RE: i386 architecture will be dropped starting with eoan (Ubuntu 19.10)

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RE: i386 architecture will be dropped starting with eoan (Ubuntu 19.10)

Erich Eickmeyer
Hello Steve,

>Last year, the Ubuntu developer community considered the question of
whether
>to continue carrying forward the i386 architecture in the Ubuntu
archive for
>future releases.[1]  The discussion at the time was inconclusive, but in
>light of the strong possibility that we might not include i386 as a release
>architecture in 20.04 LTS, we took the proactive step to disable upgrades
>from 18.04 to 18.10 for i386 systems[2], to avoid accidentally stranding
>users on an interim release with 9 months of support instead of letting
them
>continue to run Ubuntu 18.04 LTS with its 5 years of standard support.
>
>In February of this year, I also posted to communicate the timeline in
which
>we would take a final decision about i386 support in 20.04 LTS[3], namely,
>that we would decide in the middle of 2019.
>
>The middle of 2019 has now arrived.   The Ubuntu engineering team has
>reviewed the facts before us and concluded that we should not continue to
>carry i386 forward as an architecture.   Consequently, i386 will not be
>included as an architecture for the 19.10 release, and we will shortly
begin
>the process of disabling it for the eoan series across Ubuntu
>infrastructure.
>
>While this means we will not provide 32-bit builds of new upstream versions
>of libraries, there are a number of ways that 32-bit applications can
>continue to be made available to users of later Ubuntu releases, as
detailed
>in [4].   We will be working to polish the 32-bit support story over the
>course of the 19.10 development cycle.  To follow the evolution of this
>support, you can participate in the discourse thread at [5].
>
>[1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040310.html
>[2] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/1:18.10.10
>[3]
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2019-February/040598.html
>[4] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040348.html
>[5]
https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/i386-architecture-will-be-dropped-starting-with-eoan-ubuntu-19-10/11263/2

It took me a while to reach this decision, but I believe my response is
in order.

I really wish the flavor leads had been consulted prior to this decision
being made. You yourself even sponsored a package back in March that is
directly affected by this decision.

One of the biggest features of Carla being in the repositories is that
it allows a WINE Bridge for Windows-based VST plugins, the vast majority
of which are STILL compiled in 32-bit. Without 32-bit support, this
feature is dead. This makes converting to Ubuntu Studio from Windows
especially hard on those who rely on Windows VST plugins, the vast
majority for which there is no Linux alternative. If this WINE bridge
disappears due to this decision, so does a large part of our user base.
We're talking a huge chunk of professional recording studios and artists
that would rather not be running Windows.

I understand this decision has been made, but with my Ubuntu Studio
Project Leader hat on, I can say that this is an extreme disservice to
our user base and community. If it's possible to reconsider this
decision at this point, I urge you to do so.

Best regards,
Erich Eickmeyer
----
Erich Eickmeyer
Project Leader
Ubuntu Studio

ubuntustudio.org


--
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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] i386 architecture will be dropped starting with eoan (Ubuntu 19.10)

Luigino Bracci
I also disagree with this decision. In my country, there is A LOT of hardware (minilaptops, old computers) with just 1 GB of RAM; those computers have 64-bit CPUs, but we recommend installing 32-bit distros on them, because the performance of a 64-bit distribution in 1 GB of RAM is disappointing; it's too slow because applications compiled for 64-bit eat more memory. Most people just can't pay the RAM upgrade to 2 GB or 4 GB (that upgrade costs one month of sallary in many countries).

GNU/Linux is the natural option in developing countries. The government of my country gave 2,6 millions of minilaptops to children in the last 8 years, all with 1 GB of RAM and a Debian-based 32-bit Linux distro.

I apologize for the rudeness of what I'm going to say, but stop creating 32-bit distributions is a decision that seems taken by people living in New York, having computers with 16 GB of RAM and 1 TB SSDs, and believing that the rest of the world lives like them.

Regards.

El vie., 21 de jun. de 2019 a la(s) 10:53, Erich Eickmeyer ([hidden email]) escribió:
Hello Steve,

>Last year, the Ubuntu developer community considered the question of
whether
>to continue carrying forward the i386 architecture in the Ubuntu
archive for
>future releases.[1]  The discussion at the time was inconclusive, but in
>light of the strong possibility that we might not include i386 as a release
>architecture in 20.04 LTS, we took the proactive step to disable upgrades
>from 18.04 to 18.10 for i386 systems[2], to avoid accidentally stranding
>users on an interim release with 9 months of support instead of letting
them
>continue to run Ubuntu 18.04 LTS with its 5 years of standard support.
>
>In February of this year, I also posted to communicate the timeline in
which
>we would take a final decision about i386 support in 20.04 LTS[3], namely,
>that we would decide in the middle of 2019.
>
>The middle of 2019 has now arrived.   The Ubuntu engineering team has
>reviewed the facts before us and concluded that we should not continue to
>carry i386 forward as an architecture.   Consequently, i386 will not be
>included as an architecture for the 19.10 release, and we will shortly
begin
>the process of disabling it for the eoan series across Ubuntu
>infrastructure.
>
>While this means we will not provide 32-bit builds of new upstream versions
>of libraries, there are a number of ways that 32-bit applications can
>continue to be made available to users of later Ubuntu releases, as
detailed
>in [4].   We will be working to polish the 32-bit support story over the
>course of the 19.10 development cycle.  To follow the evolution of this
>support, you can participate in the discourse thread at [5].
>
>[1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040310.html
>[2] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/1:18.10.10
>[3]
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2019-February/040598.html
>[4] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040348.html
>[5]
https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/i386-architecture-will-be-dropped-starting-with-eoan-ubuntu-19-10/11263/2

It took me a while to reach this decision, but I believe my response is
in order.

I really wish the flavor leads had been consulted prior to this decision
being made. You yourself even sponsored a package back in March that is
directly affected by this decision.

One of the biggest features of Carla being in the repositories is that
it allows a WINE Bridge for Windows-based VST plugins, the vast majority
of which are STILL compiled in 32-bit. Without 32-bit support, this
feature is dead. This makes converting to Ubuntu Studio from Windows
especially hard on those who rely on Windows VST plugins, the vast
majority for which there is no Linux alternative. If this WINE bridge
disappears due to this decision, so does a large part of our user base.
We're talking a huge chunk of professional recording studios and artists
that would rather not be running Windows.

I understand this decision has been made, but with my Ubuntu Studio
Project Leader hat on, I can say that this is an extreme disservice to
our user base and community. If it's possible to reconsider this
decision at this point, I urge you to do so.

Best regards,
Erich Eickmeyer
----
Erich Eickmeyer
Project Leader
Ubuntu Studio

ubuntustudio.org

--
ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] i386 architecture will be dropped starting with eoan (Ubuntu 19.10)

Kris Komar
It’s time to move on. Having 1GB of RAM is no longer acceptable in computing today. We need to move forward. You could have argued that point in 2010 to some success but it’s 2019. 2019! They will need to upgrade. 

On Jun 21, 2019, at 9:33 AM, Luigino Bracci <[hidden email]> wrote:

I also disagree with this decision. In my country, there is A LOT of hardware (minilaptops, old computers) with just 1 GB of RAM; those computers have 64-bit CPUs, but we recommend installing 32-bit distros on them, because the performance of a 64-bit distribution in 1 GB of RAM is disappointing; it's too slow because applications compiled for 64-bit eat more memory. Most people just can't pay the RAM upgrade to 2 GB or 4 GB (that upgrade costs one month of sallary in many countries).

GNU/Linux is the natural option in developing countries. The government of my country gave 2,6 millions of minilaptops to children in the last 8 years, all with 1 GB of RAM and a Debian-based 32-bit Linux distro.

I apologize for the rudeness of what I'm going to say, but stop creating 32-bit distributions is a decision that seems taken by people living in New York, having computers with 16 GB of RAM and 1 TB SSDs, and believing that the rest of the world lives like them.

Regards.

El vie., 21 de jun. de 2019 a la(s) 10:53, Erich Eickmeyer ([hidden email]) escribió:
Hello Steve,

>Last year, the Ubuntu developer community considered the question of
whether
>to continue carrying forward the i386 architecture in the Ubuntu
archive for
>future releases.[1]  The discussion at the time was inconclusive, but in
>light of the strong possibility that we might not include i386 as a release
>architecture in 20.04 LTS, we took the proactive step to disable upgrades
>from 18.04 to 18.10 for i386 systems[2], to avoid accidentally stranding
>users on an interim release with 9 months of support instead of letting
them
>continue to run Ubuntu 18.04 LTS with its 5 years of standard support.
>
>In February of this year, I also posted to communicate the timeline in
which
>we would take a final decision about i386 support in 20.04 LTS[3], namely,
>that we would decide in the middle of 2019.
>
>The middle of 2019 has now arrived.   The Ubuntu engineering team has
>reviewed the facts before us and concluded that we should not continue to
>carry i386 forward as an architecture.   Consequently, i386 will not be
>included as an architecture for the 19.10 release, and we will shortly
begin
>the process of disabling it for the eoan series across Ubuntu
>infrastructure.
>
>While this means we will not provide 32-bit builds of new upstream versions
>of libraries, there are a number of ways that 32-bit applications can
>continue to be made available to users of later Ubuntu releases, as
detailed
>in [4].   We will be working to polish the 32-bit support story over the
>course of the 19.10 development cycle.  To follow the evolution of this
>support, you can participate in the discourse thread at [5].
>
>[1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040310.html
>[2] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/1:18.10.10
>[3]
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2019-February/040598.html
>[4] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040348.html
>[5]
https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/i386-architecture-will-be-dropped-starting-with-eoan-ubuntu-19-10/11263/2

It took me a while to reach this decision, but I believe my response is
in order.

I really wish the flavor leads had been consulted prior to this decision
being made. You yourself even sponsored a package back in March that is
directly affected by this decision.

One of the biggest features of Carla being in the repositories is that
it allows a WINE Bridge for Windows-based VST plugins, the vast majority
of which are STILL compiled in 32-bit. Without 32-bit support, this
feature is dead. This makes converting to Ubuntu Studio from Windows
especially hard on those who rely on Windows VST plugins, the vast
majority for which there is no Linux alternative. If this WINE bridge
disappears due to this decision, so does a large part of our user base.
We're talking a huge chunk of professional recording studios and artists
that would rather not be running Windows.

I understand this decision has been made, but with my Ubuntu Studio
Project Leader hat on, I can say that this is an extreme disservice to
our user base and community. If it's possible to reconsider this
decision at this point, I urge you to do so.

Best regards,
Erich Eickmeyer
----
Erich Eickmeyer
Project Leader
Ubuntu Studio

ubuntustudio.org

--
ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
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Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] i386 architecture will be dropped starting with eoan (Ubuntu 19.10)

lukefromdc
That may be practical in the US and Europe, but far less practical for say, an activist media maker in a Rio favela opposing Bolsonaro's efforts to "cleanse" the city of the poor. S/he might be limited to the hardware on hand, and an upgrade requirement will be translated into a change distro or don't update software requirement. Not everyone has even a single penny to spend on replacing equipment that may still function as it did when new. Just because fat-pig ad supported websites full of tracking and fingerprinting scripts have moved on doesn't mean everyone has to.

On 6/27/2019 at 10:44 PM, "Kris Komar" <[hidden email]> wrote:
It’s time to move on. Having 1GB of RAM is no longer acceptable in computing today. We need to move forward. You could have argued that point in 2010 to some success but it’s 2019. 2019! They will need to upgrade. 

On Jun 21, 2019, at 9:33 AM, Luigino Bracci <[hidden email]> wrote:

I also disagree with this decision. In my country, there is A LOT of hardware (minilaptops, old computers) with just 1 GB of RAM; those computers have 64-bit CPUs, but we recommend installing 32-bit distros on them, because the performance of a 64-bit distribution in 1 GB of RAM is disappointing; it's too slow because applications compiled for 64-bit eat more memory. Most people just can't pay the RAM upgrade to 2 GB or 4 GB (that upgrade costs one month of sallary in many countries).

GNU/Linux is the natural option in developing countries. The government of my country gave 2,6 millions of minilaptops to children in the last 8 years, all with 1 GB of RAM and a Debian-based 32-bit Linux distro.

I apologize for the rudeness of what I'm going to say, but stop creating 32-bit distributions is a decision that seems taken by people living in New York, having computers with 16 GB of RAM and 1 TB SSDs, and believing that the rest of the world lives like them.

Regards.

El vie., 21 de jun. de 2019 a la(s) 10:53, Erich Eickmeyer ([hidden email]) escribió:
Hello Steve,

>Last year, the Ubuntu developer community considered the question of
whether
>to continue carrying forward the i386 architecture in the Ubuntu
archive for
>future releases.[1]  The discussion at the time was inconclusive, but in
>light of the strong possibility that we might not include i386 as a release
>architecture in 20.04 LTS, we took the proactive step to disable upgrades
>from 18.04 to 18.10 for i386 systems[2], to avoid accidentally stranding
>users on an interim release with 9 months of support instead of letting
them
>continue to run Ubuntu 18.04 LTS with its 5 years of standard support.
>
>In February of this year, I also posted to communicate the timeline in
which
>we would take a final decision about i386 support in 20.04 LTS[3], namely,
>that we would decide in the middle of 2019.
>
>The middle of 2019 has now arrived.   The Ubuntu engineering team has
>reviewed the facts before us and concluded that we should not continue to
>carry i386 forward as an architecture.   Consequently, i386 will not be
>included as an architecture for the 19.10 release, and we will shortly
begin
>the process of disabling it for the eoan series across Ubuntu
>infrastructure.
>
>While this means we will not provide 32-bit builds of new upstream versions
>of libraries, there are a number of ways that 32-bit applications can
>continue to be made available to users of later Ubuntu releases, as
detailed
>in [4].   We will be working to polish the 32-bit support story over the
>course of the 19.10 development cycle.  To follow the evolution of this
>support, you can participate in the discourse thread at [5].
>
>[1] <a target="_blank" href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040310.html" onclick="window.open('https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040310.html');return false;">https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040310.html
>[2] <a target="_blank" href="https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/1:18.10.10" onclick="window.open('https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/1:18.10.10');return false;">https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/1:18.10.10
>[3]
<a target="_blank" href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2019-February/040598.html" onclick="window.open('https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2019-February/040598.html');return false;">https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2019-February/040598.html
>[4] <a target="_blank" href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040348.html" onclick="window.open('https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040348.html');return false;">https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040348.html
>[5]
<a target="_blank" href="https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/i386-architecture-will-be-dropped-starting-with-eoan-ubuntu-19-10/11263/2" onclick="window.open('https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/i386-architecture-will-be-dropped-starting-with-eoan-ubuntu-19-10/11263/2');return false;">https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/i386-architecture-will-be-dropped-starting-with-eoan-ubuntu-19-10/11263/2

It took me a while to reach this decision, but I believe my response is
in order.

I really wish the flavor leads had been consulted prior to this decision
being made. You yourself even sponsored a package back in March that is
directly affected by this decision.

One of the biggest features of Carla being in the repositories is that
it allows a WINE Bridge for Windows-based VST plugins, the vast majority
of which are STILL compiled in 32-bit. Without 32-bit support, this
feature is dead. This makes converting to Ubuntu Studio from Windows
especially hard on those who rely on Windows VST plugins, the vast
majority for which there is no Linux alternative. If this WINE bridge
disappears due to this decision, so does a large part of our user base.
We're talking a huge chunk of professional recording studios and artists
that would rather not be running Windows.

I understand this decision has been made, but with my Ubuntu Studio
Project Leader hat on, I can say that this is an extreme disservice to
our user base and community. If it's possible to reconsider this
decision at this point, I urge you to do so.

Best regards,
Erich Eickmeyer
----
Erich Eickmeyer
Project Leader
Ubuntu Studio

<a target="_blank" href="http://ubuntustudio.org" onclick="window.open('http://ubuntustudio.org');return false;">ubuntustudio.org

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Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] i386 architecture will be dropped starting with eoan (Ubuntu 19.10)

Michel Memeteau - EKIMIA
Hi, Ubuntu 18.04 is supported until 2028, so there will still be this option until 2028 for i386
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Le ven. 28 juin 2019 à 13:07, <[hidden email]> a écrit :
That may be practical in the US and Europe, but far less practical for say, an activist media maker in a Rio favela opposing Bolsonaro's efforts to "cleanse" the city of the poor. S/he might be limited to the hardware on hand, and an upgrade requirement will be translated into a change distro or don't update software requirement. Not everyone has even a single penny to spend on replacing equipment that may still function as it did when new. Just because fat-pig ad supported websites full of tracking and fingerprinting scripts have moved on doesn't mean everyone has to.

On 6/27/2019 at 10:44 PM, "Kris Komar" <[hidden email]> wrote:
It’s time to move on. Having 1GB of RAM is no longer acceptable in computing today. We need to move forward. You could have argued that point in 2010 to some success but it’s 2019. 2019! They will need to upgrade. 

On Jun 21, 2019, at 9:33 AM, Luigino Bracci <[hidden email]> wrote:

I also disagree with this decision. In my country, there is A LOT of hardware (minilaptops, old computers) with just 1 GB of RAM; those computers have 64-bit CPUs, but we recommend installing 32-bit distros on them, because the performance of a 64-bit distribution in 1 GB of RAM is disappointing; it's too slow because applications compiled for 64-bit eat more memory. Most people just can't pay the RAM upgrade to 2 GB or 4 GB (that upgrade costs one month of sallary in many countries).

GNU/Linux is the natural option in developing countries. The government of my country gave 2,6 millions of minilaptops to children in the last 8 years, all with 1 GB of RAM and a Debian-based 32-bit Linux distro.

I apologize for the rudeness of what I'm going to say, but stop creating 32-bit distributions is a decision that seems taken by people living in New York, having computers with 16 GB of RAM and 1 TB SSDs, and believing that the rest of the world lives like them.

Regards.

El vie., 21 de jun. de 2019 a la(s) 10:53, Erich Eickmeyer ([hidden email]) escribió:
Hello Steve,

>Last year, the Ubuntu developer community considered the question of
whether
>to continue carrying forward the i386 architecture in the Ubuntu
archive for
>future releases.[1]  The discussion at the time was inconclusive, but in
>light of the strong possibility that we might not include i386 as a release
>architecture in 20.04 LTS, we took the proactive step to disable upgrades
>from 18.04 to 18.10 for i386 systems[2], to avoid accidentally stranding
>users on an interim release with 9 months of support instead of letting
them
>continue to run Ubuntu 18.04 LTS with its 5 years of standard support.
>
>In February of this year, I also posted to communicate the timeline in
which
>we would take a final decision about i386 support in 20.04 LTS[3], namely,
>that we would decide in the middle of 2019.
>
>The middle of 2019 has now arrived.   The Ubuntu engineering team has
>reviewed the facts before us and concluded that we should not continue to
>carry i386 forward as an architecture.   Consequently, i386 will not be
>included as an architecture for the 19.10 release, and we will shortly
begin
>the process of disabling it for the eoan series across Ubuntu
>infrastructure.
>
>While this means we will not provide 32-bit builds of new upstream versions
>of libraries, there are a number of ways that 32-bit applications can
>continue to be made available to users of later Ubuntu releases, as
detailed
>in [4].   We will be working to polish the 32-bit support story over the
>course of the 19.10 development cycle.  To follow the evolution of this
>support, you can participate in the discourse thread at [5].
>
>[1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040310.html
>[2] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-release-upgrader/1:18.10.10
>[3]
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2019-February/040598.html
>[4] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2018-May/040348.html
>[5]
https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/i386-architecture-will-be-dropped-starting-with-eoan-ubuntu-19-10/11263/2

It took me a while to reach this decision, but I believe my response is
in order.

I really wish the flavor leads had been consulted prior to this decision
being made. You yourself even sponsored a package back in March that is
directly affected by this decision.

One of the biggest features of Carla being in the repositories is that
it allows a WINE Bridge for Windows-based VST plugins, the vast majority
of which are STILL compiled in 32-bit. Without 32-bit support, this
feature is dead. This makes converting to Ubuntu Studio from Windows
especially hard on those who rely on Windows VST plugins, the vast
majority for which there is no Linux alternative. If this WINE bridge
disappears due to this decision, so does a large part of our user base.
We're talking a huge chunk of professional recording studios and artists
that would rather not be running Windows.

I understand this decision has been made, but with my Ubuntu Studio
Project Leader hat on, I can say that this is an extreme disservice to
our user base and community. If it's possible to reconsider this
decision at this point, I urge you to do so.

Best regards,
Erich Eickmeyer
----
Erich Eickmeyer
Project Leader
Ubuntu Studio

ubuntustudio.org

--
ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
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