Open formats in UK gov?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
9 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Open formats in UK gov?

andres
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Open formats in UK gov?

Pete Smout-2

On 29/01/14 21:00, Andres wrote:
I guess this is not news for some of you but thought I'd mention it. Baby steps it seems:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/29/uk-government-plans-switch-to-open-source-from-microsoft-office-suite




Hi all,

As a UK taxpayer, can I just say about ****ing time to!!

Pete S

--
[hidden email]
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Open formats in UK gov?

andres


Pete Smout <[hidden email]> escribió:

>
>On 29/01/14 21:00, Andres wrote:
>> I guess this is not news for some of you but thought I'd mention it.
>Baby steps it seems:
>>
>>
>http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/29/uk-government-plans-switch-to-open-source-from-microsoft-office-suite
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Hi all,
>
>As a UK taxpayer, can I just say about ****ing time to!!
>
>Pete S
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------

Same here:
More links
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/video/2013/jun/13/geeks-opened-up-government-video



--
Enviado desde mi teléfono con K-9 Mail.

--
[hidden email]
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Open formats in UK gov?

John Oliver
Yes, I saw something about this on the BBC News android application
around 30 minutes ago. IT does look interesting. I think it's something
that's been postulated for some time, mind you. With the advent of the
Government Digital Service (https://gds.blog.gov.uk/) this sort of stuff
has been coming on for a while.

I'm sure you'll agree that gov.uk is a far easier to use site than the
previous DirectGov, and on top of that, it is (mostly) released under
the open government license
(http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/2/)

The BBC article I mentioned is at
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25950004 - the subject of the
article is actually about wasting resources on unnecessary website, but
ODF gets a mention at the bottom.

If anyone is interested, the Cabinet Office has a website devoted to
selecting open standards for use across UK Government IT -
http://standards.data.gov.uk/. Incidentally, users can submit
suggestions for standards of a particular type.


On 29/01/14 21:18, Andres wrote:

>
> Pete Smout <[hidden email]> escribió:
>> On 29/01/14 21:00, Andres wrote:
>>> I guess this is not news for some of you but thought I'd mention it.
>> Baby steps it seems:
>>>
>> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/29/uk-government-plans-switch-to-open-source-from-microsoft-office-suite
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> As a UK taxpayer, can I just say about ****ing time to!!
>>
>> Pete S
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Same here:
> More links
> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/video/2013/jun/13/geeks-opened-up-government-video
>
>
>


--
[hidden email]
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Open formats in UK gov?

Nigel Verity
In reply to this post by andres
I think that standardising on open formats is a significant step but it is a long, long way from seeing the likes of LibreOffice running on the typical civil servant's desktop. Without exception, the big UK government FM contracts for IT provision and support are all let to companies with a huge vested interest in maintaining their relationship with Microsoft. If all that's being opened up is the use of ODF, Microsoft will point out that they support ODF, though their implementation is far from perfect, but that's no different from LibreOffice's implementation of the DOCX format.

In schools and elsewhere people are not taught "word processing". They are taught explicitly how to use MS Word. Likewise with "spreadsheets" and Excel. Although for most people the transition to LibreOffice would be fairly trivial, the civil service would insist that everyone is given conversion training. Microsoft could reasonably point to a high cost of migration which, combined with the cost of Office pared back to cost price or less, would see the company able to maintain its stranglehold on government IT procurement. Civil servants can already buy personal copies of Office Pro for well under £20. Think of the price the government would get when ordering half a million copies.

Nige

--
[hidden email]
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Open formats in UK gov?

andres


On 29 de enero de 2014 23:24:16 GMT, Nigel Verity <[hidden email]> wrote:

>I think that standardising on open formats is a significant step but it
>is a long, long way from seeing the likes of LibreOffice running on the
>typical civil servant's desktop. Without exception, the big UK
>government FM contracts for IT provision and support are all let to
>companies with a huge vested interest in maintaining their relationship
>with Microsoft. If all that's being opened up is the use of ODF,
>Microsoft will point out that they support ODF, though their
>implementation is far from perfect, but that's no different from
>LibreOffice's implementation of the DOCX format.
>
>In schools and elsewhere people are not taught "word processing". They
>are taught explicitly how to use MS Word. Likewise with "spreadsheets"
>and Excel. Although for most people the transition to LibreOffice would
>be fairly trivial, the civil service would insist that everyone is
>given conversion training. Microsoft could reasonably point to a high
>cost of migration which, combined with the cost of Office pared back to
>cost price or less, would see the company able to maintain its
>stranglehold on government IT procurement. Civil servants can already
>buy personal copies of Office Pro for well under £20. Think of the
>price the government would get when ordering half a million copies.
>
>Nige    
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------

Didn't the city of Munich start with this some years ago? Now they seem to be almost completely on the other side.  

--
Enviado desde mi teléfono con K-9 Mail.

--
[hidden email]
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Open formats in UK gov?

Alan Lord (News)
In reply to this post by andres
Interesting Proposal from the Cabinet Office:

http://standards.data.gov.uk/proposal/sharing-collaborating-government-documents

Standards based documents *only*. txt, csv, html4/5, ODF.

:-D

Al


On 29/01/14 21:00, Andres wrote:

> I guess this is not news for some of you but thought I'd mention it.
> Baby steps it seems:
>
> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/29/uk-government-plans-switch-to-open-source-from-microsoft-office-suite
>
>
> --
> Enviado desde mi teléfono con K-9 Mail.
>
>



--
[hidden email]
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Open formats in UK gov?

Nigel Verity
In reply to this post by andres
The example of the City of Munich is certainly encouraging but the difference in scale between the Munich administration and the UK government is many orders of magnitude.

My own view is that there will never be a single strategic decision to move UK government IT infrastructure from Microsoft technololgies to FLOSS alternatives, but that doesn't mean the goal will never be achieved.

Hoping for Windows to be replaced by Linux on the basis of simple substitution is possibly an out-dated aspiration. Although it's a very long process, and often poorly implemented, an increasing amount of government IT is moving from the desktop to the intranet. At some point, this should result in users being able to complete all their tasks using Chromebook-type devices, where the device OS is of little strategic importance. Likewise, the OS running on the server will become less important. There could well come a time when government IT managers are in a position to choose the right OS for the job.

Nige


> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Open formats in UK gov?

> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 06:32:10 +0000
> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>
>
>
> On 29 de enero de 2014 23:24:16 GMT, Nigel Verity <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >I think that standardising on open formats is a significant step but it
> >is a long, long way from seeing the likes of LibreOffice running on the
> >typical civil servant's desktop. Without exception, the big UK
> >government FM contracts for IT provision and support are all let to
> >companies with a huge vested interest in maintaining their relationship
> >with Microsoft. If all that's being opened up is the use of ODF,
> >Microsoft will point out that they support ODF, though their
> >implementation is far from perfect, but that's no different from
> >LibreOffice's implementation of the DOCX format.
> >
> >In schools and elsewhere people are not taught "word processing". They
> >are taught explicitly how to use MS Word. Likewise with "spreadsheets"
> >and Excel. Although for most people the transition to LibreOffice would
> >be fairly trivial, the civil service would insist that everyone is
> >given conversion training. Microsoft could reasonably point to a high
> >cost of migration which, combined with the cost of Office pared back to
> >cost price or less, would see the company able to maintain its
> >stranglehold on government IT procurement. Civil servants can already
> >buy personal copies of Office Pro for well under £20. Think of the
> >price the government would get when ordering half a million copies.
> >
> >Nige
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Didn't the city of Munich start with this some years ago? Now they seem to be almost completely on the other side.
>
> --
> Enviado desde mi teléfono con K-9 Mail.

--
[hidden email]
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Open formats in UK gov?

Avi Greenbury-4
In reply to this post by Nigel Verity
Nigel Verity wrote:

> I think that standardising on open formats is a significant step but
> it is a long, long way from seeing the likes of LibreOffice running
> on the typical civil servant's desktop.

I don't think that's going to happen. I think office suites will be in
web-browsers before LO achieves that much traction.

> If all that's being opened up is the use of ODF, Microsoft will point
> out that they support ODF, though their implementation is far from
> perfect, but that's no different from LibreOffice's implementation of
> the DOCX format.

Yes, this is often mooted as one of the benefits of an open standard;
you may use whichever client you please. MS Office isn't necessarily a
poor decision from a functionality standpoint.

> In schools and elsewhere people are not taught "word processing".
> They are taught explicitly how to use MS Word. Likewise with
> "spreadsheets" and Excel. Although for most people the transition to
> LibreOffice would be fairly trivial, the civil service would insist
> that everyone is given conversion training. Microsoft could
> reasonably point to a high cost of migration which, combined with the
> cost of Office pared back to cost price or less, would see the
> company able to maintain its stranglehold on government IT
> procurement. Civil servants can already buy personal copies of Office
> Pro for well under £20. Think of the price the government would get
> when ordering half a million copies.

This is largely why companies don't tend to switch either. Though the
costs aren't in training the users so much as in training or finding
support staff, reimplementing macros and templates, and putting
together pipes such that systems expecting or emitting particular
file formats will still be operable.

--
Avi

--
[hidden email]
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/