Project Looking Glass

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Project Looking Glass

Paul Byrne

Hi,

I am one of the leads on Project Looking Glass
(http://lg3d.dev.java.net). This is a research project for exploring how
we can use the widely available 3D chipsets to enhance the desktop.

I'd like to build Ubuntu packages for the project and it's dependencies
to make installation much easier. As part of this work I was hoping to
get some peer review of things like installation location, config file
locations etc. Is this the correct forum/alias on which to hold this
discussion ?

In case it is here are my first questions....

I'm proposing to install our binaries in /usr/share/lg3d and our
configuration files in /etc/lg3d, not very contraversial I hope ;-)

A trickier question, we provide a slightly modified Xorg server (all the
source is in the Xorg cvs). It run's GNOME etc without any problems but
provides some new features we need. What is the correct way to have the
system start our X server rather that the default one, use the
update-alternatives mechanism ?

We also need to modify the gdm.conf file to include our project in the
list of session choices. I assume the correct way to do this is update
the file from a post install script.

Thanks

Paul

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Re: Project Looking Glass

Daniel Stone-4
On Thu, Nov 17, 2005 at 04:18:09PM -0800, Paul Byrne wrote:
> I'm proposing to install our binaries in /usr/share/lg3d and our
> configuration files in /etc/lg3d, not very contraversial I hope ;-)

Uhm ... binaries go in /usr/lib, rather than /usr/share; that is, if
they're internal-only.  Binaries that users run should go in /usr/bin.

> A trickier question, we provide a slightly modified Xorg server (all the
> source is in the Xorg cvs). It run's GNOME etc without any problems but
> provides some new features we need. What is the correct way to have the
> system start our X server rather that the default one, use the
> update-alternatives mechanism ?

Look into the xserver-xorg package's maintainer scripts, in its
interactions with default-x-server; you'll need to do much the same.

Cheers,
Daniel

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Re: Project Looking Glass

pietro ferrari
In reply to this post by Paul Byrne
On 11/17/05, Paul Byrne <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'd like to build Ubuntu packages for the project and it's dependencies
> to make installation much easier. As part of this work I was hoping to
> get some peer review of things like installation location, config file
> locations etc. Is this the correct forum/alias on which to hold this
> discussion ?

does looking glass runs with any free JVM? as you might know Ubuntu
can't distribute SUN JVM because of its license.

pietro.

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Re: Project Looking Glass

Ante Karamatic-2
In reply to this post by Paul Byrne
On Thu, 2005-11-17 at 16:18 -0800, Paul Byrne wrote:

> We also need to modify the gdm.conf file to include our project in the
> list of session choices. I assume the correct way to do this is update
> the file from a post install script.

No, you have to add session file in /usr/share/xsessions/.

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Re: Project Looking Glass

Paul Byrne
In reply to this post by pietro ferrari

Hi Pietro,

I doubt it will run on any of the free vm's. I think someone in our
community tried it but I can't find the thread at the moment. This is a
problem I'm very keen on solving, there are a number of routes I'm
exploring. In the meantime I was hoping we could include Project Looking
Glass in the Universe or Multiverse. We also rely on Java 3D, but I'll
be building a .deb package for that.

Rgds

Paul

pietro ferrari wrote:

>On 11/17/05, Paul Byrne <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I'd like to build Ubuntu packages for the project and it's dependencies
>>to make installation much easier. As part of this work I was hoping to
>>get some peer review of things like installation location, config file
>>locations etc. Is this the correct forum/alias on which to hold this
>>discussion ?
>>    
>>
>
>does looking glass runs with any free JVM? as you might know Ubuntu
>can't distribute SUN JVM because of its license.
>
>pietro.
>
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>  
>

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Re: Project Looking Glass

Paul Byrne
In reply to this post by Daniel Stone-4

Hi Daniel,

Apart from our updated Xserver most of our binaries are actually jar
files so I don't think they belong in /usr/lib itself, let me give some
more detail....

Currently for development we have everything under one directory, the
structure looks like this

lg3d
    ext                           Supporting jars for both core and
bundled apps
    ext-unbundled         Space for app specific supporting jars
    lib                           The main platform jars and native
.so's for X server binding
    resources                  Images etc
    bin                           Shell scripts to start everything
    etc/lg3d                    Config files

For deployment the etc/lg3d directory obviously becomes /etc/lg3d and
the scripts in bin probably belong in /usr/local/bin. For everything
else there seem to be a number of choices, the best of which I think are

1)  The .so's go in /usr/lib/lg3d and everything else goes in
/usr/share/lg3d. Apache-ant seems to follow this approach.

2) The .so's and all the jars go in /usr/lib/lg3d (various sub
directories) and the resources  go in /usr/share/lg3d

3) As we are providing a window system platform we follow the precendent
set by X and put everything (except etc) in /usr/lg3d as a sibling of
/usr/X11R6

OpenOffice and gcj seems to have jars in both /usr/share and /usr/lib

My preference would be either 1 or 3 as it keeps the bulk of the
components together. What do you think ?

Cheers

Paul

Daniel Stone wrote:

>On Thu, Nov 17, 2005 at 04:18:09PM -0800, Paul Byrne wrote:
>  
>
>>I'm proposing to install our binaries in /usr/share/lg3d and our
>>configuration files in /etc/lg3d, not very contraversial I hope ;-)
>>    
>>
>
>Uhm ... binaries go in /usr/lib, rather than /usr/share; that is, if
>they're internal-only.  Binaries that users run should go in /usr/bin.
>
>  
>
>>A trickier question, we provide a slightly modified Xorg server (all the
>>source is in the Xorg cvs). It run's GNOME etc without any problems but
>>provides some new features we need. What is the correct way to have the
>>system start our X server rather that the default one, use the
>>update-alternatives mechanism ?
>>    
>>
>
>Look into the xserver-xorg package's maintainer scripts, in its
>interactions with default-x-server; you'll need to do much the same.
>
>Cheers,
>Daniel
>  
>

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Re: Project Looking Glass

Martin Schmeisser
Hi,

to work around the license problem, maybe sun could be so nice to put up
a deb repository with suns jre, lg3d and java3d?

</2cents>

cheers, Martin


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Re: Project Looking Glass

Matthew Garrett
In reply to this post by Paul Byrne
On Fri, Nov 18, 2005 at 08:51:46AM -0800, Paul Byrne wrote:

> I doubt it will run on any of the free vm's. I think someone in our
> community tried it but I can't find the thread at the moment. This is a
> problem I'm very keen on solving, there are a number of routes I'm
> exploring. In the meantime I was hoping we could include Project Looking
> Glass in the Universe or Multiverse. We also rely on Java 3D, but I'll
> be building a .deb package for that.

If it depends on the closed Java, we can't ship it at all since we can't
legally distribute the Sun JRE (even in multiverse). There's no point in
us shipping debs that require software from outside the archive.
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Re: Project Looking Glass

Evandro Fernandes Giovanini
In reply to this post by Martin Schmeisser
Em Sáb, 2005-11-19 às 10:38 +0100, Martin Schmeisser escreveu:

> Hi,
>
> to work around the license problem, maybe sun could be so nice to put up
> a deb repository with suns jre, lg3d and java3d?
>
> </2cents>
>
> cheers, Martin
>
>

That would be nice as it would make it easier to install the JRE plugin,
but I believe Sun wants to count downloads (of the JRE) from their
website.

Oh well, someday we'll have Free Java and Flash plugins. :)

Cheers,
Evandro

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Re: Project Looking Glass

Michael Moore-2
> > to work around the license problem, maybe sun could be so nice to put up
> > a deb repository with suns jre, lg3d and java3d?
> >
>
> That would be nice as it would make it easier to install the JRE plugin,
> but I believe Sun wants to count downloads (of the JRE) from their
> website.

If Sun were running the repository, they could still count the numbers.

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Re: Project Looking Glass

Daniel Stone
In reply to this post by Paul Byrne
On Fri, Nov 18, 2005 at 10:10:34AM -0800, Paul Byrne wrote:

> Apart from our updated Xserver most of our binaries are actually jar
> files so I don't think they belong in /usr/lib itself, let me give some
> more detail....
>
> Currently for development we have everything under one directory, the
> structure looks like this
>
> lg3d
>     ext                           Supporting jars for both core and
> bundled apps
>     ext-unbundled         Space for app specific supporting jars
>     lib                           The main platform jars and native
> .so's for X server binding
>     resources                  Images etc
>     bin                           Shell scripts to start everything
>     etc/lg3d                    Config files
>
> For deployment the etc/lg3d directory obviously becomes /etc/lg3d and
> the scripts in bin probably belong in /usr/local/bin. For everything
> else there seem to be a number of choices, the best of which I think are
You can't install stuff to /usr/local (or to /home) at all[0], so
/usr/bin would be a better fit.

> 1)  The .so's go in /usr/lib/lg3d and everything else goes in
> /usr/share/lg3d. Apache-ant seems to follow this approach.

This sounds like the best fit to me.

> 2) The .so's and all the jars go in /usr/lib/lg3d (various sub
> directories) and the resources  go in /usr/share/lg3d

If the jars are architecture-independent, then /usr/share may indeed be
a better fit; I'm not very well qualified to speak about Java, however,
so your best bet here may be to read the Debian Java Policy.

> 3) As we are providing a window system platform we follow the precendent
> set by X and put everything (except etc) in /usr/lg3d as a sibling of
> /usr/X11R6

Ah.  We moved most of X out of /usr/X11R6 and into /usr (e.g. /usr/bin,
/usr/lib, /usr/share, /usr/include et al) for the Breezy cycle, but
unfortunately the server was still stuck there.  However, for Dapper,
we've got the last of it out.

> OpenOffice and gcj seems to have jars in both /usr/share and /usr/lib
>
> My preference would be either 1 or 3 as it keeps the bulk of the
> components together. What do you think ?

I guess 1 sounds most attractive to me, but you don't really need to
keep all your components all in one directory with a packaging system as
much as you do when you don't have those supports.

Cheers,
Daniel

[0]: The main exception to this being when you need to install
     directories to enable user-supplied scripts to be installed, e.g.
     /usr/local/share/python/site-packages.

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Re: Project Looking Glass

Matt Zimmerman-2
In reply to this post by Matthew Garrett
On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 06:30:45PM +0000, Matthew Garrett wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 18, 2005 at 08:51:46AM -0800, Paul Byrne wrote:
>
> > I doubt it will run on any of the free vm's. I think someone in our
> > community tried it but I can't find the thread at the moment. This is a
> > problem I'm very keen on solving, there are a number of routes I'm
> > exploring. In the meantime I was hoping we could include Project Looking
> > Glass in the Universe or Multiverse. We also rely on Java 3D, but I'll
> > be building a .deb package for that.
>
> If it depends on the closed Java, we can't ship it at all since we can't
> legally distribute the Sun JRE (even in multiverse). There's no point in
> us shipping debs that require software from outside the archive.

That is an issue which is being actively discussed in other forums, and
shows the potential to be resolved in the foreseeable future.

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