Success with German DVB-T2?

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Success with German DVB-T2?

Ingolf Steinbach
Hi,

has anyone of you had success with watching (unencrypted) *German*
DVB-T2 on *ubuntu? If so, would you share some information?

- Which Ubuntu are you running?
- Which kernel?
- Which receiver did you install?
- Which receiver firmware?
- Which video/tv player software?
- Any specific additional packages (maybe related to H.265)?

Maybe you know the reason why
- my (USB) receiver is recognized correctly
- receives the firmware (both according syslog)
- finds traditional DVB-T signals and services w/o problem
- finds the DVB-T2 signals @754000kHz but *no* service providers
although there should be some unencrypted services according to
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Jena

Any help welcome! Cheers
Ingolf

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Re: Success with German DVB-T2?

Conny Enström
Den 2017-03-01 kl. 21:40, skrev Ingolf Steinbach:

> Hi,
>
> has anyone of you had success with watching (unencrypted) *German*
> DVB-T2 on *ubuntu? If so, would you share some information?
>
> - Which Ubuntu are you running?
> - Which kernel?
> - Which receiver did you install?
> - Which receiver firmware?
> - Which video/tv player software?
> - Any specific additional packages (maybe related to H.265)?
>
> Maybe you know the reason why
> - my (USB) receiver is recognized correctly
> - receives the firmware (both according syslog)
> - finds traditional DVB-T signals and services w/o problem
> - finds the DVB-T2 signals @754000kHz but *no* service providers
> although there should be some unencrypted services according to
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Jena
>
> Any help welcome! Cheers
> Ingolf
>
I was using this with Ubuntu 14.04, worked great.
https://github.com/tvheadend/tvheadend

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Re: Success with German DVB-T2?

Ingolf Steinbach
2017-03-01 22:10 GMT+01:00 Conny Enström <[hidden email]>:
> I was using this with Ubuntu 14.04, worked great.
> https://github.com/tvheadend/tvheadend

Just to make sure: you were using it in *Germany* for watching DVB-T2
(rather than DVB-T)?

Ingolf

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Re: Success with German DVB-T2?

Nils Kassube-2
In reply to this post by Ingolf Steinbach
Ingolf Steinbach wrote:
> has anyone of you had success with watching (unencrypted) *German*
> DVB-T2 on *ubuntu? If so, would you share some information?

While I can't receive DVB-T2 HD yet due to the lack of the appropriate
hardware, I would suggest you try the command

dvbstream -f 754000 -o 8192 | vlc -

in a terminal. It should work with *Ubuntu 16.04 as that vlc version can
decode hevc / h.265. If it works, you can select the wanted station from
the menu Playback -> Program.


Nils


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Re: Success with German DVB-T2?

Ingolf Steinbach
Hi Nils.

2017-03-02 22:38 GMT+01:00 Nils Kassube <[hidden email]>:
> dvbstream -f 754000 -o 8192 | vlc -

Unfortunately that did not work either.

Tuning to 754000 Hz
VLC media player 2.2.4 Weatherwax (revision 2.2.3-37-g888b7e89)
Using DVB card "Silicon Labs Si2168", freq=754000
tuning DVB-T (in United Kingdom) to 754000000 Hz, Bandwidth: 8
Getting frontend status
[...]
Not able to lock to the signal on the given frequency


Thanks anyway. Does "locking to the signal" already require the
ability to decode HEVC/H.265?

Ingolf

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Re: Success with German DVB-T2?

Oliver Grawert
In reply to this post by Ingolf Steinbach
hi,
Am Mittwoch, den 01.03.2017, 21:40 +0100 schrieb Ingolf Steinbach:
> Hi,
>
> has anyone of you had success with watching (unencrypted) *German*
> DVB-T2 on *ubuntu? If so, would you share some information?

i run DVB-S2 (with HD+ via unicam evo) on libreelec/kodi with vdr since
quite a while (using a DVBSky 960C USB receiver) ...

seems most apps and drivers are not up to par yet with the new T2
standard but perhaps this helps:
http://www.vdr-wiki.de/wiki/index.php/VDR_mit_DVB-T2_zu_Fuss

note that you will likely not (yet) be able to see any of the encrypted
stations at all though.

ciao
        oli
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Re: Success with German DVB-T2?

Nils Kassube-2
In reply to this post by Ingolf Steinbach
Ingolf Steinbach wrote:

> 2017-03-02 22:38 GMT+01:00 Nils Kassube <[hidden email]>:
> > dvbstream -f 754000 -o 8192 | vlc -
>
> Unfortunately that did not work either.
>
> Tuning to 754000 Hz
> VLC media player 2.2.4 Weatherwax (revision 2.2.3-37-g888b7e89)
> Using DVB card "Silicon Labs Si2168", freq=754000
> tuning DVB-T (in United Kingdom) to 754000000 Hz, Bandwidth: 8
> Getting frontend status
> [...]
> Not able to lock to the signal on the given frequency

Hmm, that doesn't look so good.

> Thanks anyway. Does "locking to the signal" already require the
> ability to decode HEVC/H.265?

No, the hardware should lock to the signal, no matter what is
transmitted with the transport stream. The receiver hardware decodes the
QAM signal and does the error correction and then it sends the entire
transport stream to the PC. The HEVC decoding is the job of the media
player (vlc in this case).

The dvbstream program selects the frequency (option "-f 754000" in the
command above) and receives the entire transport stream from the
receiver. Then it selects the wanted PIDs of a single or several program
streams and outputs it to stdout (-o). However I don't know the
available PIDs, so I used the wildcard PID 8192 which lets dvbstream
output the entire transport stream. But as the receiver doesn't lock to
the signal, there is no transport stream sent to the media player.

However there is one thing I haven't found out so far: The freenet TV
platform is supposed to transmit encrypted data for the private stations
and I don't know which part of the reception chain does the decryption.
The current preliminary DVB-T2 transmitter has two stations (Das Erste
HD and ZDF HD) which are supposed to be freely receivable and four
private stations which are probably already encrypted. So if the entire
transport stream is encrypted, I would assume that the decryption is a
part of the receiver hardware and due to the lack of a decryption module
your receiver may not be able to lock to the signal. If this assumption
is correct, you would have to wait until all the transmitters are
transmitting DVB-T2. Then the free stations will be on their own
unencrypted transmitters.


Nils


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Re: Success with German DVB-T2?

Grizzly-4
In reply to this post by Ingolf Steinbach
03 March 2017  at 10:45, Ingolf Steinbach wrote:
Re: Success with German DVB-T2? (at least in part)

>Hi Nils.

You could try Kaffeine, works on my DVB out of the box

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Re: Success with German DVB-T2?

Ingolf Steinbach
In reply to this post by Nils Kassube-2
Olivier, Nils,

thanks for this information. The link to the VDR wiki seems promising;
and maybe Nils' guess wrt encryption could be an explanation.
Unfortunately there is only sparse information on the unencrypted
programs (which are the only ones I am interested in). You only get
the information that you need components with the "DVB-T2 HD" logo if
you want to receive the *encrypted* programs. I have yet to find some
statement if you really need CI+ support if you want to watch the
unencrypted programs only.


This is what w_scan reports:
[...]
Scanning DVB-T...
[...]
474000: (time: 00:16.736)         signal ok:    QAM_AUTO f = 474000
kHz I999B8C999D999T999G999Y999 (0:0:0)
       QAM_AUTO f = 474000 kHz I999B8C999D999T999G999Y999 (0:0:0) :
updating transport_stream_id: -> (0:0:14849)
       QAM_AUTO f = 474000 kHz I999B8C999D999T999G999Y999 (0:0:14849)
: updating network_id -> (0:12346:14849)
       QAM_AUTO f = 474000 kHz I999B8C999D999T999G999Y999
(0:12346:14849) : updating original_network_id -> (8468:12346:14849)
       updating transponder:
          (QAM_AUTO f = 474000 kHz I999B8C999D999T999G999Y999
(8468:12346:14849)) 0x0000
       to (QAM_64   f = 474000 kHz I999B8C23D0T8G4Y0 (8468:12346:14849)) 0x405A
[...]
Scanning DVB-T2...
[...]
474000: skipped (already known transponder)
[...]
754000: (time: 03:23.585)         signal ok:    QAM_AUTO f = 754000
kHz I999B8C999D999T999G999Y999P0 (0:0:0)
       QAM_AUTO f = 754000 kHz I999B8C999D999T999G999Y999P0 (0:0:0) :
updating transport_stream_id: -> (0:0:16481)
       QAM_AUTO f = 754000 kHz I999B8C999D999T999G999Y999P0
(0:0:16481) : updating network_id -> (0:12352:16481)
       QAM_AUTO f = 754000 kHz I999B8C999D999T999G999Y999P0
(0:12352:16481) : updating original_network_id -> (8468:12352:16481)
       updating transponder:
          (QAM_AUTO f = 754000 kHz I999B8C999D999T999G999Y999P0
(8468:12352:16481)) 0x0000
       to (QAM_AUTO f = 650000 kHz I999B8C999D999T32G16Y999P0
(8468:12352:16481)) 0x4004
       new transponder: (QAM_AUTO f = 722000 kHz I999B8C0D0T32G16Y0P1
(8468:12352:16497)) 0x4004
[...]
tune to: QAM_64   f = 474000 kHz I999B8C23D0T8G4Y0 (8468:12346:14849)
(time: 03:51.457)
       new transponder: (QAM_16   f =      0 kHz I999B8C23D0T8G4Y0
(8468:12336:12290)) 0x415A
       service = Das Erste (ARD)
       service = ONE (ARD)
       service = arte (ARD)
       service = PHOENIX (ARD)
       new transponder: (QAM_16   f =      0 kHz I999B8C23D0T8G4Y0
(8468:12298:2561)) 0x415A
       new transponder: (QAM_16   f =      0 kHz I999B8C23D0T8G8Y0
(8468:12289:257)) 0x415A
       new transponder: (QAM_16   f =      0 kHz I999B8C23D0T8G8Y0
(8468:12289:258)) 0x415A
       new transponder: (QAM_16   f =      0 kHz I999B8C23D0T8G4Y0
(8468:12440:38912)) 0x415A
       new transponder: (QAM_16   f =      0 kHz I999B8C23D0T8G4Y0
(8468:12368:20481)) 0x415A
       new transponder: (QAM_16   f =      0 kHz I999B8C34D0T8G4Y0
(8468:12361:18689)) 0x415A
[...]
tune to: QAM_AUTO f = 650000 kHz I999B8C999D999T32G16Y999P0
(8468:12352:16481) (time: 04:34.122)
----------no signal----------
tune to: QAM_AUTO f = 650000 kHz I999B8C999D999T999G999Y999P0
(8468:12352:16481) (time: 04:40.218)  (no signal)
----------no signal----------
tune to: QAM_AUTO f = 722000 kHz I999B8C0D0T32G16Y0P1
(8468:12352:16497) (time: 04:46.278)
----------no signal----------
tune to: QAM_AUTO f = 722000 kHz I999B8C999D0T999G999Y0P1
(8468:12352:16497) (time: 04:52.326)  (no signal)
----------no signal----------
retrying with center_frequency = 538000000
tune to: QAM_16   f = 538000 kHz I999B8C23D0T8G4Y0 (8468:12336:12290)
(time: 04:58.374)
----------no signal----------
tune to: QAM_AUTO f = 538000 kHz I999B8C999D0T999G999Y0
(8468:12336:12290) (time: 05:04.422)  (no signal)
----------no signal----------
retrying with center_frequency = 682000000
[...]


(In fact, there are 8 more DVB-T services than the four shown above,
but I left them out on purpose.)

What I don't understand is this: All (traditional) DVB-T transponders
show an entry "updating transponder: something to something_else" but
with the same frequency; the only DVB-T2 transponder (@754000) is for
some reason updated to f=650000 kHz, and then a new transponder
@722000 is reported. And I do not see an attempt to "tune to: QAM_xyz
f = 754000".

Ingolf

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Re: Success with German DVB-T2?

Nils Kassube-2
Ingolf Steinbach wrote:
> and maybe Nils' guess wrt encryption could be an explanation.

Well, I think this excerpt from
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Interface> confirms it:

| As the full MPEG-2 transport data stream comes out of the demodulator,
| and error correction units, the DTV Receiver sends it through the card
| plugged into the Common Interface, before it is processed by the MPEG
| demultiplexer in the receiver.

While this snippet describes a standard receiver, not a USB or PCIe
component for a PC, the data path should be the same. With a PC the MPEG
demultiplexer is done in software, e.g. by vlc.

> Unfortunately there is only sparse information on the unencrypted
> programs (which are the only ones I am interested in). You only get
> the information that you need components with the "DVB-T2 HD" logo if
> you want to receive the *encrypted* programs. I have yet to find some
> statement if you really need CI+ support if you want to watch the
> unencrypted programs only.

On the product page of one DVB-T2 USB or PCIe receiver was the info that
you can use it for the German free chanels if you use a HEVC capable
media player - and maybe they even promised to deliver such a media
player in the future. So there is some hope that you don't need CI+
support. Of course the info was related to their Windows program. Sorry,
I don't remember the details (not even the receiver type) but it was not
supported by Linux anyway, so I didn't really care.


Nils


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Re: Success with German DVB-T2?

Oliver Grawert
In reply to this post by Ingolf Steinbach
hi,
Am Freitag, den 03.03.2017, 14:59 +0100 schrieb Ingolf Steinbach:

> Olivier, Nils,
>
> thanks for this information. The link to the VDR wiki seems
> promising;
> and maybe Nils' guess wrt encryption could be an explanation.
> Unfortunately there is only sparse information on the unencrypted
> programs (which are the only ones I am interested in). You only get
> the information that you need components with the "DVB-T2 HD" logo if
> you want to receive the *encrypted* programs. I have yet to find some
> statement if you really need CI+ support if you want to watch the
> unencrypted programs only.
if it works in any way equally to HD+ on DVB-S2 (which i would actually
expect, after all it is just a different transport mechanism for an
equal setup) all the free to air channels should work without any cards
or even requiring CI or CI+ ...

ciao
        oli
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