muon bug reports

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muon bug reports

Harald Sitter
elo

muon bugs on bugs.kde.org get default assigned to
[hidden email] but I'm sure he's not done any development in
years so I would rather change it to something else. any preferences?
a mailing list ideally.

HS

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Re: muon bug reports

Nate Graham-2
Is Muon itself still developed at all? From what I can see it has had
only one substantive commit [1] in the last two years. The rest are
translations, appdata changes, etc. The bug tracker has tons of bugs [2]
so it's not as if it's a mature and finished app without the need for
much development.

Nate

[1]
https://invent.kde.org/system/muon/-/commit/8453986756bfad695e318c9c147ec55c0b666d06
[2]
https://bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?component=muon&list_id=1777549&product=muon&resolution=---



On 8/7/20 4:25 AM, Harald Sitter wrote:
> elo
>
> muon bugs on bugs.kde.org get default assigned to
> [hidden email] but I'm sure he's not done any development in
> years so I would rather change it to something else. any preferences?
> a mailing list ideally.
>
> HS
>

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Re: muon bug reports

Harald Sitter
I honestly don't know, Carlo did do some changes, also in the
underlying libqapt. I haven't used muon in at least half a decade, but
from what I recall it definitely was complete. Of course at the same
time it's a massively feature rich app so there's bound to be problems
and that's what those bugs are by the looks of it. Specifically half
look like weird problems elsewhere that simply happen to manifest in
muon, a quarter are legit issues in weird scenarios and the other
quarter are wishlist items. The more concerning bit is libqapt WRT
maintenance. libapt-pkg does change ABI every once in a while and if
informed porting to the new API doesn't happen then that's bound to
bit rot through uninformed hodgepodge porting eventually.

That being said, if nobody wants to maintain muon I'm fine with sunsetting it.
Equally I'm fine with sunsetting libqapt but as I recall some of the
l10n support tech depends on it (via libkubuntu).

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 3:29 PM Nate Graham <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Is Muon itself still developed at all? From what I can see it has had
> only one substantive commit [1] in the last two years. The rest are
> translations, appdata changes, etc. The bug tracker has tons of bugs [2]
> so it's not as if it's a mature and finished app without the need for
> much development.
>
> Nate
>
> [1]
> https://invent.kde.org/system/muon/-/commit/8453986756bfad695e318c9c147ec55c0b666d06
> [2]
> https://bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?component=muon&list_id=1777549&product=muon&resolution=---
>
>
>
> On 8/7/20 4:25 AM, Harald Sitter wrote:
> > elo
> >
> > muon bugs on bugs.kde.org get default assigned to
> > [hidden email] but I'm sure he's not done any development in
> > years so I would rather change it to something else. any preferences?
> > a mailing list ideally.
> >
> > HS
> >

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Re: muon bug reports

Mitch Golden
Is there something broken about muon that would require it to be sunset?
I really like using it. While I don't have time to really become the
maintainer, if there's something not too difficult that urgently needs
to be fixed in order to keep it in, I would at least take a look.

   - Mitch Golden

On 8/7/20 11:00 AM, Harald Sitter wrote:

> I honestly don't know, Carlo did do some changes, also in the
> underlying libqapt. I haven't used muon in at least half a decade, but
> from what I recall it definitely was complete. Of course at the same
> time it's a massively feature rich app so there's bound to be problems
> and that's what those bugs are by the looks of it. Specifically half
> look like weird problems elsewhere that simply happen to manifest in
> muon, a quarter are legit issues in weird scenarios and the other
> quarter are wishlist items. The more concerning bit is libqapt WRT
> maintenance. libapt-pkg does change ABI every once in a while and if
> informed porting to the new API doesn't happen then that's bound to
> bit rot through uninformed hodgepodge porting eventually.
>
> That being said, if nobody wants to maintain muon I'm fine with sunsetting it.
> Equally I'm fine with sunsetting libqapt but as I recall some of the
> l10n support tech depends on it (via libkubuntu).
>
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 3:29 PM Nate Graham <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Is Muon itself still developed at all? From what I can see it has had
>> only one substantive commit [1] in the last two years. The rest are
>> translations, appdata changes, etc. The bug tracker has tons of bugs [2]
>> so it's not as if it's a mature and finished app without the need for
>> much development.
>>
>> Nate
>>
>> [1]
>> https://invent.kde.org/system/muon/-/commit/8453986756bfad695e318c9c147ec55c0b666d06
>> [2]
>> https://bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?component=muon&list_id=1777549&product=muon&resolution=---
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/7/20 4:25 AM, Harald Sitter wrote:
>>> elo
>>>
>>> muon bugs on bugs.kde.org get default assigned to
>>> [hidden email] but I'm sure he's not done any development in
>>> years so I would rather change it to something else. any preferences?
>>> a mailing list ideally.
>>>
>>> HS
>>>
>

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Re: muon bug reports

Harald Sitter
On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 3:14 AM Mitch Golden <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Is there something broken about muon that would require it to be sunset?

We don't know because nobody triages bugs, let alone works on them,
hence my original question where bug mails should go ;)

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Re: muon bug reports

Nate Graham-2
On 8/8/20 8:48 AM, Harald Sitter wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 3:14 AM Mitch Golden <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Is there something broken about muon that would require it to be sunset?
>
> We don't know because nobody triages bugs, let alone works on them,
> hence my original question where bug mails should go ;)

I suppose we should set up a new mailing list and encourage people who
care to subscribe to it.

Nate

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Re: muon bug reports

Carlo Vanini-2
Il giorno sab 8 ago 2020 alle ore 16:51 Nate Graham <[hidden email]> ha scritto:

>
> On 8/8/20 8:48 AM, Harald Sitter wrote:
> > On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 3:14 AM Mitch Golden <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Is there something broken about muon that would require it to be sunset?
> >
> > We don't know because nobody triages bugs, let alone works on them,
> > hence my original question where bug mails should go ;)
>
> I suppose we should set up a new mailing list and encourage people who
> care to subscribe to it.
>

Muon is certainly not actively developed anymore. I would say the same
of libqapt,
software-properties(-qt) and apt-xapian-index (Muon depends on them). Being
distro-specific may not be helping. Maybe having a list dedicated to them as you
suggest would gather interested people and coordinate some effort.
Releasing with Applications would also help a lot.

On the other hand, I would say the target user group for Muon could be served by
aptitude. Muon is a sort of clone of aptitude with limited features (think e.g.
dependency navigation, multiple tabs). For desktop users we have Discover.
When Muon was orphaned [1] it was already proposed to move it to unmaintained.

Muon is still usable at present, safe for some quirks (e.g. search
crashing in some
circumstances).
The more recent bug reports are related to software-properties, which
is a Ubuntu thing.
The Qt frontend still expects to be run as root (kdesu or pkexec).
Afaik it will break on
Wayland. There is a branch for porting to the existing dbus service,
but then new features
got added to master and the branch lagged behind.
Maintaining Muon would require some activity on apt-xapian-index
(completing port to
python3) and software-properties. Moreover, if Julian hadn't updated
libqapt to apt 1.9
himself, I for one certainly wouldn't have been able to.

To sum it up, it would make me sad to see it go away, but I'm not
against sunsetting.

Carlo

[1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2015-November/010082.html

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Re: muon bug reports

Mitch Golden
If it's helpful I can at least go through the bug reports and see which
ones I can replicate. I would sign up to the proposed list (though I
don't know how much I would be able to do bug fixes.)

   - Mitch Golden

On 8/16/20 6:49 PM, Carlo Vanini wrote:

> Il giorno sab 8 ago 2020 alle ore 16:51 Nate Graham <[hidden email]> ha scritto:
>>
>> On 8/8/20 8:48 AM, Harald Sitter wrote:
>>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 3:14 AM Mitch Golden <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Is there something broken about muon that would require it to be sunset?
>>>
>>> We don't know because nobody triages bugs, let alone works on them,
>>> hence my original question where bug mails should go ;)
>>
>> I suppose we should set up a new mailing list and encourage people who
>> care to subscribe to it.
>>
>
> Muon is certainly not actively developed anymore. I would say the same
> of libqapt,
> software-properties(-qt) and apt-xapian-index (Muon depends on them). Being
> distro-specific may not be helping. Maybe having a list dedicated to them as you
> suggest would gather interested people and coordinate some effort.
> Releasing with Applications would also help a lot.
>
> On the other hand, I would say the target user group for Muon could be served by
> aptitude. Muon is a sort of clone of aptitude with limited features (think e.g.
> dependency navigation, multiple tabs). For desktop users we have Discover.
> When Muon was orphaned [1] it was already proposed to move it to unmaintained.
>
> Muon is still usable at present, safe for some quirks (e.g. search
> crashing in some
> circumstances).
> The more recent bug reports are related to software-properties, which
> is a Ubuntu thing.
> The Qt frontend still expects to be run as root (kdesu or pkexec).
> Afaik it will break on
> Wayland. There is a branch for porting to the existing dbus service,
> but then new features
> got added to master and the branch lagged behind.
> Maintaining Muon would require some activity on apt-xapian-index
> (completing port to
> python3) and software-properties. Moreover, if Julian hadn't updated
> libqapt to apt 1.9
> himself, I for one certainly wouldn't have been able to.
>
> To sum it up, it would make me sad to see it go away, but I'm not
> against sunsetting.
>
> Carlo
>
> [1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2015-November/010082.html
>

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Re: muon bug reports

Harald Sitter
In reply to this post by Nate Graham-2
On 08.08.20 16:50, Nate Graham wrote:

> On 8/8/20 8:48 AM, Harald Sitter wrote:
>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 3:14 AM Mitch Golden <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is there something broken about muon that would require it to be sunset?
>>
>> We don't know because nobody triages bugs, let alone works on them,
>> hence my original question where bug mails should go ;)
>
> I suppose we should set up a new mailing list and encourage people who
> care to subscribe to it.

Anybody going to do this? Otherwise I'll go ahead with marking it
unmaintained.

HS

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Re: muon bug reports

Mitch Golden
On 9/25/20 9:52 AM, Harald Sitter wrote:

> On 08.08.20 16:50, Nate Graham wrote:
>> On 8/8/20 8:48 AM, Harald Sitter wrote:
>>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 3:14 AM Mitch Golden <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Is there something broken about muon that would require it to be sunset?
>>>
>>> We don't know because nobody triages bugs, let alone works on them,
>>> hence my original question where bug mails should go ;)
>>
>> I suppose we should set up a new mailing list and encourage people who
>> care to subscribe to it.
>
> Anybody going to do this? Otherwise I'll go ahead with marking it
> unmaintained.

I will join the list if someone sets it up and take a crack at triaging
the bugs.

   - Mitch Golden

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Re: muon bug reports

Mitch Golden
Has a list been created? I would like to join.

   - Mitch Golden

On 9/25/20 9:53 AM, Mitch Golden wrote:

> On 9/25/20 9:52 AM, Harald Sitter wrote:
>> On 08.08.20 16:50, Nate Graham wrote:
>>> On 8/8/20 8:48 AM, Harald Sitter wrote:
>>>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 3:14 AM Mitch Golden <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there something broken about muon that would require it to be
>>>>> sunset?
>>>>
>>>> We don't know because nobody triages bugs, let alone works on them,
>>>> hence my original question where bug mails should go ;)
>>>
>>> I suppose we should set up a new mailing list and encourage people who
>>> care to subscribe to it.
>>
>> Anybody going to do this? Otherwise I'll go ahead with marking it
>> unmaintained.
>
> I will join the list if someone sets it up and take a crack at triaging
> the bugs.
>
>    - Mitch Golden

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Re: muon bug reports

Harald Sitter
Not that I know of.

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 1:43 PM Mitch Golden <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Has a list been created? I would like to join.
>
>    - Mitch Golden
>
> On 9/25/20 9:53 AM, Mitch Golden wrote:
> > On 9/25/20 9:52 AM, Harald Sitter wrote:
> >> On 08.08.20 16:50, Nate Graham wrote:
> >>> On 8/8/20 8:48 AM, Harald Sitter wrote:
> >>>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 3:14 AM Mitch Golden <[hidden email]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Is there something broken about muon that would require it to be
> >>>>> sunset?
> >>>>
> >>>> We don't know because nobody triages bugs, let alone works on them,
> >>>> hence my original question where bug mails should go ;)
> >>>
> >>> I suppose we should set up a new mailing list and encourage people who
> >>> care to subscribe to it.
> >>
> >> Anybody going to do this? Otherwise I'll go ahead with marking it
> >> unmaintained.
> >
> > I will join the list if someone sets it up and take a crack at triaging
> > the bugs.
> >
> >    - Mitch Golden

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Re: muon bug reports

Mitch Golden
Who would be the one to create it? I gather that muon will not be killed
at the moment, but I'd like to know if anything is happening.

   - Mitch Golden

On 9/30/20 7:48 AM, Harald Sitter wrote:
> Not that I know of.
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 1:43 PM Mitch Golden <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Has a list been created? I would like to join.
>>
>>     - Mitch Golden

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Re: muon bug reports

Harald Sitter
On 30.09.20 19:52, Mitch Golden wrote:
> Who would be the one to create it? I gather that muon will not be killed
> at the moment, but I'd like to know if anything is happening.

Anyone can! For example *you* can ;)

The obvious options are

- a list on launchpad: which I believe simply needs a group created and
a list setup in the group settings
- a kde mailing list: probably more topically relevant, needs a sysadmin
ticket filed at https://phabricator.kde.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/2/
asking to create [hidden email] or some such name

HS

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Re: muon bug reports

Mitch Golden
On 10/1/20 6:11 AM, Harald Sitter wrote:
> Anyone can! For example *you* can ;)
>
> The obvious options are
>
> - a list on launchpad: which I believe simply needs a group created and
> a list setup in the group settings
> - a kde mailing list: probably more topically relevant, needs a sysadmin
> ticket filed at https://phabricator.kde.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/2/
> asking to create [hidden email] or some such name

Harald -

I have made the request to kde. I have taken the liberty of subscribing
you to the list (to help get me started) but please feel free to
unsubscribe if you aren't willing/able to do it.

   - Mitch

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