Synaptic without broadband Internet

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Synaptic without broadband Internet

Alban Crequy-3
Hi all,

One of my friend want to switch from Windows to Ubuntu but he has not
broadband Internet (only 3kB/s). So he cannot use Synaptic or apt-get
to install big software like eclipse.

He used to download big software for Windows at work, where he has
broadband Internet. Then he burns a CD and installs the software at
home on Windows. Often all dependencies are inside the "install.exe"
program.

On Ubuntu, he has to download the .deb files from
http://packages.ubuntu.com/ at work and follow dependancies manually
and hope not to forget something.

I would like a new feature in Synaptic: instead of downloading .deb
files and installing the packages, I would like Synaptic to generate a
list of URL to download. Then my friend would go to work and download
these files, burn a CD and run again Synaptic. Synaptic would find the
.deb files on the CD.

Is there an easy method (GUI) to do that in Ubuntu 5.10, or is it
planned for dapper or dapper +1 ?

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Re: Synaptic without broadband Internet

Christopher Houdeshell
Alban Crequy wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>One of my friend want to switch from Windows to Ubuntu but he has not
>broadband Internet (only 3kB/s). So he cannot use Synaptic or apt-get
>to install big software like eclipse.
>
>He used to download big software for Windows at work, where he has
>broadband Internet. Then he burns a CD and installs the software at
>home on Windows. Often all dependencies are inside the "install.exe"
>program.
>
>On Ubuntu, he has to download the .deb files from
>http://packages.ubuntu.com/ at work and follow dependancies manually
>and hope not to forget something.
>
>I would like a new feature in Synaptic: instead of downloading .deb
>files and installing the packages, I would like Synaptic to generate a
>list of URL to download. Then my friend would go to work and download
>these files, burn a CD and run again Synaptic. Synaptic would find the
>.deb files on the CD.
>
>Is there an easy method (GUI) to do that in Ubuntu 5.10, or is it
>planned for dapper or dapper +1 ?
>
>--
>Alban
>  
>
Can't you calculate the dependencies with apt-get?


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Re: Synaptic without broadband Internet

Lee Revell
In reply to this post by Alban Crequy-3
On Mon, 2006-02-13 at 20:13 +0100, Alban Crequy wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> One of my friend want to switch from Windows to Ubuntu but he has not
> broadband Internet (only 3kB/s). So he cannot use Synaptic or apt-get
> to install big software like eclipse.
>
> He used to download big software for Windows at work, where he has
> broadband Internet. Then he burns a CD and installs the software at
> home on Windows. Often all dependencies are inside the "install.exe"
> program.
>
> On Ubuntu, he has to download the .deb files from
> http://packages.ubuntu.com/ at work and follow dependancies manually
> and hope not to forget something.
>
> I would like a new feature in Synaptic: instead of downloading .deb
> files and installing the packages, I would like Synaptic to generate a
> list of URL to download. Then my friend would go to work and download
> these files, burn a CD and run again Synaptic. Synaptic would find the
> .deb files on the CD.
>
> Is there an easy method (GUI) to do that in Ubuntu 5.10, or is it
> planned for dapper or dapper +1 ?

Why not just download the .isos?

Lee


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Re: Synaptic without broadband Internet

Jan Claeys-3
In reply to this post by Alban Crequy-3
Op ma, 13-02-2006 te 20:13 +0100, schreef Alban Crequy:
> I would like a new feature in Synaptic: instead of downloading .deb
> files and installing the packages, I would like Synaptic to generate a
> list of URL to download. Then my friend would go to work and download
> these files, burn a CD and run again Synaptic. Synaptic would find the
> .deb files on the CD.
>
> Is there an easy method (GUI) to do that in Ubuntu 5.10, or is it
> planned for dapper or dapper +1 ?

On my "dapper" system synaptic has 2 options in the File menu:
- Generate package download script
- Install downloaded packages

>From the changelog, this seems to be added since version 0.57.7.

Sounds like that's what you're looking after?  :-)


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Re: Synaptic without broadband Internet

Wouter Stomp
On 2/13/06, Jan Claeys <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On my "dapper" system synaptic has 2 options in the File menu:
> - Generate package download script
> - Install downloaded packages
>
> >From the changelog, this seems to be added since version 0.57.7.
>
> Sounds like that's what you're looking after?  :-)
>
>

Not very useful if he is running windows at work, which is more likely
than linux. It would be nice to have a server based solution for this:
You select the program you want, select which distribution tou have
(ubuntu, kubuntu, version etc.) and it gives you a list of files or
preferably one file containing all files to download which can then
later be easily installed on ubuntu. This will sometimes lead to some
extra downloading of packages that you might already have installed,
but would be by far the easiest to use.

Wouter.

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Re: Synaptic without broadband Internet

Sandis Neilands
Hello!

On 2/13/06, Wouter Stomp <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2/13/06, Jan Claeys <[hidden email]> wrote:
Not very useful if he is running windows at work, which is more likely
than linux. It would be nice to have a server based solution for this:
You select the program you want, select which distribution tou have
(ubuntu, kubuntu, version etc.) and it gives you a list of files or
preferably one file containing all files to download which can then
later be easily installed on ubuntu. This will sometimes lead to some
extra downloading of packages that you might already have installed,
but would be by far the easiest to use.

Such a web service would be most welcome! As for dependencies, isn't it possible to generate list of all installed packages? If it is then we could just feed the server with this file and it would calculate dependencies itself (don't know if this wouldn't actually kill the server:)

Untill then you might be interested in those wiki pages.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AptMoveHowto
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PersonalRepositories
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Re: Synaptic without broadband Internet

Wouter Stomp
On 2/13/06, Sandis Neilands <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Such a web service would be most welcome! As for dependencies, isn't it
> possible to generate list of all installed packages? If it is then we could
> just feed the server with this file and it would calculate dependencies
> itself (don't know if this wouldn't actually kill the server:)
>

Probably very well possible but it does mean one extra step. For ease
of use it would be nice to offer both as a choice.

See also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NonBroadbandUsers

Wouter.

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Re: Synaptic without broadband Internet

Paul Sladen-2
In reply to this post by Alban Crequy-3
On Mon, 13 Feb 2006, Alban Crequy wrote:
> I would like a new feature in Synaptic: instead of downloading .deb
> files and installing the packages, I would like Synaptic to generate a
> list of URL to download.

  $ apt-get install --print-uris -y packagename

        -Paul
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Re: Synaptic without broadband Internet

Michael Vogt-4
In reply to this post by Alban Crequy-3
On Mon, Feb 13, 2006 at 08:13:23PM +0100, Alban Crequy wrote:
[..]
> I would like a new feature in Synaptic: instead of downloading .deb
> files and installing the packages, I would like Synaptic to generate a
> list of URL to download. Then my friend would go to work and download
> these files, burn a CD and run again Synaptic. Synaptic would find the
> .deb files on the CD.

Thanks for this suggestions. Synaptic in dapper already has a feature
like this. It can generate download scripts for packages and import
the downloaded packages in a secure way (checking the md5sums of the
importet debs against the Packages list).

The problem is that it currently only exports a script that uses wget
to fetch the packages [1]. I would be very interessted in suggestions
for a free (preferable as in speech) tool for windows (maybe with a
nice progressbar gui) that can be feed with a list of urls and that
downloads them into the current dir. This way the synaptic download
script could offer a choice to generate a script for windows users as
well.

Suggestions (via private mail, no need to send this to the list) are
very welcome (and examples what a windows script must look like
etc). I was in contact with the hyperget people asking for a java
based solution but haven't got code yet.

Cheers,
 Michael

[1] Apparently wget exists for window so it might even be enough.
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Re: Synaptic without broadband Internet

Adam Conrad-3
Michael Vogt wrote:
>
> [1] Apparently wget exists for window so it might even be enough.

Indeed, wget does exist for Windows (it's used in the Windows version of
jigdo, for instance), so as long as you're producing either a script
that works as both a shell script or batch file, or producing one of
each, then you're done.  Assuming you tell people where to find wget. :)

... Adam

(Of course, that doesn't really get you the "pretty GUI with progress
bars", but baby steps...)

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Re: Synaptic without broadband Internet

Carlos Ribeiro
In reply to this post by Michael Vogt-4
On 2/14/06, Michael Vogt <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, Feb 13, 2006 at 08:13:23PM +0100, Alban Crequy wrote:
[..]
> I would like a new feature in Synaptic: instead of downloading .deb
> files and installing the packages, I would like Synaptic to generate a
> list of URL to download. Then my friend would go to work and download
> these files, burn a CD and run again Synaptic. Synaptic would find the
> .deb files on the CD.

Thanks for this suggestions. Synaptic in dapper already has a feature
like this. It can generate download scripts for packages and import
the downloaded packages in a secure way (checking the md5sums of the
importet debs against the Packages list).

The problem is that it currently only exports a script that uses wget
to fetch the packages [1]. I would be very interessted in suggestions
for a free (preferable as in speech) tool for windows (maybe with a
nice progressbar gui) that can be feed with a list of urls and that
downloads them into the current dir. This way the synaptic download
script could offer a choice to generate a script for windows users as
well.

Suggestion: generate a XML file with all the upgrade information, including the relevant links and the MD5 checksum. The actual dependency information isn't needed but could be mapped anyway (as long as it does not clutter the XML file). The XML file can be sent by mail or copied and read by Internet Explorer or Firefox under Windows; I believe (I didn't test) that it will be displayed, and that the links can be right clicked for the download to proceed.

For import, Synaptic can read a directory with a bunch of DEB files and the relevant XML file. Synaptic then could check the XML file, read all the DEBs, and check the MD5's for consistency.

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blog: http://rascunhosrotos.blogspot.com
blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
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mail: [hidden email]


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Re: Synaptic without broadband Internet

Toni Pizà
In reply to this post by Adam Conrad-3
IMHO, the best solution is to provide (to those users who only had a Windows-based system with broadband, because unfortunatelly a lot of people is in this situation) a program that works fine in Windows and doesn't need a petition to the Synaptic or another GNU/Linux application.

I'm going to try to explain me better, because my english is horrible :P. What I'm trying to say is that we need a application that could run over Windows, where you can choose your distribution and the package that you want to install, and the application must download the package, and all his dependences (don't matter if it's a deb, a rpm or another package type), putting them together in a single file (maybe a compressed .tar?), joining a script made by the application that allows the user to install all the dependences and the program with a simple execution. Then the user could move the file with all the packages from Windows to his GNU/Linux system, and install them with the script.

Of course, this should be done too for the GNU/Linux systems, but we don't should forget the poor half-Windows users. I can not do the work, because I'm just a noob, but this doesn't seem too much difficult, doesn't it?

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Re: Synaptic without broadband Internet

Marco Cabizza
Il giorno mar, 14/02/2006 alle 17.59 +0100, Toni Pizà ha scritto:

> IMHO, the best solution is to provide (to those users who only had a
> Windows-based system with broadband, because unfortunatelly a lot of
> people is in this situation) a program that works fine in Windows and
> doesn't need a petition to the Synaptic or another GNU/Linux
> application.
>
> I'm going to try to explain me better, because my english is
> horrible :P. What I'm trying to say is that we need a application that
> could run over Windows, where you can choose your distribution and the
> package that you want to install, and the application must download
> the package, and all his dependences (don't matter if it's a deb, a
> rpm or another package type), putting them together in a single file
> (maybe a compressed .tar?), joining a script made by the application
> that allows the user to install all the dependences and the program
> with a simple execution. Then the user could move the file with all
> the packages from Windows to his GNU/Linux system, and install them
> with the script.
>
> Of course, this should be done too for the GNU/Linux systems, but we
> don't should forget the poor half-Windows users. I can not do the
> work, because I'm just a noob, but this doesn't seem too much
> difficult, doesn't it?
>
> --
> "Two of the most famous products of Berkeley are LSD and Unix. I don't
> think that this is a coincidence."
> http://servomac.blogspot.com

It would be easier to create a script who creates a local apt
repository, providing with the existence of a .deb "smart fetcher" under
windows.

~marco


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Re: Synaptic without broadband Internet

Lee Revell
In reply to this post by Toni Pizà
On Tue, 2006-02-14 at 17:59 +0100, Toni Pizà wrote:

> IMHO, the best solution is to provide (to those users who only had a
> Windows-based system with broadband, because unfortunatelly a lot of
> people is in this situation) a program that works fine in Windows and
> doesn't need a petition to the Synaptic or another GNU/Linux
> application.
>
> I'm going to try to explain me better, because my english is
> horrible :P. What I'm trying to say is that we need a application that
> could run over Windows, where you can choose your distribution and the
> package that you want to install, and the application must download
> the package, and all his dependences (don't matter if it's a deb, a
> rpm or another package type), putting them together in a single file
> (maybe a compressed .tar?), joining a script made by the application
> that allows the user to install all the dependences and the program
> with a simple execution. Then the user could move the file with all
> the packages from Windows to his GNU/Linux system, and install them
> with the script.
>
> Of course, this should be done too for the GNU/Linux systems, but we
> don't should forget the poor half-Windows users. I can not do the
> work, because I'm just a noob, but this doesn't seem too much
> difficult, doesn't it?

Won't this work right now with Cygwin?

Lee


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Re: Synaptic without broadband Internet

Marco Cabizza
> Won't this work right now with Cygwin?
>

Maybe, but Cygwin is not suitable for a "general" solution as it's not
the most user-friendly choice at all, unless this is not a problem :)

~marco


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Re: Synaptic without broadband Internet

Lee Revell
On Tue, 2006-02-14 at 18:58 +0100, Marco Cabizza wrote:
> > Won't this work right now with Cygwin?
> >
>
> Maybe, but Cygwin is not suitable for a "general" solution as it's not
> the most user-friendly choice at all, unless this is not a problem :)

Anyone who's willing to install Linux should not be scared of Cygwin.
Besides, it's easy to install: Start->Run->http://cygwin.com/setup.exe,
then just click a bunch of times.

Lee


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Re: Synaptic without broadband Internet

Duncan Lithgow
In reply to this post by Toni Pizà
Toni Pizà wrote:
> IMHO, the best solution is to provide (to those users who only had a
> Windows-based system with broadband, because unfortunatelly a lot of
> people is in this situation) a program that works fine in Windows and
> doesn't need a petition to the Synaptic or another GNU/Linux application.
Surely (as others have said) a server based solution would be best.
Select the parameters, you get a list of files, download them. One is a
bash script which installs the others.

Bit of work of course, but a real bonus for linux - the current software
situation for non broadband linux users is pretty messy.

Duncan

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Re: Synaptic without broadband Internet

Jan Claeys-3
In reply to this post by Wouter Stomp
Op ma, 13-02-2006 te 21:28 +0100, schreef Wouter Stomp:
> On 2/13/06, Jan Claeys <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On my "dapper" system synaptic has 2 options in the File menu:
> > - Generate package download script
> > - Install downloaded packages

> Not very useful if he is running windows at work, which is more likely
> than linux.

Save that script from Synaptic with a .bat extension, drop it in the
same directory as a copy of wget.exe for Windows and it will Just
Work™...   :-)


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Re: Synaptic without broadband Internet

Carlos Ribeiro
On 2/14/06, Jan Claeys <[hidden email]> wrote:
Op ma, 13-02-2006 te 21:28 +0100, schreef Wouter Stomp:
> On 2/13/06, Jan Claeys <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On my "dapper" system synaptic has 2 options in the File menu:
> > - Generate package download script
> > - Install downloaded packages

> Not very useful if he is running windows at work, which is more likely
> than linux.

Save that script from Synaptic with a .bat extension, drop it in the
same directory as a copy of wget.exe for Windows and it will Just
Work™...   :-)

There's one thing missing: synaptic (or apt-get) will check the MD5 signatures of the downloaded files. Not a *big* problem but something to look after anyway.

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blog: http://pythonnotes.blogspot.com
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Re: Synaptic without broadband Internet

John Nilsson
In reply to this post by Carlos Ribeiro
On Tue, 2006-02-14 at 14:43 -0200, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:
> Suggestion: generate a XML file with all the upgrade information,
> including the relevant links and the MD5 checksum.

Better yet, a digitally signed list of MD5s.

Why XML?



Some suggestions from me. (work == place with high speed internet)


Web service
===========

User has slow internet at home.

At home user tells synaptic to make a repository-file on a web service.
A link to the repository-file can be sent to a mail account using this
dialog.

        The web service takes a list of URI's and generates a repository
        with those packages.

At work user can download the repository from the web service.


Helper app
==========

User has no internet at home.

At home user tells synaptic to make a package fetcher for windows. Gets
a .exe that can be mailed or put on a floppy.

At work user runs the .exe which downloads and composes a repository.
This repository also includes an updated list of available packages.
It's also possible to for the .exe to calculate what packages to
download for a complete upgrade using this new list.



Regards,
John


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