kubuntu vs ubuntu

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kubuntu vs ubuntu

Xurxo Fernández Gismero
Hi,
I´ve been using kubuntu for a couple of months. It was the 1st time i had tried a linux os. After a failed upgrade to breezy i decided to give ubuntu a try. I´ve been using it for a few days and my impresion is that so far it works better than kubuntu.
Wifi worked almost out of the box. I copied the firmware in the hotplug directories and configured it. Next time i rebooted wifi was working. In kubuntu i have to sudo iwconfig wlan0 and add the channel, wep key and then sudo route add default gw (there is a script to solve that issue though).
I could also configured anything i wanted through the GUI while in kubuntu the administrator button doesnt work most of the times so i had to sudo kcontrol.
But sincerely, after a few days i have come back to kubuntu because i do like better kde programs. I like kopete and kmail and i love the fact that konqueror could do almost anything, from surfing the web to check out samba shared folders, open pdf, etc. And then there is the eye-candy factor, gnome is plain ugly, almost like going back to win95 (i now you can change themes and stuff, but i´m talking about fresh instalations).
So i´m back with kubuntu, trying to solve my sound problem that would make konqueror crash in websites with sounds and setting up superkaramba last version.

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Re: kubuntu vs ubuntu

Simon Rönnqvist
  Hi!

Yes some things in Kubuntu don't seem to be working properly, yet.
Since I too like the KDE application suite more I also thought I'd use those
applications through Kubuntu (even though it'd be possible through Ubuntu
too). When it comes to the default looks I think both Ubuntu and Kubuntu
could look better, but that's easily changed for both of them.

The worst showstopper for Kubuntu right now seems to be the poorly working
settings (in Breezy). (And maybe the fact that CD:s don't open in Konqueror.)
As a temporary solution I just downloaded gnome-system-tools to get properly
working configuration tools that way. But you'll have to edit the menu a
little bit to get them working properly. (Just remove the gksudo before each
command and enable run as different user, and maybe remove duplicates.)

I think Kubuntu has potential, but it needs to get a bunch of bugs fixed.
Fortunately Hoary has much less bugs than Breezy for now, and not much less
functionality... so for somebody unpatient about having the bugs in Breezy
fixed it could be a good choice.

But there are two bugs which I've found both in Hoary and in Breezy on the
PowerPC version. One is that image smoothing screws up the thumbnail and
smaller than normal size views of images. In Gwenview one can set the image
smoothing to Normal, Best or None instad of the default Fast to make it
alright. But I haven't figured out how to do that change in Konqueror.
Another problem which I'm not sure wether it's PowerPC specific or not is
that one seems to be unable of saving changes to the default gateway through
the network settings. The fact that these bugs are found in both versions
make me a bit worried about wether they're ever going to be fixed.

  cheers, Simon


On Saturday 05 November 2005 13:49, Xurxo Fernandez wrote:

> Hi,
> I´ve been using kubuntu for a couple of months. It was the 1st time i had
> tried a linux os. After a failed upgrade to breezy i decided to give ubuntu
> a try. I´ve been using it for a few days and my impresion is that so far it
> works better than kubuntu. Wifi worked almost out of the box. I copied the
> firmware in the hotplug directories and configured it. Next time i rebooted
> wifi was working. In kubuntu i have to sudo iwconfig wlan0 and add the
> channel, wep key and then sudo route add default gw (there is a script to
> solve that issue though). I could also configured anything i wanted through
> the GUI while in kubuntu the administrator button doesnt work most of the
> times so i had to sudo kcontrol. But sincerely, after a few days i have
> come back to kubuntu because i do like better kde programs. I like kopete
> and kmail and i love the fact that konqueror could do almost anything, from
> surfing the web to check out samba shared folders, open pdf, etc. And then
> there is the eye-candy factor, gnome is plain ugly, almost like going back
> to win95 (i now you can change themes and stuff, but i´m talking about
> fresh instalations). So i´m back with kubuntu, trying to solve my sound
> problem that would make konqueror crash in websites with sounds and setting
> up superkaramba last version.

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Re: Re: kubuntu vs ubuntu

Jonathan Riddell-2
On Sat, Nov 05, 2005 at 06:37:12PM +0200, Simon R??nnqvist wrote:
> Yes some things in Kubuntu don't seem to be working properly, yet.
> Since I too like the KDE application suite more I also thought I'd use those
> applications through Kubuntu (even though it'd be possible through Ubuntu
> too). When it comes to the default looks I think both Ubuntu and Kubuntu
> could look better, but that's easily changed for both of them.

Suggestions very welcome.

> The worst showstopper for Kubuntu right now seems to be the poorly working
> settings (in Breezy). (And maybe the fact that CD:s don't open in Konqueror.)
> As a temporary solution I just downloaded gnome-system-tools to get properly
> working configuration tools that way. But you'll have to edit the menu a
> little bit to get them working properly. (Just remove the gksudo before each
> command and enable run as different user, and maybe remove duplicates.)

Automounting is fixed with the updates in breezy-updates.

> But there are two bugs which I've found both in Hoary and in Breezy on the
> PowerPC version. One is that image smoothing screws up the thumbnail and
> smaller than normal size views of images. In Gwenview one can set the image
> smoothing to Normal, Best or None instad of the default Fast to make it
> alright. But I haven't figured out how to do that change in
> Konqueror.

Do you have a bugzilla number for that?

> Another problem which I'm not sure wether it's PowerPC specific or not is
> that one seems to be unable of saving changes to the default gateway through
> the network settings. The fact that these bugs are found in both versions
> make me a bit worried about wether they're ever going to be fixed.

This is a priority and will be fixed.

Jonathan

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Re: kubuntu vs ubuntu

Bugzilla from art.alexion@verizon.net
In reply to this post by Simon Rönnqvist
Simon Rönnqvist wrote:

>
>Fortunately Hoary has much less bugs than Breezy for now, and not much less
>functionality... so for somebody unpatient about having the bugs in Breezy
>fixed it could be a good choice.
>  
>
...or if somebody _has the patience_ to continue using hoary until
breezy gets fixed...

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Re: kubuntu vs ubuntu

Simon Rönnqvist
On Saturday 05 November 2005 21:31, Art Alexion wrote:
> Simon Rönnqvist wrote:
> >Fortunately Hoary has much less bugs than Breezy for now, and not much
> > less functionality... so for somebody unpatient about having the bugs in
> > Breezy fixed it could be a good choice.
>
> ...or if somebody _has the patience_ to continue using hoary until
> breezy gets fixed...

That's exactly what I meanth.
Thanks for clarifying. ;-)

  cheers, Simon

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Re: Re: kubuntu vs ubuntu

Simon Rönnqvist
In reply to this post by Jonathan Riddell-2
On Saturday 05 November 2005 19:15, Jonathan Riddell wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 05, 2005 at 06:37:12PM +0200, Simon R??nnqvist wrote:
> > Yes some things in Kubuntu don't seem to be working properly, yet.
> > Since I too like the KDE application suite more I also thought I'd use
> > those applications through Kubuntu (even though it'd be possible through
> > Ubuntu too). When it comes to the default looks I think both Ubuntu and
> > Kubuntu could look better, but that's easily changed for both of them.
>
> Suggestions very welcome.

  Well... I've got nothing but opinions to share... ;-)
But for Kubuntu and KDE in general a problem is that people get put of by it's
M$ Windowish look. In fact I think that KDE is more innovative and less
conservative than ie. Gnome. Therefore it having Windowish looks and blue
colors (which symbolizes conservatism according to color psychology) may not
contribute to the most appropriate image.

Personally I'm using a theme which I made out of the default theme:
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=28190
In the theme the default icons are used but colored green. I've found that
coloring icons for anything but the 'active' hovering effect isn't always a
good idea. So instead I downloaded another slightly less blueish (than
Crystal SVG) iconset, namely Crystal Clear by the same author. But hey, this
is just how I like it. ;-) Anyways, less Windows-like and maybe less blueish
could be a good thing.

When it comes to Ubuntu I dislike the window style and maybe the icons a
little bit. I prefer using Clearlooks for the Window borders with the Human
Controls, and just some other icons than the default GNOME ones maybe Human
or Sandy.

> > The worst showstopper for Kubuntu right now seems to be the poorly
> > working settings (in Breezy). (And maybe the fact that CD:s don't open in
> > Konqueror.) As a temporary solution I just downloaded gnome-system-tools
> > to get properly working configuration tools that way. But you'll have to
> > edit the menu a little bit to get them working properly. (Just remove the
> > gksudo before each command and enable run as different user, and maybe
> > remove duplicates.)
>
> Automounting is fixed with the updates in breezy-updates.

  Oh, thanks for the hint... I hadn't noticed the updates. ;-)
Is there any kind of update notification thing for Kubuntu as there is by
default in Ubuntu? Of course one can install and use the Ubuntu one, but
maybe there'd be a KDE-version.

> > But there are two bugs which I've found both in Hoary and in Breezy on
> > the PowerPC version. One is that image smoothing screws up the thumbnail
> > and smaller than normal size views of images. In Gwenview one can set the
> > image smoothing to Normal, Best or None instad of the default Fast to
> > make it alright. But I haven't figured out how to do that change in
> > Konqueror.
>
> Do you have a bugzilla number for that?

  No not really, I just found some hints about it here:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=34192
Anyways, I Googled up this for you... a bug that needs to be reopened:
http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8578

> > Another problem which I'm not sure wether it's PowerPC specific or not is
> > that one seems to be unable of saving changes to the default gateway
> > through the network settings. The fact that these bugs are found in both
> > versions make me a bit worried about wether they're ever going to be
> > fixed.
>
> This is a priority and will be fixed.

Great!
Well let's say... now I feel even more confident that I'm doing the right
thing in using Kubuntu Breezy on my PowerBook... ;-)

  cheers, Simon

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Re: Re: kubuntu vs ubuntu

Jose Gomez-Dans
On 05/11/05, Simon Rönnqvist <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Personally I'm using a theme which I made out of the default theme:
> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=28190
> In the theme the default icons are used but colored green. I've found that

Interesting. I like the theme, downloaded it, and was left frustrated
trying to work out how to install it in kubuntu breezy!!! Before,
there was an option to import theme from file, but now I can only see
import colour scheme, and not the .kth file. I know there's the
kthememanager directory in /usr/share..., where the xml files are
kept, but I thought that KDE could automatically install the tiheme?

If I click on the file, I get an application launch icon in my
taskbar, but nothing happens.

Any clues? I feel I'm missing something really obvious!

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Re: Re: kubuntu vs ubuntu

Josef K.
In reply to this post by Simon Rönnqvist
Simon R?nnqvist wrote:
> But for Kubuntu and KDE in general a problem is that people get put of by
> it's M$ Windowish look. In fact I think that KDE is more innovative and

I'm afraid the problem isn't m$ look but m$ stability!
in hoary konqueror crash ofter (too often), in breezy it's much more stable
but there're still apps too unstable (kaffeine crash when I close it
_always_ and ofter adept kate amule etc. crash before startup (and without
any worning!))

> Personally I'm using a theme which I made out of the default theme:
> http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=28190
> In the theme the default icons are used but colored green. I've found that

still looking for a good dark theme :(
unfortunately some apps use default text color: if I set dark background
with light text they become unusable ?_?

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Re: Re: kubuntu vs ubuntu

Simon Rönnqvist
In reply to this post by Jonathan Riddell-2
On Saturday 05 November 2005 19:15, Jonathan Riddell wrote:
> Automounting is fixed with the updates in breezy-updates.

Hmmm... I'm not so sure about this... I'm using Kubuntu Breezy for PowerPC and
just updated to get the latest bugfixes. When inserting a CD or DVD I get
different results depending on which one I insert.

Some mount properly, but opens several times in Konqueror... Some don't mount
and open several "An error occurred while loading media:/hdc:
The file or folder media:/hdc does not exist."-tabs. Some do that and
adittionaly give repeated KDE Crash report windows until I log out.

But the admin issue again was indeed fixed in the PowerPC version now, thanks!

  cheers, Simon

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Re: Re: kubuntu vs ubuntu

Simon Rönnqvist
In reply to this post by Jose Gomez-Dans
On Sunday 06 November 2005 00:57, Jose Gomez-Dans wrote:

> On 05/11/05, Simon Rönnqvist <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Personally I'm using a theme which I made out of the default theme:
> > http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=28190
> > In the theme the default icons are used but colored green. I've found
> > that
>
> Interesting. I like the theme, downloaded it, and was left frustrated
> trying to work out how to install it in kubuntu breezy!!! Before,
> there was an option to import theme from file, but now I can only see
> import colour scheme, and not the .kth file. I know there's the
> kthememanager directory in /usr/share..., where the xml files are
> kept, but I thought that KDE could automatically install the tiheme?

  Yeah... frustrating huh? :-)
The good news is that the old Control panel is still present. Choose "Run
command..." and type in kcontrol and hit enter. Hope they make sure the new
control panels has everything that the old one had soon... cause it's
otherwise kinda neat and it's a pity having to use kcontrol. ;-)

> If I click on the file, I get an application launch icon in my
> taskbar, but nothing happens.
>
> Any clues? I feel I'm missing something really obvious!

Not really... you've just discovered a bug, or let's say a missing feature.
BTW. You can also add themes by rightklicking them and choosing to add them
from the menu... But you'll have to activate them from kcontrol anyways...

  cheers, Simon
PS. Glad you liked the theme... I think I might post an update at some
point...

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Re: kubuntu vs ubuntu

Simon Rönnqvist
In reply to this post by Josef K.
On Sunday 06 November 2005 12:18, Josef K. wrote:
> Simon Rönnqvist wrote:
> > But for Kubuntu and KDE in general a problem is that people get put of by
> > it's M$ Windowish look. In fact I think that KDE is more innovative and
>
> I'm afraid the problem isn't m$ look but m$ stability!
> in hoary konqueror crash ofter (too often), in breezy it's much more stable
> but there're still apps too unstable (kaffeine crash when I close it
> _always_ and ofter adept kate amule etc. crash before startup (and without
> any worning!))

  Well... this probably holds true for Kubuntu...
But with KDE in general I think people are put off by the Windows-like looks.
I was too, but just figured I could look beyond that and change the
theme. ;-)

> > Personally I'm using a theme which I made out of the default theme:
> > http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=28190
> > In the theme the default icons are used but colored green. I've found
> > that
>
> still looking for a good dark theme :(
> unfortunately some apps use default text color: if I set dark background
> with light text they become unusable ç_ç

  Yeah... I actually also figured that it's a bit hard to make KDE look
completely different from the original blue and white... all seems kind of
designed according to that.

  cheers, Simon

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Re: Re: kubuntu vs ubuntu

Derek Broughton-2
In reply to this post by Simon Rönnqvist
Simon R?nnqvist wrote:

> But for Kubuntu and KDE in general a problem is that people get put of by
> it's M$ Windowish look.

I'm sure some do.  otoh, I think we get many more converts _because_ the
Windowish look doesn't scare off Windows users.  It doesn't _have_ to look
like Windows, and a nice "look & feel" tutorial would be nice.

> When it comes to Ubuntu I dislike the window style and maybe the icons a
> little bit. I prefer using Clearlooks for the Window borders with the
> Human Controls, and just some other icons than the default GNOME ones
> maybe Human or Sandy.

Sounds like you've done a fair bit of experimenting with this.  How'd you
like to write up a nice how-to with screen shots? :-)

>> > The worst showstopper for Kubuntu right now seems to be the poorly
>> > working settings (in Breezy). (And maybe the fact that CD:s don't open
>> > in Konqueror.)

I think the "showstopper" is that most upgraders don't realize they need to
use "breezy-updates".  Perhaps the "-updates" repository should be turned
on in the default sources.list.  iirc, it's commented out which isn't a
very good idea: pre-release, one would expect it to be empty, so no harm if
it's present; post-release, it's needed.

>> Automounting is fixed with the updates in breezy-updates.
>
>   Oh, thanks for the hint... I hadn't noticed the updates. ;-)

QED :-)

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Re: Re: kubuntu vs ubuntu

federico silva
In reply to this post by Simon Rönnqvist
On Saturday 05 November 2005 18:46, Simon Rönnqvist wrote:
Simon Rönnqvist escribió:
> But for Kubuntu and KDE in general a problem is that people get put of by
> it's M$ Windowish look. In fact I think that KDE is more innovative and
> less conservative than ie. Gnome. Therefore it having Windowish looks and
> blue colors (which symbolizes conservatism according to color psychology)
> may not contribute to the most appropriate image.

Leaving aside the M$ look, I must add that for consistency with the
rest of Ubuntu, it would be nice to have a "human" theme for kubuntu.
I think it is rather important to be consistent with the "other half" of
the distro.

Not that I like that much the human colors - too brown/dark for me - , but I
use the color scheme called "desert red" and I have been using it since kde
3.something. It is warmer than the blueish and/or greenish color schemes
and lighter than "human".

As for the icons, I use the nuvola set.

Just my UY$ 1 ( U$ 0.04 ;)

regards,
f

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Re: kubuntu vs ubuntu

Simon Rönnqvist
In reply to this post by Derek Broughton-2
On Sunday 06 November 2005 20:08, Derek Broughton wrote:
> Simon Rönnqvist wrote:
> > But for Kubuntu and KDE in general a problem is that people get put of by
> > it's M$ Windowish look.
>
> I'm sure some do.  otoh, I think we get many more converts _because_ the
> Windowish look doesn't scare off Windows users.  It doesn't _have_ to look
> like Windows, and a nice "look & feel" tutorial would be nice.

  Well...
As I wrote earlier... I think Gnome is rather more traditional by it's
functionality, and would maybe be even Windows-like users if one would just
re-arrange the menus (which is really easy) and make the theme more
Windows-like.

When it comes to actual functionality I think that KDE is more different and
progressive. It actually kind of approaches Jacob Nielsen's  idea of the
future of the web. (I don't otherwise like the guy, but I refer to 'em
anyways ;-) In a nutshell his idea is that the web and ordinary software will
merge. With Konqueror as a remote and local filemanager as well as a web
browser this vision is getting one step closer.

> > When it comes to Ubuntu I dislike the window style and maybe the icons a
> > little bit. I prefer using Clearlooks for the Window borders with the
> > Human Controls, and just some other icons than the default GNOME ones
> > maybe Human or Sandy.
>
> Sounds like you've done a fair bit of experimenting with this.  How'd you
> like to write up a nice how-to with screen shots? :-)

  Well, when  it comes to Ubuntu I haven't spent so much time with it... I
just combined elements in between the default themes. So everything was done
through the point and click environment using the customize theme button.
This anybody should be able to do just by pointing and clicking... When it
comes to KDE again I've played around a bit more, but still just using
installed themes and point and clicking... The theme I referred to was a
result of this, so that should be enough by itself, without any further
instructions. Besides, all these things are just according to my personal
taste... other may like it in a different way.

> >> > The worst showstopper for Kubuntu right now seems to be the poorly
> >> > working settings (in Breezy). (And maybe the fact that CD:s don't open
> >> > in Konqueror.)
>
> I think the "showstopper" is that most upgraders don't realize they need to
> use "breezy-updates".  Perhaps the "-updates" repository should be turned
> on in the default sources.list.  iirc, it's commented out which isn't a
> very good idea: pre-release, one would expect it to be empty, so no harm if
> it's present; post-release, it's needed.

  Indeed...
Actually I even thing that the system should ask the user wether it he wants
the extra repositories enabled explaining what that means, that is why one
would want to have them or not have them enabled. I think most people want to
have all of the repositories enabled, and yet many newbies may not know about
them.

> >> Automounting is fixed with the updates in breezy-updates.
> >
> >   Oh, thanks for the hint... I hadn't noticed the updates. ;-)
>
> QED :-)

As I wrote here earlier (but after the "thanks for the hint") it doesn't seem
to work on my PowerPC version even after the update, though... and yes I've
got breezy-updates enabled. ;-)

  cheers, Simon

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Re: kubuntu vs ubuntu

Xurxo Fernández Gismero
In reply to this post by Simon Rönnqvist
I dont agree with the M$ish look... ok, we might be using blue color, but
overall i feel gnome behaving more like windows. Like when i click and move
a file in ubuntu i will move/copy while in kubuntu it will ask me what i
wanna
do. I.E. the one click in kubuntu will open the file instead of the
M$/ubuntu double click way
Kubuntu might use 1 bars on the desktop like windows but thats it. Even
gnome double bar looks more windowish to me. The only desktop that is really
different could be macos with the dock.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon R�nnqvist" <[hidden email]>
To: "Kubuntu Help and User Discussions" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 17:37
Subject: Re: kubuntu vs ubuntu


  Hi!

Yes some things in Kubuntu don't seem to be working properly, yet.
Since I too like the KDE application suite more I also thought I'd use those
applications through Kubuntu (even though it'd be possible through Ubuntu
too). When it comes to the default looks I think both Ubuntu and Kubuntu
could look better, but that's easily changed for both of them.

The worst showstopper for Kubuntu right now seems to be the poorly working
settings (in Breezy). (And maybe the fact that CD:s don't open in
Konqueror.)
As a temporary solution I just downloaded gnome-system-tools to get properly
working configuration tools that way. But you'll have to edit the menu a
little bit to get them working properly. (Just remove the gksudo before each
command and enable run as different user, and maybe remove duplicates.)

I think Kubuntu has potential, but it needs to get a bunch of bugs fixed.
Fortunately Hoary has much less bugs than Breezy for now, and not much less
functionality... so for somebody unpatient about having the bugs in Breezy
fixed it could be a good choice.

But there are two bugs which I've found both in Hoary and in Breezy on the
PowerPC version. One is that image smoothing screws up the thumbnail and
smaller than normal size views of images. In Gwenview one can set the image
smoothing to Normal, Best or None instad of the default Fast to make it
alright. But I haven't figured out how to do that change in Konqueror.
Another problem which I'm not sure wether it's PowerPC specific or not is
that one seems to be unable of saving changes to the default gateway through
the network settings. The fact that these bugs are found in both versions
make me a bit worried about wether they're ever going to be fixed.

  cheers, Simon


On Saturday 05 November 2005 13:49, Xurxo Fernandez wrote:

> Hi,
> I�ve been using kubuntu for a couple of months. It was the 1st time i had
> tried a linux os. After a failed upgrade to breezy i decided to give
> ubuntu
> a try. I�ve been using it for a few days and my impresion is that so far
> it
> works better than kubuntu. Wifi worked almost out of the box. I copied the
> firmware in the hotplug directories and configured it. Next time i
> rebooted
> wifi was working. In kubuntu i have to sudo iwconfig wlan0 and add the
> channel, wep key and then sudo route add default gw (there is a script to
> solve that issue though). I could also configured anything i wanted
> through
> the GUI while in kubuntu the administrator button doesnt work most of the
> times so i had to sudo kcontrol. But sincerely, after a few days i have
> come back to kubuntu because i do like better kde programs. I like kopete
> and kmail and i love the fact that konqueror could do almost anything,
> from
> surfing the web to check out samba shared folders, open pdf, etc. And then
> there is the eye-candy factor, gnome is plain ugly, almost like going back
> to win95 (i now you can change themes and stuff, but i�m talking about
> fresh instalations). So i�m back with kubuntu, trying to solve my sound
> problem that would make konqueror crash in websites with sounds and
> setting
> up superkaramba last version.

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Re: kubuntu vs ubuntu

Simon Rönnqvist
Looks and functionality are two different things. As I said earlier, I think
that KDE has a Windows-like default look... while as Gnome actually is more
traditional and therefore closer to ie. Windows, at least if one rearranges
the menus a bit. My whole point was that the windows-like looks of KDE
communicate the wrong message, just because it actually is more different. So
many people get the wrong idea from the looks.

BTW. One is able to change the settings so that one doesn't have to
double-click in Gnome. But that doesn't count in case we're talking about
default behavior... ;-)

  cheers, Simon


On Monday 07 November 2005 23:03, Xurxo Fernandez wrote:
> I dont agree with the M$ish look... ok, we might be using blue color, but
> overall i feel gnome behaving more like windows. Like when i click and move
> a file in ubuntu i will move/copy while in kubuntu it will ask me what i
> wanna
> do. I.E. the one click in kubuntu will open the file instead of the
> M$/ubuntu double click way
> Kubuntu might use 1 bars on the desktop like windows but thats it. Even
> gnome double bar looks more windowish to me. The only desktop that is
> really different could be macos with the dock.

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