Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Colin Law
On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 12:20, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ...
> I think I've figured out how this can be done. In Gnome Control Center -> Keyboard shortcuts [translated back from German to English], there can be created new shortcuts (with the "+" at the bottom of
> the list). You can enter a command, which is to be executed when the shortcut keys are pressed. So you could create two shell scripts for touchpad-on and touchpad-off, which turn the touchpad on/off,
> using Colin Law's commands (see the other message). Then you'd add shortcuts for those two commands.
>

It is Settings > Keyboard Shortcuts in 20.04, I think it was the same
in 18.04.  I shouldn't be necessary to create scripts, it should be
possible to enter the synclient commands directly into the shortcut
setup dialog.

Colin

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Volker Wysk
Am Montag, den 19.10.2020, 12:24 +0100 schrieb Colin Law:

> On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 12:20, Volker Wysk <
> [hidden email]
> > wrote:
> > ...
> > I think I've figured out how this can be done. In Gnome Control Center -> Keyboard shortcuts [translated back from German to English], there can be created new shortcuts (with the "+" at the
> > bottom of
> > the list). You can enter a command, which is to be executed when the shortcut keys are pressed. So you could create two shell scripts for touchpad-on and touchpad-off, which turn the touchpad
> > on/off,
> > using Colin Law's commands (see the other message). Then you'd add shortcuts for those two commands.
> >
>
> It is Settings > Keyboard Shortcuts in 20.04, I think it was the same
> in 18.04.  I shouldn't be necessary to create scripts, it should be
> possible to enter the synclient commands directly into the shortcut
> setup dialog.
Okay. Then Owen only needs to try out which commands work for him.

Volker

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Owen Thomas
In reply to this post by Colin Law


On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 22:18, Colin Law <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 12:09, Owen Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 21:43, Colin Law <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I turn the touchpad off with
>> synclient touchpadoff=1
>> and on with
>> synclient touchpadoff=0
>>
>> To show all settings
>> synclient -l
>
>
> I believe you are repeating yourself Colin. :)

In what way?  I don't think I posted that before, if I did then my
memory must be failing even more rapidly than I thought, as I had to
go and search for it in my notes to find it.

Perhaps I'm misattributing. I've just now checked my email and can't find anything either. I'm pretty sure something was mentioned; perhaps there are other specific commands.
 

>
> I am hoping someone can maybe set up a demon which can "react to an event" assigned to a keyboard shortcut and run this command; I'm probably showing my ignorance. In another one and a half years, I'll grab 22.04 and toggle my touchpad with glee. Lovely!

In Settings > Keyboard Shortcuts you can setup a key combination to
run the commands.

Hmmm... It does sound nice. Hmmm...

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Owen Thomas
In reply to this post by Volker Wysk
On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 22:33, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]> wrote:
Am Montag, den 19.10.2020, 12:24 +0100 schrieb Colin Law:
> On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 12:20, Volker Wysk <
> [hidden email]
> > wrote:
> > ...
> > I think I've figured out how this can be done. In Gnome Control Center -> Keyboard shortcuts [translated back from German to English], there can be created new shortcuts (with the "+" at the
> > bottom of
> > the list). You can enter a command, which is to be executed when the shortcut keys are pressed. So you could create two shell scripts for touchpad-on and touchpad-off, which turn the touchpad
> > on/off,
> > using Colin Law's commands (see the other message). Then you'd add shortcuts for those two commands.
> >
>
> It is Settings > Keyboard Shortcuts in 20.04, I think it was the same
> in 18.04.  I shouldn't be necessary to create scripts, it should be
> possible to enter the synclient commands directly into the shortcut
> setup dialog.

Okay. Then Owen only needs to try out which commands work for him.

Hmmm... A tag team effort. It's nearing 23:00 AEDT. I'm soon to bed to dream my dreams.

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Owen Thomas
On Sun, 18 Oct 2020 at 23:32, Owen Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Nup... something's really screwy this morning.
>
> I try to Alt-tab through my list of opened windows and for some very strange reason, Alt-tab has reverted to toggling window maximise as it was for 18.04. This is utterly frustrating!
>
> Really, Ubuntu should be mindful of how it can alienate people with some of the insanity that prevails around its desktop.

It's *not* Ubuntu's desktop. Ubuntu killed off their own desktop and
adopted Red Hat's.

GNOME 2 had won the desktop wars -- basically everyone used it. It was
even on Solaris. But then the GNOME development team decided it was
"stagnant" (direct quote when I personally interviewed one of the team
leads) and they threw the whole thing out and started over. I still
don't know what "stagnant" means of a successful FOSS project. I
suspect it might mean "it works too well and we're bored".

They adamantly insist that this is a *complete coincidence* and it is
*nothing at all* to do with the fact that Microsoft had just that year
threatened legal action against Linux vendors copying the Windows 95
desktop (Start menu, task bar, system tray, Explorer windows with a
tree view to the left, etc.)

This is what I wrote about it soon afterwards:
https://www.theregister.com/Print/2013/06/03/thank_microsoft_for_linux_desktop_fail/

Here is a short list of things that the GNOME dev team do not use and
have decided are legacy technologies to eliminate:
• window title bars
• title bar window control buttons and window menus
• the minimize function
• in-window menu bars
• top-of-the-screen global menu bars
• desktop icons
... and lots more.

They want to get rid of these things, in favour of things like "client
side decorations" and hamburger menus.

It sounds to me like you are very frustrated with GNOME 3, and I share
that. I would urge you to consider alternatives. There are 3 main
ones:
• Cinnamon is the Mint fork, making GNOME 3 over into something Win95-like
• MATE is a fork of GNOME 2 and works well -- it's better than GNOME 2 ever was
• XFCE is still Gtk-based and works seamlessly with Gtk apps,
accessories, etc., but is more Windows-like, including keystrokes,
vertical taskbars, etc. It also takes the least memory of any of the 4
and it's the fastest.


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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Volker Wysk
In reply to this post by Owen Thomas
Am Montag, den 19.10.2020, 22:39 +1100 schrieb Owen Thomas:

> On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 22:33, Volker Wysk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Am Montag, den 19.10.2020, 12:24 +0100 schrieb Colin Law:
> > > On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 12:20, Volker Wysk <
> > > [hidden email]
> > > > wrote:
> > > > ...
> > > > I think I've figured out how this can be done. In Gnome Control Center -> Keyboard shortcuts [translated back from German to English], there can be created new shortcuts (with the "+" at the
> > > > bottom of
> > > > the list). You can enter a command, which is to be executed when the shortcut keys are pressed. So you could create two shell scripts for touchpad-on and touchpad-off, which turn the touchpad
> > > > on/off,
> > > > using Colin Law's commands (see the other message). Then you'd add shortcuts for those two commands.
> > > >
> > >
> > > It is Settings > Keyboard Shortcuts in 20.04, I think it was the same
> > > in 18.04.  I shouldn't be necessary to create scripts, it should be
> > > possible to enter the synclient commands directly into the shortcut
> > > setup dialog.
> >
> > Okay. Then Owen only needs to try out which commands work for him.
>
> Hmmm... A tag team effort. It's nearing 23:00 AEDT. I'm soon to bed to dream my dreams.
It's noon here in Germany.  :-)   Sweet dreams.

(What's a "tag team"?)

Volker

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

ubuntu-users mailing list
On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 13:45:25 +0200, Volker Wysk wrote:
>What's a "tag team"?

In the thread's context it's based on sports, such as relay race, or
more precise based on the most ridiculous show fight, see
https://www.dict.cc/?s=Wechselmannschaft
But be careful with using this term, www.urbandictionary.com is your
friend.

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Owen Thomas


On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 23:06, Ralf Mardorf via ubuntu-users <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 13:45:25 +0200, Volker Wysk wrote:
>What's a "tag team"?
 
But be careful with using this term, www.urbandictionary.com is your
friend.
 
Woa... I have been informed. I sincerely did not mean any definition other than the familiar.

Yes, a tag team is when two or more people (usually just two) cooperate to some effect.


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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Paul Smith-2
In reply to this post by Owen Thomas
On Mon, 2020-10-19 at 11:32 +1100, Owen Thomas wrote:
> I would like to be able to add Alt-Space-C as a shortcut, but it
> appears this cannot be done because it uses a combination of two
> character keys as well as a keyboard control key. Not happy at all! I
> would think that so long as the keyboard shortcut contains at least
> one keyboard control key, it shouldn't matter how many other keys are
> desired.

A key on the keyboard can either be a modifier key or a non-modifier
key, but it can't be both.  A modifier key doesn't have an action
associated with it: it waits for another keypress to appear.  I'm sure
you don't want to turn either SPACE or C into a modifier :).

It's basically impossible to press two non-modifier keys at exactly the
same instant (in computer time).

That means when you press Alt followed by SPACE and C, the computer
will see a two-key combination: either Alt-SPACE Alt-C or Alt-C
Alt-SPACE.

The only way Alt-SPACE-C could work as a 3-key chord is if either you
defined a key combination of Alt-SPACE as a modifier (in which case you
couldn't use it as a separate keypress, which many of us, especially
Emacs users, would flip out about!!) and were careful to always press
they keys in order Alt, SPACE, C; or the computer had a built-in pause
after the first Alt-modified key was pressed to wait to see if another
key was pressed, to create a 3-key chord... such things are possible
(for example, screen sessions do this), but most people find them
extremely annoying.  There's always an argument about how long is
"long", with the people who want to use the key Alt-SPACE and have it
react immediately, versus those who want the system to wait longer to
allow the third key to be pressed.

In general, it's just a bad UI and I'm personally glad it's not
available.


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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Liam Proven
On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 16:49, Paul Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> That means when you press Alt followed by SPACE and C, the computer
> will see a two-key combination: either Alt-SPACE Alt-C or Alt-C
> Alt-SPACE.

You are misreading the OP's description, I presume out of lack of
familiarity with the Microsoft windows-control menu which has been in
Windows since the beginning (~November 1985) and in xNix since the
Motif toolkit and  window manager (July 1989).

The keystroke that opens the window-control menu is Alt+the space bar.
Try it. Even if the button is hidden, as it is by default on GNOME 3
and Unity, it should still work. (But not in non-MS-Windows-like WMs
such as twm or i3.)

Then a menu appears. The contents vary according to WM but the first
few should include:
• "Restore" or "Unmaximize"
• Close
• Resize
• Minimize
• Move
Often then there is a section divider, followed by things like moving
to other virtual desktops, rolling up or unrolling (features borrowed
from Classic MacOS 8/9) and so on.

Normally, each menu option has a hotkey. (KDE does not respect these
and reassigns them. Just one reason I don't like KDE much.)

X is maximize/unmaximize
C is close
R is Restore if it's called that, or Resize if it's called that,
unless it's re_S_ize

It's not very consistent, which is why I personally mainly use
dedicated shortcuts such as Ctrl+W to close a document, Alt+F4 to
close a window, etc.

But they are legitimate keystrokes. Perhaps a better way to write it would be:
Alt+Space, C

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Tony Arnold-3
Hi Liam,

On Mon, 2020-10-19 at 17:08 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:

> The keystroke that opens the window-control menu is Alt+the space
> bar.
> Try it. Even if the button is hidden, as it is by default on GNOME 3
> and Unity, it should still work. (But not in non-MS-Windows-like WMs
> such as twm or i3.)
>
> Then a menu appears. The contents vary according to WM but the first
> few should include:
> • "Restore" or "Unmaximize"
> • Close
> • Resize
> • Minimize
> • Move
> Often then there is a section divider, followed by things like moving
> to other virtual desktops, rolling up or unrolling (features borrowed
> from Classic MacOS 8/9) and so on.
Thanks for this. You've just provided a work around for an annoying
problem I've got! When I put Chrome into full screen it jumps to the
other monitor. Now you've given me a way to get it to move back again
and stay full screen!

Regards,
Tony.
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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Paul Smith-2
In reply to this post by Liam Proven
On Mon, 2020-10-19 at 17:08 +0200, Liam Proven wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 16:49, Paul Smith <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > That means when you press Alt followed by SPACE and C, the computer
> > will see a two-key combination: either Alt-SPACE Alt-C or Alt-C
> > Alt-SPACE.
>
> You are misreading the OP's description, I presume out of lack of
> familiarity with the Microsoft windows-control menu which has been in
> Windows since the beginning (~November 1985) and in xNix since the
> Motif toolkit and  window manager (July 1989).

Possibly, combined with a lack of specificity in the question.

So, the problem is not about combining these keys at all.  The issue is
that "C" is not set as a hotkey for Close in the window control menu.



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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Sheemon Lists
In reply to this post by Owen Thomas
Why not?

:... If it can be changed - it will be changed..." came from :... If it can be done it must be done ..."
If a change is irritable, then it should be done.
If a change is harmful, then it shall be done
A prior condition to the above; Never document a harmful change ..."

I am NOT saying this was done here
I am NOT saying this was done in purpose
I am saying it was done, is being done and will be done again.  It is called "life".

Oh, upgrade to 20.04 for more changes complying with Simon Says.
And, Upgrade to 20.10 to see some really hair raising changes, avoidable breakage, etc.


On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 7:22 PM Owen Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have just upgraded from 16.04 to 18.04, and I find the Desktop functions quite differently to the way it used to.

I can no longer press ctrl-space-c to close windows; I have to use the down arrow to select close.

I can no longer alt-tab easily between applications; Pressing alt-tab for some reason merely maximises my current window. Alt-shift-tab brings up the open windows and I can select in there using arrow keys.

Why?
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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Colin Law
In reply to this post by Paul Smith-2
On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 16:39, Paul Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ...
> So, the problem is not about combining these keys at all.  The issue is
> that "C" is not set as a hotkey for Close in the window control menu.

Correct, I believe.  Or maybe not whether it is set as a hotkey but
whether it is honoured as a hotkey.

Colin

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Sheemon Lists
In reply to this post by Owen Thomas
Yes, 20.04 is worse, and 20.10 is even that much worse and then some.

"... A spider climbs 1 20 feet spout.  He/she/it gains 10 inches a day, but losses 8 inches with the night's rain.  When will the spider reach the top of the wall?"
Never.  He/she/it is/are not that stupid to climb inse a spout.  What is a spout anyway?

On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 8:17 PM Owen Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 at 11:06, Owen Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 at 10:49, Owen Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 at 10:20, Owen Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have just upgraded from 16.04 to 18.04, and I find the Desktop functions quite differently to the way it used to.

I can no longer press ctrl-space-c to close windows; I have to use the down arrow to select close.

I can no longer alt-tab easily between applications; Pressing alt-tab for some reason merely maximises my current window. Alt-shift-tab brings up the open windows and I can select in there using arrow keys.

Why?

All of this is really frustrating. Wherever the advice to make changes like these came from, it was dud advice.

No longer does it appear that the date and time can be displayed at the upper edge of the desktop. It now appears only to show the day of the week, the hour, and the minute.

This sucks because I refer to this information when I name files with the current date and time. This really sucks!

I want to get away from this desktop and perhaps move to 20.04. Is 20.04 even worse?
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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Sheemon Lists
In reply to this post by Volker Wysk
Where in 20.04 do you get seconds in the top bar clock?  Please show me.

On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 3:48 AM Volker Wysk <[hidden email]> wrote:
Am Samstag, den 17.10.2020, 18:33 +1100 schrieb Owen Thomas:
> On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 at 13:16, Owen Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 at 11:16, Owen Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > I want to get away from this desktop and perhaps move to 20.04. Is 20.04 even worse?
> > >
> >
> > The answer to this question is no. I don't know what happened to 18.04, but I'm glad I waited until now to update.
> >
> > The proper function of Alt-tab appears to have been restored, the clock is displaying the month and day of the month as well as the time (I feel somewhat snubbed that the year has been omitted),
> > but one can still not use ctrl-space c to close a window.
> >
> > Two out of three aint bad...
> >
>
> I also like a clock that displays seconds. Apparently, that doesn't happen either on 20.04.
>

This can be configured in 20.04 in gnome-tweaks, under "top bar".  I don't know how it is in 18.04.

Bye
Volker
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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Volker Wysk
Am Montag, den 19.10.2020, 11:52 -0400 schrieb Sheemon Lists:
> Where in 20.04 do you get seconds in the top bar clock?  Please show me.

Run gnome-tweaks from the activity overview. You can get there by entering
the activities overview and typing "tweaks". The correct icon will appear.
(It's labeled "Optimierungen" in German, for instance.) In the menu to the
left, there is "top bar". Click that. You get several switches to the right.
"Seconds" is one of them.

Bye
Volker


> On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 3:48 AM Volker Wysk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Am Samstag, den 17.10.2020, 18:33 +1100 schrieb Owen Thomas:
> > > On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 at 13:16, Owen Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 17 Oct 2020 at 11:16, Owen Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > I want to get away from this desktop and perhaps move to 20.04. Is 20.04 even worse?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > The answer to this question is no. I don't know what happened to 18.04, but I'm glad I waited until now to update.
> > > >
> > > > The proper function of Alt-tab appears to have been restored, the clock is displaying the month and day of the month as well as the time (I feel somewhat snubbed that the year has been
> > omitted),
> > > > but one can still not use ctrl-space c to close a window.
> > > >
> > > > Two out of three aint bad...
> > > >
> > >
> > > I also like a clock that displays seconds. Apparently, that doesn't happen either on 20.04.
> > >
> >
> > This can be configured in 20.04 in gnome-tweaks, under "top bar".  I don't know how it is in 18.04.
> >
> > Bye
> > Volker

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Mark Lawrence
On 19/10/2020 17:11, Volker Wysk wrote:

> Am Montag, den 19.10.2020, 11:52 -0400 schrieb Sheemon Lists:
>> Where in 20.04 do you get seconds in the top bar clock?  Please show me.
>
> Run gnome-tweaks from the activity overview. You can get there by entering
> the activities overview and typing "tweaks". The correct icon will appear.
> (It's labeled "Optimierungen" in German, for instance.) In the menu to the
> left, there is "top bar". Click that. You get several switches to the right.
> "Seconds" is one of them.
>
> Bye
> Volker
>
I tried "Show Applications" to get to the activities overview and typed
"tweaks" but nothing was found.  After searching I checked the settings
for Software and Updates but they seemed fine.  Thank goodness for 'sudo
apt install gnome-tweaks" :-)

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Volker Wysk
Am Montag, den 19.10.2020, 17:34 +0100 schrieb Mark Lawrence:

> On 19/10/2020 17:11, Volker Wysk wrote:
> > Am Montag, den 19.10.2020, 11:52 -0400 schrieb Sheemon Lists:
> > > Where in 20.04 do you get seconds in the top bar clock?  Please show me.
> >
> > Run gnome-tweaks from the activity overview. You can get there by entering
> > the activities overview and typing "tweaks". The correct icon will appear.
> > (It's labeled "Optimierungen" in German, for instance.) In the menu to the
> > left, there is "top bar". Click that. You get several switches to the right.
> > "Seconds" is one of them.
> >
> > Bye
> > Volker
> >
> I tried "Show Applications" to get to the activities overview and typed
> "tweaks" but nothing was found.  After searching I checked the settings
> for Software and Updates but they seemed fine.  Thank goodness for 'sudo
> apt install gnome-tweaks" :-)
So gnome-tweaks isn't installed by default. I haven't thought of that.

@Sheemon: Install gnome-tweaks by entering "sudo apt install gnome-tweaks"
in a terminal, or go to "Ubuntu Software" and click on the magnification
glass icon in the top left. Enter "gnome-tweaks". "Tweaks - Tweak advanced
Gnome 3 settings" is shown. Click on that, then click on "Install".

This should be it.

Bye,
Volker

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Re: Why the changes to the 18.04 desktop?

Liam Proven
In reply to this post by Tony Arnold-3
On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 17:19, Tony Arnold <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for this. You've just provided a work around for an annoying
> problem I've got! When I put Chrome into full screen it jumps to the
> other monitor. Now you've given me a way to get it to move back again
> and stay full screen!

Oh great! :-D Well, thank you for letting me know!

Sometimes I worry that I am being too pedantic and overdoing it, then
I learn that it helps someone and it was all worthwhile. :-)

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