Shall we drop i386 / 32-bit? If you think no, please test

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Shall we drop i386 / 32-bit? If you think no, please test

Valorie Zimmerman
Hello folks, Art Alpha 1 is released today: release notes:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/Alpha1/Kubuntu

Please report test results here:
http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/378/builds

If we don't get complete test coverage on the i386 test cases, I think
we should drop it now. the KCI doesn't build the images, we get no
questions about 32-bit any more, and it is in general a pain to
support.

Is there any reason to keep it?

Valorie

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Re: Shall we drop i386 / 32-bit? If you think no, please test

Clay Weber-2
The lack of testers, the lack of bug reports, and the lack of response here seem to indicate that i386 users in our community are a rather tiny group. One that is likely shrinking even more.

The short lifespans of non-LTS releases do not help, either. Perhaps dropping support now may  be the best time to pull the plug.On Jun 29, 2017 4:33 PM, Valorie Zimmerman <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hello folks, Art Alpha 1 is released today: release notes:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/Alpha1/Kubuntu 
>
> Please report test results here:
> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/378/builds 
>
> If we don't get complete test coverage on the i386 test cases, I think
> we should drop it now. the KCI doesn't build the images, we get no
> questions about 32-bit any more, and it is in general a pain to
> support.
>
> Is there any reason to keep it?
>
> Valorie
>
> --
> http://about.me/valoriez 
>
> --
> kubuntu-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users 
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Re: Shall we drop i386 / 32-bit? If you think no, please test

Aaron Honeycutt-2
In reply to this post by Valorie Zimmerman
It's not a measure of users, we can't reason something if we don't get enough testers to confirm the quality of the software.

On Jun 30, 2017 7:17 PM, "Ferry Toth" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Op Fri, 30 Jun 2017 06:55:42 -0400, schreef Clay Weber:

> The lack of testers, the lack of bug reports, and the lack of response
> here seem to indicate that i386 users in our community are a rather tiny
> group. One that is likely shrinking even more.

My mother uses i386. But she doesn't read this list. And I doubt she
would be able to help testing or write bug reports. She is 76 years old.

I don't thing lack of testers or bug reports is a good measure for lack
of users. There must be a better way, like counting downloads of a
specific package (i386 vs ams64).

Don't forget kubuntu is likely to be installed on older machines as a
replacement of WinXP and many are i386.

> The short lifespans of non-LTS releases do not help, either. Perhaps
> dropping support now may  be the best time to pull the plug.On Jun 29,
> 2017 4:33 PM, Valorie Zimmerman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hello folks, Art Alpha 1 is released today: release notes:
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/Alpha1/Kubuntu
>>
>> Please report test results here:
>> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/378/builds
>>
>> If we don't get complete test coverage on the i386 test cases, I think
>> we should drop it now. the KCI doesn't build the images, we get no
>> questions about 32-bit any more, and it is in general a pain to
>> support.
>>
>> Is there any reason to keep it?
>>
>> Valorie
>>
>> --
>> http://about.me/valoriez
>>
>> --
>> kubuntu-users mailing list [hidden email] Modify
>> settings or unsubscribe at:
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users



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Re: Shall we drop i386 / 32-bit? If you think no, please test

David Lang
so what testing is needed? is it just "run it and report bugs" (i.e., "it works
for me")

or is there some objective way to perform tests and quantify the result?

David Lang

On Fri, 30 Jun 2017, Aaron Honeycutt wrote:

> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 20:05:39 -0400
> From: Aaron Honeycutt <[hidden email]>
> Reply-To: Kubuntu user technical support <[hidden email]>
> To: Kubuntu user technical support <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Kubuntu Developer Discussion <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Shall we drop i386 / 32-bit? If you think no, please test
>
> It's not a measure of users, we can't reason something if we don't get
> enough testers to confirm the quality of the software.
>
> On Jun 30, 2017 7:17 PM, "Ferry Toth" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Op Fri, 30 Jun 2017 06:55:42 -0400, schreef Clay Weber:
>>
>>> The lack of testers, the lack of bug reports, and the lack of response
>>> here seem to indicate that i386 users in our community are a rather tiny
>>> group. One that is likely shrinking even more.
>>
>> My mother uses i386. But she doesn't read this list. And I doubt she
>> would be able to help testing or write bug reports. She is 76 years old.
>>
>> I don't thing lack of testers or bug reports is a good measure for lack
>> of users. There must be a better way, like counting downloads of a
>> specific package (i386 vs ams64).
>>
>> Don't forget kubuntu is likely to be installed on older machines as a
>> replacement of WinXP and many are i386.
>>
>>> The short lifespans of non-LTS releases do not help, either. Perhaps
>>> dropping support now may  be the best time to pull the plug.On Jun 29,
>>> 2017 4:33 PM, Valorie Zimmerman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello folks, Art Alpha 1 is released today: release notes:
>>>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/Alpha1/Kubuntu
>>>>
>>>> Please report test results here:
>>>> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/378/builds
>>>>
>>>> If we don't get complete test coverage on the i386 test cases, I think
>>>> we should drop it now. the KCI doesn't build the images, we get no
>>>> questions about 32-bit any more, and it is in general a pain to
>>>> support.
>>>>
>>>> Is there any reason to keep it?
>>>>
>>>> Valorie
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> http://about.me/valoriez
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> kubuntu-users mailing list [hidden email] Modify
>>>> settings or unsubscribe at:
>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> kubuntu-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/
>> mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users
>>
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Re: Shall we drop i386 / 32-bit? If you think no, please test

Aaron Honeycutt-2
The original email has the link to the 64 bit builds but it works the same for 32 bit but those will have to wait till Alpha 2 now.

On Jun 30, 2017 8:17 PM, "David Lang" <[hidden email]> wrote:
so what testing is needed? is it just "run it and report bugs" (i.e., "it works for me")

or is there some objective way to perform tests and quantify the result?

David Lang

On Fri, 30 Jun 2017, Aaron Honeycutt wrote:

Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 20:05:39 -0400
From: Aaron Honeycutt <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: Kubuntu user technical support <[hidden email]>
To: Kubuntu user technical support <[hidden email]>
Cc: Kubuntu Developer Discussion <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: Shall we drop i386 / 32-bit? If you think no, please test

It's not a measure of users, we can't reason something if we don't get
enough testers to confirm the quality of the software.

On Jun 30, 2017 7:17 PM, "Ferry Toth" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Op Fri, 30 Jun 2017 06:55:42 -0400, schreef Clay Weber:

The lack of testers, the lack of bug reports, and the lack of response
here seem to indicate that i386 users in our community are a rather tiny
group. One that is likely shrinking even more.

My mother uses i386. But she doesn't read this list. And I doubt she
would be able to help testing or write bug reports. She is 76 years old.

I don't thing lack of testers or bug reports is a good measure for lack
of users. There must be a better way, like counting downloads of a
specific package (i386 vs ams64).

Don't forget kubuntu is likely to be installed on older machines as a
replacement of WinXP and many are i386.

The short lifespans of non-LTS releases do not help, either. Perhaps
dropping support now may  be the best time to pull the plug.On Jun 29,
2017 4:33 PM, Valorie Zimmerman <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello folks, Art Alpha 1 is released today: release notes:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/Alpha1/Kubuntu

Please report test results here:
http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/378/builds

If we don't get complete test coverage on the i386 test cases, I think
we should drop it now. the KCI doesn't build the images, we get no
questions about 32-bit any more, and it is in general a pain to
support.

Is there any reason to keep it?

Valorie

--
http://about.me/valoriez

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settings or unsubscribe at:
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Re: Shall we drop i386 / 32-bit? If you think no, please test

Ferry Toth
In reply to this post by Aaron Honeycutt-2
Op Fri, 30 Jun 2017 20:05:39 -0400, schreef Aaron Honeycutt:

> It's not a measure of users, we can't reason something if we don't get
> enough testers to confirm the quality of the software.

I get that.

However, quoting Valori: "Nor do I have the time to personally
do the testing for a build I do not and probably never will use."

This should raise the question: why build something for a certain
platform:
a) because we can
b) because we want to use it our self
c) because there are testers available
d) because there are a significant amount of existing users
e) because there are a significant amount of potential new users

Speaking for my self as a developer I am driven often by a) and b),
however being a business man as well, I find d) and e) the only drivers
sustainable on the long run. In some exceptional cases a) leads to e),
those are the ones that make me happy to be an engineer.

But c).. is not a goal, nor a driver. Not having enough testers is a
problem, and problems need to be solved.

To me, I would like to help testing. But I don't want to break my
production systems. Testing inside a virtual machine is not very useful
except maybe for installers, as then everybody tests on the same platform.

Maybe what we need is a test plan, and possibly test automation, like a
instrumented live iso. If that could select tests based on the platform
to get maximum test coverage without unnecessarily duplicating already
tested cases, I'm sure more people would participate.

> On Jun 30, 2017 7:17 PM, "Ferry Toth" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Op Fri, 30 Jun 2017 06:55:42 -0400, schreef Clay Weber:
>>
>> > The lack of testers, the lack of bug reports, and the lack of
>> > response here seem to indicate that i386 users in our community are a
>> > rather tiny group. One that is likely shrinking even more.
>>
>> My mother uses i386. But she doesn't read this list. And I doubt she
>> would be able to help testing or write bug reports. She is 76 years
>> old.
>>
>> I don't thing lack of testers or bug reports is a good measure for lack
>> of users. There must be a better way, like counting downloads of a
>> specific package (i386 vs ams64).
>>
>> Don't forget kubuntu is likely to be installed on older machines as a
>> replacement of WinXP and many are i386.
>>
>> > The short lifespans of non-LTS releases do not help, either. Perhaps
>> > dropping support now may  be the best time to pull the plug.On Jun
>> > 29, 2017 4:33 PM, Valorie Zimmerman <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hello folks, Art Alpha 1 is released today: release notes:
>> >> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/Alpha1/Kubuntu
>> >>
>> >> Please report test results here:
>> >> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/378/builds
>> >>
>> >> If we don't get complete test coverage on the i386 test cases, I
>> >> think we should drop it now. the KCI doesn't build the images, we
>> >> get no questions about 32-bit any more, and it is in general a pain
>> >> to support.
>> >>
>> >> Is there any reason to keep it?
>> >>
>> >> Valorie
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> http://about.me/valoriez
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> kubuntu-users mailing list [hidden email] Modify
>> >> settings or unsubscribe at:
>> >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> kubuntu-users mailing list [hidden email] Modify
>> settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/
>> mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users
>>
> <div dir="auto">It&#39;s not a measure of users, we can&#39;t reason
> something if we don&#39;t get enough testers to confirm the quality of
> the software.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div
> class="gmail_quote">On Jun 30, 2017 7:17 PM, &quot;Ferry Toth&quot;
> &lt;<a href="mailto:[hidden email]">[hidden email]</a>&gt;
> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote"
> style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Op
> Fri, 30 Jun 2017 06:55:42 -0400, schreef Clay Weber:<br>
> <br>
> &gt; The lack of testers, the lack of bug reports, and the lack of
> response<br>
> &gt; here seem to indicate that i386 users in our community are a rather
> tiny<br>
> &gt; group. One that is likely shrinking even more.<br>
> <br>
> My mother uses i386. But she doesn&#39;t read this list. And I doubt
> she<br>
> would be able to help testing or write bug reports. She is 76 years
> old.<br>
> <br>
> I don&#39;t thing lack of testers or bug reports is a good measure for
> lack<br>
> of users. There must be a better way, like counting downloads of a<br>
> specific package (i386 vs ams64).<br>
> <br>
> Don&#39;t forget kubuntu is likely to be installed on older machines as
> a<br>
> replacement of WinXP and many are i386.<br>
> <br>
> &gt; The short lifespans of non-LTS releases do not help, either.
> Perhaps<br>
> &gt; dropping support now may  be the best time to pull the plug.On Jun
> 29,<br>
> &gt; 2017 4:33 PM, Valorie Zimmerman &lt;<a
> href="mailto:[hidden email]">[hidden email]</
a>&gt;
> wrote:<br>
> &gt;&gt;<br>
> &gt;&gt; Hello folks, Art Alpha 1 is released today: release notes:<br>
> &gt;&gt; <a href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/Alpha1/Kubuntu"
> rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">https://wiki.ubuntu.com/<wbr>ArtfulAardvark/Alpha1/
Kubuntu</a><br>
> &gt;&gt;<br>
> &gt;&gt; Please report test results here:<br>
> &gt;&gt; <a
> href="http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/378/builds"
> rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/<wbr>qatracker/milestones/378/
<wbr>builds</a><br>

> &gt;&gt;<br>
> &gt;&gt; If we don&#39;t get complete test coverage on the i386 test
> cases, I think<br>
> &gt;&gt; we should drop it now. the KCI doesn&#39;t build the images, we
> get no<br>
> &gt;&gt; questions about 32-bit any more, and it is in general a pain
> to<br>
> &gt;&gt; support.<br>
> &gt;&gt;<br>
> &gt;&gt; Is there any reason to keep it?<br>
> &gt;&gt;<br>
> &gt;&gt; Valorie<br>
> &gt;&gt;<br>
> &gt;&gt; --<br>
> &gt;&gt; <a href="http://about.me/valoriez" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://about.me/valoriez</a><br>
> &gt;&gt;<br>
> &gt;&gt; --<br>
> &gt;&gt; kubuntu-users mailing list <a
> href="mailto:[hidden email]">kubuntu-
[hidden email]</a>
> Modify<br>
> &gt;&gt; settings or unsubscribe at:<br>
> &gt;&gt; <a
> href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users"
> rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-
users</a><br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> --<br>
> kubuntu-users mailing list<br>
> <a
> href="mailto:[hidden email]">kubuntu-
[hidden email]</a><br>
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> </blockquote></div></div>



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Re: Shall we drop i386 / 32-bit? If you think no, please test

dennis knorr
There is an f)
f) 32-Bit-3rd-party-Applications depend on kubuntu 32bit and might be
important in some enterprise environment.

If you do this, from a release engineering standpoint you should
announce it an release cycle earlier and not break it in the current one
without telling users beforehand... Otherwise people will not have the
ability to switch if it breaks their usecase.

And if there's not the test coverage.. the people who will need your
platform WILL test it, if/when they want to migrate to the next platform.

jm2c,
Dennis

Am 01.07.2017 um 14:28 schrieb Ferry Toth:

> Op Fri, 30 Jun 2017 20:05:39 -0400, schreef Aaron Honeycutt:
>
>> It's not a measure of users, we can't reason something if we don't get
>> enough testers to confirm the quality of the software.
>
> I get that.
>
> However, quoting Valori: "Nor do I have the time to personally
> do the testing for a build I do not and probably never will use."
>
> This should raise the question: why build something for a certain
> platform:
> a) because we can
> b) because we want to use it our self
> c) because there are testers available
> d) because there are a significant amount of existing users
> e) because there are a significant amount of potential new users
>
> Speaking for my self as a developer I am driven often by a) and b),
> however being a business man as well, I find d) and e) the only drivers
> sustainable on the long run. In some exceptional cases a) leads to e),
> those are the ones that make me happy to be an engineer.
>
> But c).. is not a goal, nor a driver. Not having enough testers is a
> problem, and problems need to be solved.
>
> To me, I would like to help testing. But I don't want to break my
> production systems. Testing inside a virtual machine is not very useful
> except maybe for installers, as then everybody tests on the same platform.
>
> Maybe what we need is a test plan, and possibly test automation, like a
> instrumented live iso. If that could select tests based on the platform
> to get maximum test coverage without unnecessarily duplicating already
> tested cases, I'm sure more people would participate.
>
>> On Jun 30, 2017 7:17 PM, "Ferry Toth" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Op Fri, 30 Jun 2017 06:55:42 -0400, schreef Clay Weber:
>>>
>>>> The lack of testers, the lack of bug reports, and the lack of
>>>> response here seem to indicate that i386 users in our community are a
>>>> rather tiny group. One that is likely shrinking even more.
>>>
>>> My mother uses i386. But she doesn't read this list. And I doubt she
>>> would be able to help testing or write bug reports. She is 76 years
>>> old.
>>>
>>> I don't thing lack of testers or bug reports is a good measure for lack
>>> of users. There must be a better way, like counting downloads of a
>>> specific package (i386 vs ams64).
>>>
>>> Don't forget kubuntu is likely to be installed on older machines as a
>>> replacement of WinXP and many are i386.
>>>
>>>> The short lifespans of non-LTS releases do not help, either. Perhaps
>>>> dropping support now may  be the best time to pull the plug.On Jun
>>>> 29, 2017 4:33 PM, Valorie Zimmerman <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello folks, Art Alpha 1 is released today: release notes:
>>>>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/Alpha1/Kubuntu
>>>>>
>>>>> Please report test results here:
>>>>> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/378/builds
>>>>>
>>>>> If we don't get complete test coverage on the i386 test cases, I
>>>>> think we should drop it now. the KCI doesn't build the images, we
>>>>> get no questions about 32-bit any more, and it is in general a pain
>>>>> to support.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there any reason to keep it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Valorie
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> http://about.me/valoriez
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> kubuntu-users mailing list [hidden email] Modify
>>>>> settings or unsubscribe at:
>>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> kubuntu-users mailing list [hidden email] Modify
>>> settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/
>>> mailman/listinfo/kubuntu-users
>>>
>> <div dir="auto">It&#39;s not a measure of users, we can&#39;t reason
>> something if we don&#39;t get enough testers to confirm the quality of
>> the software.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div
>> class="gmail_quote">On Jun 30, 2017 7:17 PM, &quot;Ferry Toth&quot;
>> &lt;<a href="mailto:[hidden email]">[hidden email]</a>&gt;
>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote"
>> style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Op
>> Fri, 30 Jun 2017 06:55:42 -0400, schreef Clay Weber:<br>
>> <br>
>> &gt; The lack of testers, the lack of bug reports, and the lack of
>> response<br>
>> &gt; here seem to indicate that i386 users in our community are a rather
>> tiny<br>
>> &gt; group. One that is likely shrinking even more.<br>
>> <br>
>> My mother uses i386. But she doesn&#39;t read this list. And I doubt
>> she<br>
>> would be able to help testing or write bug reports. She is 76 years
>> old.<br>
>> <br>
>> I don&#39;t thing lack of testers or bug reports is a good measure for
>> lack<br>
>> of users. There must be a better way, like counting downloads of a<br>
>> specific package (i386 vs ams64).<br>
>> <br>
>> Don&#39;t forget kubuntu is likely to be installed on older machines as
>> a<br>
>> replacement of WinXP and many are i386.<br>
>> <br>
>> &gt; The short lifespans of non-LTS releases do not help, either.
>> Perhaps<br>
>> &gt; dropping support now may  be the best time to pull the plug.On Jun
>> 29,<br>
>> &gt; 2017 4:33 PM, Valorie Zimmerman &lt;<a
>> href="mailto:[hidden email]">[hidden email]</
> a>&gt;
>> wrote:<br>
>> &gt;&gt;<br>
>> &gt;&gt; Hello folks, Art Alpha 1 is released today: release notes:<br>
>> &gt;&gt; <a href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/Alpha1/Kubuntu"
>> rel="noreferrer"
>> target="_blank">https://wiki.ubuntu.com/<wbr>ArtfulAardvark/Alpha1/
> Kubuntu</a><br>
>> &gt;&gt;<br>
>> &gt;&gt; Please report test results here:<br>
>> &gt;&gt; <a
>> href="http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/378/builds"
>> rel="noreferrer"
>> target="_blank">http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/<wbr>qatracker/milestones/378/
> <wbr>builds</a><br>
>> &gt;&gt;<br>
>> &gt;&gt; If we don&#39;t get complete test coverage on the i386 test
>> cases, I think<br>
>> &gt;&gt; we should drop it now. the KCI doesn&#39;t build the images, we
>> get no<br>
>> &gt;&gt; questions about 32-bit any more, and it is in general a pain
>> to<br>
>> &gt;&gt; support.<br>
>> &gt;&gt;<br>
>> &gt;&gt; Is there any reason to keep it?<br>
>> &gt;&gt;<br>
>> &gt;&gt; Valorie<br>
>> &gt;&gt;<br>
>> &gt;&gt; --<br>
>> &gt;&gt; <a href="http://about.me/valoriez" rel="noreferrer"
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Re: Shall we drop i386 / 32-bit? If you think no, please test

Marco Parillo
I was hoping a developer would answer this, but I think so long as the 32-bit libraries are available, the 32-bit apps can still run on 64-bit operating systems.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 1, 2017, at 9:29 AM, dennis knorr <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> There is an f)
> f) 32-Bit-3rd-party-Applications depend on kubuntu 32bit and might be
> important in some enterprise environment.
>
> If you do this, from a release engineering standpoint you should
> announce it an release cycle earlier and not break it in the current one
> without telling users beforehand... Otherwise people will not have the
> ability to switch if it breaks their usecase.
>
> And if there's not the test coverage.. the people who will need your
> platform WILL test it, if/when they want to migrate to the next platform.
>
> jm2c,
> Dennis
>
>> Am 01.07.2017 um 14:28 schrieb Ferry Toth:
>> Op Fri, 30 Jun 2017 20:05:39 -0400, schreef Aaron Honeycutt:
>>
>>> It's not a measure of users, we can't reason something if we don't get
>>> enough testers to confirm the quality of the software.
>>
>> I get that.
>>
>> However, quoting Valori: "Nor do I have the time to personally
>> do the testing for a build I do not and probably never will use."
>>
>> This should raise the question: why build something for a certain
>> platform:
>> a) because we can
>> b) because we want to use it our self
>> c) because there are testers available
>> d) because there are a significant amount of existing users
>> e) because there are a significant amount of potential new users
>>
>> Speaking for my self as a developer I am driven often by a) and b),
>> however being a business man as well, I find d) and e) the only drivers
>> sustainable on the long run. In some exceptional cases a) leads to e),
>> those are the ones that make me happy to be an engineer.
>>
>> But c).. is not a goal, nor a driver. Not having enough testers is a
>> problem, and problems need to be solved.
>>
>> To me, I would like to help testing. But I don't want to break my
>> production systems. Testing inside a virtual machine is not very useful
>> except maybe for installers, as then everybody tests on the same platform.
>>
>> Maybe what we need is a test plan, and possibly test automation, like a
>> instrumented live iso. If that could select tests based on the platform
>> to get maximum test coverage without unnecessarily duplicating already
>> tested cases, I'm sure more people would participate.
>>
>>>> On Jun 30, 2017 7:17 PM, "Ferry Toth" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Op Fri, 30 Jun 2017 06:55:42 -0400, schreef Clay Weber:
>>>>
>>>>> The lack of testers, the lack of bug reports, and the lack of
>>>>> response here seem to indicate that i386 users in our community are a
>>>>> rather tiny group. One that is likely shrinking even more.
>>>>
>>>> My mother uses i386. But she doesn't read this list. And I doubt she
>>>> would be able to help testing or write bug reports. She is 76 years
>>>> old.
>>>>
>>>> I don't thing lack of testers or bug reports is a good measure for lack
>>>> of users. There must be a better way, like counting downloads of a
>>>> specific package (i386 vs ams64).
>>>>
>>>> Don't forget kubuntu is likely to be installed on older machines as a
>>>> replacement of WinXP and many are i386.
>>>>
>>>>> The short lifespans of non-LTS releases do not help, either. Perhaps
>>>>> dropping support now may  be the best time to pull the plug.On Jun
>>>>> 29, 2017 4:33 PM, Valorie Zimmerman <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello folks, Art Alpha 1 is released today: release notes:
>>>>>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/Alpha1/Kubuntu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please report test results here:
>>>>>> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/378/builds
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we don't get complete test coverage on the i386 test cases, I
>>>>>> think we should drop it now. the KCI doesn't build the images, we
>>>>>> get no questions about 32-bit any more, and it is in general a pain
>>>>>> to support.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there any reason to keep it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Valorie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> http://about.me/valoriez
>>>>>>
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>>> <div dir="auto">It&#39;s not a measure of users, we can&#39;t reason
>>> something if we don&#39;t get enough testers to confirm the quality of
>>> the software.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div
>>> class="gmail_quote">On Jun 30, 2017 7:17 PM, &quot;Ferry Toth&quot;
>>> &lt;<a href="mailto:[hidden email]">[hidden email]</a>&gt;
>>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote"
>>> style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Op
>>> Fri, 30 Jun 2017 06:55:42 -0400, schreef Clay Weber:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> &gt; The lack of testers, the lack of bug reports, and the lack of
>>> response<br>
>>> &gt; here seem to indicate that i386 users in our community are a rather
>>> tiny<br>
>>> &gt; group. One that is likely shrinking even more.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> My mother uses i386. But she doesn&#39;t read this list. And I doubt
>>> she<br>
>>> would be able to help testing or write bug reports. She is 76 years
>>> old.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> I don&#39;t thing lack of testers or bug reports is a good measure for
>>> lack<br>
>>> of users. There must be a better way, like counting downloads of a<br>
>>> specific package (i386 vs ams64).<br>
>>> <br>
>>> Don&#39;t forget kubuntu is likely to be installed on older machines as
>>> a<br>
>>> replacement of WinXP and many are i386.<br>
>>> <br>
>>> &gt; The short lifespans of non-LTS releases do not help, either.
>>> Perhaps<br>
>>> &gt; dropping support now may  be the best time to pull the plug.On Jun
>>> 29,<br>
>>> &gt; 2017 4:33 PM, Valorie Zimmerman &lt;<a
>>> href="mailto:[hidden email]">[hidden email]</
>> a>&gt;
>>> wrote:<br>
>>> &gt;&gt;<br>
>>> &gt;&gt; Hello folks, Art Alpha 1 is released today: release notes:<br>
>>> &gt;&gt; <a href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/Alpha1/Kubuntu"
>>> rel="noreferrer"
>>> target="_blank">https://wiki.ubuntu.com/<wbr>ArtfulAardvark/Alpha1/
>> Kubuntu</a><br>
>>> &gt;&gt;<br>
>>> &gt;&gt; Please report test results here:<br>
>>> &gt;&gt; <a
>>> href="http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/378/builds"
>>> rel="noreferrer"
>>> target="_blank">http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/<wbr>qatracker/milestones/378/
>> <wbr>builds</a><br>
>>> &gt;&gt;<br>
>>> &gt;&gt; If we don&#39;t get complete test coverage on the i386 test
>>> cases, I think<br>
>>> &gt;&gt; we should drop it now. the KCI doesn&#39;t build the images, we
>>> get no<br>
>>> &gt;&gt; questions about 32-bit any more, and it is in general a pain
>>> to<br>
>>> &gt;&gt; support.<br>
>>> &gt;&gt;<br>
>>> &gt;&gt; Is there any reason to keep it?<br>
>>> &gt;&gt;<br>
>>> &gt;&gt; Valorie<br>
>>> &gt;&gt;<br>
>>> &gt;&gt; --<br>
>>> &gt;&gt; <a href="http://about.me/valoriez" rel="noreferrer"
>>> target="_blank">http://about.me/valoriez</a><br>
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>>> </blockquote></div></div>
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Re: Shall we drop i386 / 32-bit? If you think no, please test

David Lang
There have been a few odd corner cases, but just about everything in userspace
doesn't care if the kernel is 32 bit or 64 bit. People started running 64 bit
kernels with 32 bit userspace fairly early on, and it's only gotten better.

The bigger reason for running 32 bit is that you are on either very old
hardware, or an embedded system that's really small/cheap hardware.

I would question if anyone is running KDE/Kubuntu on new, small/cheap 32bit
x86 hardware (there are a lot of people running on 32 bit ARM hardware)

But there are probably a lot of old laptops/desktops around that aren't 64 bit
(but they are getting quite old by now). There are two questions about this
hardware

1. is there enough of it to have kubuntu worry about it

2. is the performance of kubuntu on such limited hardware (memory and cpu) worth
it.

Remember, we are talking about single-core system, most of which will only have
a GB or two of ram (4G max except for corner cases that are messy to support)

Linux will continue to run on these systems, the question is if the KDE desktop
will run in such limited resource environments.

David Lang

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Re: Shall we drop i386 / 32-bit? If you think no, please test

Daniel Chen-2
Hi, 

On Jul 3, 2017 06:13, "David Lang" <[hidden email]> wrote:
I would question if anyone is running KDE/Kubuntu on new, small/cheap 32bit x86 hardware (there are a lot of people running on 32 bit ARM hardware)


Not new, per se, but there are repurposed Pentium III, K6-III, and Athlon chassis used for virtual machines (numbers are in the low hundreds). These are normally LTS with managed upstream kernels.


1. is there enough of it to have kubuntu worry about it


Unlikely, since a small group manages it. We'll still track LTS and roll upstream kernels.


2. is the performance of kubuntu on such limited hardware (memory and cpu) worth it.


Biased, but yes

/d

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