Re: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50

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Re: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50

Krzysztof Walo
> Ubuntu's (Gnome's) logoff dialogue is a two-click logoff process (select
> action, click ok), as opposed to the one-click process of Windows XP
> (click action). After watching newbies and elderly people use Ubuntu, I
> can assure you that it makes a difference.
>
> All that really needs to be done is have some reboot, logoff, shutdown,
> etc icons made.
>
> Thoughts?

Hi,

I think icewm's approach is fine. A dialogue with six buttons (Lock
screen, Logout, Restart session, Shut down, Reboot and Cancell). Logoff
dialogue should also appear after hitting Ctrl-Alt-Del.

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Re: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50

Carey O'Shea
On Mon, 2005-11-21 at 12:33 +0100, Krzysztof Walo wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I think icewm's approach is fine. A dialogue with six buttons (Lock
> screen, Logout, Restart session, Shut down, Reboot and Cancell).
> Logoff
> dialogue should also appear after hitting Ctrl-Alt-Del.

I think Windows XP logoff dialogue is better -- it just needs a logoff
button added due to the fact that we handle everything in the one place
rather than separate "logoff" and "shutdown" like Windows.

There is also no need for Lock Screen as it is already in the "System"
menu, and I can't see much use for "Restart Session".

Any ideas for icons?



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Re: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50

Manu Cornet-2


Hello !

> There is also no need for Lock Screen as it is already in the "System"
> menu, and I can't see much use for "Restart Session".
>
> Any ideas for icons?

Just to mention that I am volunteer to do the icon design (in SVG), if
needed, just waiting for a few guidelines on this list, as to what the
icons should look like.

I like the idea, in Win XP, to have different colors for each different
action (red for Shut Down, orange or yellow for Reboot, maybe blue for
Log out ?), what do you think ?

Cheers,
Manu


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Re: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50

Paul M Edwards
On 11/21/05, Manu Cornet <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I like the idea, in Win XP, to have different colors for each different
> action (red for Shut Down, orange or yellow for Reboot, maybe blue for
> Log out ?), what do you think ?


I like that, too.
It's very user-friendly.
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Re: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50

Carey O'Shea
On Mon, 2005-11-21 at 08:56 -0800, Paul M Edwards wrote:
> It's very user-friendly.

Me too. What colour for suspend? What about Hibernate? Purple maybe?



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Re: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50

Carlos Ribeiro
On 11/21/05, Carey O'Shea <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, 2005-11-21 at 08:56 -0800, Paul M Edwards wrote:
> It's very user-friendly.

Me too. What colour for suspend? What about Hibernate? Purple maybe?

Light blue & shaded for hibernate (ice-like effect)...

P.S. this thread reminds me the "a bike shed of any color will do it" syndrom  :-) (or Parkinson's Law according to some). Close to useless but irresistible for the casual reader :-)

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Re: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50

Manu Cornet-2


Hi !

> Light blue & shaded for hibernate (ice-like effect)...

Right, so Red for "Shut Down", Orange for "Reboot", light blue for
"Hibernate", and maybe green for "Log out" ?

In addition, since Win XP's buttons are square shaped, why not make them
round for Ubuntu ? I am still volunteer to do the design, once this
discussion is over :)

Cheers,
Manu


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Re: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50

Ivan Krstic-2
Manu Cornet wrote:
> In addition, since Win XP's buttons are square shaped, why not make them
> round for Ubuntu?

I don't think being different just for the sake of being different is a
particularly worthwhile endeavor, especially since your example breaks
users' UI expectations.

> I am still volunteer to do the design, once this
> discussion is over :)

You might consider creating a mockup or two while the discussion is
still in progress, as UI issues are always easier to discuss when
there's a picture to look at.

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Session icons [was Re: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50]

Manu Cornet-2

Hi !

> I don't think being different just for the sake of being different is a
> particularly worthwhile endeavor,

Right, sorry if I made it sound that way. I simply think round icons
would just look and feel good.

> especially since your example breaks
> users' UI expectations.

Why is that ?

> You might consider creating a mockup or two while the discussion is
> still in progress, as UI issues are always easier to discuss when
> there's a picture to look at.

Sure :) I didn't make a full mockup of the session window since I'm not
sure about what it would look like, but I did make a try at designing
four icons :

        http://www.manucornet.net/GNOME/session_icons/

*These are not yet optimized for their "real size"* (they would be much
smaller), I just believe a bigger size will make the discussion (what
kind of icons should be done) easier for now. Shrinking them to their
real usable size will probably need a few more adjustments.

All right, I am willing to keep working on those until people on this
list are satisfied (at least I hope I'll be able to do that), so don't
hesitate to suggest other things. I made these just to let the
discussion begin.

Cheers,
Manu


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Re: Session icons [was Re: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50]

Corey Burger
On 11/22/05, Manu Cornet <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi !
>
> > I don't think being different just for the sake of being different is a
> > particularly worthwhile endeavor,
>
> Right, sorry if I made it sound that way. I simply think round icons
> would just look and feel good.
>
> > especially since your example breaks
> > users' UI expectations.
>
> Why is that ?
>
> > You might consider creating a mockup or two while the discussion is
> > still in progress, as UI issues are always easier to discuss when
> > there's a picture to look at.
>
> Sure :) I didn't make a full mockup of the session window since I'm not
> sure about what it would look like, but I did make a try at designing
> four icons :
>
>         http://www.manucornet.net/GNOME/session_icons/
>
> *These are not yet optimized for their "real size"* (they would be much
> smaller), I just believe a bigger size will make the discussion (what
> kind of icons should be done) easier for now. Shrinking them to their
> real usable size will probably need a few more adjustments.
>
> All right, I am willing to keep working on those until people on this
> list are satisfied (at least I hope I'll be able to do that), so don't
> hesitate to suggest other things. I made these just to let the
> discussion begin.
>

Manu,

These are great work but I have some concerns:

1. All the icons are the same shape. Here is good exercise when making
icons. Change them to two-tone black and white and then try and use
them

2. They are quite shiny, almost KDE in look. I don't know how they
would work within Gnome.

Userful has a logout icon which I think is a stock Gnome one. It is a
brown door that is slightly ajar. However the feeback on this is that
people don't really know what it is. To qualify that, the icon is also
in a totally non-standard place on the panel.

Corey
Corey

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Re: Session icons [was Re: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50]

Manu Cornet-2

Hi !

> These are great work but I have some concerns:
>
> 1. All the icons are the same shape. Here is good exercise when making
> icons. Change them to two-tone black and white and then try and use
> them

Right. Well, the initial concept is indeed to play on the color more
than on the icon shape (a few people seemed to agree, but maybe that's
not so great an idea ?). For a normal user (I mean, apart from
accessibility issues), wouldn't different colors be as distinguishable
as different shapes ? Of course, in the "High contrast" version of these
icons, we could just delete the round button and just leave the icon
inside, in black.

Or maybe you had something else in mind, what do you suggest ? Again, I
just wanted to start the discussion, I am ready to just start them over
with a completely different idea :)

> 2. They are quite shiny, almost KDE in look. I don't know how they
> would work within Gnome.

I agree, maybe they are a bit too shiny. I could make them look more
like what the "Humility" icon theme looks, which I think is just a
little shiny, but not too much ?

> Userful has a logout icon which I think is a stock Gnome one. It is a
> brown door that is slightly ajar. However the feeback on this is that
> people don't really know what it is. To qualify that, the icon is also
> in a totally non-standard place on the panel.

So you mean that the "door" kind of icon is just not intuitive enough ?
I also thought of a rectangle, with a bit of its right hand side being
cut a little, and an horizontal arrow going to the right. But that is
quite classic. Any other suggestions ?

Cheers,
Manu


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Re: Session icons [was Re: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50]

John Nilsson
In reply to this post by Manu Cornet-2
On Tue, 2005-11-22 at 23:40 +0100, Manu Cornet wrote:
> Sure :) I didn't make a full mockup of the session window since I'm not
> sure about what it would look like, but I did make a try at designing
> four icons :
>
> http://www.manucornet.net/GNOME/session_icons/

Is it a good idea to make buttons that will end your session look like
candy ;-)

Regards,
John


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Re: Session icons [was Re: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50]

Corey Burger
In reply to this post by Manu Cornet-2
On 11/22/05, Manu Cornet <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi !
>
> > These are great work but I have some concerns:
> >
> > 1. All the icons are the same shape. Here is good exercise when making
> > icons. Change them to two-tone black and white and then try and use
> > them
>
> Right. Well, the initial concept is indeed to play on the color more
> than on the icon shape (a few people seemed to agree, but maybe that's
> not so great an idea ?). For a normal user (I mean, apart from
> accessibility issues), wouldn't different colors be as distinguishable
> as different shapes ? Of course, in the "High contrast" version of these
> icons, we could just delete the round button and just leave the icon
> inside, in black.

Even non-disabled people find different shapes easier to grasp. Hence
why icons should always be different shapes.

> I agree, maybe they are a bit too shiny. I could make them look more
> like what the "Humility" icon theme looks, which I think is just a
> little shiny, but not too much ?

The colours might also need some adjusting. I don't know where the
various palettes are, but why not work off the Tango palette?

http://tango-project.org/Tango_Desktop_Project

<snip>

I have only incidental experience with watching people use the Userful
system and have to ask what the logout button does.

Corey

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Re: Session icons [was Re: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50]

Manu Cornet-2

Hi !

I redesigned the "Reboot" icon to match the Tango project style :

        http://www.manucornet.net/GNOME/session_icons/

The idea of different colors remain, but with different shapes as well,
and a slighter shine effect. I believe it would suit GNOME better.

Which version do you guys prefer ? Should I continue in this direction
and try the three others ?

And, huh, should this discussion go on on this list or should I move it
somewhere else ?

Cheers,
Manu


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Re: Session icons [was Re: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50]

Ivan Krstic-2
Manu Cornet wrote:
> Which version do you guys prefer ? Should I continue in this direction
> and try the three others ?

I prefer the Tango style, although I dislike your actual symbol for the
reboot icon. The right-pointing isosceles triangle almost universally
means "play". Some kind of recycle/refresh symbol would be better
suited, I believe.

> And, huh, should this discussion go on on this list or should I move it
> somewhere else ?

This belongs on [hidden email].

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Re: Session icons [was Re: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50]

Jeff Waugh-2
In reply to this post by Manu Cornet-2
<quote who="Manu Cornet">

> And, huh, should this discussion go on on this list or should I move it
> somewhere else ?

You'd be best off taking this to ubuntu-desktop for a start, but one we have
a new logout dialogue patch, we should follow it up (including artwork) with
upstream GNOME.

- Jeff

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Re: Session icons [was Re: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 15, Issue 50]

Sandis Neilands
In reply to this post by Corey Burger
Hi!

I don't think that candy-like winxp icons are needed.
1) They are not consistent with gnome.
2) Without any explanation they are cryptic. The only obvious for me is the red one. But for people who are not familiar with comics or english (like my mom) the zzzzzzz would be hard to figure out. And what does the triangle do?
3) Accessibility issues - I am not an expert in this field, but I suppose that screenreaders would be useless in this particular case. Also I am not sure if the symbols/colours you are using are meaning the same in different cultures/societies.

As for me, I would prefer ordinary gnome buttons with text strings on them.

One other thing - shouldn't this be discussed in ubuntu-art mailing list?
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