Smart questions and bikeshedding - Was: Install Brackets removes Boinc ???

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
6 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Smart questions and bikeshedding - Was: Install Brackets removes Boinc ???

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 23:42:20 -0500, Wynona Stacy Lockwood wrote:

>On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 10:58 PM, Nils Kassube wrote:
>> Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> > Please read http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html .
>>
>> Please don't refer people to that article. While there are certainly
>> some good points in the article, it is written in an intimidating
>> way. Therefore I don't think it is helpful for an ordinary user.
>
>Seconded. In fact, anything by ESR should be titled "How to write like
>a pompous windbag."

I had a point to post this link. Nils had a point to question this
link.

You are capturing the thread for off-topic bikeshedding. There's no
point at all for your reply.

Actually it's hard to help the original poster. I suspect he's
interested in a solution or at least an explanation.

Note, I not only posted this link, actually I posted the link and
additionally what info he should provide, to get more than just...

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:36:47 -0500, Wade Smart wrote:
>Ive never seen this before. Has anyone else seen this?

... a "Yes" or "No".

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 04:32:57 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:36:47 -0500, Wade Smart wrote:
>>In installed Brackets and when I did it uninstalled Boinc.
>>So I started to reinstall Boinc and it said it had to uninstall
>>Brackets.
>>
>>Ive never seen this before. Has anyone else seen this?  
>
>Please read http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html .

The above is the single line with the link, followed by 13 (18) lines
related to the request:

>Regarding https://packages.ubuntu.com/ brackets is not provided as a
>regular deb packages for any Ubuntu release. It seems to be available
>as a snap as well as a regular deb package by a PPA. The PPA I found
>seemingly installs brackets, including required libraries that do not
>conflict with library versions provided by official repositories.
>However, you might use another source to install it.
>
>You missed to provide information.
>
>What Ubuntu release are you using?
>
>From what source do you install brackets?
>
>How did you install brackets?
>
>What output do you get? There's a reason, if installing one package
>does remove another package and the package management will inform you
>about this reason.

Until now I don't see another post trying to help the original poster.
Mine still is the only reply. The topic of the original thread isn't
" http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ", it's "Install
Brackets removes Boinc ???".


--
ubuntu-users mailing list
[hidden email]
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smart questions and bikeshedding - Was: Install Brackets removes Boinc ???

Peter Flynn
On 24/08/18 09:30, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 23:42:20 -0500, Wynona Stacy Lockwood wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 10:58 PM, Nils Kassube wrote:
>>> Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>>>> Please read http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html .
>>>
>>> Please don't refer people to that article. While there are certainly
>>> some good points in the article, it is written in an intimidating
>>> way. Therefore I don't think it is helpful for an ordinary user.

It needs condensing (tl;dr) or we need a more concise and up-to-date
page to refer users to.

>> Seconded. In fact, anything by ESR should be titled "How to write like
>> a pompous windbag."

Except that he's actually right in most places, just aggrieved.

> Actually it's hard to help the original poster. I suspect he's
> interested in a solution or at least an explanation.

Which is why Ralf asked the additional questions. Wade didn't originally
give enough information to make it possible to answer the question.

Users don't generally understand — initially — that context is king, and
that without it, there can be no help. Which is why ESR wrote that page,
for right or wrong.

> On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 04:32:57 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:36:47 -0500, Wade Smart wrote:
>>> In installed Brackets and when I did it uninstalled Boinc. So I
>>> started to reinstall Boinc and it said it had to uninstall Brackets.
>>>
>>> Ive never seen this before. Has anyone else seen this?  

[snip]

>> What output do you get? There's a reason, if installing one package
>> does remove another package and the package management will inform
>> you about this reason.

There is always a reason, but the problem with uncooperative packages
and systems is usually that they don't give anywhere near enough
information for diagnostics.

I've never used Brackets or Boinc, so I have no idea why they reject
each other, so I can't help in this case. But I HAVE (occasionally, but
rarely) had similar conflicts between two packages or systems, and in
each case the authors of both were unwilling to make changes because
they had fundamental differences of opinion about architectures or
frameworks or something similarly fundamental. Or because one of them
"got there first". In one case the dispute dragged on for 2–3 years
before one of them finally added a 3–line fix (if...else...endif).

> Until now I don't see another post trying to help the original
> poster. Mine still is the only reply.

I wish I could help.

> The topic of the original
> thread isn't " http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ",
> it's "Install Brackets removes Boinc ???".

The problems raised by ESR still need re-expressing, though.

///Peter

--
ubuntu-users mailing list
[hidden email]
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smart questions and bikeshedding - Was: Install Brackets removes Boinc ???

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 11:04:40 +0100, Peter Flynn wrote:
>>>> Ralf Mardorf wrote:  
>>>>> Please read http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html .  
>It needs condensing (tl;dr) or we need a more concise and up-to-date
>page to refer users to.

I agree on Nils's as well as on your opinion. The link is
"intimidating" and way too long, containing a lot of irrelevant
information and a few insults. However, it's a link much used, since
it's not easy to find a better explanation.

>I wish I could help.

I don't use this software myself, but likely the snap as well as the
PPA solve the issue. For some software snaps could suffer from
"limitations". I don't know if it's the case here, but I would try the
PPA first.


--
ubuntu-users mailing list
[hidden email]
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smart questions and bikeshedding

Peter Flynn
On 24/08/18 11:38, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 11:04:40 +0100, Peter Flynn wrote:
>>>>> Ralf Mardorf wrote:  
>>>>>> Please read http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html .  
>> It needs condensing (tl;dr) or we need a more concise and
>> up-to-date page to refer users to.
>
> I agree on Nils's as well as on your opinion. The link is
> "intimidating" and way too long, containing a lot of irrelevant
> information and a few insults.

It was fashionable in the days of the BOfH to belittle the user as a
method of education. Experts used understandably to resent the waste of
their time answering every one of each day's 32,786 queries with "RTFM"
and as someone who went through that route, I had a certain sympathy
with them.

Unfortunately the separation of concerns which led to the rise of the
"help desk" (in order to give the experts and developers some
breathing-space) meant that questions are now answered by people with
very little knowledge and even less understanding. This is fine for
Level 1 questions ("my printer doesn't work") but it doesn't educate the
user in how to ask better questions when they get to Level 2 or Level 3.
*That's* where we are missing out.

Outside that kind of structured corporate or institutional system, we
value the open-source field as one where users can ask the experts
directly, but the users have still not been taught how to do this
efficiently. *That's* why we need a better "HOWTO" page.

> However, it's a link much used, since
> it's not easy to find a better explanation.

Indeed it's not, and I should probably get off my hobbyhorse and
re-write the damn thing :-)

///Peter


--
ubuntu-users mailing list
[hidden email]
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smart questions and bikeshedding - Was: Install Brackets removes Boinc ???

Gene Heskett-2
In reply to this post by Ralf Mardorf-2
On Friday 24 August 2018 04:30:39 Ralf Mardorf wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 23:42:20 -0500, Wynona Stacy Lockwood wrote:
> >On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 10:58 PM, Nils Kassube wrote:
> >> Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> >> > Please read http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html .
> >>
> >> Please don't refer people to that article. While there are
> >> certainly some good points in the article, it is written in an
> >> intimidating way. Therefore I don't think it is helpful for an
> >> ordinary user.
> >
> >Seconded. In fact, anything by ESR should be titled "How to write
> > like a pompous windbag."
>
> I had a point to post this link. Nils had a point to question this
> link.
>
> You are capturing the thread for off-topic bikeshedding. There's no
> point at all for your reply.
>
> Actually it's hard to help the original poster. I suspect he's
> interested in a solution or at least an explanation.
>
> Note, I not only posted this link, actually I posted the link and
> additionally what info he should provide, to get more than just...
>
> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:36:47 -0500, Wade Smart wrote:
> >Ive never seen this before. Has anyone else seen this?
>
> ... a "Yes" or "No".
>
> On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 04:32:57 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> >On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 19:36:47 -0500, Wade Smart wrote:
> >>In installed Brackets and when I did it uninstalled Boinc.
> >>So I started to reinstall Boinc and it said it had to uninstall
> >>Brackets.
> >>
> >>Ive never seen this before. Has anyone else seen this?
> >
> >Please read http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html .
>
> The above is the single line with the link, followed by 13 (18) lines
>
> related to the request:
> >Regarding https://packages.ubuntu.com/ brackets is not provided as a
> >regular deb packages for any Ubuntu release. It seems to be available
> >as a snap as well as a regular deb package by a PPA. The PPA I found
> >seemingly installs brackets, including required libraries that do not
> >conflict with library versions provided by official repositories.
> >However, you might use another source to install it.
> >
> >You missed to provide information.
> >
> >What Ubuntu release are you using?
> >
> >From what source do you install brackets?
> >
> >How did you install brackets?
> >
> >What output do you get? There's a reason, if installing one package
> >does remove another package and the package management will inform
> > you about this reason.
>
> Until now I don't see another post trying to help the original poster.
> Mine still is the only reply. The topic of the original thread isn't
> " http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ", it's "Install
> Brackets removes Boinc ???".

I was once in the top 500 runners when setiathome was actually a linux
app, but removed boinc shortly after the new brooms made seti a windows
app a decade+ back, then ported it back to linux, throwing folding@home
into the mix too. But they ran the priority up so high it made the
machine worthless for anything else. I fussed, they ignored me, I tried
to get it to behave like the old seti@home, but everytime it restarted
on a new packet, it restarted at top priority. I even had some heat
induced system resets when my phenom got up to 135C.  Its showing 33C in
gkrellm right now.

I fussed again, was basicly told thats the way it is.  I built this
machine for ME to use, so I nuked it. Has it been improved to run more
like the old seti@home, or does it still hog every cpu cycle it can get,
leaving the user thinking his cpu is running at 1.79 MHz?

Just curious...

--
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

--
ubuntu-users mailing list
[hidden email]
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Smart questions and bikeshedding - Was: Install Brackets removes Boinc ???

Wade Smart-2
I only run seti.
Use at most 90% of the cpu, use at most 90% cpu time.
Right now my sensors say:
Core 0,1,2,3: 95, 92, 86, 88' C

The only time I have a problem is when facebook or youtube goes nuts
in the browser and both memory and cpu skyrocket, or I have too many
tabs open while working.

Wade
--
Registered Linux User: #480675
Registered Linux Machine: #408606
Linux since June 2005

--
ubuntu-users mailing list
[hidden email]
Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users