most cases the restore
tool partitions + Windows partitions (2 of each) are all primary
partitions, so there is no simple way to add extra partitions on the
disk (you can't add extra partitions after resizing the existing ones).

This is effectively a problem that I met when installing Ubuntu on an Asus EeePC 1001HA. All 4 primary partitions were used by the pre-installed Windows 7 Starter : one drive C:, one drive D: ; one partition holding system tools and one hidden partition that contained the image for restoring the system.

Fortunately, the numbering of the primary partitions and of their content was such that I could get rid of one to install an extended partition in its place. For doing that I used a live CD and partimage to backup the hidden partition, then erasing it with Gparted before creating an extended partition after resizing the D: drive partition (or deleting it, I don't remember exactly).

Now I have a dual boot system on that netbook but it's not as easy as it was before and necessitates a lot more of handling that new (Linux) users, unless already very comfortable with partitioning schemes under Windows, would barely be able to do.

My wife recently purchased an HP netbook in the USA and when she came back to Vietnam, I observed the same problem of 4 primary partitions being already used. So I postponed the installation of Ubuntu of her netbook as, anyway, she is using at home an Ubuntu desktop, and until I have some free time to bend over it.

In such cases, at install parties, depending on the existing partitioning schemes, using the Wubi installer might be the best solution for Windows users willing to get a quick taste of Ubuntu.

Regards

Marveluos explanation, thanks for your time Vo Du

Regards!

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AUF (Tổ chức hợp tác ĐH Pháp ngữ)
Campus numérique francophone (CNF) de Hanoi
Nhà D, ngõ 42 Tạ Quang Bửu
Tél.: [phone] ; Fax: [phone]
http://www.vn.refer.org/vietnam/


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[Marcelo Gutierrez]

2011/1/27 Fabián Rodríguez <[hidden email]>

[...]

I would strongly advise against that. Most new machines use all 4 primary partitions, and rolling back such an install if someone changes their mind is problematic.

Why would you roll back an installation? and why would someone change his mind in the middle of an install party?

I have no clue. It's happened to me and I've since decided I'll never do something that will put me in a situation where I have to spend 2+ hours to restore a system to its original/previous condition.

Bare metal is much easier. But if someone comes to an install party wanting to dual-boot, I'll be very convincing not to do so, and either go the Wubi way or the VM way.

When GRUB explodes, you will witness instant changes of mind and "put it back as it was before" requests.

 

Unless you know your way around GRUB and / or you have the original DVD, I would never install Ubuntu as a dual-boot on a new machine for a new user.
 

The person who is installing must have some experience installing Ubuntu, of course you dont allways know everything but when installing we use our Ubuntu Gurus :)

I don't know many Gurus that want to spend the entire install fest with ONE problem :) I know my stuff but I prefer to do baby steps - or bare metal steps :D

I am not going to try to convince anyone but after 4 years doing this (Ubuntu support) full time at Canonical, I'll stick with safer methods.

 

In fact I've found it's easier to convert a Windows install to a virtual machine, then wipe a system and install Ubuntu bare-metal, then use VirtualBox (from Oracle) to get back 100% Windows functionality. That's more than the typical 5-minute pitch though :D

 
In an install party we never install Windows at all, that is why we use dual boot if a person wishes to keep their Windows, we encourage people to use Ubuntu when they want to so the change is not that radical and hope that they forget about the W

I didn't say I installed Windows. I explained how *I* preferred to preserve it (making a VM, going bare metal, etc). Dual booting is really the worse case scenario IMO for any advocacy. I'll just cite this one bug (unfixed since 9.10, priority high, in progress):

grub fails after running Windows
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/441941?comments=all

Thaks you for your time Magic Fab :)

Hopefully we will have this case in mind

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[J Mark Cox-2]

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Costales <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi! I'm the coordinator of Ubuntu-ast.
>
> We're working for a presentation & install party the April 30th of
> Ubuntu 11.04, and I'd like to ask you about the place: FNAC
> http://fnac.com. It's a big store in Europe, they sell books, music,
> computers, cameras...
>
> FNAC likes our event, but, is this "ethical/good" for us (as LoCo)?
> Are there any rules about this?
>
> Why am I asking this?
> Because FNAC does not sell/support Ubuntu computers. On the other
> hand, the event could spread the Ubuntu message to a lot of people and
> it will be a big impact in press and media.
>
> Best regards and thanks in advance! :)
>

It looks like a great location googling from the states. Especially if
they have basic parts to sell: like hard drives, etc. Win, win is
likely for both parties. My LUG (linux users group) used to do
installfests; we always included a disclaimer pdf file for attendees
to sign before we touched their machines.

My LUG hasn't done one since '03! Good Luck and have a lot of fun.
Poll other GNU/Linux sources, in '03 I had a very good response from
SuSE. Ask, any and all, if they say no they say no. Cross post. Get a
disclaimer form made up.

-mark

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[Costales]

Thanks very much to all of you! :)


On Fri, 2011-01-28 at 15:44 -0500, markthecarp wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Costales <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi! I'm the coordinator of Ubuntu-ast.
> >
> > We're working for a presentation & install party the April 30th of
> > Ubuntu 11.04, and I'd like to ask you about the place: FNAC
> > http://fnac.com. It's a big store in Europe, they sell books, music,
> > computers, cameras...
> >
> > FNAC likes our event, but, is this "ethical/good" for us (as LoCo)?
> > Are there any rules about this?
> >
> > Why am I asking this?
> > Because FNAC does not sell/support Ubuntu computers. On the other
> > hand, the event could spread the Ubuntu message to a lot of people and
> > it will be a big impact in press and media.
> >
> > Best regards and thanks in advance! :)
> >
>
> It looks like a great location googling from the states. Especially if
> they have basic parts to sell: like hard drives, etc. Win, win is
> likely for both parties. My LUG (linux users group) used to do
> installfests; we always included a disclaimer pdf file for attendees
> to sign before we touched their machines.
>
> My LUG hasn't done one since '03! Good Luck and have a lot of fun.
> Poll other GNU/Linux sources, in '03 I had a very good response from
> SuSE. Ask, any and all, if they say no they say no. Cross post. Get a
> disclaimer form made up.
>
> -mark
>
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