Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Owen Thomas
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 at 22:35, Tony Scott <[hidden email]> wrote:
The answer is that from this version onwards we are using the standard Gnome desktop with an Ubuntu specific theme.

Yes, this makes sense because this perhaps would have explained the upheaval I witnessed.

I'd gladly welcome Alt-Space c making a return in 22.04. In fact, if (unlike was the case for 16.04) the window closed when they were all pressed together (hold Alt-Space then press c), I'd be a very happy man. :)

I think Windows does this, and something about L&F is maybe why Ubuntu doesn't. (?)

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Owen Thomas
On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 at 01:22, Owen Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I have just upgraded from 16.04 to 18.04, and I find the Desktop functions quite differently to the way it used to.

16.04 used Ubuntu's own Unity desktop.

180.4 and later use GNOME 3.

I personally can't stand it.

If you type

sudo apt-install ubuntu-unity-desktop

... you can get the old one back again. This is what I did.

> I can no longer press ctrl-space-c to close windows; I have to use the down arrow to select close.

FWIW and for when Unity goes out of support...

This isn't the standard keystroke (Alt+F4 or Ctrl+W) -- you're using
the window control menu. XFCE respects that and its keystrokes more
than GNOME or KDE.

There is also a free Unity remix now:
https://ubuntuunity.org/

It's very impressive -- the head of the remix is just 10!

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Owen Thomas
Nup... something's really screwy this morning.

I try to Alt-tab through my list of opened windows and for some very strange reason, Alt-tab has reverted to toggling window maximise as it was for 18.04. This is utterly frustrating!

Really, Ubuntu should be mindful of how it can alienate people with some of the insanity that prevails around its desktop.

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Owen Thomas


On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 08:29, Owen Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
Nup... something's really screwy this morning.

I try to Alt-tab through my list of opened windows and for some very strange reason, Alt-tab has reverted to toggling window maximise as it was for 18.04. This is utterly frustrating!

Really, Ubuntu should be mindful of how it can alienate people with some of the insanity that prevails around its desktop.

Yes, I changed the mapping, but I shouldn't have to do this.

It appears as if someone's esoteric use of Alt-tab has crept into the default settings to toggle window maximise. If one is familiar with the keyboard shortcuts then it can easily be changed. If one is new to Ubuntu, then...

Alt-tab should be assigned to change focus to another window; it is what everyone (except the old salt who likes it to toggle maximise) expects!


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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Jared Norris

On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 08:05, Owen Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 08:29, Owen Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
Nup... something's really screwy this morning.

I try to Alt-tab through my list of opened windows and for some very strange reason, Alt-tab has reverted to toggling window maximise as it was for 18.04. This is utterly frustrating!

Really, Ubuntu should be mindful of how it can alienate people with some of the insanity that prevails around its desktop.

Yes, I changed the mapping, but I shouldn't have to do this.

It appears as if someone's esoteric use of Alt-tab has crept into the default settings to toggle window maximise. If one is familiar with the keyboard shortcuts then it can easily be changed. If one is new to Ubuntu, then...

Alt-tab should be assigned to change focus to another window; it is what everyone (except the old salt who likes it to toggle maximise) expects!

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Hi Owen,

Odd the alt-tab behaviour in 20.04 has never been anything but changing the focus for me on multiple installs of different flavours.

Are you sure you don't have a program or setting somewhere in your profile that's over ridden this default locally?

Regards,
Jared

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Owen Thomas
On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 09:19, Jared Norris <[hidden email]> wrote:
Odd the alt-tab behaviour in 20.04 has never been anything but changing the focus for me on multiple installs of different flavours.

Are you sure you don't have a program or setting somewhere in your profile that's over ridden this default locally?

Absolutely. I might have picked it up from 18.04 when I upgraded from 16.04 -> 20.04 over the weekend, but I would have never assigned this myself.

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Owen Thomas
In reply to this post by Liam Proven


On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 at 23:37, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
FWIW and for when Unity goes out of support...

This isn't the standard keystroke (Alt+F4 or Ctrl+W) -- you're using
the window control menu. XFCE respects that and its keystrokes more
than GNOME or KDE.

There is also a free Unity remix now:
https://ubuntuunity.org/

It's very impressive -- the head of the remix is just 10!

Thanks Liam. I'll look into it.

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Owen Thomas
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 at 23:37, Liam Proven <[hidden email]> wrote:
This isn't the standard keystroke (Alt+F4 or Ctrl+W) -- you're using
the window control menu. XFCE respects that and its keystrokes more
than GNOME or KDE.

Behold a rant!

If I was the standard setting authority for the keystroke that closed a window, I would set it to Alt-Space-C. It's a quick left-handed gesture, and whoever decides what these standards will be (or whoever programs the desktop to respond to keyboard input) should not complicate my life by interfering with a common sense gesture like this.

If one is using a Dell, then Alt-F4 requires the left hand to press the Alt and Fn keys. This means that the right hand has to come over and press the F4 key. Ctrl-W is an application specific gesture that is usually used to close either a whole application window or perhaps only a component in an application's window.

I would like to be able to add Alt-Space-C as a shortcut, but it appears this cannot be done because it uses a combination of two character keys as well as a keyboard control key. Not happy at all! I would think that so long as the keyboard shortcut contains at least one keyboard control key, it shouldn't matter how many other keys are desired.

And, I humbly request the following: can 22.04 please allow me to use the facility built into the hardware to disable my mousepad with a shortcut key while I use my keyboard! Having used a Dell for more than a decade, I feel that this feature has been neglected for too long not to have had someone associated with Ubuntu to a deeper level than myself do something about it. I am forever trying to undo whatever happens when my fingers or palm make accidental contact with a mousepad that I cannot disable. This frustrates too!

  Owen.

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Paul Smith-2
In reply to this post by Owen Thomas
On Mon, 2020-10-19 at 09:34 +1100, Owen Thomas wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 09:19, Jared Norris <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Odd the alt-tab behaviour in 20.04 has never been anything but
> > changing the focus for me on multiple installs of different
> > flavours.
> >
> > Are you sure you don't have a program or setting somewhere in your
> > profile that's over ridden this default locally?
>
> Absolutely. I might have picked it up from 18.04 when I upgraded from
> 16.04 -> 20.04 over the weekend, but I would have never assigned this
> myself.

FWIW, I've always used GNOME (GNOME is superior to Unity IMO)
and I've upgraded from 14.04->16.04->18.04->20.04 and my Alt-TAB has
always worked the same way (selects windows/applications).  I've NEVER seen it "toggle window maximize", and my memory ain't great but I'm pretty sure would remember that.

I took a quick look around the intertubes and found comments discussing
Alt-TAB and how it selects different applications from as far back as
2012, but I wasn't able to find a single report of anyone getting
maximize for Alt-TAB.

I'm not saying that you can't be having this issue, I'm just saying
that no one on the Gnome or Ubuntu development side ever purposefully introduced this behavior, either now or in the past, as far as I can tell.  I'm at a loss as to how it "crept into your default settings".


If you go to the keyboard shortcut manager and look at the settings for
"Switch Windows", is it assigned to Alt-TAB?  Or something else?  If
you look at the "Maximize Window" operations, what are they assigned
to?  Are they at their default values or not (e.g., is there a little
"x" box next to them that says "Reset the shortcut to its default
value" if you hover over it)?


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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Owen Thomas
On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 12:17, Paul Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
FWIW, I've always used GNOME (GNOME is superior to Unity IMO)
and I've upgraded from 14.04->16.04->18.04->20.04 and my Alt-TAB has
always worked the same way (selects windows/applications).  I've NEVER seen it "toggle window maximize", and my memory ain't great but I'm pretty sure would remember that.

I have just reset my keyboard shortcuts to the default settings. All seems okay now.

Indeed, I never (knowingly) set any keyboard shortcuts in the past. I've never wanted to.

Thanks,

  Owen.

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Owen Thomas
In reply to this post by Owen Thomas
I have set Super-Alt-X to close a window. Not happy with Ubuntu/Linux/GNOME/whoever else was responsible for taking Alt-Space-C away. Whoever you are, you have not been helpful!

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Volker Wysk
In reply to this post by Owen Thomas
Am Montag, den 19.10.2020, 11:32 +1100 schrieb Owen Thomas:
> And, I humbly request the following: can 22.04 please allow me to use the facility built into the hardware to disable my mousepad with a shortcut key while I use my keyboard! Having used a Dell for
> more than a decade, I feel that this feature has been neglected for too long not to have had someone associated with Ubuntu to a deeper level than myself do something about it. I am forever trying
> to undo whatever happens when my fingers or palm make accidental contact with a mousepad that I cannot disable. This frustrates too!

With "mousepad" you mean "touchpad", right?

I'm using a command in my .bashrc file, in order to turn off the touchpad
of my laptop. It's easily done when it should always turned off (because you're
using a mouse and don't need it). If you want to be able to turn it on and
off via a keyboard shortcut, it might be possible to knit something.

Cheers,
Volker

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Volker Wysk
Am Montag, den 19.10.2020, 11:42 +0200 schrieb Volker Wysk:

> Am Montag, den 19.10.2020, 11:32 +1100 schrieb Owen Thomas:
> > And, I humbly request the following: can 22.04 please allow me to use the facility built into the hardware to disable my mousepad with a shortcut key while I use my keyboard! Having used a Dell for
> > more than a decade, I feel that this feature has been neglected for too long not to have had someone associated with Ubuntu to a deeper level than myself do something about it. I am forever trying
> > to undo whatever happens when my fingers or palm make accidental contact with a mousepad that I cannot disable. This frustrates too!
>
> With "mousepad" you mean "touchpad", right?
>
> I'm using a command in my .bashrc file, in order to turn off the touchpad
> of my laptop. It's easily done when it should always turned off (because you're
> using a mouse and don't need it). If you want to be able to turn it on and
> off via a keyboard shortcut, it might be possible to knit something.
Come to think of it, I believe the touchpad of my laptop can be turned on
and off with a key combination involving the blue-lettered "Fn" key. You
might already have what you're looking for.

Volker

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Oliver Grawert
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
hi,
Am Sonntag, den 18.10.2020, 14:35 +0200 schrieb Liam Proven:
>
> It's very impressive -- the head of the remix is just 10!
>
he's probably 11 by now ;)

ciao
        oli

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Owen Thomas
In reply to this post by Volker Wysk


On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 20:52, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> With "mousepad" you mean "touchpad", right?

Yep sorry. My mistake.
 
>
> I'm using a command in my .bashrc file, in order to turn off the touchpad
> of my laptop. It's easily done when it should always turned off (because you're
> using a mouse and don't need it). If you want to be able to turn it on and
> off via a keyboard shortcut, it might be possible to knit something.

I'd love for that something to be knitted. I know there is a command one can enter to turn the touchpad on and off - perhaps a few years ago now I wrote to this very list and got the low down then.

Yes, all this probably makes me lazy sod, but I suppose no lazier than millions of other Ubuntu users with lives to be lived who would, I suppose, really like to disable their touchpads as well. Many, many gracious platitudes indeed would be bestowed to the individual who disabled our touchpads.
 
Come to think of it, I believe the touchpad of my laptop can be turned on
and off with a key combination involving the blue-lettered "Fn" key. You
might already have what you're looking for.

It would be great to know what that is, because I did search for it once, but never found it. I have a Dell Latitude E5570. Had it for about five years now. I just checked all of my function keys. Alas.

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Colin Law
On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 11:34, Owen Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ...
> I'd love for that something to be knitted. I know there is a command one can enter to turn the touchpad on and off - perhaps a few years ago now I wrote to this very list and got the low down then.
>

I turn the touchpad off with
synclient touchpadoff=1
and on with
synclient touchpadoff=0

To show all settings
synclient -l

You might need to install xserver-xorg-input-synaptics to get it.

Colin

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Owen Thomas
On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 21:43, Colin Law <[hidden email]> wrote:
I turn the touchpad off with
synclient touchpadoff=1
and on with
synclient touchpadoff=0

To show all settings
synclient -l

I believe you are repeating yourself Colin. :)

I am hoping someone can maybe set up a demon which can "react to an event" assigned to a keyboard shortcut and run this command; I'm probably showing my ignorance. In another one and a half years, I'll grab 22.04 and toggle my touchpad with glee. Lovely!

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Colin Law
On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 12:09, Owen Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 21:43, Colin Law <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I turn the touchpad off with
>> synclient touchpadoff=1
>> and on with
>> synclient touchpadoff=0
>>
>> To show all settings
>> synclient -l
>
>
> I believe you are repeating yourself Colin. :)

In what way?  I don't think I posted that before, if I did then my
memory must be failing even more rapidly than I thought, as I had to
go and search for it in my notes to find it.

>
> I am hoping someone can maybe set up a demon which can "react to an event" assigned to a keyboard shortcut and run this command; I'm probably showing my ignorance. In another one and a half years, I'll grab 22.04 and toggle my touchpad with glee. Lovely!

In Settings > Keyboard Shortcuts you can setup a key combination to
run the commands.

Colin

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Volker Wysk
In reply to this post by Owen Thomas
Am Montag, den 19.10.2020, 21:32 +1100 schrieb Owen Thomas:

>
> On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 20:52, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > With "mousepad" you mean "touchpad", right?
>
> Yep sorry. My mistake.
>  
> > >
> > > I'm using a command in my .bashrc file, in order to turn off the touchpad
> > > of my laptop. It's easily done when it should always turned off (because you're
> > > using a mouse and don't need it). If you want to be able to turn it on and
> > > off via a keyboard shortcut, it might be possible to knit something.
>
> I'd love for that something to be knitted. I know there is a command one can enter to turn the touchpad on and off - perhaps a few years ago now I wrote to this very list and got the low down then.
>
> Yes, all this probably makes me lazy sod, but I suppose no lazier than millions of other Ubuntu users with lives to be lived who would, I suppose, really like to disable their touchpads as well.
> Many, many gracious platitudes indeed would be bestowed to the individual who disabled our touchpads.
I think I've figured out how this can be done. In Gnome Control Center -> Keyboard shortcuts [translated back from German to English], there can be created new shortcuts (with the "+" at the bottom of
the list). You can enter a command, which is to be executed when the shortcut keys are pressed. So you could create two shell scripts for touchpad-on and touchpad-off, which turn the touchpad on/off,
using Colin Law's commands (see the other message). Then you'd add shortcuts for those two commands.

> > Come to think of it, I believe the touchpad of my laptop can be turned on
> > and off with a key combination involving the blue-lettered "Fn" key. You
> > might already have what you're looking for.
>
> It would be great to know what that is, because I did search for it once, but never found it. I have a Dell Latitude E5570. Had it for about five years now. I just checked all of my function keys.
> Alas.

I've unpacked my laptop (a Sony Vaio) and taken a look. The keys to be pressed in combination with the "Fn" key are marked with blue symbols on some of the function keys. I can't find a symbol for
turning the touchpad on/off. So probably I'm wrong, and the touchpad can't be toggled that way.

From what you've written, It sounds like your keyboard doesn't have those blue imprints on some keys. And you've already tried all function keys  ...   so, bad luck.


Cheers,
Volker

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Volker Wysk
In reply to this post by Colin Law
Am Montag, den 19.10.2020, 11:41 +0100 schrieb Colin Law:

> On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 11:34, Owen Thomas <
> [hidden email]
> > wrote:
> > ...
> > I'd love for that something to be knitted. I know there is a command one can enter to turn the touchpad on and off - perhaps a few years ago now I wrote to this very list and got the low down
> > then.
> >
>
> I turn the touchpad off with
> synclient touchpadoff=1
> and on with
> synclient touchpadoff=0
>
> To show all settings
> synclient -l
>
> You might need to install xserver-xorg-input-synaptics to get it.
I turn the touchpad off like this:

if [ "$DISPLAY" == ":0" ]; then
    xinput --disable "AlpsPS/2 ALPS GlidePoint"
fi



Bye
Volker

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