Out of Space

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Out of Space

Richard Barmann
I am trying to send you the Partitions of both hard drives and a picture
of Grub but I cannot get past ~/.dropbox-dist/dropboxd
trying to set up Dropbox.

Is there another way to send it?


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Re: Out of Space

Liam Proven
On 6 August 2016 at 17:33, Richard Barmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I am trying to send you the Partitions of both hard drives and a picture of
> Grub but I cannot get past ~/.dropbox-dist/dropboxd
> trying to set up Dropbox.
>
> Is there another way to send it?

If you are short of space, why on *Earth* use anything that requires
you to install new software on the machine?!

Upload them to the web! You can upload to Dropbox using any web
browser, or you could use any of the many free image-hosting services,
such as Imgur or Photobucket.

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Re: Out of Space

Richard Barmann
http://s1244.photobucket.com/user/reb1932/slideshow/


On 08/06/2016 11:36 AM, Liam Proven wrote:

> On 6 August 2016 at 17:33, Richard Barmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I am trying to send you the Partitions of both hard drives and a picture of
>> Grub but I cannot get past ~/.dropbox-dist/dropboxd
>> trying to set up Dropbox.
>>
>> Is there another way to send it?
> If you are short of space, why on *Earth* use anything that requires
> you to install new software on the machine?!
>
> Upload them to the web! You can upload to Dropbox using any web
> browser, or you could use any of the many free image-hosting services,
> such as Imgur or Photobucket.
>


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Re: Out of Space

Liam Proven
On 6 August 2016 at 18:58, Richard Barmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> http://s1244.photobucket.com/user/reb1932/slideshow/


OK.

Your photos of the GParted screen are at a strange angle and do not
show the whole of the program window. I can't see the size of the 1st
disk.

I think you have 2 disks, correct?

One of about 250GB, and a second of about 75GB?

On disk #1:

You appear to have 4 *primary* partitions. If the disk is under 2TB,
which it appears to be, then it is partitioned with MBR. This allows a
maximum of 4 primary partitions. To have more, you would have to
remove one, make an *extended* partition, and inside that, make
logical partitions.

You have a swap partition and 3 (probably) root partitions.

On disk 2, you have:

4 additional Linux partitions.
And /another/ swap partition.

I advise Googling all these terms and studying them closely before you
do anything. Wikipedia is a good source.

From the boot menu, which is not entirely readable, because for that
one you held the camera far from the screen and the text is too small
for me to read, you appear to have 3 different versions of Ubuntu
installed: 15.04, 16.04 and an illegible one at the top.

All of these have their own root partitions and a mess of data partitions.

This is a complicated, tangled mess, to be frank, and while I don't
know how you got into it, I am not surprised you are confused.

Without knowing exactly what is installed where on your machine, it's
not possible to untangle the mess remotely. It's too complicated.

Use "try Ubuntu" mode and run Gparted. Create all your new partitions
using it. DO NOT try to use the built-in partitioner in the setup
program, it's not capable enough, and whatever you do, use manual
partitioning and do not allow the system to attempt to do it itself,
as you will get a mess like this again.

Here is what I would advise:

Start again. Backup, wipe, reload.

[1] Back up all your data to an external drive or 2. Ideally, make 2
copies of everything. USB2 drives are very cheap now. A 1TB drive will
be $50 or so.

[2] Boot from a new fresh Ubuntu 16.04 live CD.

[3] Remove *all* partitions.

THIS WILL ERASE ALL YOUR DATA AND PROGRAMS. BACK UP EVERYTHING *FIRST*.

[4] Make the following new partitions:

Disk #1:

/dev/sda1 ... /boot ... 2GB
/dev/sda2 ... extended... all remaining space
/dev/sda5 ... /home ... *inside* /dev/sda2 ... all remaining space

Disk #2

/dev/sdb1 ... extended...
/dev/sdb5 ... inside /dev/sdb1 ... 66GB... / (the root filesystem
where Ubuntu will live)
/dev/sdb6 ... inside /dev/sdb1 ... 8GB ... swap

It's more space than you need for root, but this config give you the
maximum possible space for your own data on disk #1 -- you will have
about 240-245GB.

If you want to keep it even simpler, you do not *need* the separate
/boot partition and can omit it.

If you want to have 2 copies of Ubuntu, you could split the space on
disk 2 into 2 equal-sized root partitions and share all the other
partitions (swap and home) between the 2 installations. I have done
this, and it works fine.

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Re: Out of Space

Richard Barmann
One disk is 75.53 Gib and the other is 149.xx . I had a Kubuntu 16.04
32Bit and a Ubuntu 16.04 32 Bit. I have downloaded and burned a Kubuntu
16.04  64 Bit and a Ubuntu 16.04  64 Bit. This is what I want to install
and I have saved what I need and the remove should solve my space
problem. There is a Kubuntu 15.04 that I want to get rid of. That is the
third program. Do you want me to try to take better pictures and resend
them?

Do I wipe the disks after inserting the Ubuntu disk?


On 08/06/2016 02:01 PM, Liam Proven wrote:

> On 6 August 2016 at 18:58, Richard Barmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> http://s1244.photobucket.com/user/reb1932/slideshow/
>
> OK.
>
> Your photos of the GParted screen are at a strange angle and do not
> show the whole of the program window. I can't see the size of the 1st
> disk.
>
> I think you have 2 disks, correct?
>
> One of about 250GB, and a second of about 75GB?
>
> On disk #1:
>
> You appear to have 4 *primary* partitions. If the disk is under 2TB,
> which it appears to be, then it is partitioned with MBR. This allows a
> maximum of 4 primary partitions. To have more, you would have to
> remove one, make an *extended* partition, and inside that, make
> logical partitions.
>
> You have a swap partition and 3 (probably) root partitions.
>
> On disk 2, you have:
>
> 4 additional Linux partitions.
> And /another/ swap partition.
>
> I advise Googling all these terms and studying them closely before you
> do anything. Wikipedia is a good source.
>
>  From the boot menu, which is not entirely readable, because for that
> one you held the camera far from the screen and the text is too small
> for me to read, you appear to have 3 different versions of Ubuntu
> installed: 15.04, 16.04 and an illegible one at the top.
>
> All of these have their own root partitions and a mess of data partitions.
>
> This is a complicated, tangled mess, to be frank, and while I don't
> know how you got into it, I am not surprised you are confused.
>
> Without knowing exactly what is installed where on your machine, it's
> not possible to untangle the mess remotely. It's too complicated.
>
> Use "try Ubuntu" mode and run Gparted. Create all your new partitions
> using it. DO NOT try to use the built-in partitioner in the setup
> program, it's not capable enough, and whatever you do, use manual
> partitioning and do not allow the system to attempt to do it itself,
> as you will get a mess like this again.
>
> Here is what I would advise:
>
> Start again. Backup, wipe, reload.
>
> [1] Back up all your data to an external drive or 2. Ideally, make 2
> copies of everything. USB2 drives are very cheap now. A 1TB drive will
> be $50 or so.
>
> [2] Boot from a new fresh Ubuntu 16.04 live CD.
>
> [3] Remove *all* partitions.
>
> THIS WILL ERASE ALL YOUR DATA AND PROGRAMS. BACK UP EVERYTHING *FIRST*.
>
> [4] Make the following new partitions:
>
> Disk #1:
>
> /dev/sda1 ... /boot ... 2GB
> /dev/sda2 ... extended... all remaining space
> /dev/sda5 ... /home ... *inside* /dev/sda2 ... all remaining space
>
> Disk #2
>
> /dev/sdb1 ... extended...
> /dev/sdb5 ... inside /dev/sdb1 ... 66GB... / (the root filesystem
> where Ubuntu will live)
> /dev/sdb6 ... inside /dev/sdb1 ... 8GB ... swap
>
> It's more space than you need for root, but this config give you the
> maximum possible space for your own data on disk #1 -- you will have
> about 240-245GB.
>
> If you want to keep it even simpler, you do not *need* the separate
> /boot partition and can omit it.
>
> If you want to have 2 copies of Ubuntu, you could split the space on
> disk 2 into 2 equal-sized root partitions and share all the other
> partitions (swap and home) between the 2 installations. I have done
> this, and it works fine.
>


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Re: Out of Space

Liam Proven
On 6 August 2016 at 20:14, Richard Barmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> One disk is 75.53 Gib and the other is 149.xx . I had a Kubuntu 16.04 32Bit
> and a Ubuntu 16.04 32 Bit. I have downloaded and burned a Kubuntu 16.04  64
> Bit and a Ubuntu 16.04  64 Bit. This is what I want to install and I have
> saved what I need and the remove should solve my space problem. There is a
> Kubuntu 15.04 that I want to get rid of. That is the third program. Do you
> want me to try to take better pictures and resend them?
>
> Do I wipe the disks after inserting the Ubuntu disk?


Please *bottom quote* on the list.

Why do you want 2 different distros? This will make life a LOT harder
for you, and no offence, but you are clearly a rookie and do not
really understand this stuff well.

If you just want to try different desktops, you can install as many as
you want in a single copy of Ubuntu.


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Re: Out of Space

Ralf Mardorf-2
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 20:01:21 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:
>/dev/sda1 ... /boot ... 2GB

I would add /boot to / and don't give it its own partition, so required
space is automatically allocated, if needed.

>/dev/sda2 ... extended... all remaining space
>/dev/sda5 ... /home ... *inside* /dev/sda2 ... all remaining space

I don't use a separated /home partition either, but nothing is speaking
against giving /home it's own partition. Some people consider that
having /home on its own partition, as being an advantage, so this is ok.

_But_ just formatting one primary partition is a bad habit, since some
operating systems, e.g. FreeBSD require a primary partition and you
never know, if you one day might want to test such an operating system.

So format your drives like this

/dev/sda1 primary
/dev/sda2 primary
/dev/sda3 primary
/dev/sda4 extended
/dev/sda5
/dev/sdan

/dev/sdb1 primary
/dev/sdb2 primary
/dev/sdb3 primary
/dev/sdb4 extended
/dev/sdb5
/dev/sdan

n is for as much partitions you like. However, don't make the
partitions to small. Format all partitions to ext4, but format one
partition on each HDD as a Linux swap. While all ext4 partitions should
be around <= 20 to >= 60 GiB (sure, it depends on the size of your
HDDs ;), so you might not want to have that much partitions), the two
swaps should be as large as the RAM of your computer, to be able to
suspend to disk,without the need to care about the compression.

IOW each HDD should have it's own swap and assuming you've enough
space, three primary partitions.
Use one large partition for /, including /boot, don't split it.

Use another large partition for /home, but also consider to have a
partition for special data, e.g. videos, documents, virtual machines
etc. (IMO you not necessarily need a separated /home).

For performance reasons it could be an advantage to have /home and data
partitions on one HDD and / on the other. You also could make
"backups" (quotation marks, because a backup should be made on an
external drive) in the future from sda to sdb and from sdb to sda, so
assumed one drive should fail, the other drive still contains its
content.

2 Cents,
Ralf


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Re: Out of Space

Ralf Mardorf-2
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 20:43:34 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:
>Why do you want 2 different distros? This will make life a LOT harder
>for you, and no offence, but you are clearly a rookie and do not
>really understand this stuff well.

While it could be an advantage to have two or more different installs
for an experienced user, I agree with Liam on that. Even for an
experienced user it's not easy to maintain more than two installs, a
not that experienced user should start by maintaining one install.

>If you just want to try different desktops, you can install as many as
>you want in a single copy of Ubuntu.

That's correct. The only pitfall are some gnomish file managers that by
default start in desktop mode, IRRC at least caja, nemo and nautilus
do, but we could help you to avoid this, since at least caja and nemo
provide a --no-desktop option and nautilus most likely does, too.

On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 14:14:12 -0400, Richard Barmann wrote:
>Do I wipe the disks after inserting the Ubuntu disk?

No, you first wipe and format and after that you continue with the
installation, in the manual way, Liam already described.

Do you have access to another computer, to keep in touch with the
mailing list, after you wiped out all installs?

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: Out of Space

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 21:20:01 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>Do you have access to another computer, to keep in touch with the
>mailing list, after you wiped out all installs?

If not we need to ensure, that you are able to get in contact with us,
using a live media.


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Re: Out of Space

Richard Barmann


On 08/06/2016 03:22 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 21:20:01 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> Do you have access to another computer, to keep in touch with the
>> mailing list, after you wiped out all installs?
> If not we need to ensure, that you are able to get in contact with us,
> using a live media.
>
>
I will see if I can borrow a laptop. Give me a day or two.
Thanks
Dick

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Re: Out of Space

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 15:33:07 -0400, Richard Barmann wrote:
>On 08/06/2016 03:22 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 21:20:01 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:  
>>> Do you have access to another computer, to keep in touch with the
>>> mailing list, after you wiped out all installs?  
>> If not we need to ensure, that you are able to get in contact with
>> us, using a live media.
>>
>>  
>I will see if I can borrow a laptop. Give me a day or two.

Are you using a router, IOW are you connected by dhcp to the Internet?

I don't know if or how you could access the barmannsbar.com server, but
at least you could use a free email address and use the email providers
web Interface with a browser, to contact the mailing list by a live
media. Rescue CDs usually get automatically access to the
Internet by dhcp, at least when connected by cable (wifi might be
tricky) to the router and they usually provide a browser.


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Re: Out of Space

Gene Heskett-2
In reply to this post by Ralf Mardorf-2
On Saturday 06 August 2016 15:06:17 Ralf Mardorf wrote:

> On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 20:01:21 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:
> >/dev/sda1 ... /boot ... 2GB
>
> I would add /boot to / and don't give it its own partition, so
> required space is automatically allocated, if needed.

I disagree with that advice Ralf. I have had a newer kernel just
installed, to be located far enough into the disk that the bios could
not reach it to boot it.

Because of that, I have had to redo the default partitioning so as to
have a separate /boot partition of a bit over 1Gb.

And make sure that when done, before pressing enter, that it is the FIRST
partition. I have had installers (including ubuntu's) re-arrange the
partition list on me several times.  Bad dog, no biscuit...

> >/dev/sda2 ... extended... all remaining space
> >/dev/sda5 ... /home ... *inside* /dev/sda2 ... all remaining space
>
> I don't use a separated /home partition either, but nothing is
> speaking against giving /home it's own partition. Some people consider
> that having /home on its own partition, as being an advantage, so this
> is ok.
>
> _But_ just formatting one primary partition is a bad habit, since some
> operating systems, e.g. FreeBSD require a primary partition and you
> never know, if you one day might want to test such an operating
> system.
>
> So format your drives like this
>
> /dev/sda1 primary
> /dev/sda2 primary
> /dev/sda3 primary
> /dev/sda4 extended
> /dev/sda5
> /dev/sdan
>
> /dev/sdb1 primary
> /dev/sdb2 primary
> /dev/sdb3 primary
> /dev/sdb4 extended
> /dev/sdb5
> /dev/sdan
>
> n is for as much partitions you like. However, don't make the
> partitions to small. Format all partitions to ext4, but format one
> partition on each HDD as a Linux swap. While all ext4 partitions
> should be around <= 20 to >= 60 GiB (sure, it depends on the size of
> your HDDs ;), so you might not want to have that much partitions), the
> two swaps should be as large as the RAM of your computer, to be able
> to suspend to disk,without the need to care about the compression.
>
> IOW each HDD should have it's own swap and assuming you've enough
> space, three primary partitions.
> Use one large partition for /, including /boot, don't split it.
>
> Use another large partition for /home, but also consider to have a
> partition for special data, e.g. videos, documents, virtual machines
> etc. (IMO you not necessarily need a separated /home).
>
> For performance reasons it could be an advantage to have /home and
> data partitions on one HDD and / on the other. You also could make
> "backups" (quotation marks, because a backup should be made on an
> external drive) in the future from sda to sdb and from sdb to sda, so
> assumed one drive should fail, the other drive still contains its
> content.
>
> 2 Cents,
> Ralf


Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: Out of Space

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Ralf Mardorf-2
On 6 August 2016 at 21:06, Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ralf, this is not really productive or helpful.

> On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 20:01:21 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:
>>/dev/sda1 ... /boot ... 2GB
>
> I would add /boot to / and don't give it its own partition, so required
> space is automatically allocated, if needed.

I know that, Ralf.

But it is to alleviate possible problems with booting the kernel off
the *2nd* HD.

>>/dev/sda2 ... extended... all remaining space
>>/dev/sda5 ... /home ... *inside* /dev/sda2 ... all remaining space
>
> I don't use a separated /home partition either, but nothing is speaking
> against giving /home it's own partition. Some people consider that
> having /home on its own partition, as being an advantage, so this is ok.

He has 2 hard disks. He needs to if he is to use the space on the 2nd drive.

> _But_ just formatting one primary partition is a bad habit, since some
> operating systems, e.g. FreeBSD require a primary partition and you
> never know, if you one day might want to test such an operating system.

[1] Wrong. It is a _good_ habit. It is the MS-DOS standard way and
avoids problems. E.g. Win10 Anniversary Update, released last week,
which is wiping unrecognised partitions on some systems.

Stick to the legal way.

[2] If, *as is already the case on this machine*, you have 4
primaries, then you cannot modify or replace anything without first
removing one of them, risking possible data loss.

Again, I thought about this before making any recommendations, based
on 28 years of professional PC partitioning knowledge.

> So format your drives like this
>
> /dev/sda1 primary
> /dev/sda2 primary
> /dev/sda3 primary
> /dev/sda4 extended
> /dev/sda5
> /dev/sdan

***NO!*** This makes it impossible to add more partitions and is very
bad advice.

It is perfectly possible to add new primaries afterwards. This is
_DISASTROUSLY_ bad advice!



> /dev/sdb1 primary
> /dev/sdb2 primary
> /dev/sdb3 primary
> /dev/sdb4 extended
> /dev/sdb5
> /dev/sdan

NONONONONO *NO*!

This is a _terrible_  idea based on bad assumptions and lack of consideration.


>
> n is for as much partitions you like. However, don't make the
> partitions to small. Format all partitions to ext4, but format one
> partition on each HDD as a Linux swap. While all ext4 partitions should
> be around <= 20 to >= 60 GiB (sure, it depends on the size of your
> HDDs ;), so you might not want to have that much partitions), the two
> swaps should be as large as the RAM of your computer, to be able to
> suspend to disk,without the need to care about the compression.

OMG NO!

Dear gods, do you WANT to make it as bad as possible?

This is a roadcrash!


> IOW each HDD should have it's own swap

NO!

> and assuming you've enough
> space, three primary partitions.

NO! Oh HELL no!

> Use one large partition for /, including /boot, don't split it.

Contentious.


>
> Use another large partition for /home, but also consider to have a
> partition for special data, e.g. videos, documents, virtual machines
> etc. (IMO you not necessarily need a separated /home).

No!

We already know that we must keep it simple! This is disastrous,
epically bad, road-crash terrible advice!

> For performance reasons it could be an advantage to have /home and data
> partitions on one HDD and / on the other.

My suggestion did that before you needlessly over-complicated it.

I cannot imagine how you could make *worse* recommendations unless you
suggested LVM and encryption!



>  You also could make
> "backups" (quotation marks, because a backup should be made on an
> external drive) in the future from sda to sdb and from sdb to sda, so
> assumed one drive should fail, the other drive still contains its
> content.
>
> 2 Cents,

You should pay him for the damage, confusion and panic you are causing.

Ralf, this is the worst, most misguided advice I have _EVER_ seen
_anyone_ give in my 21 years in the Linux community.


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Re: Out of Space

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Gene Heskett-2
On 7 August 2016 at 12:47, Gene Heskett <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I disagree with that advice Ralf. I have had a newer kernel just
> installed, to be located far enough into the disk that the bios could
> not reach it to boot it.

What kind of PC and what kind of disk and controller?

This used to be a common problem in the era of 486s and early Pentium
1 machines, but it's rare now. Was this very old hardware?

> Because of that, I have had to redo the default partitioning so as to
> have a separate /boot partition of a bit over 1Gb.
>
> And make sure that when done, before pressing enter, that it is the FIRST
> partition. I have had installers (including ubuntu's) re-arrange the
> partition list on me several times.  Bad dog, no biscuit...

Good advice (for very very old hardware, anyway).

I never let automatic partitioning tools run, unless it's for a
single-disk single-boot system: 1 empty HD, 1 OS. Then it can work,
but it can still screw up -- e.g. putting swap on Flash (bad plan), or
enabling swap in VMs (pointless).

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Re: Out of Space

Ralf Mardorf-2
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Sun, 7 Aug 2016 15:27:57 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:
>> /dev/sda1 primary
>> /dev/sda2 primary
>> /dev/sda3 primary
>> /dev/sda4 extended
>> /dev/sda5
>> /dev/sdan  
>
>***NO!*** This makes it impossible to add more partitions and is very
>bad advice.

That is wrong, I explain it below the next quote.

>It is perfectly possible to add new primaries afterwards. This is
>_DISASTROUSLY_ bad advice!

Are you sure? Anyway, even if it should be possible, in the above
example the fourth partition is an extended partition, so it is
possible to rearrange the formatting with as much extended partitions
you like, but because there are three, instead of just one partition,
you could install at least three operating systems that require a
primary partition, as already pointed out e.g. FreeBSD does.

Regarding having e.g. the install on sda and the data on sdb imagine
that parts of a program are not in the memory and need to be loaded and
at the same time, e.g. an audio workstation needs to read and write
audio files with some buffering, but still in real-time.

On Sun, 7 Aug 2016 15:31:50 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:
>On 7 August 2016 at 12:47, Gene Heskett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I disagree with that advice Ralf. I have had a newer kernel just
>> installed, to be located far enough into the disk that the bios could
>> not reach it to boot it.  
>
>What kind of PC and what kind of disk and controller?

Most important is the machine Richard is using and regarding the output
of lshw, this issue will not be an issue on the machine he is using.

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: Out of Space

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Sun, 7 Aug 2016 16:44:48 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

>On Sun, 7 Aug 2016 15:31:50 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:
>>On 7 August 2016 at 12:47, Gene Heskett <[hidden email]>
>>wrote:  
>>> I disagree with that advice Ralf. I have had a newer kernel just
>>> installed, to be located far enough into the disk that the bios
>>> could not reach it to boot it.    
>>
>>What kind of PC and what kind of disk and controller?  
>
>Most important is the machine Richard is using and regarding the output
>of lshw, this issue will not be an issue on the machine he is using.

IIRC on Gene's machine the issue is related to the BIOS' capability of
addressing.


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Re: Out of Space

Nils Kassube-2
In reply to this post by Gene Heskett-2
Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 06 August 2016 15:06:17 Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > On Sat, 6 Aug 2016 20:01:21 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:
> > >/dev/sda1 ... /boot ... 2GB
> >
> > I would add /boot to / and don't give it its own partition, so
> > required space is automatically allocated, if needed.
>
> I disagree with that advice Ralf. I have had a newer kernel just
> installed, to be located far enough into the disk that the bios could
> not reach it to boot it.

Very strange. I have a test partition on this machine which is located
about 1100 GB from the MBR and I had never any problems starting a
kernel from that partition.

As I understand it, the location of the kernel was important in the
early days of Linux when we used LILO (and disk space was counted in MB,
not GB/TB). Nowadays the kernel is loaded by GRUB2 which reads the file
system and should find the kernel at any position on the disk [1]. I
would assume there was something else broken when you thought it was the
location of the kernel.


Nils

[1] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_GRUB#GRUB_version_2_.28GRUB.29>


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Re: Out of Space

Oliver Grawert
hi,
On So, 2016-08-07 at 22:27 +0200, Nils Kassube wrote:

>
> As I understand it, the location of the kernel was important in the 
> early days of Linux when we used LILO (and disk space was counted in
> MB, 
> not GB/TB). Nowadays the kernel is loaded by GRUB2 which reads the
> file 
> system and should find the kernel at any position on the disk [1].

well, "nowadays" you would probably also just be clever enough to use a
GPT and not have to deal with stuff like primary or extended partitions
...
MSDOS partition tables are an anachronism from the last century ...

;)

ciao
        oli
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Re: Out of Space

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Sun, 07 Aug 2016 23:42:10 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote:
>well, "nowadays" you would probably also just be clever enough to use a
>GPT and not have to deal with stuff like primary or extended partitions

That might be right, I should take a look at it in a virtual machine.
I fear everything new regarding partitions, because of the experiences
I made with IIRC it was LVM on Linux and also with FreeBSD slices. I
guess I often confused GPT with LVM or something like this. maybe MBR
isn't the best choice, OTOH many users are used to it and Richards HDDs
have small sizes.

Apropos confusion:

On Sun, 7 Aug 2016 16:44:48 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

>On Sun, 7 Aug 2016 15:27:57 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:
>>> /dev/sda1 primary
>>> /dev/sda2 primary
>>> /dev/sda3 primary
>>> /dev/sda4 extended
>>> /dev/sda5
>>> /dev/sdan    
>>
>>***NO!*** This makes it impossible to add more partitions and is very
>>bad advice.  
>
>That is wrong, I explain it below the next quote.
>
>>It is perfectly possible to add new primaries afterwards. This is
>>_DISASTROUSLY_ bad advice!  
>
>Are you sure? Anyway, even if it should be possible, in the above
>example the fourth partition is an extended partition, so it is
>possible to rearrange the formatting with as much extended partitions
                                                   logical partitions ;)
>you like

Oops ;)

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: Out of Space

Gene Heskett-2
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Sunday 07 August 2016 09:31:50 Liam Proven wrote:

> On 7 August 2016 at 12:47, Gene Heskett <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I disagree with that advice Ralf. I have had a newer kernel just
> > installed, to be located far enough into the disk that the bios
> > could not reach it to boot it.
>
> What kind of PC and what kind of disk and controller?
>
> This used to be a common problem in the era of 486s and early Pentium
> 1 machines, but it's rare now. Was this very old hardware?

Wasn't new, maybe 5 yo when I got it as a gift, old hp pavilion.

> > Because of that, I have had to redo the default partitioning so as
> > to have a separate /boot partition of a bit over 1Gb.
> >
> > And make sure that when done, before pressing enter, that it is the
> > FIRST partition. I have had installers (including ubuntu's)
> > re-arrange the partition list on me several times.  Bad dog, no
> > biscuit...
>
> Good advice (for very very old hardware, anyway).
>
> I never let automatic partitioning tools run, unless it's for a
> single-disk single-boot system: 1 empty HD, 1 OS. Then it can work,
> but it can still screw up -- e.g. putting swap on Flash (bad plan), or
> enabling swap in VMs (pointless).

With todays installers, how can you make it use an already prepared,
labeled and formatted disk? Thats a trick I have never seen done.

Thanks Liam.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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