Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

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Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

Adam-82
We were just talking about this in IRC and I was advised (sarcastically) to bring my idea forward on the mailing list.  The UWN has stagnated and frankly the form in which it was presented is an out-dated model.  I want to propose we move to a more "social" solution, that allows for more community involvement.  A forum post weekly would be sufficient, but I'm more in favor of a blog-style solution. 

The benefits of the blog style solution are obvious:
  • The news is delivered as it happens, in an editorial format that is interesting to users.
  • Users are able to comment and give feed back on individual editorials
  • Users are able to add to the editorial themselves through a comment solution.
  • RSS allows this "news letter" to be delivered directly to anyone who has subscribed to it.
I'm sure there are other benefits, but those are the obvious.  Potential cons include:
  • Less professional quality of blog (If the editorial format is followed, it will not look like a machine produced the blog, some see this as a plus)
  • infrequent posts
  • opinionated posts (If the editorial format is followed the individual author would be allowed to present the news in a slightly more opinionated format, however it's been shown that people like this kind of thing.  It does have it's downfalls though.
I feel that ideal sites for this would be wordpress or Blogger.com (blogger may be easier to set up).  What do you guys think?

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Re: Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

Corey Burger
On 3/1/07, Adam <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We were just talking about this in IRC and I was advised (sarcastically) to
> bring my idea forward on the mailing list.  The UWN has stagnated and
> frankly the form in which it was presented is an out-dated model.  I want to
> propose we move to a more "social" solution, that allows for more community
> involvement.  A forum post weekly would be sufficient, but I'm more in favor
> of a blog-style solution.
>
> The benefits of the blog style solution are obvious:
>
> The news is delivered as it happens, in an editorial format that is
> interesting to users.
> Users are able to comment and give feed back on individual editorials
> Users are able to add to the editorial themselves through a comment
> solution.
> RSS allows this "news letter" to be delivered directly to anyone who has
> subscribed to it.I'm sure there are other benefits, but those are the
> obvious.  Potential cons include:
>
> Less professional quality of blog (If the editorial format is followed, it
> will not look like a machine produced the blog, some see this as a plus)
> infrequent posts
> opinionated posts (If the editorial format is followed the individual author
> would be allowed to present the news in a slightly more opinionated format,
> however it's been shown that people like this kind of thing.  It does have
> it's downfalls though.
> I feel that ideal sites for this would be wordpress or Blogger.com (blogger
> may be easier to set up).  What do you guys think?

We already have the fridge, so here is a possible idea:

Break up the UWN into discrete bits
Each bit would be like loco news, last weeks packages, etc.
Each bit would be a seperate story on the fridge.

This would mean each bit could be released on a specific day.

Does that work?

Corey

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Re: Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

Aaron Toponce
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Corey Burger wrote:
 > We already have the fridge, so here is a possible idea:

>
> Break up the UWN into discrete bits
> Each bit would be like loco news, last weeks packages, etc.
> Each bit would be a seperate story on the fridge.
>
> This would mean each bit could be released on a specific day.
>
> Does that work?
>
> Corey
>

How does Debian do their weekly news?

- --
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
|Aaron Toponce               _  Join the ASCII Ribbon Campaign |
|OALUG President            ( ) http://www.asciiribbon.org     |
|http://www.aarontoponce.org X  Against HTML e-mail            |
|http://www.oalug.com       / \ Against proprietary attachments|
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Re: Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

Adam-82
In reply to this post by Corey Burger


On 3/1/07, Corey Burger <[hidden email] > wrote:We already have the fridge, so here is a possible idea:

Break up the UWN into discrete bits
Each bit would be like loco news, last weeks packages, etc.
Each bit would be a seperate story on the fridge.

This would mean each bit could be released on a specific day.

Does that work?

Corey


Corey,
              I think you misunderstood what I was talking about.  Yes the fridge is there, and look at the community participation in it.  The articles are short and appear as though they were written by a machine.  I'm talking about more "organic" articles, where you can tell the author is actually a person, with opinions etc.   It's a common trend anymore for companies and organizations to communicate with their community through blogs.  Even Novell's openPR team posts blogs that feel organic, concerning the goings on with the company.  Surely there would be less trouble creating a blog to talk about Ubuntu in the news.  It wouldn't die if the main members disappeared, etc. 



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Re: Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

bapoumba@gmail.com
In reply to this post by Aaron Toponce
On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 12:26 -0700, Aaron Toponce wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA512
>
> Corey Burger wrote:
>  > We already have the fridge, so here is a possible idea:
> >
> > Break up the UWN into discrete bits
> > Each bit would be like loco news, last weeks packages, etc.
> > Each bit would be a seperate story on the fridge.
> >
> > This would mean each bit could be released on a specific day.
> >
> > Does that work?
> >
> > Corey
> >
>
> How does Debian do their weekly news?

Hello,

if you are going to go and change UWN, please remember that it gets
translated and read in several languages. Its evolution should take that
into account.

Cheers,
Isabelle

> - --
> +--------------------------------------------------------------+
> |Aaron Toponce               _  Join the ASCII Ribbon Campaign |
> |OALUG President            ( ) http://www.asciiribbon.org     |
> |http://www.aarontoponce.org X  Against HTML e-mail            |
> |http://www.oalug.com       / \ Against proprietary attachments|
> +--------------------------------------------------------------+
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iQEVAwUBRecozM55Ebf8BAiPAQr/iggAqB7o/aXxaYq9z55JphyGmwz/KDaDKVCC
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> =iphe
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
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Re: Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

Adam-82
Bapoumba
Hello,

if you are going to go and change UWN, please remember that it gets
translated and read in several languages. Its evolution should take that
into account.

Cheers,
Isabelle

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bapoumba,
                  These blogs could be translated, or even written natively by people who speak those other languages.


 



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Re: Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

Corey Burger
In reply to this post by Adam-82
On 3/1/07, Adam <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> On 3/1/07, Corey Burger <[hidden email] > wrote:We already have the
> fridge, so here is a possible idea:
>
> Break up the UWN into discrete bits
> Each bit would be like loco news, last weeks packages, etc.
> Each bit would be a seperate story on the fridge.
>
> This would mean each bit could be released on a specific day.
>
>  Does that work?
>
> Corey
>
>
> Corey,
>               I think you misunderstood what I was talking about.  Yes the
> fridge is there, and look at the community participation in it.  The
> articles are short and appear as though they were written by a machine.  I'm
> talking about more "organic" articles, where you can tell the author is
> actually a person, with opinions etc.   It's a common trend anymore for
> companies and organizations to communicate with their community through
> blogs.  Even Novell's openPR team posts blogs that feel organic, concerning
> the goings on with the company.  Surely there would be less trouble creating
> a blog to talk about Ubuntu in the news.  It wouldn't die if the main
> members disappeared, etc.

There is no reason that the fridge cannot become this. There is
absolutely no reason to create yet another resource.

Corey

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Re: Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

bapoumba@gmail.com
In reply to this post by Adam-82
On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 14:47 -0500, Adam wrote:

>         Bapoumba
>         Hello,
>        
>         if you are going to go and change UWN, please remember that it
>         gets
>         translated and read in several languages. Its evolution should
>         take that
>         into account.
>        
>         Cheers,
>         Isabelle
>        
>         -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Bapoumba,
>                   These blogs could be translated, or even written
> natively by people who speak those other languages.
>
Hey Adam,

in the french translation team, we had been talking about getting some
additional news in translated UWN. News could be related to events in
french-speaking countries for example. We never got to see if it was OK
with UWN team, as UWN#30 got held back for a long time.

So, brainstorming time!

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Re: Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

Corey Burger
In reply to this post by Corey Burger
On 3/1/07, Adam <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> >
> > There is no reason that the fridge cannot become this. There is
> > absolutely no reason to create yet another resource.
> >
> > Corey
>
> Well then, perhaps we should focus our resources on the Fridge as opposed to
> the weekly news letter?   Would the marketing team members need special
> permissions/titles to post on this forum?

Yes, but it is pretty easy to get. Coincidentally, the Fridge mailing
list was having a discussion about how to revive/kickstart the fridge.

As for translations, I propose we do the following:
install a new drupal install, localized, at fr.fridge.ubuntu.com or
es.fridge.ubuntu.com.
translate each story as it is released (smaller stories are also
easier to translate)

Now, I shoudl be clear: I am not fully endorsing the idea of moving
away from the current style of the UWN. I am merely saying this is how
it probably should be structured if it were to change.

Cheers,

Corey

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Re: Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

Adam-82
In reply to this post by bapoumba@gmail.com


Hey Adam,

in the french translation team, we had been talking about getting some
additional news in translated UWN. News could be related to events in
french-speaking countries for example. We never got to see if it was OK
with UWN team, as UWN#30 got held back for a long time.

So, brainstorming time!

--
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I completely agree with the idea that some news is only relevant to the french, etc.  Dividing the news up when it's obvious othe people won't care is a good idea.



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Re: Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

Adam-82
In reply to this post by Corey Burger



Yes, but it is pretty easy to get. Coincidentally, the Fridge mailing
list was having a discussion about how to revive/kickstart the fridge.

As for translations, I propose we do the following:
install a new drupal install, localized, at fr.fridge.ubuntu.com or
es.fridge.ubuntu.com.
translate each story as it is released (smaller stories are also
easier to translate)

Now, I shoudl be clear: I am not fully endorsing the idea of moving
away from the current style of the UWN. I am merely saying this is how
it probably should be structured if it were to change.

Cheers,

Corey





      Ok, well, I'm all for the fridge acting as a blog for the marketing team.  It seems like a good compromise on how to get the fridge going again and get news to people.  If we're doing that though, I feel the UWN is a useless waste of time.

                                                                                                                           , Adam.






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Re: Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

Matthew East
In reply to this post by Corey Burger
Hi,

On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 12:09 -0800, Corey Burger wrote:

> On 3/1/07, Adam <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > There is no reason that the fridge cannot become this. There is
> > > absolutely no reason to create yet another resource.
> > >
> > > Corey
> >
> > Well then, perhaps we should focus our resources on the Fridge as opposed to
> > the weekly news letter?   Would the marketing team members need special
> > permissions/titles to post on this forum?
>
> Yes, but it is pretty easy to get. Coincidentally, the Fridge mailing
> list was having a discussion about how to revive/kickstart the fridge.

I personally think that merging UWN into the Fridge is a bad idea. The
Fridge is a great place for people to contribute substantial articles
and stories, and we definitely need to work on making it easy to
contribute there.

However, not all news items are interesting for the Fridge's userbase.
The vast majority of the UWN is useful for people working *within* the
Ubuntu community to keep in touch with other aspects of the community.
As the community grows, the UWN gets more and more *vital* to ensuring
that the community can keep in touch and avoid fragmenting. For example,
active participants on the Forums can tell us what is happening there,
active participants in the art team can do the same, and so on. We must
not lose that.

So, in sum: the Fridge and the UWN have differing functions, both of
which are essential and shouldn't be lost.

In order to gain contribution to the UWN, I'd suggest making smaller
changes like being more active in encouraging participation, ensuring
that the barrier to contribution is low, etc.

> As for translations, I propose we do the following:
> install a new drupal install, localized, at fr.fridge.ubuntu.com or
> es.fridge.ubuntu.com.
> translate each story as it is released (smaller stories are also
> easier to translate)

Generally translations are encouraged to be done on the various local
sites. So for documentation, websites and other translations, we
encourage the loco teams to present translations on their own websites.
While that continues to be the case, we should do the same with news.

For example, the Italian team publishes significant news items on its
website and also publishes a weekly news with both international and
Italian specific news, which has very much its own style and flavour.

Matt
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Re: Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

Lionel Porcheron
Hi all,

On jeu, 2007-03-01 at 20:47 +0000, Matthew East wrote:

> However, not all news items are interesting for the Fridge's userbase.
> The vast majority of the UWN is useful for people working *within* the
> Ubuntu community to keep in touch with other aspects of the community.
> As the community grows, the UWN gets more and more *vital* to ensuring
> that the community can keep in touch and avoid fragmenting. For example,
> active participants on the Forums can tell us what is happening there,
> active participants in the art team can do the same, and so on. We must
> not lose that.

I see another aspect of the UWN. The French translation of the UWN is
distributed as:
- a mail on the French users mailing list
- a topic on the French forum
- an article on the French planet

At least the two first media, permit people who does not follow the
Ubuntu actuality (by not subscribing to any planet, any blog) to be
informed on what's going on in Ubuntu. They are not involved in the
Ubuntu community, but they are happy to know what's new. We have had a
lot of good feed back for the posts on the French users mailing list.

With the UWN we *push* informations to users, he does not have to pull
it.

>
> So, in sum: the Fridge and the UWN have differing functions, both of
> which are essential and shouldn't be lost.

I can not agree more :-).

I think there were good ideas for lightening the UWN process in this
thread, I would not like this newsletter to be lost, for me, and for the
users. I would be glad to help.

Cheers,

Lionel



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Re: Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

Matthew Revell-4
In reply to this post by Adam-82
Hey Adam,

On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 14:17 -0500, Adam wrote:
> We were just talking about this in IRC and I was advised
> (sarcastically) to bring my idea forward on the mailing list.  The UWN
> has stagnated and frankly the form in which it was presented is an
> out-dated model.

I think it would be a shame to lose UWN because we feel its delivery
method isn't fashionable. If we feel its content can be better handled,
say as ad-hoc posts, then that's certainly a good discussion to have.

>   I want to propose we move to a more "social" solution, that allows
> for more community involvement.  A forum post weekly would be
> sufficient, but I'm more in favor of a blog-style solution.  

I'm not sure what you mean by a more social solution. UWN is edited on a
wiki - the most collaborative way possible, without getting into real
time collaborative editing. I think replacing UWN by email with a forum
post would be a mistake. UWN is currently pushed to people, a forum post
requires people to go find it.

> The benefits of the blog style solution are obvious:
>       * The news is delivered as it happens, in an editorial format
>         that is interesting to users.
>       * Users are able to comment and give feed back on individual
>         editorials
>       * Users are able to add to the editorial themselves through a
>         comment solution.
>       * RSS allows this "news letter" to be delivered directly to
>         anyone who has subscribed to it.

I think this is more an argument to rethink The Fridge, than to ditch
UWN. I've been out of touch lately, but I'm willing to bet there'd be a
fair bit of support for integrating The Fridge fully with the marketing
team. That way, The Fridge isn't at the mercy of an exclusive coterie of
editors.

UWN, however it's delivered, can still have a place, I think. Some
people may not want to track a blog but enjoy receiving a weekly digest.
It's good to work out why UWN exists and who its for.

> I feel that ideal sites for this would be wordpress or Blogger.com
> (blogger may be easier to set up).  What do you guys think?

As others have said, we don't need another site. Let's make the most of
what we have. Let's have a debate about what the Fridge is for, what UWN
is for and how we should move them forward.

I've been concentrating on Launchpad for the past few months, so I've
neglected the Fridge lately. It's an important barometer of the Ubuntu
community, though, and we shouldn't let it go through these
active-fallow cycles.

So, if the marketing team does take over the Fridge, we'd need to work
out how to decide who gets to be an editor, etc and what content we want
it to have. Once that's sorted, it's just a matter of switching
discussion to this list, rather than the close fridge-devel list.

Any thoughts?

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Re: Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

Adam-82


I'm not sure what you mean by a more social solution. UWN is edited on a
wiki - the most collaborative way possible, without getting into real
time collaborative editing. I think replacing UWN by email with a forum
post would be a mistake. UWN is currently pushed to people, a forum post
requires people to go find it.

 I don't mean social as in collaborative, I'm sorry for the confusion.  I meant social as in allowing for user feedback and discussion.

I think this is more an argument to rethink The Fridge, than to ditch
UWN. I've been out of touch lately, but I'm willing to bet there'd be a
fair bit of support for integrating The Fridge fully with the marketing
team. That way, The Fridge isn't at the mercy of an exclusive coterie of
editors.

 I would support this, if we were allowed to post editorial style posts concerning the news.

UWN, however it's delivered, can still have a place, I think. Some
people may not want to track a blog but enjoy receiving a weekly digest.
It's good to work out why UWN exists and who its for.

As others have said, we don't need another site. Let's make the most of
what we have. Let's have a debate about what the Fridge is for, what UWN
is for and how we should move them forward.

I'm sure creating a weekly digest of posts from the fridge would hardly be difficult. 

So, if the marketing team does take over the Fridge, we'd need to work
out how to decide who gets to be an editor, etc and what content we want
it to have. Once that's sorted, it's just a matter of switching
discussion to this list, rather than the close fridge-devel list.

Any thoughts?

Anyone who shows the ability to write a decent article should be allowed to write for the fridge.  If need be posts to the fridge could require moderation from a specific group before they were allowed to go public.  This would ensure "quality control".  Anyone who maintains a decent blog is probably a good candidate for writing for the fridge in this fashion.

                                                                                                   - Adam.


 



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Re: Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

Toby Smithe
In reply to this post by Matthew Revell-4
On Fri, 2007-03-02 at 18:11 +0000, Matthew Revell wrote:
> I'm not sure what you mean by a more social solution. UWN is edited on a
> wiki - the most collaborative way possible, without getting into real
> time collaborative editing. I think replacing UWN by email with a forum
> post would be a mistake. UWN is currently pushed to people, a forum post
> requires people to go find it.

Just an FYI that UWN does have large amount of realtime collaborative
editing using Gobby.

>
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Re: Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

mwimmer@mindspin.de

> Just an FYI that UWN does have large amount of realtime collaborative
> editing using Gobby.
>
but not for those using ubuntu 6.06 LTS

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Re: Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

Melissa Draper
[hidden email] wrote:
>> Just an FYI that UWN does have large amount of realtime collaborative
>> editing using Gobby.
>>
>>    
> but not for those using ubuntu 6.06 LTS
>
>  
afaik this is still possible if you get the edgy version from
packages.ubuntu.com

does anyone know if this has been backported or not, or if it was ever
suggested for such?

--
Sincerely
Melissa Draper

http://www.meldraweb.com

Phone: 0404 595 395
(intl): +61 404 595 395

P.O Box 1412
Lavington, NSW 2641

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Re: Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

Dennis Kaarsemaker
On za, 2007-03-03 at 21:47 +1100, Melissa Draper wrote:

> does anyone know if this has been backported or not, or if it was ever
> suggested for such?

http://media.ubuntu-nl.org/obby/
--
Dennis K.

Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so.

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Re: Replace the UWN with something a little more "Social"?

Dennis Kaarsemaker-2
In reply to this post by Melissa Draper
On za, 2007-03-03 at 21:47 +1100, Melissa Draper wrote:

> does anyone know if this has been backported or not, or if it was ever
> suggested for such?

http://media.ubuntu-nl.org/
--
Dennis K.

Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so.

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