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Shock announcement

Liam Proven
OK, not a tech query, but important Ubuntu news from the SABDFL

https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/04/ubuntu-unity-is-dead-desktop-will-switch-back-to-gnome-next-year/


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Re: Shock announcement

W Scott Lockwood III
On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
OK, not a tech query, but important Ubuntu news from the SABDFL

https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/04/ubuntu-unity-is-dead-desktop-will-switch-back-to-gnome-next-year/



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FOO=$users-diety-or-lack-thereof-of-choice

while true
do clear;
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sleep 3
done


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Shock announcement

Tony Scott-2
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
Does anyone know if it is possible through the use of extensions etc
if it would be possible to recreate some or all of the Unity desktop
experience in GNOME?

If it is, I would propose this would be the way forward for the next
LTS release.

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On 5 April 2017 at 22:14, TT Mooney <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Not all that surprising -- Phone/Touch never took off. Killing Unity is a surprise, and I like the UI, but understandable. There was just too much of a disconnect from the community.
>
> I still believe in convergence, but I don't pretend to know how it's going to happen (I'm hoping my next-gen Psion has something to do with it). I do know that Android isn't great, and we need a FOSS equivalent to Apple's integration.
>
> On 05/04/2017 21:49, Liam Proven wrote:
>> OK, not a tech query, but important Ubuntu news from the SABDFL
>>
>> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
>>
>> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/04/ubuntu-unity-is-dead-desktop-will-switch-back-to-gnome-next-year/
>>
>>
>
> --
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>
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> Technologist and Writer
> +44 (0)7908631440
> Skype: ttmooney
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>
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RE: Shock announcement

J.Witvliet
In reply to this post by Liam Proven

Is this an open invitation to irrevocably move systemd to /dev/null ?

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of W Stacy Lockwood
Sent: woensdag 5 april 2017 22:55
To: Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions
Cc: British Ubuntu Talk
Subject: Re: Shock announcement

 

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:

OK, not a tech query, but important Ubuntu news from the SABDFL

https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/04/ubuntu-unity-is-dead-desktop-will-switch-back-to-gnome-next-year/



#!/bin/bash

FOO=$users-diety-or-lack-thereof-of-choice

while true

do clear;
echo "Praise $FOO!"

sleep 3
done


--
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Re: Shock announcement

Xen
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
Liam Proven schreef op 05-04-2017 22:49:
> OK, not a tech query, but important Ubuntu news from the SABDFL
>
> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
>
> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/04/ubuntu-unity-is-dead-desktop-will-switch-back-to-gnome-next-year/

I used to be able to ask people if they knew what Ubuntu was and if they
didn't know, I could show them, ie. I would show Unity.

This basically means that Ubuntu will stop being a recognisable brand.

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Re: Shock announcement

Tom H-4
In reply to this post by J.Witvliet
On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 3:56 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Is this an open invitation to irrevocably move systemd to /dev/null ?

Please bottom-post.

What does systemd have with Ubuntu switching from Unity to Gnome?!

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Re: Shock announcement

Ken D'Ambrosio
In reply to this post by Xen
Funny.  I seem to recall Unity coming out in 10.10 or so.  You know --
five years or so *after* Ubuntu had made itself a "reconisable brand."  
If you're so wed to a single UI that it defines your entire experience,
well, I think you're overly dependent on what the UI means.  As for what
Ubuntu means to me:

* Ease-of-setup
* Not getting lost in the "free/libre" weeds and politics
* Frequent releases
* Lots of easy hardware support
* Long-term support for releases (VASTLY longer than Debian's)
* Actual corporate backing which helps with bringing into companies
* Support for *multiple* UIs: GNOME, MATE, KDE, and, yeah, Unity.

At the end of the day, Ubuntu is way more than a single UI.  And for
that matter, I doubt that Unity will be thrown in the trash; it will
simply lose its place as the primary target.  I would not be surprised
at all if it continues to have extra-Canonical support.

$.02

-Ken


On 2017-04-06 04:10, Xen wrote:

> Liam Proven schreef op 05-04-2017 22:49:
>> OK, not a tech query, but important Ubuntu news from the SABDFL
>>
>> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
>>
>> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/04/ubuntu-unity-is-dead-desktop-will-switch-back-to-gnome-next-year/
>
> I used to be able to ask people if they knew what Ubuntu was and if
> they didn't know, I could show them, ie. I would show Unity.
>
> This basically means that Ubuntu will stop being a recognisable brand.

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Re: Shock announcement

Doug McGarrett

On 04/06/2017 12:06 PM, Ken D'Ambrosio wrote:

> Funny.  I seem to recall Unity coming out in 10.10 or so.  You know --
> five years or so *after* Ubuntu had made itself a "reconisable
> brand."  If you're so wed to a single UI that it defines your entire
> experience, well, I think you're overly dependent on what the UI
> means.  As for what Ubuntu means to me:
>
> * Ease-of-setup
> * Not getting lost in the "free/libre" weeds and politics
> * Frequent releases
> * Lots of easy hardware support
> * Long-term support for releases (VASTLY longer than Debian's)
> * Actual corporate backing which helps with bringing into companies
> * Support for *multiple* UIs: GNOME, MATE, KDE, and, yeah, Unity.
>
> At the end of the day, Ubuntu is way more than a single UI.  And for
> that matter, I doubt that Unity will be thrown in the trash; it will
> simply lose its place as the primary target.  I would not be surprised
> at all if it continues to have extra-Canonical support.
>
> $.02
>
> -Ken
Perhaps Ken is right about the UI remaining available. However, for me,
I am wedded to a particular UI, and if it became unavailable with a
particular OS, I would look for another OS
where it was still available. For me, that UI is KDE (Kubuntu). Other
OS's have KDE.
--doug

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Re: Shock announcement

Xen
In reply to this post by Ken D'Ambrosio
Ken D'Ambrosio schreef op 06-04-2017 18:06:
> Funny.  I seem to recall Unity coming out in 10.10 or so.  You know --
> five years or so *after* Ubuntu had made itself a "reconisable brand."

What's more funny is that I didn't know about Ubuntu until it already
had Unity; that my first encounter with Ubuntu was with Unity; and that
the first ISO I probably burned (not sure) was 12.10.

That while I did use OpenSUSE 10 at that time (?) so which is more
funny, the one that makes you laugh, or the one that gives you joy? ;-).

>  If you're so wed to a single UI that it defines your entire
> experience, well, I think you're overly dependent on what the UI
> means. As for what Ubuntu means to me:

I don't even use that UI, I am saying it as a recognisable thing.

> * Ease-of-setup
> * Not getting lost in the "free/libre" weeds and politics
> * Frequent releases
> * Lots of easy hardware support
> * Long-term support for releases (VASTLY longer than Debian's)
> * Actual corporate backing which helps with bringing into companies
> * Support for *multiple* UIs: GNOME, MATE, KDE, and, yeah, Unity.

Sure, I just think the "pivot" will disappear.

Ubuntu's peak popularity in Google search was in 2007 and has since seen
a steady decline. But I don't know why that should be relevant here.
Ubuntu 10.10 was at 10.10.10 ;-). OpenSUSE has also seen a steady
decline of the same order. But I think OpenSUSE just lost its appeal
over the years, becoming more of a commercialised, or
hard-to-become-part-of-the-community system and not everyone is as fond
of the leadership of its chairman.

Whereas Ubuntu, to me, grew in that period in that same sense.

Still not sure why that is relevant :p.

I thought Mr. Shuttleworth whenever he appeared in media had something
good and feisty to say.

I just hope and wonder whether or not the "popular interest" will remain
after the "flagship" UI disappears, if it does, and don't question
whether it will, please. Ubuntu Gnome is to me more of a "Kiosk
computer" than anything else (Gnome 3 I mean) and although that is a
useful thing to showcase to new people, and it does mean that Ubuntu
will move more in the direction of Debian as a server-OS.

I am sure the Ubuntu Gnome people will be happy with it as they have
been doing good work and will probably get more support now?

But I guess I should stop talking :p

> At the end of the day, Ubuntu is way more than a single UI.  And for
> that matter, I doubt that Unity will be thrown in the trash; it will
> simply lose its place as the primary target.  I would not be surprised
> at all if it continues to have extra-Canonical support.

That's ... the same as ending up in the trash, because there is no one
else who will pick it up, you know.

No matter how I personally may have disliked Unity as a core UI to use
for everyday use,

I hope that perhaps they will take on Gnome 3 with the same vigor and
continue to give it their personal brand, that's all.

Regards.

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Re: Shock announcement

Tony Scott-2
https://www.unity8.org/

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On 6 April 2017 at 17:54, Xen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ken D'Ambrosio schreef op 06-04-2017 18:06:
>>
>> Funny.  I seem to recall Unity coming out in 10.10 or so.  You know --
>> five years or so *after* Ubuntu had made itself a "reconisable brand."
>
>
> What's more funny is that I didn't know about Ubuntu until it already had
> Unity; that my first encounter with Ubuntu was with Unity; and that the
> first ISO I probably burned (not sure) was 12.10.
>
> That while I did use OpenSUSE 10 at that time (?) so which is more funny,
> the one that makes you laugh, or the one that gives you joy? ;-).
>
>>  If you're so wed to a single UI that it defines your entire
>> experience, well, I think you're overly dependent on what the UI
>> means. As for what Ubuntu means to me:
>
>
> I don't even use that UI, I am saying it as a recognisable thing.
>
>> * Ease-of-setup
>> * Not getting lost in the "free/libre" weeds and politics
>> * Frequent releases
>> * Lots of easy hardware support
>> * Long-term support for releases (VASTLY longer than Debian's)
>> * Actual corporate backing which helps with bringing into companies
>> * Support for *multiple* UIs: GNOME, MATE, KDE, and, yeah, Unity.
>
>
> Sure, I just think the "pivot" will disappear.
>
> Ubuntu's peak popularity in Google search was in 2007 and has since seen a
> steady decline. But I don't know why that should be relevant here. Ubuntu
> 10.10 was at 10.10.10 ;-). OpenSUSE has also seen a steady decline of the
> same order. But I think OpenSUSE just lost its appeal over the years,
> becoming more of a commercialised, or hard-to-become-part-of-the-community
> system and not everyone is as fond of the leadership of its chairman.
>
> Whereas Ubuntu, to me, grew in that period in that same sense.
>
> Still not sure why that is relevant :p.
>
> I thought Mr. Shuttleworth whenever he appeared in media had something good
> and feisty to say.
>
> I just hope and wonder whether or not the "popular interest" will remain
> after the "flagship" UI disappears, if it does, and don't question whether
> it will, please. Ubuntu Gnome is to me more of a "Kiosk computer" than
> anything else (Gnome 3 I mean) and although that is a useful thing to
> showcase to new people, and it does mean that Ubuntu will move more in the
> direction of Debian as a server-OS.
>
> I am sure the Ubuntu Gnome people will be happy with it as they have been
> doing good work and will probably get more support now?
>
> But I guess I should stop talking :p
>
>> At the end of the day, Ubuntu is way more than a single UI.  And for
>> that matter, I doubt that Unity will be thrown in the trash; it will
>> simply lose its place as the primary target.  I would not be surprised
>> at all if it continues to have extra-Canonical support.
>
>
> That's ... the same as ending up in the trash, because there is no one else
> who will pick it up, you know.
>
> No matter how I personally may have disliked Unity as a core UI to use for
> everyday use,
>
> I hope that perhaps they will take on Gnome 3 with the same vigor and
> continue to give it their personal brand, that's all.
>
> Regards.
>
>
> --
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> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users

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Re: Shock announcement

Xen
Let me put that in perspective:

Tony Scott schreef op 06-04-2017 19:18:

> On 6 April 2017 at 17:54, Xen <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> That's ... the same as ending up in the trash, because there is no one
>> else
>> who will pick it up, you know.

> https://www.unity8.org/


An open source team also picked up the game Theme Hospital.

But in earlier release notes I saw "The game doesn't crash as often
anymore when two handy men bump into each other" or something like that.

That had me slamming my head to my face or something of the equivalent
nature as the original game had always been very stable to my
conception.

So surely it is a nice project but it will never be as good as the
old...

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Re: Shock announcement

compdoc
In reply to this post by Ken D'Ambrosio

On 04/06/2017 10:06 AM, Ken D'Ambrosio wrote:

* Support for *multiple* UIs: GNOME, MATE, KDE, and, yeah, Unity.

Ive always installed Ubuntu Server with the Mate desktop. I liked Unity, but it never worked as a remote desktop because it was '3D'.

Hopefully, Gnome 3 has a maintained 2D desktop alternative.

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Re: Shock announcement

Johnny Rosenberg
In reply to this post by Doug McGarrett
2017-04-06 18:51 GMT+02:00 Doug <[hidden email]>:

On 04/06/2017 12:06 PM, Ken D'Ambrosio wrote:
Funny.  I seem to recall Unity coming out in 10.10 or so. 

”Or so” is correct. Ubuntu 10.10 was Gnome 2, Ubuntu 11.04 was Unity. I kept Ubuntu 10.10 as long as possible, I think I waited until Ubuntu 12.04 before i upgraded. Since Ubuntu 10.10, they removed almost every nice feature that I used commonly, forcing me into awkward workarounds, some of them didn't even work… Seriously, I suspect they spied on me. It was like ”ok, how do Johnny Rosenberg use Ubuntu? Aha… he use those features. Let's remove one of them and see what happens… And when I still didn't switch to another distribution, they removed another one and so on.



Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg

 
You know -- five years or so *after* Ubuntu had made itself a "reconisable brand."  If you're so wed to a single UI that it defines your entire experience, well, I think you're overly dependent on what the UI means.  As for what Ubuntu means to me:

* Ease-of-setup
* Not getting lost in the "free/libre" weeds and politics
* Frequent releases
* Lots of easy hardware support
* Long-term support for releases (VASTLY longer than Debian's)
* Actual corporate backing which helps with bringing into companies
* Support for *multiple* UIs: GNOME, MATE, KDE, and, yeah, Unity.

At the end of the day, Ubuntu is way more than a single UI.  And for that matter, I doubt that Unity will be thrown in the trash; it will simply lose its place as the primary target.  I would not be surprised at all if it continues to have extra-Canonical support.

$.02

-Ken
Perhaps Ken is right about the UI remaining available. However, for me, I am wedded to a particular UI, and if it became unavailable with a particular OS, I would look for another OS
where it was still available. For me, that UI is KDE (Kubuntu). Other OS's have KDE.
--doug


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Re: Shock announcement

NoOp-4
On 04/06/2017 02:40 PM, Johnny Rosenberg wrote:

> 2017-04-06 18:51 GMT+02:00 Doug <[hidden email]>:
>
>>
>> On 04/06/2017 12:06 PM, Ken D'Ambrosio wrote:
>>
>>> Funny.  I seem to recall Unity coming out in 10.10 or so.
>>
>>
> ”Or so” is correct. Ubuntu 10.10 was Gnome 2, Ubuntu 11.04 was Unity. I
> kept Ubuntu 10.10 as long as possible, I think I waited until Ubuntu 12.04
> before i upgraded. Since Ubuntu 10.10, they removed almost every nice
> feature that I used commonly, forcing me into awkward workarounds, some of
> them didn't even work… Seriously, I suspect they spied on me. It was like
> ”ok, how do Johnny Rosenberg use Ubuntu? Aha… he use those features. Let's
> remove one of them and see what happens… And when I still didn't switch to
> another distribution, they removed another one and so on.
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> Johnny Rosenberg
<snip>
:-)

$ echo $DESKTOP_SESSION
gnome-flashback-metacity
$ uname -a
Linux <> 4.4.0-72-generic #93-Ubuntu SMP Fri Mar 31 14:07:41 UTC 2017
x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux


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Re: Shock announcement

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by compdoc
On 6 April 2017 at 21:01, compdoc <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Ive always installed Ubuntu Server with the Mate desktop. I liked Unity, but
> it never worked as a remote desktop because it was '3D'.
>
> Hopefully, Gnome 3 has a maintained 2D desktop alternative.

Nope.

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