Sugar desktop on Focal

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Sugar desktop on Focal

James Cameron
G'day,

Thanks for offering to be a "point of contact for upstream developers
to reach Ubuntu developers."

I'm an upstream developer for the Sugar desktop.

Sugar isn't in Focal at the moment, due to Python 3 transition and
Debian packages not ready.

If any Ubuntu developers would like to fix that, I've a reprepro package
repository with enough to get Sugar working well on Focal;

http://dev.laptop.org/~quozl/.us/

Hope that can help!

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Re: Sugar desktop on Focal

Dimitri John Ledkov
Hi,

On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 at 11:31, James Cameron <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> G'day,
>
> Thanks for offering to be a "point of contact for upstream developers
> to reach Ubuntu developers."
>
> I'm an upstream developer for the Sugar desktop.
>
> Sugar isn't in Focal at the moment, due to Python 3 transition and
> Debian packages not ready.
>
> If any Ubuntu developers would like to fix that, I've a reprepro package
> repository with enough to get Sugar working well on Focal;
>
> http://dev.laptop.org/~quozl/.us/

Is this a request for sponsorship into Debian or into Ubuntu or both?

That repo has a lot of packages, do you have at least a list of source packages

I see for example higher versions than in your repository, shipped in
debian experimental. I.e.  sugar 2.0.1-1~exp1 is that not ready? or
what is it? Should 0.116 be packaged instead? Or like should we sync
sugar stuff from experimental?

I'd rather prefer getting everything working with python3 correctly in
either debian experimental or debian unstable and syncing from there.
Is there anything stopping from dropping python2 support in unstable?

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Re: Sugar desktop on Focal

Erich Eickmeyer-2
Hi Dmitri,

On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 3:52 pm, Dimitri John Ledkov <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi, On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 at 11:31, James Cameron <[hidden email]> wrote:
G'day, Thanks for offering to be a "point of contact for upstream developers to reach Ubuntu developers." I'm an upstream developer for the Sugar desktop. Sugar isn't in Focal at the moment, due to Python 3 transition and Debian packages not ready. If any Ubuntu developers would like to fix that, I've a reprepro package repository with enough to get Sugar working well on Focal; http://dev.laptop.org/~quozl/.us/
Is this a request for sponsorship into Debian or into Ubuntu or both? That repo has a lot of packages, do you have at least a list of source packages I see for example higher versions than in your repository, shipped in debian experimental. I.e. sugar 2.0.1-1~exp1 is that not ready? or what is it? Should 0.116 be packaged instead? Or like should we sync sugar stuff from experimental? I'd rather prefer getting everything working with python3 correctly in either debian experimental or debian unstable and syncing from there. Is there anything stopping from dropping python2 support in unstable?

Sorry to interject, and with all due respect, but at this point it's pretty late in the game to expect anything to get done in Debian in time for feature freeze/Debian import freeze in just under two weeks. This is why, when Ardour was removed from the repos, I was quite flustered and ended up fixing it myself; I can't rely on anything getting done in Debian in time for Focal even as early as January. It's just a gamble I was unwilling to take.

That said, I don't blame James one bit for reaching out directly. I think he's looking for Ubuntu sponsorship here, hence the Ubuntu mailing list.

He can correct me if I'm wrong, but at this point in the cycle I think haste is an important expectation, and relying on Debian to do anything in time for the next freeze would be misplaced trust in my experience. I realize there are exceptions, but that's not always something one can count on. I've been down that road before, and it hasn't turned out well.

Just my thoughts.
Erich
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Ubuntu Studio

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Re: Sugar desktop on Focal

Dimitri John Ledkov
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 at 16:28, Erich Eickmeyer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Sorry to interject, and with all due respect, but at this point it's pretty late in the game to expect anything to get done in Debian in time for feature freeze/Debian import freeze in just under two weeks.

Apart from that I am both a Debian Developer, who can upload things
into Debian with QA and Python team hats, or NMUs, and Ubuntu Core Dev
to sync them to Ubuntu simultaneously. Thus can sponsor things from
anywhere to anywhere really.

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Re: Sugar desktop on Focal

James Cameron
Thanks for answering.

Dimitri, I don't know enough about sponsorship to know if this is a
request for sponsorship, but previously Debian did package Sugar, and
in consequence Ubuntu made it available.  That has changed, and I
don't know why, but I guess it is because people are too busy.

The focal distribution in my repository has these source packages;

python3-gwebsockets
sugar-toolkit-gtk3
sugar-artwork
sugar-datastore
sugar-browse-activity
sugar-terminal-activity
sugar

... at this point an install of Sugar works, and the remaining
packages are some of the children's activities ...

sugar-calculate-activity
sugar-chat-activity
sugar-clock-activity
sugar-imageviewer-activity
sugar-jukebox-activity
sugar-log-activity
sugar-measure-activity
sugar-pippy-activity
sugar-portfolio-activity
sugar-read-activity
sugar-record-activity
sugar-stopwatch-activity
sugar-story-activity
sugar-write-activity

... and more will be added.

There's no sugar 2.0.1-1~exp1 that I can find.  That's not a version
number we've used, so it is probably another software package.

Python 2 support can certainly be dropped.  (Will cause many
children's activity bundles to stop working.  So I'm having to support
that use of Python 2 myself; not your problem).

Erich's assessment is correct.  I've lost hope.  I'm doing it myself,
but I'm not following the standards.

I expect the best use of my packaging to Debian or Ubuntu would be a
head-start on the build and run-time dependencies.

Debian Testing and Experimental has Sugar Toolkit 0.116 and Sugar
0.112, an incompatible combination that doesn't start due missing
imports.

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Re: Sugar desktop on Focal

Colin Watson
On Sat, Feb 15, 2020 at 06:53:06AM +1100, James Cameron wrote:
> Dimitri, I don't know enough about sponsorship to know if this is a
> request for sponsorship, but previously Debian did package Sugar, and
> in consequence Ubuntu made it available.  That has changed, and I
> don't know why, but I guess it is because people are too busy.

You can always look at
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<source-package-name>/+publishinghistory
to see what happened.  For instance:

  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sugar/+publishinghistory

... expand the "Deleted" row for focal at the top and you see the
removal reason:

  "remove sugar, depending on pygtk"

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Re: Sugar desktop on Focal

James Cameron
On Sat, Feb 15, 2020 at 01:10:41PM +0000, Colin Watson wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 15, 2020 at 06:53:06AM +1100, James Cameron wrote:
> > Dimitri, I don't know enough about sponsorship to know if this is
> > a request for sponsorship, but previously Debian did package
> > Sugar, and in consequence Ubuntu made it available.  That has
> > changed, and I don't know why, but I guess it is because people
> > are too busy.
>
> You can always look at
> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<source-package-name>/+publishinghistory
> to see what happened.  For instance:
>
>   https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sugar/+publishinghistory
>
> ... expand the "Deleted" row for focal at the top and you see the
> removal reason:
>
>   "remove sugar, depending on pygtk"

Thanks, I'll keep an eye on that page.

Depending on pygtk was fixed many years ago; we ported to GTK 3.

Depending on Python 2 was fixed last year; we ported to Python 3.

I guess people too busy.

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