Re: Please all favors indicate if LTS and support length

[Philip Muskovac]

Anyone against me answering "Short" for Kubuntu 16.04?

I don't think anyone would want to run the current LTS for more than 2 years (still lots of WIP stuff, even if usable), and I doubt anyone of us will care about 16.04 much in ~2020.

for reference: 14.04 is "Normal"

Philip

Am 18.04.2016 um 13:27 schrieb Stéphane Graber:

Hello,

The request for MATE to be a 3 years LTS reminded us that we need to
know what flavors will be LTS and how long they intend to support it.

The usual supports lengths are:
 - Not LTS (9 months)
 - Short LTS (3 years)
 - Normal LTS (5 years)

Please all flavor leads reply to this e-mail, picking one of those 3
options. Someone on the TB will then review and confirm the request.

This needs to happen very soon as we will need to update Launchpad to
set the right support length on the various packages, which means that
you can't produce final images until this is sorted.

Thanks!

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[Scott Kitterman-3]

FWIW, I think that's prudent.

Scott K

On Monday, April 18, 2016 02:32:52 PM privat wrote:

> Anyone against me answering "Short" for Kubuntu 16.04?
>
> I don't think anyone would want to run the current LTS for more than 2
> years (still lots of WIP stuff, even if usable), and I doubt anyone of
> us will care about 16.04 much in ~2020.
>
> for reference: 14.04 is "Normal"
>
> Philip
>
> Am 18.04.2016 um 13:27 schrieb Stéphane Graber:
> > Hello,
> >
> > The request for MATE to be a 3 years LTS reminded us that we need to
> > know what flavors will be LTS and how long they intend to support it.
> >
> > The usual supports lengths are:
> >   - Not LTS (9 months)
> >   - Short LTS (3 years)
> >   - Normal LTS (5 years)
> >
> > Please all flavor leads reply to this e-mail, picking one of those 3
> > options. Someone on the TB will then review and confirm the request.
> >
> > This needs to happen very soon as we will need to update Launchpad to
> > set the right support length on the various packages, which means that
> > you can't produce final images until this is sorted.
> >
> > Thanks!

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[Clay Weber-2]

Agreed.

On Monday, April 18, 2016 2:22:52 PM EDT Scott Kitterman wrote:

> FWIW, I think that's prudent.
>
> Scott K
>
> On Monday, April 18, 2016 02:32:52 PM privat wrote:
> > Anyone against me answering "Short" for Kubuntu 16.04?
> >
> > I don't think anyone would want to run the current LTS for more than 2
> > years (still lots of WIP stuff, even if usable), and I doubt anyone of
> > us will care about 16.04 much in ~2020.
> >
> > for reference: 14.04 is "Normal"
> >
> > Philip
> >
> > Am 18.04.2016 um 13:27 schrieb Stéphane Graber:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > The request for MATE to be a 3 years LTS reminded us that we need to
> > > know what flavors will be LTS and how long they intend to support it.
> > >
> > > The usual supports lengths are:
> > >   - Not LTS (9 months)
> > >   - Short LTS (3 years)
> > >   - Normal LTS (5 years)
> > >
> > > Please all flavor leads reply to this e-mail, picking one of those 3
> > > options. Someone on the TB will then review and confirm the request.
> > >
> > > This needs to happen very soon as we will need to update Launchpad to
> > > set the right support length on the various packages, which means that
> > > you can't produce final images until this is sorted.
> > >
> > > Thanks!

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[Andree Evers]

I think 5 years good and should remain so.
If the successor LTS version makes problems you have so the possibility
to use the old version until the new LTS version comes.
So that it is possible optionally to skipa version.
3 years is too short so that it would not go.
A LTS version should not go below 4 years Support.

Am 18.04.2016 um 20:37 schrieb Clay Weber:

> Agreed.
>
> On Monday, April 18, 2016 2:22:52 PM EDT Scott Kitterman wrote:
>> FWIW, I think that's prudent.
>>
>> Scott K
>>
>> On Monday, April 18, 2016 02:32:52 PM privat wrote:
>>> Anyone against me answering "Short" for Kubuntu 16.04?
>>>
>>> I don't think anyone would want to run the current LTS for more than 2
>>> years (still lots of WIP stuff, even if usable), and I doubt anyone of
>>> us will care about 16.04 much in ~2020.
>>>
>>> for reference: 14.04 is "Normal"
>>>
>>> Philip
>>>
>>> Am 18.04.2016 um 13:27 schrieb Stéphane Graber:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> The request for MATE to be a 3 years LTS reminded us that we need to
>>>> know what flavors will be LTS and how long they intend to support it.
>>>>
>>>> The usual supports lengths are:
>>>>    - Not LTS (9 months)
>>>>    - Short LTS (3 years)
>>>>    - Normal LTS (5 years)
>>>>
>>>> Please all flavor leads reply to this e-mail, picking one of those 3
>>>> options. Someone on the TB will then review and confirm the request.
>>>>
>>>> This needs to happen very soon as we will need to update Launchpad to
>>>> set the right support length on the various packages, which means that
>>>> you can't produce final images until this is sorted.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>

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[Valorie Zimmerman]

On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 5:32 AM, privat <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Anyone against me answering "Short" for Kubuntu 16.04?
>
> I don't think anyone would want to run the current LTS for more than 2 years
> (still lots of WIP stuff, even if usable), and I doubt anyone of us will
> care about 16.04 much in ~2020.
>
> for reference: 14.04 is "Normal"
>
> Philip
>
> Am 18.04.2016 um 13:27 schrieb Stéphane Graber:
>
> Hello,
>
> The request for MATE to be a 3 years LTS reminded us that we need to
> know what flavors will be LTS and how long they intend to support it.
>
> The usual supports lengths are:
>  - Not LTS (9 months)
>  - Short LTS (3 years)
>  - Normal LTS (5 years)
>
> Please all flavor leads reply to this e-mail, picking one of those 3
> options. Someone on the TB will then review and confirm the request.
>
> This needs to happen very soon as we will need to update Launchpad to
> set the right support length on the various packages, which means that
> you can't produce final images until this is sorted.
>
> Thanks!

I agree that "short" is suitable for this one. Too many last minute,
barely-tested changes. By next LTS, I hope we will have a larger, more
experienced team, which will have more fun, rather than working to
exhaustion.

Three years is still a long time.

Valorie

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[Philip Muskovac]

That is a valid point, but I fear 5 years would simply not work out this
time. Most of the other Ubuntu flavors also go with 3 years of support
guarantee.
If we have more people in 2 years we can go with 5 years for 18.04. But
then "more" also has to mean "dedicated", as we are talking about being
bound to the project for another 5 years, no matter what happens.
The current team does a great job, that's why we're willing to promise 3
years of support for 16.04 while still supporting 14.04 and the usual
short term release, but unless the team size increases, supporting
multiple LTS releases at the same time will not work out in the long run.

Philip

Am 19.04.2016 um 00:34 schrieb Andree Evers:

> I think 5 years good and should remain so.
> If the successor LTS version makes problems you have so the
> possibility to use the old version until the new LTS version comes.
> So that it is possible optionally to skipa version.
> 3 years is too short so that it would not go.
> A LTS version should not go below 4 years Support.
>
> Am 18.04.2016 um 20:37 schrieb Clay Weber:
>> Agreed.
>>
>> On Monday, April 18, 2016 2:22:52 PM EDT Scott Kitterman wrote:
>>> FWIW, I think that's prudent.
>>>
>>> Scott K
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 18, 2016 02:32:52 PM privat wrote:
>>>> Anyone against me answering "Short" for Kubuntu 16.04?
>>>>
>>>> I don't think anyone would want to run the current LTS for more than 2
>>>> years (still lots of WIP stuff, even if usable), and I doubt anyone of
>>>> us will care about 16.04 much in ~2020.
>>>>
>>>> for reference: 14.04 is "Normal"
>>>>
>>>> Philip
>>>>
>>>> Am 18.04.2016 um 13:27 schrieb Stéphane Graber:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> The request for MATE to be a 3 years LTS reminded us that we need to
>>>>> know what flavors will be LTS and how long they intend to support it.
>>>>>
>>>>> The usual supports lengths are:
>>>>>    - Not LTS (9 months)
>>>>>    - Short LTS (3 years)
>>>>>    - Normal LTS (5 years)
>>>>>
>>>>> Please all flavor leads reply to this e-mail, picking one of those 3
>>>>> options. Someone on the TB will then review and confirm the request.
>>>>>
>>>>> This needs to happen very soon as we will need to update Launchpad to
>>>>> set the right support length on the various packages, which means
>>>>> that
>>>>> you can't produce final images until this is sorted.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>
>
>

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[Clive Johnston]

Hi all,

Given that Philip and Scarlett are the current release managers and understand
the release better than anyone, my vote is with them. If it even counts for
anything!

Maybe its because I have been more involved with this release, but it does
feel like there have been some major changes allowed in at the last minute.  
The whole libc6 and MySQL 5.7 transitions being uploaded so close to release
is extremely worrying for me.

Maybe my understanding is still very weak, but if our packages had to be
rebuild for any reason, using libc6 we would be swamped with FTBFS.  At the
moment we just don't have the person power to maintain it, in my opinion.

At this point we need to focus on building up a strong team, not only for
future releases but to maintain older releases and our users who still rely on
them.  I also know that Philip would not make this decision lightly and will
have put a lot of thought into it. So +1 for 3 years.

Clive

On Tuesday, 19 April 2016 11:22:52 BST Philip Muskovac wrote:

> That is a valid point, but I fear 5 years would simply not work out this
> time. Most of the other Ubuntu flavors also go with 3 years of support
> guarantee.
> If we have more people in 2 years we can go with 5 years for 18.04. But
> then "more" also has to mean "dedicated", as we are talking about being
> bound to the project for another 5 years, no matter what happens.
> The current team does a great job, that's why we're willing to promise 3
> years of support for 16.04 while still supporting 14.04 and the usual
> short term release, but unless the team size increases, supporting
> multiple LTS releases at the same time will not work out in the long run.
>
> Philip

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[ovidiub13]

I agree with Philip. For our current manpower we should not overstretch ourselves.

3 years sounds very good. Also, as a + the other flavors are doing the same. I guess Ubuntu is going for 5 years, right? If yes, than, at least for the core, Ubuntu part, we will have a 5 years support.

Anyway, at the rate Plasma and KDE Apps are evolving, staying with a version for too log is not feasible.

În ziua de Tuesday 19 April 2016, la 11:22:52, Philip Muskovac a scris:

> That is a valid point, but I fear 5 years would simply not work out this
> time. Most of the other Ubuntu flavors also go with 3 years of support
> guarantee.
> If we have more people in 2 years we can go with 5 years for 18.04. But
> then "more" also has to mean "dedicated", as we are talking about being
> bound to the project for another 5 years, no matter what happens.
> The current team does a great job, that's why we're willing to promise 3
> years of support for 16.04 while still supporting 14.04 and the usual
> short term release, but unless the team size increases, supporting
> multiple LTS releases at the same time will not work out in the long run.
>
> Philip
>
> Am 19.04.2016 um 00:34 schrieb Andree Evers:
> > I think 5 years good and should remain so.
> > If the successor LTS version makes problems you have so the
> > possibility to use the old version until the new LTS version comes.
> > So that it is possible optionally to skipa version.
> > 3 years is too short so that it would not go.
> > A LTS version should not go below 4 years Support.
> >
> > Am 18.04.2016 um 20:37 schrieb Clay Weber:
> >> Agreed.
> >>
> >> On Monday, April 18, 2016 2:22:52 PM EDT Scott Kitterman wrote:
> >>> FWIW, I think that's prudent.
> >>>
> >>> Scott K
> >>>
> >>> On Monday, April 18, 2016 02:32:52 PM privat wrote:
> >>>> Anyone against me answering "Short" for Kubuntu 16.04?
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't think anyone would want to run the current LTS for more than 2
> >>>> years (still lots of WIP stuff, even if usable), and I doubt anyone of
> >>>> us will care about 16.04 much in ~2020.
> >>>>
> >>>> for reference: 14.04 is "Normal"
> >>>>
> >>>> Philip
> >>>>
> >>>> Am 18.04.2016 um 13:27 schrieb Stéphane Graber:
> >>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The request for MATE to be a 3 years LTS reminded us that we need to
> >>>>> know what flavors will be LTS and how long they intend to support it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The usual supports lengths are:
> >>>>>    - Not LTS (9 months)
> >>>>>    - Short LTS (3 years)
> >>>>>    - Normal LTS (5 years)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Please all flavor leads reply to this e-mail, picking one of those 3
> >>>>> options. Someone on the TB will then review and confirm the request.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This needs to happen very soon as we will need to update Launchpad to
> >>>>> set the right support length on the various packages, which means
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> you can't produce final images until this is sorted.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks!

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