multimedia software

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multimedia software

goodtooogo
For the next release ( dapper drake ) could you guys give some consideration to including java - ,jre-1_5_0_05-linux-i586.bin as a package . It's an important piece of software for multimedia . It's a real pain to configure even with the help files in the freindly users guide .I haven't had any luck yet !
Thanks ,
 Moondogie

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Re: multimedia software

Marius Bock
Ubuntu and for that mattwe any other Linux distribution are not allowed to redistribute Sun Java  so what you asking is not an option.

On 11/18/05, goodtooogo <[hidden email]> wrote:
For the next release ( dapper drake ) could you guys give some consideration to including java - ,jre-1_5_0_05-linux-i586.bin as a package . It's an important piece of software for multimedia . It's a real pain to configure even with the help files in the freindly users guide .I haven't had any luck yet !
Thanks ,
 Moondogie

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Re: multimedia software

Peter Garrett
In reply to this post by goodtooogo
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 05:53:46 -0800
"goodtooogo" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> For the next release ( dapper drake ) could you guys give some consideration to including java - ,jre-1_5_0_05-linux-i586.bin as a package . It's an important piece of software for multimedia . It's a real pain to configure even with the help files in the freindly users guide .I haven't had any luck yet !
> Thanks ,
>  Moondogie

Not possible, owing to licensing issues. Take a look at

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats

Peter

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Re: multimedia software

Harold-5
It is very easy to install, however.

Harold
www.SawyerSphere.net

Peter Garrett wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 05:53:46 -0800
>"goodtooogo" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>For the next release ( dapper drake ) could you guys give some consideration to including java - ,jre-1_5_0_05-linux-i586.bin as a package . It's an important piece of software for multimedia . It's a real pain to configure even with the help files in the freindly users guide .I haven't had any luck yet !
>>Thanks ,
>> Moondogie
>>    
>>
>
>Not possible, owing to licensing issues. Take a look at
>
>https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats
>
>Peter
>
>  
>

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Re: multimedia software

John-68
In reply to this post by Marius Bock
Marius Bock wrote:
> Ubuntu and for that mattwe any other Linux distribution are not allowed to
> redistribute Sun Java so what you asking is not an option.

I've not checked the licence recently, so I don't know what the specific
objections you have. Sun has always agreed to folk distributing jre with
their Java apps.

SuSE does have jre included (but called java).

Even if Ubuntu can't see its way clear to include Java, then how about a
package to download it and set it up?





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Re: multimedia software

Jeroen van Splunder
On zo, 2005-11-20 at 17:20 +0800, John wrote:

> Marius Bock wrote:
> > Ubuntu and for that mattwe any other Linux distribution are not allowed to
> > redistribute Sun Java so what you asking is not an option.
>
> I've not checked the licence recently, so I don't know what the specific
> objections you have. Sun has always agreed to folk distributing jre with
> their Java apps.
>
> SuSE does have jre included (but called java).
>
> Even if Ubuntu can't see its way clear to include Java, then how about a
> package to download it and set it up?
>
It's not free software.

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/licensing/document_view

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Re: multimedia software

John-68
Jeroen van Splunder wrote:

> On zo, 2005-11-20 at 17:20 +0800, John wrote:
>
>>Marius Bock wrote:
>>
>>>Ubuntu and for that mattwe any other Linux distribution are not allowed to
>>>redistribute Sun Java so what you asking is not an option.
>>
>>I've not checked the licence recently, so I don't know what the specific
>>objections you have. Sun has always agreed to folk distributing jre with
>>their Java apps.
>>
>>SuSE does have jre included (but called java).
>>
>>Even if Ubuntu can't see its way clear to include Java, then how about a
>>package to download it and set it up?
>>
>
> It's not free software.

Neither is the HAL for my atheros wireless card that works in Breezy
Neither is the firmware for my prism54 wireless network card, and that
works in Warty.


Besides, not being free software doesn't prevent the provision of a
package to acquire it by download.


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Re: multimedia software

Dennis Kaarsemaker
On zo, 2005-11-20 at 19:42 +0800, John wrote:

> Besides, not being free software doesn't prevent the provision of a
> package to acquire it by download.

If suns java license would allow redistribution, Sun java would be in
multiverse. But the license does not allow this.
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Re: multimedia software

Phillip Pare


Dennis Kaarsemaker wrote:

> On zo, 2005-11-20 at 19:42 +0800, John wrote:
>
>
>>Besides, not being free software doesn't prevent the provision of a
>>package to acquire it by download.
>
>
> If suns java license would allow redistribution, Sun java would be in
> multiverse. But the license does not allow this.
>
It most probably has been discussed at length elsewhere, but I am not up
to date as to why Sun would sponsor Open Office development the way it
does and then refuse to make Sun java free and open. I would be
interested to hear some comments or just be directed to where the issue
has been hammered out.

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Re: multimedia software

Derek Broughton-2
In reply to this post by John-68
John wrote:

> Marius Bock wrote:
>> Ubuntu and for that mattwe any other Linux distribution are not allowed
>> to redistribute Sun Java so what you asking is not an option.
>
> I've not checked the licence recently, so I don't know what the specific
> objections you have. Sun has always agreed to folk distributing jre with
> their Java apps.

Sun approves you distributing for a _specific_ java app.  "Linux" can hardly
qualify.
>
> SuSE does have jre included (but called java).

Presumably not the Sun JRE, then.
>
> Even if Ubuntu can't see its way clear to include Java, then how about a
> package to download it and set it up?

iirc, that's java-package.
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Re: multimedia software

Harold-5
In reply to this post by Phillip Pare
Probably due to loosing control of the software.  Right now java, as I
understand it, is meant to narrowly address programming needs without
allowing attacks such as activeX does.  This is probably a reason for
its popularity.

Phillip Pare wrote:

>
>
> Dennis Kaarsemaker wrote:
>
>> On zo, 2005-11-20 at 19:42 +0800, John wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Besides, not being free software doesn't prevent the provision of a
>>> package to acquire it by download.
>>
>>
>>
>> If suns java license would allow redistribution, Sun java would be in
>> multiverse. But the license does not allow this.
>>
> It most probably has been discussed at length elsewhere, but I am not
> up to date as to why Sun would sponsor Open Office development the way
> it does and then refuse to make Sun java free and open. I would be
> interested to hear some comments or just be directed to where the
> issue has been hammered out.
>

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Re: multimedia software

Etienne Goyer
In reply to this post by Derek Broughton-2
Derek Broughton wrote:
>>SuSE does have jre included (but called java).
>
> Presumably not the Sun JRE, then.

No. It's the Sun's one indeed.

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Re: multimedia software

Carlos Perelló Marín-3
On Sun, 2005-11-20 at 10:00 -0500, Etienne Goyer wrote:
> Derek Broughton wrote:
> >>SuSE does have jre included (but called java).
> >
> > Presumably not the Sun JRE, then.
>
> No. It's the Sun's one indeed.

I think that's because SuSE reached an agreement with SUN to distribute
it. The problem with that kind of agreement is that *only* SuSE can
distribute it, if you create a derivative, you must remove it from your
version. In fact, I think you are not able to duplicate the CD and give
it to other people just because the JRE software does not allow you to
do that...

Cheers.

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Ubuntu => http://www.ubuntu.com
mailto:[hidden email]
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Valencia - Spain

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Re: multimedia software

Etienne Goyer
Carlos Perelló Marín wrote:

> On Sun, 2005-11-20 at 10:00 -0500, Etienne Goyer wrote:
>
>>Derek Broughton wrote:
>>
>>>>SuSE does have jre included (but called java).
>>>
>>>Presumably not the Sun JRE, then.
>>
>>No. It's the Sun's one indeed.
>
>
> I think that's because SuSE reached an agreement with SUN to distribute
> it. The problem with that kind of agreement is that *only* SuSE can
> distribute it, if you create a derivative, you must remove it from your
> version. In fact, I think you are not able to duplicate the CD and give
> it to other people just because the JRE software does not allow you to
> do that...
Somehow, I doubt it.  The Sun Java SuSE package are freely available
from mirrors, such as
http://mirrors.kernel.org/opensuse/distribution/SL-10.0-OSS/inst-source-java/,
and you can also download SuSE 10.0 "Eval" ISO image from any of their
mirrors, which also include Sun's Java.

In any case, I doubt your claim about redistributability.  I have
proceeded with many SuSE installationrecently, and while I cannot say I
have read the license agreement in it's entirety, I have seen no notice
or warning in that direction.


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Re: multimedia software

Derek Broughton-2
In reply to this post by Harold-5
Harold wrote:

> Probably due to loosing control of the software.  Right now java, as I
> understand it, is meant to narrowly address programming needs without
> allowing attacks such as activeX does.  This is probably a reason for
> its popularity.

That's not Java at all.  Java is a generalized programming language.  There
has never been anything "narrow" about what it is "meant" to do, though the
first few versions didn't quite meet up with the developers' vision.  Sun's
vision was "write once, run anywhere" (that might not be quite the slogan
they used...) and they seriously had hopes of it taking the world by storm
and becoming the most used programming language.  If they'd made it open
source, they might even have achieved that.

Its popularity is probably due to the fact that it's the one language that
most colleges teach these days (though some are beginning to move to
python).
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Re: multimedia software

John-68
In reply to this post by Dennis Kaarsemaker
Dennis Kaarsemaker wrote:

> On zo, 2005-11-20 at 19:42 +0800, John wrote:
>
>
>>Besides, not being free software doesn't prevent the provision of a
>>package to acquire it by download.
>
>
> If suns java license would allow redistribution, Sun java would be in
> multiverse. But the license does not allow this.
>

I quote:
B.License to Distribute Software. Subject to the terms and
conditions of this Agreement, including, but not limited to
the Java Technology Restrictions of these Supplemental
Terms, Sun grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable,
limited license without fees to reproduce and distribute
the Software, provided that (i) you distribute the Software
complete and unmodified (unless otherwise specified in the
applicable README file) and only bundled as part of, and
for the sole purpose of running, your Programs, (ii) the


I think various browsers will benefit from the presence of java: not
having Breezy installed any more, I can't actually check what they're
using to support java applets. Even if they didn't use them, it's not
hard to write a Java program, maybe one to check for the availability of
new releases of Java, or to make a deb out of a tarball or something.


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Re: multimedia software

Matthew East
In reply to this post by John-68
On Sun, 2005-11-20 at 17:20 +0800, John wrote:

> Marius Bock wrote:
> > Ubuntu and for that mattwe any other Linux distribution are not allowed to
> > redistribute Sun Java so what you asking is not an option.
>
> I've not checked the licence recently, so I don't know what the specific
> objections you have. Sun has always agreed to folk distributing jre with
> their Java apps.
>
> SuSE does have jre included (but called java).
>
> Even if Ubuntu can't see its way clear to include Java, then how about a
> package to download it and set it up?
I am a bit of a multimedia noob, but it seems to me that this is what
the java-package[1] program does. I believe you have to download the
tarball yourself.

Is this a big issue? I am pretty sure installing java is relatively easy
for anyone able to follow instructions
(http://help.ubuntu.com/starterguide/C/faqguide-all.html#sect-java )

matt@kalliope:~$ apt-cache show java-package
Package: java-package
Priority: optional
Section: multiverse/misc
Installed-Size: 308
Maintainer: Debian Java Maintainers
<[hidden email]>
Architecture: all
Version: 0.26
Depends: debhelper, fakeroot, coreutils | stat, unzip
Filename: pool/multiverse/j/java-package/java-package_0.26_all.deb
Size: 21258
MD5sum: 3d3efe5ecdba3a4aac8f22b024717866
Description: utility for building Java(TM) 2 related Debian packages
 This package provides the capability to create a debian package from
 a Java(TM) 2 distribution by just running make-jpkg <filename>.
 .
 This program currently works with the following Java(TM) 2 Runtime
 Environments and Development Kits:
 .
  * Sun Microsystems(TM) 1.4 and 1.5 Standard Edition
  * IBM(TM) 1.3 and 1.4 Standard Edition
  * Blackdown Java-Linux 1.3 and 1.4 Standard Edition
Bugs: mailto:[hidden email]
Origin: Ubuntu

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Re: multimedia software

John-68
In reply to this post by Derek Broughton-2
Derek Broughton wrote:

> Harold wrote:
>
>
>>Probably due to loosing control of the software.  Right now java, as I
>>understand it, is meant to narrowly address programming needs without
>>allowing attacks such as activeX does.  This is probably a reason for
>>its popularity.
>
>
> That's not Java at all.  Java is a generalized programming language.  There
> has never been anything "narrow" about what it is "meant" to do, though the
> first few versions didn't quite meet up with the developers' vision.  Sun's
> vision was "write once, run anywhere" (that might not be quite the slogan
> they used...) and they seriously had hopes of it taking the world by storm
> and becoming the most used programming language.  If they'd made it open
> source, they might even have achieved that.
>
> Its popularity is probably due to the fact that it's the one language that
> most colleges teach these days (though some are beginning to move to
> python).

I's much used in small devices - PDAs, phones and such, in web servers
(as an alternative to php). Java is a much better language than C or C++
in that its design is intended to help programmers from making mistakes
leading to buffer overruns, misused pointers, format string problems and
so on.
Its big problem is that it's essentially an interpreted language with
resultant performance hits, especially on zSeries, computers that have
I/O to leave you gasping, but no CPU power to speak of. It can be
compiled to native code, but then it's not portable any more. There are
also JIT compilers, but they have their imperfections too.


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Re: multimedia software

John-68
In reply to this post by Harold-5
Harold wrote:
> Probably due to loosing control of the software.  Right now java, as I
> understand it, is meant to narrowly address programming needs without
> allowing attacks such as activeX does.  This is probably a reason for
> its popularity.

Perhaps you're thinking of Javascript: not Java at all, but for many
purposes an alternative.


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Re: multimedia software

John-68
In reply to this post by Carlos Perelló Marín-3
Carlos Perelló Marín wrote:

> On Sun, 2005-11-20 at 10:00 -0500, Etienne Goyer wrote:
>
>>Derek Broughton wrote:
>>
>>>>SuSE does have jre included (but called java).
>>>
>>>Presumably not the Sun JRE, then.
>>
>>No. It's the Sun's one indeed.
>
>
> I think that's because SuSE reached an agreement with SUN to distribute
> it. The problem with that kind of agreement is that *only* SuSE can
> distribute it, if you create a derivative, you must remove it from your
> version. In fact, I think you are not able to duplicate the CD and give
> it to other people just because the JRE software does not allow you to
> do that...
>
> Cheers.
>
>

Why nor download it (and IBM's) and read the licence?

I think IBM's is not distributable (but the licence does not make any
sense to me in the context of Java), that Sun's is provided that you
meet certain conditions, and those conditions require you to distribute
it with your own Java-using applications.

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