Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

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Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

ubuntu-users mailing list
Hello.
My Pc had the following partitioning:
70GB (Win 7) , 60GB (Win8) και 568 GB (Data), all partitions NTFS.
I could do normal dual booting as usual.
Then I installed Ubuntu 16.04 and the partitioning  became:
 70GB (Linux-ext4) , 60GB (Win8 NTFS) και 568 GB-NTFS.
But the only choices at grub menu are : Ubuntu, advanced with Ubuntu and mem tests.
No option for Windows at all. I need Windows because I use them some thirty years ago etc etc...

So i run the fdisk -l and the output is:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
manos@manos-TURBO-X-Laptop:~$ sudo fdisk -l
[sudo] password for manos:
Disk /dev/sda: 698,7 GiB, 750156374016 bytes, 1465149168 sectors
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disklabel type: dos
Disk identifier: 0x26bd3833

Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
/dev/sda1 * 2048 148062594 148060547 70,6G 83 Linux
/dev/sda2 148064254 1465145343 1317081090 628G f W95 Ext'd (LBA)
/dev/sda5 148064256 1339246591 1191182336 568G 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sda6 1339248640 1465145343 125896704 60G 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT


manos@manos-TURBO-X-Laptop:~$
---------------------------------------------------------------------



 So the question is the following: According to this output is at the disk a correct and usefull  win8 partition or not ;
In other words does this disk contains two kernels or just one -that of linux ?
Thanks a lot friends.

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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

Ralf Mardorf-2
On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 09:45:59 +0000 (UTC), Manolis L. wrote:
>Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
>/dev/sda1 * 2048 148062594 148060547 70,6G 83 Linux
>/dev/sda2 148064254 1465145343 1317081090 628G f W95 Ext'd (LBA)
>/dev/sda5 148064256 1339246591 1191182336 568G 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
>/dev/sda6 1339248640 1465145343 125896704 60G 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
>
>So the question is the following: According to this output is at the
>disk a correct and usefull  win8 partition or not

Hi,

most likely you didn't lost Windows 8. You first could try to
automatically generate the missing Windows chainload entry. This not
necessarily is all you need to do, but it could be all that you have
to do.

If you google for something like

  ubuntu windows missing in grub menu

the first hints recommend to run

  sudo update-grub

;).

Regards,
Ralf



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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

ubuntu-users mailing list
Hi
Thanks Ralf. It is a relief to know that Windows partition is in place.
For the moment let's forget about grub and grub menu and look for a simpler remedy.
Is there any way using "external means" e.g. Ubuntu live CD to start the Windows OS ?

Thanks again.



From: Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 09:45:59 +0000 (UTC), Manolis L. wrote:
>Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
>/dev/sda1 * 2048 148062594 148060547 70,6G 83 Linux
>/dev/sda2 148064254 1465145343 1317081090 628G f W95 Ext'd (LBA)
>/dev/sda5 148064256 1339246591 1191182336 568G 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
>/dev/sda6 1339248640 1465145343 125896704 60G 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
>
>So the question is the following: According to this output is at the
>disk a correct and usefull  win8 partition or not

Hi,

most likely you didn't lost Windows 8. You first could try to
automatically generate the missing Windows chainload entry. This not
necessarily is all you need to do, but it could be all that you have
to do.

If you google for something like

  ubuntu windows missing in grub menu

the first hints recommend to run

  sudo update-grub

;).

Regards,
Ralf




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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

Liam Proven
On 30 October 2017 at 12:46, Manolis L. via ubuntu-users
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi
> Thanks Ralf. It is a relief to know that Windows partition is in place.
> For the moment let's forget about grub and grub menu and look for a simpler
> remedy.
> Is there any way using "external means" e.g. Ubuntu live CD to start the
> Windows OS ?

He is giving you the simple way.


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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

Xen
In reply to this post by ubuntu-users mailing list
Manolis L. via ubuntu-users schreef op 30-10-2017 10:45:

> Hello.
> My Pc had the following partitioning:
> 70GB (Win 7) , 60GB (Win8) και 568 GB (Data), all partitions NTFS.
> I could do normal dual booting as usual.
> Then I installed Ubuntu 16.04 and the partitioning  became:
> 70GB (Linux-ext4) , 60GB (Win8 NTFS) και 568 GB-NTFS.
> But the only choices at grub menu are : Ubuntu, advanced with Ubuntu
> and mem tests.
> No option for Windows at all. I need Windows because I use them some
> thirty years ago etc etc...

Windows 8 was probably listed in the BCD (boot configuration database?)
of your Windows 7 partition.

What you can try is entering a Grub prompt at bootup (or press E to edit
an exiting one and then change it but I'm sure you can get a prompt?)

And try the "ntld" command.

You can search for this command in the Grub help.

Something like:

insmod msdos
insmod ntfs
set root=(hd0,1)
ntld (hd0,1)

I don't know, could work.

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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

Xen
In reply to this post by ubuntu-users mailing list
Oh this appears to be the sequence, sorry.


insmod part_msdos
insmod ntldr
insmod ntfs
ntldr (hd0,msdos1)/bootmgr



But part_msdos could be just msdos

So the final command would be

ntldr (hd0,msdos2)/bootmgr

But give it a shot.

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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

J. L.-2
In reply to this post by ubuntu-users mailing list
On 30.10.2017 10:45, Manolis L. via ubuntu-users wrote:

> Hello.
> My Pc had the following partitioning:
> 70GB (Win 7) , 60GB (Win8) και 568 GB (Data), all partitions NTFS.
> I could do normal dual booting as usual.
> Then I installed Ubuntu 16.04 and the partitioning  became:
>  70GB (Linux-ext4) , 60GB (Win8 NTFS) και 568 GB-NTFS.
> But the only choices at grub menu are : Ubuntu, advanced with Ubuntu and mem tests.
> No option for Windows at all. I need Windows because I use them some thirty years ago etc etc...
>
> So i run the fdisk -l and the output is:
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> manos@manos-TURBO-X-Laptop:~$ sudo fdisk -l
> [sudo] password for manos:
> Disk /dev/sda: 698,7 GiB, 750156374016 bytes, 1465149168 sectors
> Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
> Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
> I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
> Disklabel type: dos
> Disk identifier: 0x26bd3833
>
> Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
> /dev/sda1 * 2048 148062594 148060547 70,6G 83 Linux
> /dev/sda2 148064254 1465145343 1317081090 628G f W95 Ext'd (LBA)
> /dev/sda5 148064256 1339246591 1191182336 568G 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
> /dev/sda6 1339248640 1465145343 125896704 60G 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
>
>
> manos@manos-TURBO-X-Laptop:~$
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>  So the question is the following: According to this output is at the disk a correct and usefull  win8 partition or not ;In other words does this disk contains two kernels or just one -that of linux ?
> Thanks a lot friends.
>
>
>


Hi!

Most likely but i'm not absolutely sure as i do not know how Your system
was exactly configured beforen the Linux-installation the cause for Your
problems is that You deleted the _first_ Windows-partition with Windows-7.

"Usually" one would assume that Windows 7 has been installed before
Windows 8. And Windows usually places its boot-loader in the first
Windows-partition which in Your case unfortunately has been changed and
lost to EXT4.

You should try to (semi-)-"automatically" recover Your
Windows-8-installation by booting from the DVD and to "repair an
existing Windows-installation".

Hopefully You did not have any relevant data in Your first partition as
after EXT4-ing it most probably all existing data on this partition has
been lost.

Good luck!

J. L.

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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

Liam Proven
On 30 October 2017 at 18:27, J. L. <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Most likely but i'm not absolutely sure as i do not know how Your system
> was exactly configured beforen the Linux-installation the cause for Your
> problems is that You deleted the _first_ Windows-partition with Windows-7.
>
> "Usually" one would assume that Windows 7 has been installed before
> Windows 8. And Windows usually places its boot-loader in the first
> Windows-partition which in Your case unfortunately has been changed and
> lost to EXT4.
>
> You should try to (semi-)-"automatically" recover Your
> Windows-8-installation by booting from the DVD and to "repair an
> existing Windows-installation".
>
> Hopefully You did not have any relevant data in Your first partition as
> after EXT4-ing it most probably all existing data on this partition has
> been lost.

This.

If the OP installed Win8 _after_ Win7, they'd have shared a boot
loader. Win8 could have been removed OK but removing Win7 would render
Win8 non-bootable.

It _might_ be possible to fix the Win8 installation using Startup
Recovery from a Windows boot disk.

If the OP does not have a Windows boot disk, MS makes Win8 freely downloadable.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows8ISO

That should enable them to fix Win8 -- and if desired upgrade it to Win8.1 too.

After it is working again, the free upgrade to Win10 is still
available if you just enable an accessibility tool such as Windows
Narrator or Windows Magnifier.

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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

Ralf Mardorf-2
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 13:30:25 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:

>On 30 October 2017 at 12:46, Manolis L. via ubuntu-users
><[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi
>> Thanks Ralf. It is a relief to know that Windows partition is in
>> place. For the moment let's forget about grub and grub menu and look
>> for a simpler remedy.
>> Is there any way using "external means" e.g. Ubuntu live CD to start
>> the Windows OS ?  
>
>He is giving you the simple way.

I couldn't have said it any better.

Boot the installed Ubuntu and from command line run

  sudo update-grub

this either generates the missing Windows menu entry or the output
might provide a pointer, why no Windows menu entry could be
generated.


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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

Ralf Mardorf-2
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Mon, 2017-10-30 at 18:49 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:

> On 30 October 2017 at 18:27, J. L. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Most likely but i'm not absolutely sure as i do not know how Your system
> > was exactly configured beforen the Linux-installation the cause for Your
> > problems is that You deleted the _first_ Windows-partition with Windows-7.
> >
> > "Usually" one would assume that Windows 7 has been installed before
> > Windows 8. And Windows usually places its boot-loader in the first
> > Windows-partition which in Your case unfortunately has been changed and
> > lost to EXT4.
> >
> > You should try to (semi-)-"automatically" recover Your
> > Windows-8-installation by booting from the DVD and to "repair an
> > existing Windows-installation".
> >
> > Hopefully You did not have any relevant data in Your first partition as
> > after EXT4-ing it most probably all existing data on this partition has
> > been lost.
>
> This.
>
> If the OP installed Win8 _after_ Win7, they'd have shared a boot
> loader. Win8 could have been removed OK but removing Win7 would render
> Win8 non-bootable.
>
> It _might_ be possible to fix the Win8 installation using Startup
> Recovery from a Windows boot disk.
>
> If the OP does not have a Windows boot disk, MS makes Win8 freely downloadable.
>
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows8ISO
>
> That should enable them to fix Win8 -- and if desired upgrade it to Win8.1 too.
>
> After it is working again, the free upgrade to Win10 is still
> available if you just enable an accessibility tool such as Windows
> Narrator or Windows Magnifier.

Good point! So for the moment 'sudo update-grub' and all other GRUB
related hints gain you nothing, since GRUB does chainload Windows, so
you need to fix the Windows bootloader first and after that run
'sudo update-grub'.


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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

Xen
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
Liam Proven schreef op 30-10-2017 18:49:

> On 30 October 2017 at 18:27, J. L. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Most likely but i'm not absolutely sure as i do not know how Your
>> system
>> was exactly configured beforen the Linux-installation the cause for
>> Your
>> problems is that You deleted the _first_ Windows-partition with
>> Windows-7.
>>
>> "Usually" one would assume that Windows 7 has been installed before
>> Windows 8. And Windows usually places its boot-loader in the first
>> Windows-partition which in Your case unfortunately has been changed
>> and
>> lost to EXT4.
>>
>> You should try to (semi-)-"automatically" recover Your
>> Windows-8-installation by booting from the DVD and to "repair an
>> existing Windows-installation".
>>
>> Hopefully You did not have any relevant data in Your first partition
>> as
>> after EXT4-ing it most probably all existing data on this partition
>> has
>> been lost.
>
> This.
>
> If the OP installed Win8 _after_ Win7, they'd have shared a boot
> loader. Win8 could have been removed OK but removing Win7 would render
> Win8 non-bootable.
>
> It _might_ be possible to fix the Win8 installation using Startup
> Recovery from a Windows boot disk.

I guess Win8 might not have its own BCD store which means it just
piggybacked on the Win7 installation.

If Win8 does have a store though it might be possible to still boot Win8
using a loader command directly, but since Grub doesn't find anything, I
guess not.

Doesn't hurt to try though.

I thought Windows didn't like to be installed on anything other than the
first partition (I mean for the bootloader) but yeah.

Wiping win7 was not that smart, or not having a separate boot partition
to begin with, but I guess it was not mandatory in Windows 7.

Fingers crossed that the command:

....

Oh yeah.

To Manolis L:

To fix Windows boot you generally only have a single tool available.

Boot the Windows 8 (or Windows 7) DVD and wait till it loads.

Then press Shift-F10.

Enter:

bootrec /scanos

If it finds your installation:

bootrec /rebuildbcd

And hope for the best.

bootrec /fixboot is also possible but don't use bootrec /fixmbr or
you'll lose Grub.

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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

ubuntu-users mailing list
In reply to this post by ubuntu-users mailing list
Xen, Ralf, J.L. thank you so much for your answers.
For the moment I will try to start Win8 using the istall DVD.
It's a shame for me but I miss Win8.



From: Manolis L. via ubuntu-users <[hidden email]>
To: "Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions" <[hidden email]>
Cc: Manolis L. <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

Hi
Thanks Ralf. It is a relief to know that Windows partition is in place.
For the moment let's forget about grub and grub menu and look for a simpler remedy.
Is there any way using "external means" e.g. Ubuntu live CD to start the Windows OS ?

Thanks again.



From: Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 09:45:59 +0000 (UTC), Manolis L. wrote:
>Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
>/dev/sda1 * 2048 148062594 148060547 70,6G 83 Linux
>/dev/sda2 148064254 1465145343 1317081090 628G f W95 Ext'd (LBA)
>/dev/sda5 148064256 1339246591 1191182336 568G 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
>/dev/sda6 1339248640 1465145343 125896704 60G 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
>
>So the question is the following: According to this output is at the
>disk a correct and usefull  win8 partition or not

Hi,

most likely you didn't lost Windows 8. You first could try to
automatically generate the missing Windows chainload entry. This not
necessarily is all you need to do, but it could be all that you have
to do.

If you google for something like

  ubuntu windows missing in grub menu

the first hints recommend to run

  sudo update-grub

;).

Regards,
Ralf




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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

J. L.-2
On 30.10.2017 21:39, Manolis L. via ubuntu-users wrote:
> Xen, Ralf, J.L. thank you so much for your answers.For the moment I will try to start Win8 using the istall DVD.It's a shame for me but I miss Win8.

Absolutely no need to excuse for "missing" Win(8) except perhaps for the
8. Me i don't like tiles at all. ;-)

One more recommendation (for the future) after hopefully having Your
data / Windows recovered successfully:

If Windows is really necessary always start with a clean installation of
Windows as Windows is very "inflexible" and uncooperative regarding
other OSes.

Only thereafter You should install Your "other" OS, for example ?ubuntu
as Linux can be booted from nearly "everything" without any real problems.

Or even better try to use a virtualized Windows-installation on a clean
Linux-install as, in my opinion, only this way You can really
successfully make the transition from Windows to Linux. With a
dual-boot-system You most likely will stick to Your accustomed Windows
as standard OS although You would _like_ to use Linux. But You are just
too lazy to do a new boot or do not have the time ... ;-)

If You do it the virtualized way You will "force" Yourself to use and
learn Linux as standard OS allways and invoke Windows only when You
really really really ... need it ...

Jm2c! ;-)

And once more good luck to You and Your endeavours! :-)



>
>
>       From: Manolis L. via ubuntu-users <[hidden email]>
>  To: "Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Manolis L. <[hidden email]>
>  Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 1:51 PM
>  Subject: Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting
>    
> Hi
> Thanks Ralf. It is a relief to know that Windows partition is in place.For the moment let's forget about grub and grub menu and look for a simpler remedy.Is there any way using "external means" e.g. Ubuntu live CD to start the Windows OS ?
> Thanks again.
>
>
>       From: Ralf Mardorf <[hidden email]>
>  To: [hidden email]
>  Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 12:59 PM
>  Subject: Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting
>  
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2017 09:45:59 +0000 (UTC), Manolis L. wrote:
>> Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
>> /dev/sda1 * 2048 148062594 148060547 70,6G 83 Linux
>> /dev/sda2 148064254 1465145343 1317081090 628G f W95 Ext'd (LBA)
>> /dev/sda5 148064256 1339246591 1191182336 568G 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
>> /dev/sda6 1339248640 1465145343 125896704 60G 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
>>
>> So the question is the following: According to this output is at the
>> disk a correct and usefull  win8 partition or not
>
> Hi,
>
> most likely you didn't lost Windows 8. You first could try to
> automatically generate the missing Windows chainload entry. This not
> necessarily is all you need to do, but it could be all that you have
> to do.
>
> If you google for something like
>
>   ubuntu windows missing in grub menu
>
> the first hints recommend to run
>
>   sudo update-grub
>
> ;).
>
> Regards,
> Ralf
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Xen
On 30 October 2017 at 20:13, Xen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I guess Win8 might not have its own BCD store which means it just
> piggybacked on the Win7 installation.

Honestly, I'm not sure of the precise details -- a lot has changed
since XP, the last version I knew that intimately.

If Win8 was installed _after_ Win7, it would add its own entries to
Win7's BCD, I think. So, remove Win7 and Win8 won't boot. But with a
little luck the install DVDS will fix that.

I'd suggest upgrading to 10, though. It takes no more resources, is
more current, still getting major updates rather than just bug fixes.
I actually kinda like it.

> If Win8 does have a store though it might be possible to still boot Win8
> using a loader command directly, but since Grub doesn't find anything, I
> guess not.

AFAIK Grub can only chainload an existing Windows bootloader. It can't
do load Windows from a bare disk on its own.

> I thought Windows didn't like to be installed on anything other than the
> first partition (I mean for the bootloader) but yeah.

The first copy must be. A second copy uses the first copy's
bootloader. So yes, that's right.

> Wiping win7 was not that smart, or not having a separate boot partition to
> begin with, but I guess it was not mandatory in Windows 7.

Well, true. Always best to leave Windows at the start and load Linux _after_ it.



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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by ubuntu-users mailing list
On 30 October 2017 at 21:39, Manolis L. via ubuntu-users
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> It's a shame for me but I miss Win8.

Well, there's a first time for everything, and I've never heard anyone
say that before!

BTW, please put your replies _after_ the text you are replying to, not before.

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Xen
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

Xen
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
Liam Proven schreef op 30-10-2017 23:07:
> On 30 October 2017 at 20:13, Xen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> AFAIK Grub can only chainload an existing Windows bootloader. It can't
> do load Windows from a bare disk on its own.

I believe you are mistaken.

The ntldr command takes a pathname as parameter and thus loads something
directly from disk.

It does not depend on a bootsector.

> The first copy must be.

Alright.

> Well, true. Always best to leave Windows at the start and load Linux
> _after_ it.

Yeah.

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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 and Win 8 can't dual booting

Liam Proven
On 31 October 2017 at 11:14, Xen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Liam Proven schreef op 30-10-2017 23:07:
>>
>> On 30 October 2017 at 20:13, Xen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>> AFAIK Grub can only chainload an existing Windows bootloader. It can't
>> do load Windows from a bare disk on its own.
>
>
> I believe you are mistaken.
>
> The ntldr command takes a pathname as parameter and thus loads something
> directly from disk.

And you know what it loads?

The NT Bootloader. Because that's right there in the name, "NTLDR".
"NT LOADER" with the vowels left out to keep it under 8.3 characters,
needed to run on NT 3.1 because they hadn't invented VFAT or FAT32
yet.

It chainloads the bootloader, as I said.

> It does not depend on a bootsector.

It bypasses the boot sector, because GRUB replaces the boot sector.

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