Unity launcher ....

[scoundrel50agmail]

On 23/03/2012 22:44, Alan Pope wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 23/03/12 22:11, scoundrel50a wrote:
>> oooh and who took your dummy away.......
> Actually my patience is somewhat thin today because we cremated my
> best friends Mum. Perhaps that has a bearing on my response, but it
> puts things in perspective. Life is short.
>
> Sorry if it seems that I'm being more harsh than usual. I'm just
> pretty tired of people bitching about Ubuntu and Unity and doing
> nothing about it but sending rants to people who can't actually fix
> the problem.
>
> We have developer lists and IRC channels for a reason, use them.
>
>> that was my reaction when I read that.......but the thing is, you
>> work for Canonical, so your going to say that, whatever
>> happens........
> That's pretty insulting to me. Well done.

It wasnt meant to be insulting, and I am sorry you took it that
way.........I never once since 11.04 have seen anything about testing,
being involved, but I see people on here and have had to ask myself, and
there is a tendency to either ignore or react the way you have, and you
wonder why people get angry.......first I have heard of the testing done
in this thread........would have been nice to be involved in that.......

>
>> what is frustrating is people on here are giving an opinion
> "Opinions are like<bodily_feature>, everyone has one".
>
>> and its being thrown aside is if it doesnt matter because you have
>> all this research into what people like, but people are here
>> telling you different, that has been going on since 11.04 people
>> have said they dont like it......and its not getting better its
>> getting worse.....
>>
> Other distros are available.

and there you go again......

>
> Cheers,
> - --
> Alan Pope
> Engineering Manager
>
> Canonical - Product Strategy
> [phone]
> [hidden email]
> http://ubuntu.com/
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[Alan Pope-4]

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On 23/03/12 22:41, Daniel Case wrote:
> On 23 March 2012 22:34, Barry Drake <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> Anyone who still has doubt, start testing Windows 8 .....
>> 'shoot' and 'foot' spring to mind.
>
> That's certainly true. But I can't help feeling that everything is
> heading towards the "post-PC" era too early. For example, I can
> see Unity working perfectly on a touch screen.

Nah, right now Unity is rubbish on a touch screen :D

It's also not either/or. Ubuntu is a desktop distro. In the future
there may be TV/Tablet/Phone/Fridge/Toaster versions, but right now
it's on desktops/laptops/servers/clouds. That's where our core
competency lies.

> I genuinely care about the Ubuntu community as a whole, it feels
> like home since I've been here and always welcomed for almost 5
> years, I know that ranting, shouting and saying I'm going to leave
> won't help (and I don't think I could bring myself to do so anyway)
> but I was hoping that highlighting the issues as I see them may
> help more.
>

They do help, if brought up in the right way, in the right place. :)

Cheers,
- --
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Engineering Manager

Canonical - Product Strategy
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[Daniel Case-2]

On 23 March 2012 22:44, Alan Pope <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Actually my patience is somewhat thin today because we cremated my
> best friends Mum. Perhaps that has a bearing on my response, but it
> puts things in perspective. Life is short.

I'm sorry to hear that Alan, my thoughts are with your friend and his
family, I hope they are okay. There is never any need for personal
attacks over a mailing list.

I was just trying to highlight the general problem I've been having
and have a constructive discussion on the mailing list to see what
others thought, I'm not attacking Ubuntu or Unity in any way and I
think it is great that Canonical are trying to evolve. I just think we
need more customization options, I will go ahead and try to find the
right people to bring this up with :)

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[Alan Pope-4]

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On 23/03/12 22:55, Daniel Case wrote:
> I was just trying to highlight the general problem I've been
> having and have a constructive discussion on the mailing list to
> see what others thought, I'm not attacking Ubuntu or Unity in any
> way and I think it is great that Canonical are trying to evolve. I
> just think we need more customization options, I will go ahead and
> try to find the right people to bring this up with :)
>

Take a look at "My Unity". It has some config options, but maybe not
enough, I don't know.

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[Liam Proven]

On 23 March 2012 20:16, Hakan Koseoglu <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 23 March 2012 19:54, Neil Greenwood <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> It's policy. The decision was made after usability testing, where users got
>> confused when first maximising a window. "where's the launcher gone now?"
>> And because the option was being removed, the decision was also made to
>> remove the code to reduce the maintenance requirements.
> <soap box>
> Treating users as idiots is not a policy, it's a mistake.

Whereas I agree with this statement, I don't think that in this
instance Ubuntu are doing so.

However, I do think that Unity in general is not /nearly/ as
customisable as Linux users tend to be used to.

There always were 2 opposing positions - KDE which has 436546834
different options to tweak, but still can't do a decent vertical
taskbar, for instance, versus GNOME, which removed all the confusing
twiddly stuff in the name of simplicity. But customisability was still
there - for instance, in KDE, you can set the size of new terminal
windows. There was no such option in GNOME, but if you shut down with
a terminal window open, it remembered it and new ones opened that
size.

Same effect, fewer options.

But Unity is not very customisable. You can do a bit more with
CompizConfig and Confity, but not enough.

If people want the Launcher at the bottom or the right, they should be
permitted - but no, you're not allowed.

If they want to have the Launcher fixed, autohide or dodge, they
should - but no. Not allowed.

If they want an auto-hiding top panel, even if that conflicts with the
auto-hiding menus, let them - but no.

If they want the Ubuntu button in the panel (as in 10.10 - 11.04) or
the first icon, let them choose - but no.

If they want to right-click the Ubuntu button and have a context menu
of program groups, as used to be there IIRC, let them - but no.

Unity is getting quite mature now. None of what I'm proposing is new
code - this is all either restoring features that were one present, or
things that have been accomplished by hacks, config tweaks and so on.
It's all doable. But it's not getting any more configurable - in fact,
options are /disappearing./ This is a very serious error of judgement,
I think.

I think Linux users are used to a higher degree of configurability
than Windows or Mac users, and Unity takes it away. I quite like
Unity, but I am not impressed by some of the changes in 12.04.

> As soon as I find a distribution worth installing everywhere, I'll be
> switching. Mint doesn't cut the mustard. I'm a Kubuntu/Lubuntu user on
> desktop and Ubuntu server  but I don't want to anymore, I don't want
> to have anything with Ubuntu products.

Linux Mint Debian Edition? Crunchbang?

Or Debian itself. I think those are your main options.

Or if you don't mind losing APT, then Arch Linux, which is getting a
lot of attention these days.

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[Neil Greenwood-2]

Well, you can volunteer to support it, and put the option back in. Or pay someone to do it if you don't have the skills yourself. That's the joy of free software.

However, Canonical decided they weren't going to keep paying to support it. That's their right too.

Neil.

P.S. Sorry for the brevity, this is typed on my phone.

On Mar 23, 2012 10:45 PM, "John Oliver" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Personally, I think that the code should continue to be maintained. The argument being put forth sounds to me like "It is not the default, therefore no-one can have it". This argument does not work - look at Windows - the taskbar has an autohide option. Look at OS X; the much gone-on-about "full screen" mode (a.k.a. hide the dock) has just been added.
>
>
>
> --
> Kind Regards,
> John Oliver
> [hidden email]
>
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[Chris Penston-2]

I came late to Computing (in my late thirties as a mature student at University, I'm 56 now). I've been mucking about with Linux since around 1998 when it took me about four days to get a Red Hat release partially working on a laptop.
I've been looking with interest at the posts on here for a number of years and learned an awful amount about gnu-linux in general and Ubuntu in particular from you wonderful techies without ever posting (I haven't yet not found an answer to a question already posted by someone else).
I thought I might just put my two penn'orth in on this particular subject where there seems to be such strong feelings about the direction things are going.
For me the debate has never been about how this looks, or whether that is the best distro (my 83 year old mother uses Xubuntu, though she doesn't realise it, she just knows what she needs to press to get the internet or email).  Nor does it seem to be the major factor to the myriad of people that I try to introduce to Ubuntu on a daily basis.  For those that do show interest after overcoming their innate distrust of 'something for nothing', it is the revelation that there is a massive community of people 'out there' willing to give time, expertise and money to something they passionately believe in and that in a world seemingly run by a bunch of self interested grifters, there are alternative ways of doing things.  That collaboration and co-operation can actually produce something better than naked competition and greed (Windows 8?, what a pointless rip off).
For those getting worked up about Launchers and  and such like, reminds me of those ancient philosophers who spent their time worrying about how many angels could dance on the head of a pin.  The fact is, there is an Ubuntu distribution for pretty much everybody (and I always try to make a point of showing these alternatives once someone has shown a willingness to try Ubuntu).  People tend to be impressed by the novelty that they have a choice.  Almost always, the reaction is astonishment that something can be so good without costing anything 'so there must be a catch'.
I haven't tried 12.04 yet and when I do, I daresay here will be things that I don't like at first.  Personally I'm comfortable with that.  There were things I didn't like about that version of Red Hat all those years ago.  The difficulty appears to me to be the same now as it was then; the restrictive practices of proprietry software and hardware vendors and the massive negative propaganda of the big corporations aided by ignorance in government.  So I would say to everyone involved 'keep calm and carry on!'  The times are changing.

Chris

On 23/03/12 22:44, Alan Pope wrote:

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On 23/03/12 22:11, scoundrel50a wrote:

oooh and who took your dummy away.......

Actually my patience is somewhat thin today because we cremated my
best friends Mum. Perhaps that has a bearing on my response, but it
puts things in perspective. Life is short.

Sorry if it seems that I'm being more harsh than usual. I'm just
pretty tired of people bitching about Ubuntu and Unity and doing
nothing about it but sending rants to people who can't actually fix
the problem.

We have developer lists and IRC channels for a reason, use them.

that was my reaction when I read that.......but the thing is, you
work for Canonical, so your going to say that, whatever
happens........

That's pretty insulting to me. Well done.

what is frustrating is people on here are giving an opinion

"Opinions are like <bodily_feature>, everyone has one".

and its being thrown aside is if it doesnt matter because you have
all this research into what people like, but people are here
telling you different, that has been going on since 11.04 people 
have said they dont like it......and its not getting better its
getting worse.....

Other distros are available.

Cheers,
- -- 
Alan Pope
Engineering Manager

Canonical - Product Strategy
[phone]
[hidden email]
http://ubuntu.com/
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[Barry Drake]

On 24/03/12 01:38, Liam Proven wrote:
> However, I do think that Unity in general is not /nearly/ as
> customisable as Linux users tend to be used to.

At the moment, yes.  When Unity first came out I was disappointed to
discover that it was not based on simple text conf files as is usual in
gnu/linux.  Things are moving though.  
http://mhall119.com/2012/01/simplified-unity-lens-development-with-singlet/ 
shows use of a python class library to take much of the pain out of lens
scripting.  It won't be long before somebody comes up with a gui ide
that builds a lens using drag-n-drop or similar.  It's the kind of thing
I'd have tackled myself when I was younger.

I'm prepared to wait - Unity is perfectly usable as is - and that
doesn't seem to be the case with Windows 8 according to all the reports.

Regards,        Barry.

--
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[Pete Smout]

On 24/03/12 11:58, Barry Drake wrote:

> On 24/03/12 01:38, Liam Proven wrote:
>> However, I do think that Unity in general is not /nearly/ as
>> customisable as Linux users tend to be used to.
>
> At the moment, yes. When Unity first came out I was disappointed to
> discover that it was not based on simple text conf files as is usual in
> gnu/linux. Things are moving though.
> http://mhall119.com/2012/01/simplified-unity-lens-development-with-singlet/
> shows use of a python class library to take much of the pain out of lens
> scripting. It won't be long before somebody comes up with a gui ide that
> builds a lens using drag-n-drop or similar. It's the kind of thing I'd
> have tackled myself when I was younger.
>
> I'm prepared to wait - Unity is perfectly usable as is - and that
> doesn't seem to be the case with Windows 8 according to all the reports.
>
> Regards, Barry.
>

Hi,
Having come relatively late to Ubuntu (8.10) I have become used to the
customizeabilty of GNOME, and I don't want slag off many peoples hard
work, but Unity as it stands is not for me (everything must change, and
hopefully get better) but I do feel that it is going down the Windows
route of 'this is how it is like it or lump it! To me this is not the
LINUX way.

A friend of mine has just discovered 'Ultimate OS' a *buntu fork with a
choice of de's built in, this looks very good and if choice is continued
to be taken away from me then I will have will have to explore alternate
options myself!

This is not an easy decision for me as I have been shouting the virtues
of Ubuntu from the metaphorical hilltops since I first stumbled across
it, but if pushed will also shout about how let down I feel by the dev's.

It is about personal choice but Unity is not mine! Xubuntu here I come!

Pete


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[Sean Miller]

On 24 March 2012 19:41, Pete Smout <[hidden email]> wrote:

It is about personal choice but Unity is not mine! Xubuntu here I come!

That's how I feel too.

Do Canonical take any notes of these lists?

Sean

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[Alan Pope-4]

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On 24/03/12 20:20, Sean Miller wrote:

> On 24 March 2012 19:41, Pete Smout <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> It is about personal choice but Unity is not mine! Xubuntu here I
>> come!
>>
>
> That's how I feel too.
>
> Do Canonical take any notes of these lists?
>

Plenty of Canonical employees and Ubuntu community members are on this
list, although not (AIUI) the ones that can make decisions about these
things.

If you have any useful feedback I would _strongly_ recommend using the
correct mailing list for the job. If you want to provide feedback and
suggestions for improvements to Unity then the 'Unity Design' list is
the best place to go.

https://launchpad.net/~unity-design

Complaining in the wrong place is shouting into the void.

Cheers,
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Engineering Manager

Canonical - Product Strategy
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[Avi Greenbury-4]

Neil Greenwood wrote:

> Well, you can volunteer to support it, and put the option back in. Or
> pay someone to do it if you don't have the skills yourself. That's
> the joy of free software.
>
> However, Canonical decided they weren't going to keep paying to
> support it. That's their right too.
>

I don't think anyone's questioned that. In fact your the first here (as
far as I can see) to mention whether it's some right of Canonical's or
not to do this.

This, I think, is the problem with a lot of responses to these
messages. They're not straight-up complaints so much as expressions of
disappointment in the main. Nobody's trying to claim that Canonicalis
somehow obliged to not change the DE or not make the backgrounds of
terminals purple[0], or that users are somehow tied to using
Ubuntu (or, even, that Ubuntu users are tied to Unity)[1] - they're just
rather disappointed that Ubuntu appears to be no longer interested in
what it used to be interested in, and specifically the bits of its past
interest that an apparently vocal part of the userbase particularly
liked it for.

Perhaps the reasons are sound; I can't honestly claim to
know what they are since the only response anybody seems to get to
recent questioning of Unity's behaviour is "try Fedora".

To simply say that these users can use something else is rather missing
the point; in the main they're the user group who are already aware of
other distros (even if, somehow, the knowledge of other DEs for Ubuntu
has escaped the majority of them), but they're still perfectly entitled
to be disappointed in the apparent large shift in direction. I *want* to
use and like and support Ubuntu (and even Unity) for reasons that I'm
having trouble remembering, but that doesn't mean I actually *do*.

Anyway, I decided to stop getting into these discussions - I only
meant to take issue with your precise argument rather than actually
pick a side here.

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[0] I still check the VGA lead every time I log into a Ubuntu server :)

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[alan c-2]

On 23/03/12 21:06, Daniel Case wrote:
> I'm not saying don't evolve, just evolve in a way that most users
> agree is a good idea


Catch 22. Unfortunately  the vocal  people who do not  like something
have plenty of placard space and ability to dampen a new flame.
Evolution is a risk, a real risk. It happens by (sometimes brutal) death.
And the good guys do not necessarily win. Canonical is not perfect,
including its community marketing interaction, but it is trying to
evolve stuff 'we' know and love and trying to look to a bigger future.
Are 'we', 'most' users? This is the thinking of a status quo. If this
direction of evolution was easy then why has it not been done before?
So, what exactly is a 'good' idea?, and who are 'most' people?
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[alan c-2]

On 23/03/12 21:06, Alan Bell wrote:

> On 23/03/12 20:16, Hakan Koseoglu wrote:
>> <soap box>
>> Treating users as idiots is not a policy, it's a mistake.
>> As soon as I find a distribution worth installing everywhere, I'll be
>> switching. Mint doesn't cut the mustard. I'm a Kubuntu/Lubuntu user on
>> desktop and Ubuntu server  but I don't want to anymore, I don't want
>> to have anything with Ubuntu products.
>>
>> I know the PR spin, "it's to make new users' life easy" yada yada
>> yada. But the new users don't discover Linux all by themselves, in
>> most cases someone shows them and I don't want to show and talk about
>> Ubuntu to anyone anymore.
>> </soap box>
>>
> ok, well as long as you are still using Free Software it is all good.
> The dodge thing was something Mark Shuttleworth really liked too, but
> when they did lots of user testing and watched the videos of people
> being confused by it they dropped the concept.
> there is more about the decision here
> https://lists.launchpad.net/unity-design/msg07835.html

When I used unity for the very first time I was irritated and confused
by the dodging launcher, and I can easily understand that novices and
newcomers will have problems also. And at the time my explicit advice
to someone who was going to put it on their Dad's PC was to - at least
 -  stop the autohide launcher.

As a more fluent and more confident user now I am probably happy with
dodge or autohide, but  I do realise  this stuff is cutting edge and
still developing. And doge launcher is pretty neat.
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[alan c-2]

On 23/03/12 22:11, scoundrel50a wrote:

> On 23/03/2012 22:04, Alan Pope wrote:
> On 23/03/12 21:45, Daniel Case wrote:
>>>> On 23 March 2012 21:21, Neil Greenwood
>>>> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>>> They spent lots of money testing different behaviours
>>>> In my opinion, this is where the problem lies. The main people
>>>> Linux attracts, no matter which way you look at it, are hackers (in
>>>> the general sense).
> That's exactly the problem we're trying to solve. Not asking the
> target audience, but only asking hackers would be arrogant and
> foolhardy. That's why we don't do that. We do listen to feedback, more
> than you'd imagine, and decisions taken about design (for example) are
> directly affected by user feedback. That doesn't happen for every
> minute decision, but it happens.
>
> We're also making it easier to buy computers with Ubuntu pre-installed
> by talking to hardware vendors, to get it shipped from the factory.
> It's hard work and takes a long time to do but we're getting there.
>
>>>> Which brings me back to my first point, who's going to advocate
>>>> Ubuntu if it annoys the hacker and makes life more difficult?
>>>>
> Those of us who do like it, do use it and believe it is the right path
> for Ubuntu to take. If you don't then you have a number of options:-
>
> * Install a different desktop environment on your Ubuntu system
> * Join the discussion on the various Ubuntu development lists to
> articulate how we're doing things wrong
> * Test and file bugs when things don't work correctly
> * Provide patches or programs to help Ubuntu&  Unity to appeal
>
> Personally I am in this for the long haul. Each 6 monthly release is
> fantastic, but I'm thinking years away from now, and I'm happy to
> persevere through the rough times because I think the long term goal
> is worth it.
>
> Frankly if people who are "inside" our community, "hackers" as you
> call them aren't willing to get stuck in then Linux Mint, Debian,
> Fedora and hundreds of other distros are ->  that way. Enjoy!
>
> Cheers,
>>
> oooh and who took your dummy away.......that was my reaction when I read
> that.......but the thing is, you work for Canonical, so your going to
> say that, whatever happens........what is frustrating is people on here
> are giving an opinion and its being thrown aside is if it doesnt matter
> because you have all this research into what people like, but people are
> here telling you different, that has been going on since 11.04 people
> have said they dont like it......and its not getting better its getting
> worse.....

I think that is an unfair response. Alan has personally given me
unbelievable support over many years  for my activities as a volunteer
advocate of FLOSS and Ubuntu.
What he says is sensible and quite proper, and I am delighted that he
has the courage to post on this group.
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[alan c-2]

On 23/03/12 22:51, scoundrel50a wrote:
> .I never once since 11.04 have seen anything about testing,
> being involved, but I see people on here and have had to ask myself, and
> there is a tendency to either ignore or react the way you have, and you
> wonder why people get angry.......first I have heard of the testing done
> in this thread........would have been nice to be involved in that.......

Mark Shuttleworth has a regular and amazingly detailed blog, he also
has IRC sessions for Q & A, I  attended at least one. The governance
of Ubuntu is amazingly open and on record. There is a real lot of
stuff open and online, including a lot of videos of interviews and
conferences. I should say I think Mark S is a far sighted genius. The
one thing that you do not get with Ubuntu or Canonical is bullsh*t and
spin. In today's world this can be hard to accept. If information was
being looked for then there is a *lot* of raw information available,
but no marketing spin.

People got angry because they got hurt. There was plenty of
explanation available, and very detailed it was too, and some long
discussions on lists, some painful. However, afaik Canonical was not
contrite about the changes, and I think that a 'Sorry, we really *do*
have to go this way' would have helped. The lack of a 'sorry' is
something I noticed, and is a bit surprising because it would not cost
anything. But I guess that is what happens when there is no 'spin'.
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[scoundrel50agmail]

On 25/03/2012 10:18, alan c wrote:

> On 23/03/12 22:11, scoundrel50a wrote:
>> On 23/03/2012 22:04, Alan Pope wrote:
>> On 23/03/12 21:45, Daniel Case wrote:
>>>>> On 23 March 2012 21:21, Neil Greenwood
>>>>> <[hidden email]>   wrote:
>>>>>> They spent lots of money testing different behaviours
>>>>> In my opinion, this is where the problem lies. The main people
>>>>> Linux attracts, no matter which way you look at it, are hackers (in
>>>>> the general sense).
>> That's exactly the problem we're trying to solve. Not asking the
>> target audience, but only asking hackers would be arrogant and
>> foolhardy. That's why we don't do that. We do listen to feedback, more
>> than you'd imagine, and decisions taken about design (for example) are
>> directly affected by user feedback. That doesn't happen for every
>> minute decision, but it happens.
>>
>> We're also making it easier to buy computers with Ubuntu pre-installed
>> by talking to hardware vendors, to get it shipped from the factory.
>> It's hard work and takes a long time to do but we're getting there.
>>
>>>>> Which brings me back to my first point, who's going to advocate
>>>>> Ubuntu if it annoys the hacker and makes life more difficult?
>>>>>
>> Those of us who do like it, do use it and believe it is the right path
>> for Ubuntu to take. If you don't then you have a number of options:-
>>
>> * Install a different desktop environment on your Ubuntu system
>> * Join the discussion on the various Ubuntu development lists to
>> articulate how we're doing things wrong
>> * Test and file bugs when things don't work correctly
>> * Provide patches or programs to help Ubuntu&   Unity to appeal
>>
>> Personally I am in this for the long haul. Each 6 monthly release is
>> fantastic, but I'm thinking years away from now, and I'm happy to
>> persevere through the rough times because I think the long term goal
>> is worth it.
>>
>> Frankly if people who are "inside" our community, "hackers" as you
>> call them aren't willing to get stuck in then Linux Mint, Debian,
>> Fedora and hundreds of other distros are ->   that way. Enjoy!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> oooh and who took your dummy away.......that was my reaction when I read
>> that.......but the thing is, you work for Canonical, so your going to
>> say that, whatever happens........what is frustrating is people on here
>> are giving an opinion and its being thrown aside is if it doesnt matter
>> because you have all this research into what people like, but people are
>> here telling you different, that has been going on since 11.04 people
>> have said they dont like it......and its not getting better its getting
>> worse.....
> I think that is an unfair response. Alan has personally given me
> unbelievable support over many years  for my activities as a volunteer
> advocate of FLOSS and Ubuntu.
> What he says is sensible and quite proper, and I am delighted that he
> has the courage to post on this group.

I am glad that he has been helpful to you, but this thread has shown a
different side, one that says, if you dont like it go elsewhere, is that
helpful, that is effectively telling people he has no time for them,
that isnt consistent.....if he keeps saying that people will start going
elsewhere......is that what you really want?



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[alan c-2]

On 24/03/12 11:08, Chris Penston wrote:

[snip of really good stuff]

>  People tend to be impressed by the novelty
> that they have a choice.  Almost always, the reaction is astonishment
> that something can be so good without costing anything 'so there must be
> a catch'.

Yes I find that a lot, also. It is difficult explaining that although
there is no such thing as a free lunch (probably true), that there
*is* Libre software. But then, there is -some- good in the world. I
was in Paris  for a short trip recently and on two occasions, complete
strangers helped with acts of kindness. One gent insisted I took his
seat on a crowded bus (1) and later that day I (we) were lost on the
Metro and a couple noticed this and helped us get sorted.

1) He looked at least as old as I am! But I guess he saw my walking
stick and also I was very unpractised and clumsy trying to get a hand
hold. Slightly embarrassing to get noticed in such a way, but
heartwarming and appreciated nevertheless.

> 'keep calm and carry on!'  The times are changing.

Yay!

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[Alan Bell]

On 25/03/12 10:48, scoundrel50a wrote:
> I am glad that he has been helpful to you, but this thread has shown a
> different side, one that says, if you dont like it go elsewhere, is
> that helpful, that is effectively telling people he has no time for
> them, that isnt consistent.....if he keeps saying that people will
> start going elsewhere......is that what you really want?
>
as long as people keep using and contributing to Free Software it is all
good. If you want Ubuntu to go in a particular direction there is very
little stopping you from actually dragging it in the direction you want
to go. Really. Participate remotely online in the developer summit that
is coming up in May, get involved in the various project mailing lists
and IRC channels, attend the meetings of the teams that are making the
decisions in these things etc. If some other distribution happens to be
going the way you want to go then by all means tag along with that. At
the last UDS I think Mark made the point that the opinions of those who
contribute to the project are valued a lot more than the opinions of
people who just use Ubuntu and have an opinion. Unity is quite
extendable in different ways and the documentation on it is improving
all the time, you can read all about it here:
http://developer.ubuntu.com/
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity

if you want to do interesting things and influence the direction then
you can. If you are just along for the ride, relax and enjoy it.

Alan.

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[scoundrel50agmail]

On 23/03/2012 22:44, Alan Pope wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 23/03/12 22:11, scoundrel50a wrote:
>> oooh and who took your dummy away.......
> Actually my patience is somewhat thin today because we cremated my
> best friends Mum. Perhaps that has a bearing on my response, but it
> puts things in perspective. Life is short.
>
> Sorry if it seems that I'm being more harsh than usual. I'm just
> pretty tired of people bitching about Ubuntu and Unity and doing
> nothing about it but sending rants to people who can't actually fix
> the problem.
>
> We have developer lists and IRC channels for a reason, use them.
>
>> that was my reaction when I read that.......but the thing is, you
>> work for Canonical, so your going to say that, whatever
>> happens........
> That's pretty insulting to me. Well done.
>
>> what is frustrating is people on here are giving an opinion
> "Opinions are like<bodily_feature>, everyone has one".
>
>> and its being thrown aside is if it doesnt matter because you have
>> all this research into what people like, but people are here
>> telling you different, that has been going on since 11.04 people
>> have said they dont like it......and its not getting better its
>> getting worse.....
>>
> Other distros are available.
>
> Cheers,
> - --
> Alan Pope
>

I wasnt going to say this, but I will anyway, havent had a very good
couple of weeks either, apart from the life threatening disease I have
that am being kept alive by toxic drugs that I have to take every day, I
can barely walk, because I have chronic condition called plantar
fasciitis that causes me pain from my toes to my knees which even with
treatment its not going, I also have a condition that is called
arthropathy, that also causes me pain, and to top it off this week I
found out I have another degenerative condition which is neuropathy,
which is the nerves dying in my feet, which is most likely caused from
the toxic drugs I have to take every day that keep me alive.....so
you'll have to excuse me if `I am 'cranky' too.......plus the fact to be
told go somewhere else, is not an option, its taking me forever to get
used to Ubuntu, trying another distro isnt going to work....plus, from
what I can see, a lot of you are members of other distros too.....this
distro is enough....

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