Second monitor

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Second monitor

Peter Flynn
I have a Dell XPS desktop and my regular monitor is connected via the
HDMI socket.

I want to set up a second monitor in *portrait* mode — I do a lot of
publishing work, so having a display I can show a full page on the right
way up would be useful.

I have an unused second screen with DVI and VGA ports, and the desktop
has a DVI port.

Before I rush out and buy cable, can I connect this second screen using
the DVI ports this way, and if so, will Ubuntu 18 detect it (or can I
configure it in the X settings) so I can export DISPLAY=:1 or whatever,
and then issue an xrandr -o left command or use some utility to rotate
the second monitor image.

If that's possible, what would I need to do to force a program (eg
okular) to display its image full-screen on the second monitor?

P

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Re: Second monitor

Peter Flynn
On 27/12/2018 17:56, Peter Flynn wrote:
> I want to set up a second monitor in *portrait* mode

I'm sorry, I should have added that there is NO requirement for the
second monitor to share a contiguous desktop with the regular monitor. I
don't need to slide windows between monitors.

If that's how it works, then that's fine, but it is not a requirement.

P

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Re: Second monitor

Bret Busby-2
In reply to this post by Peter Flynn
On 28/12/2018, Peter Flynn <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have a Dell XPS desktop and my regular monitor is connected via the
> HDMI socket.
>
> I want to set up a second monitor in *portrait* mode — I do a lot of
> publishing work, so having a display I can show a full page on the right
> way up would be useful.
>
> I have an unused second screen with DVI and VGA ports, and the desktop
> has a DVI port.
>
> Before I rush out and buy cable, can I connect this second screen using
> the DVI ports this way, and if so, will Ubuntu 18 detect it (or can I
> configure it in the X settings) so I can export DISPLAY=:1 or whatever,
> and then issue an xrandr -o left command or use some utility to rotate
> the second monitor image.
>
> If that's possible, what would I need to do to force a program (eg
> okular) to display its image full-screen on the second monitor?
>
> P
>
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It is probably not the solution that you want, but I am wondering
whether, on the premise that your primary screen is a widescreen
monitor, at least 24", your desktop publishing application can not
display two A4 pages side by side, and, if so, whether that would
provide what you want; possibly getting a single widescreen monitor,
that is bigger than 24" - possibly, 32", and, displaying two pages, in
portrait profile, side by side.

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Re: Second monitor

Paul Smith-2
In reply to this post by Peter Flynn
On Thu, 2018-12-27 at 17:56 +0000, Peter Flynn wrote:
> Before I rush out and buy cable, can I connect this second screen using
> the DVI ports this way, and if so, will Ubuntu 18 detect it (or can I
> configure it in the X settings) so I can export DISPLAY=:1 or whatever,
> and then issue an xrandr -o left command or use some utility to rotate
> the second monitor image.

I can't say whether your hardware can be connected that way: it would
require knowing about your video card, motherboard, etc.

However assuming that the hardware works, Ubuntu should have no trouble
with it.  I'm assuming you're using straight Ubuntu Gnome, I have no
experience with Mate, KDE, etc.  I also only use X, not Wayland, but I
suppose both should work.

All you have to do is open Settings and choose Devices then Displays.
You will see your multiple displays and you can choose which one is the
"primary" display (has the panel etc.), drag them to the left/right so
they're on the correct side, and change their orientation between
landscape and portrait.  Your mouse will move between them and windows
can be dragged between them.

As far as I know there is zero need to muck about with different
DISPLAY values, run xrandr by hand, or any of that other stuff,
anymore.

I move my laptop between standalone and hooked to a docking station
with two external monitors, all the time and it's no problem.


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Re: Second monitor

Karl Auer
In reply to this post by Peter Flynn
On Thu, 2018-12-27 at 17:56 +0000, Peter Flynn wrote:
> I want to set up a second monitor in *portrait* mode — I do a lot of 
> publishing work, so having a display I can show a full page on the
> right way up would be useful.

The standard display utility supports screen rotation, at least in
16.04 which I am running. I just tested it and it happily rotated my
screen into portrait mode by rotating it once either clockwise or
anticlockwise.

> Before I rush out and buy cable, can I connect this second screen
> using the DVI ports this way

I'm pretty sure it's nothing to do with the cables. I've only tried it
myself an HDMI-connected second monitor.

> If that's possible, what would I need to do to force a program (eg 
> okular) to display its image full-screen on the second monitor?

I don't think you have to anything. Your programs will just work. But
you will have to physically turn the actual monitor through 90 degrees
to match the rotation you applied in the display utility.

Good luck :-)

Regards, K.

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Re: Second monitor

Peter Flynn
In reply to this post by Bret Busby-2
On 27/12/2018 21:59, Bret Busby wrote:
[...]
> It is probably not the solution that you want, but I am wondering
> whether, on the premise that your primary screen is a widescreen
> monitor, at least 24", your desktop publishing application can not
> display two A4 pages side by side,

It certainly can, and I would still use it for showing a double-page
spread. The pages would be 11" high (normal size), which is fine.

But for checking the fine detail of typography, I want to make use of
the 20" rotated monitor, which will give me a page 17" high, avoiding
the need to zoom (much).

That would also work, but the work of checking double-page spreads
doesn't require the same level of magnification.

On 27/12/2018 22:21, Paul Smith wrote:
> I can't say whether your hardware can be connected that way: it
> would require knowing about your video card, motherboard, etc.

Which I'll have to dig into (I inherited this machine, so the spec isn't
mine, but it's Dell so in theory I can look it all up with the tag number).

> However assuming that the hardware works, Ubuntu should have no
> trouble with it.  I'm assuming you're using straight Ubuntu Gnome, I
> have no experience with Mate, KDE, etc.  I also only use X, not
> Wayland, but I suppose both should work.

Certainly Ubuntu or a derivative, and certainly X. Right now it's
running Mint 19 with Enlightenment, which is standard in our labs.
>
> All you have to do is open Settings and choose Devices then
> Displays. You will see your multiple displays and you can choose
> which one is the "primary" display (has the panel etc.), drag them to
> the left/right so they're on the correct side, and change their
> orientation between landscape and portrait.  Your mouse will move
> between them and windows can be dragged between them.

I was hoping someone would say this :-) I'm getting cables tomorrow.
I've watched other people do it, but that was always for workstations
where they wanted two identical monitors side-by-side operating as a
contiguous desktop, so windows could be slid between monitors. I've
never seen it done with one monitor in landscape and one in portrait.

> As far as I know there is zero need to muck about with different
> DISPLAY values, run xrandr by hand, or any of that other stuff,
> anymore.

Cool.

> I move my laptop between standalone and hooked to a docking station
> with two external monitors, all the time and it's no problem.

Yes, that's commonplace. But not with one portrait and the other
landscape :-)

On 27/12/2018 22:43, Karl Auer wrote:
> The standard display utility supports screen rotation, at least in
> 16.04 which I am running. I just tested it and it happily rotated my
> screen into portrait mode by rotating it once either clockwise or
> anticlockwise.

Yes, I've done this with a single monitor.

> I don't think you have to anything. Your programs will just work.
> But you will have to physically turn the actual monitor through 90
> degrees to match the rotation you applied in the display utility.

That was the easy bit :-) I unclipped the stand, sawed a new cutout in
the plastic cover of the fixing plate, drilled four holes in the fixing
plate itself so I could remount the stand at 90°, and then reattached it
and clipped it back in.

Thank you all for your help.

P

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Re: Second monitor

Karl Auer
On Thu, 2018-12-27 at 23:36 +0000, Peter Flynn wrote:
> On 27/12/2018 22:43, Karl Auer wrote:
> > The standard display utility supports screen rotation, at least in 
> > 16.04 which I am running. I just tested it and it happily rotated
> > my screen into portrait mode by rotating it once either clockwise
> > or anticlockwise.
> Yes, I've done this with a single monitor.

You misunderstand - I tested with a second monitor, attached via HDMI.
Only the second monitor image rotated.

> That was the easy bit :-) I unclipped the stand, sawed a new cutout
> in the plastic cover of the fixing plate, drilled four holes in the
> fixing plate itself so I could remount the stand at 90°, and then
> reattached it and clipped it back in.

This is clearly some new definition of "easy" that I am unfamiliar with
:-)

Regards, K.

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Re: Second monitor

Doug McGarrett

On 12/27/2018 07:18 PM, Karl Auer wrote:

> On Thu, 2018-12-27 at 23:36 +0000, Peter Flynn wrote:
>> On 27/12/2018 22:43, Karl Auer wrote:
>>> The standard display utility supports screen rotation, at least in
>>> 16.04 which I am running. I just tested it and it happily rotated
>>> my screen into portrait mode by rotating it once either clockwise
>>> or anticlockwise.
>> Yes, I've done this with a single monitor.
> You misunderstand - I tested with a second monitor, attached via HDMI.
> Only the second monitor image rotated.
>
>> That was the easy bit :-) I unclipped the stand, sawed a new cutout
>> in the plastic cover of the fixing plate, drilled four holes in the
>> fixing plate itself so I could remount the stand at 90°, and then
>> reattached it and clipped it back in.
> This is clearly some new definition of "easy" that I am unfamiliar with
> :-)
>
> Regards, K.
>
I own a Panasonic VP930B 19" monitor which is designed to work in either
landscape or portrait mode. I bought it to do just what the op wants,
but I never did that, because:

1: I never figured out how to make the computer do that, and

2: I don't have room for two monitors on one computer, altho this
VP930B, rotates, so you could use just the one

3: I now have a 27" monitor and it's "good enough" for what little
editing I do anymore

SO, anyone who lives on Long Island, NY, (Suffolk County) and could make
use of it, may have it for free. Write to (dmcgarrett) (at) (optonline)  
(dot)  (net) for further information

I will not ship.

--doug


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Re: Second monitor

Peter Flynn
In reply to this post by Karl Auer
On 28/12/2018 00:18, Karl Auer wrote:
>> Yes, I've done this with a single monitor.
> You misunderstand - I tested with a second monitor, attached via HDMI.
> Only the second monitor image rotated.

Oops, sorry. OK, thanks.

>> That was the easy bit :-) I unclipped the stand, sawed a new cutout
>> in the plastic cover of the fixing plate, drilled four holes in the
>> fixing plate itself so I could remount the stand at 90°, and then
>> reattached it and clipped it back in.
>
> This is clearly some new definition of "easy" that I am unfamiliar with
> :-)

No srsly. Took about 30 mins. But I do have a workshop and tools.

On 28/12/2018 02:44, Doug wrote:
[...]> I own a Panasonic VP930B 19" monitor which is designed to work in
> either landscape or portrait mode.

I had a swivel-mounted one in a previous office. Very nice.

> I bought it to do just what the op wants, but I never did that, because:
> 1: I never figured out how to make the computer do that, and
> 2: I don't have room for two monitors on one computer, altho this
>    VP930B, rotates, so you could use just the one

I did try that once, but it means rearranging all the apps on all the
desktops every time you flip. I think it's possible to specify their X
geometry so that they would be in the right place, but it's easier to
use two monitors.

> SO, anyone who lives on Long Island, NY, [...]

Which, like Boston, is popularly said to be "just the next parish" from
here (Ireland) but there's an inconvenient ocean in the way :-)

P

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Re: Second monitor

Paul Smith-2
In reply to this post by Peter Flynn
On Thu, 2018-12-27 at 23:36 +0000, Peter Flynn wrote:
> > However assuming that the hardware works, Ubuntu should have no
> > trouble with it.  I'm assuming you're using straight Ubuntu Gnome,
> > I have no experience with Mate, KDE, etc.  I also only use X, not
> > Wayland, but I suppose both should work.
>
> Certainly Ubuntu or a derivative, and certainly X. Right now it's
> running Mint 19 with Enlightenment, which is standard in our labs.

Just to be clear, Mint 19 with Enlightenment is not in any way the same
as GNOME.  I cannot be sure that your system will work easily in this
confuguration; I only claim that it will work fine in GNOME.


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Re: Second monitor

Peter Flynn
On 28/12/2018 16:32, Paul Smith wrote:
> Just to be clear, Mint 19 with Enlightenment is not in any way the
> same as GNOME.

That's why we use it :-)

> I cannot be sure that your system will work easily in this
> configuration; I only claim that it will work fine in GNOME.

That's fine, thanks; Enlightenment is nothing if not configurable...

P

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Re: Second monitor

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Peter Flynn
On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 at 18:59, Peter Flynn <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have an unused second screen with DVI and VGA ports, and the desktop
> has a DVI port.

You don't specify your GPU, but on almost all modern PCs, yes, this is trivial.

Turn off the PC, attach the 2nd screen in your preferred orientation,
turn on the PC. Both screens should come up as parts of 1 big desktop.
Set the landscape screen as the primary one. Set the 2nd screen as
rotated 90º left or right as appropriate.

Done.

I have done this on XFCE, Cinnamon, KDE 5, GNOME 3 and Ubuntu Unity.
Works fine. Not all desktops handle 2 screens well -- KDE is poor,
GNOME is awful, Cinnamon is minimal but functional. XFCE and Unity are
best at it, as at most things, IMHO.


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Re: Second monitor

Peter Flynn
On 29/12/2018 20:18, Liam Proven wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 at 18:59, Peter Flynn <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I have an unused second screen with DVI and VGA ports, and the desktop
>> has a DVI port.
>
> You don't specify your GPU, but on almost all modern PCs, yes, this is trivial.

It's whatever comes on a Dell XPS.

Yes, almost trivial. Just that I hadn't done it for well over a decade.

> Turn off the PC, attach the 2nd screen in your preferred orientation,
> turn on the PC. Both screens should come up as parts of 1 big desktop.
> Set the landscape screen as the primary one. Set the 2nd screen as
> rotated 90º left or right as appropriate.

Nearly :-) The settings needed adjusting so that the landscape monitor
abutted the portrait monitor with their baselines level in the little
display adjuster window of the settings applet. Otherwise the portrait
monitor distorted its vertical resolution.

> I have done this on XFCE, Cinnamon, KDE 5, GNOME 3 and Ubuntu Unity.
> Works fine. Not all desktops handle 2 screens well -- KDE is poor,
> GNOME is awful, Cinnamon is minimal but functional. XFCE and Unity are
> best at it, as at most things, IMHO.

This is Cinnamon and it seems to be fine now, thank you all for your
help. Enlightenment SIGSEGVs at the moment, but that's probably just a
setting.

P

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Re: Second monitor

Liam Proven
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 at 21:39, Peter Flynn <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> It's whatever comes on a Dell XPS.

I think there is, or have been, quite a variety with different models.

> Yes, almost trivial. Just that I hadn't done it for well over a decade.

It's easier than it used to be.

In the very early days of Ubuntu, circa 4.10 - 5.x and maybe 6.x, I
used to keep SUSE around just for the screen setup tools. Ubuntu
assumed it could auto-detect it all and it couldn't. So I configured
my 2 Matrox cards with SUSE SAX then copied my /etc/X.11/xorg.conf
file over to Ubuntu's root filesystem.

Worked a treat.

But now it's normally easy.

> Nearly :-) The settings needed adjusting so that the landscape monitor
> abutted the portrait monitor with their baselines level in the little
> display adjuster window of the settings applet. Otherwise the portrait
> monitor distorted its vertical resolution.

Ah, yes. On LXQt I had to run a command to move the portrait screen to
the right of the main one, otherwise they overlapped and could not be
separated. May be something similar.

> This is Cinnamon and it seems to be fine now, thank you all for your
> help. Enlightenment SIGSEGVs at the moment, but that's probably just a
> setting.

Oh dear...

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