Re: friendly comment: design problem about logout

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Re: friendly comment: design problem about logout

Duncan Lithgow
On Fri, 2006-02-24 at 16:03 +0800, Shu Hung (Koala) wrote:
> Hello,
>  
>  
> Problem, as I think it is
> There are 2 sets of buttons that do all the logout, suspend, hibernate
> job:
>  (1) The "System" menu on the top-left corner
>  (2) The button with door on the top-right corner
>  
I agree that this is a design problem, I've cc'ed this to the
ubuntu-devel list.
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Re: friendly comment: design problem about logout

Manu Cornet-3

Hi !

> > Problem, as I think it is
> > There are 2 sets of buttons that do all the logout, suspend, hibernate
> > job:
> >  (1) The "System" menu on the top-left corner
> >  (2) The button with door on the top-right corner  
> I agree that this is a design problem, I've cc'ed this to the
> ubuntu-devel list.

Eventually, we'll probably only keep the applet (top-right corner) for
new users. For existing users, we're hesitating to leave the menu entry
(in "System") as well so that they can keep doing what they are used to
doing.

Anyway, we're already working on this, but thanks for your comment
anyway :)

Cheers,
Manu


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Re: friendly comment: design problem about logout

Sandis Neilands
Hello Manu!

On 2/24/06, Manu Cornet <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi !
>
> > > Problem, as I think it is
> > > There are 2 sets of buttons that do all the logout, suspend, hibernate
> > > job:
> > >  (1) The "System" menu on the top-left corner
> > >  (2) The button with door on the top-right corner
> > I agree that this is a design problem, I've cc'ed this to the
> > ubuntu-devel list.
>
> Eventually, we'll probably only keep the applet (top-right corner) for
> new users. For existing users, we're hesitating to leave the menu entry
> (in "System") as well so that they can keep doing what they are used to
> doing.
The idea of removing menu item is really bad.
1) Menu item provides useful and immediately available text message.
2) Log out is used so rarely that it can safely live under nice menu,
rather than clutter the panel.
3) It breaks consistency - removing other items from panel is safe,
because they are still under menu (think evo). A lot of users don't
and won't like the log out icon on the corner and they will remove it.
But (surprise, surprise!) when eventually they will try to turn off
their computers they won't find a way how to do it and will file bugs
about missing menu item.

By the way, trash applet suffers from the 3) too. It should live under
places menu and be accessible even if the user removes panel.

If my memory serves me well, you are the author of the new log out
dialog. Don't worry, people will still see your work without
unnecessary panel item.

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Re: logout-icon (was: friendly comment: design problem about logout)

Paul Sladen-2
In reply to this post by Manu Cornet-3
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006, Manu Cornet wrote:
> Eventually, we'll probably only keep the applet (top-right corner)

The top-right corner is the third most accessible location on the screen
(after the point already under the pointer and the bottom-left).  It should
not be wasted on an item that is used once-per-day.  Ideally the 'mute'
volume icon should be moved to the top-right as this is used very frequently
and needs to be quickly accessed when users from things like telephone
calls.

        -Paul
--
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Re: friendly comment: design problem about logout

Manu Cornet-3
In reply to this post by Sandis Neilands


Hi !

Just to be clear about that, I'm not the one who decides where to put
this login item (in the panel, in the menu, or both) at all :) In fact I
would recommend keeping it under "System".

I was just informing you of the possible future. And I was answering an
email that was precisely raising the fact that the set of logout actions
appeared in several places.

> Don't worry, people will still see your work without
> unnecessary panel item.

Don't worry, the number of people seeing my work is really none of my
concern :) I just hope I'm doing useful stuff for the community. (And if
I was concerned about that kind of "popularity", I would be fairly
satisfied, since people open the "Add to panel" dialog pretty often, and
I also made that one) :)

Cheers,
Manu


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Re: logout-icon (was: friendly comment: design problem about logout)

Lex Hider-2
In reply to this post by Paul Sladen-2
On Fri, 2006-02-24 at 12:47 +0000, Paul Sladen wrote:

> On Fri, 24 Feb 2006, Manu Cornet wrote:
> > Eventually, we'll probably only keep the applet (top-right corner)
>
> The top-right corner is the third most accessible location on the screen
> (after the point already under the pointer and the bottom-left).  It should
> not be wasted on an item that is used once-per-day.  Ideally the 'mute'
> volume icon should be moved to the top-right as this is used very frequently
> and needs to be quickly accessed when users from things like telephone
> calls.
>

I agree completely that having the logout button is a waste in this
position. It would be used at most, once per session. Notice that all
the other corner widgets are likely to used many, many times per
session.

Lex.
> -Paul
> --
> Britain is just cold, in a pesky way.  Nottingham, GB
>
>


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Re: logout-icon (was: friendly comment: design problem about logout)

Ben Aldrich
I have to agree that seems to be a waste of space on the panel.

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Re: logout-icon (was: friendly comment: design problem about logout)

George Farris
On Fri, 2006-24-02 at 14:54 -0700, Ben Aldrich wrote:
> I have to agree that seems to be a waste of space on the panel.

Yes this really doesn't need to be there.  I don't think it looks good.
Users are quite capable of using the menus.




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Re: logout-icon (was: friendly comment: design problem about logout)

Dana Olson
On 2/24/06, George Farris <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Fri, 2006-24-02 at 14:54 -0700, Ben Aldrich wrote:
> > I have to agree that seems to be a waste of space on the panel.
>
> Yes this really doesn't need to be there.  I don't think it looks good.
> Users are quite capable of using the menus.


I don't know man... I mean, I can get Ubuntu installed on my system
using a text-based installer, but I haven't yet figured out how to get
those menus to drop down.. Thank goodness for having the icon on the
panel!

I remember trying the LiveCD a while back and there was no logout
button on the panel, so I just powered off my PC.

...

:) I don't even reboot my PCs unless I install a new kernel. Needless
to say, the icon on the panel is useless for me. I don't think it's a
good option to remove it from the dropdown menu. Anyone installing and
using Ubuntu has likely used Windows, so they are used to having to go
into a menu to logout, and that's the first place they will look, I'm
sure. Yes, there is that CTRL+ALT+DEL dialog in Win2K that I liked,
but whatever.

Seriously, you are right; users need to be given more credit than
"clicking a menu is too hard and confusing."

Dana

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Re: logout-icon (was: friendly comment: design problem about logout)

Ben Woosley
In reply to this post by George Farris
George Farris wrote:
> On Fri, 2006-24-02 at 14:54 -0700, Ben Aldrich wrote:
>  
>> I have to agree that seems to be a waste of space on the panel.
>>    
>
> Yes this really doesn't need to be there.  I don't think it looks good.
> Users are quite capable of using the menus.
>  

While I agree that menus are reasonably accessible, I'd say that
logout/shutdown/sleep is a very important option for laptops.  They
often make use of this many more times per day than just once.  The
panel is much more accessible, as it is in the corner, and the menu it
brings up has large buttons.

Personally, I mute/ adjust volume using keyboard shortcuts established
by my computer's manufacturer, which are IMO even more accessible than
any screen position.

I like the new logout/shutdown menu, and I hope it stays in.

-Ben W.

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