non ubuntu related question! Buying a second hand phone, how can i avoid being scammed?

[javadayaz]

Hi all,

First of all i would like to apologise for the non Ubuntuness of this thread.

I would just like to pick your brains on something.

I am thinking of buying a preowned phone from websites like gumtree. My concern is after i have bought the phone, the seller rings up his insurance reports it stolen and my phone gets blacklisted i.e blocked imei.

I was under the assumption that a network provider registers a phone to their network but this doesnt seem to be the case. I have already asked a network provider (orange) if they would register me as having new ownership of a phone bought but they refused saying this cannot be done.

What are your thoughts on this?

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Javad

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[Simon Greenwood]

On 9 February 2012 10:28, javadayaz <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all,

First of all i would like to apologise for the non Ubuntuness of this thread.

I would just like to pick your brains on something.

I am thinking of buying a preowned phone from websites like gumtree. My concern is after i have bought the phone, the seller rings up his insurance reports it stolen and my phone gets blacklisted i.e blocked imei.

I was under the assumption that a network provider registers a phone to their network but this doesnt seem to be the case. I have already asked a network provider (orange) if they would register me as having new ownership of a phone bought but they refused saying this cannot be done.

What are your thoughts on this?

I would have thought that a locking signal would have to be passed through the SIM for a provider to disable it, so as long as the device is unlocked there shouldn't be a problem.

s/

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[Kris Douglas-3]

On 9 February 2012 10:28, javadayaz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all,
> First of all i would like to apologise for the non Ubuntuness of this
> thread.
>
> I would just like to pick your brains on something.
>
> I am thinking of buying a preowned phone from websites like gumtree. My
> concern is after i have bought the phone, the seller rings up his insurance
> reports it stolen and my phone gets blacklisted i.e blocked imei.
>
> I was under the assumption that a network provider registers a phone to
> their network but this doesnt seem to be the case. I have already asked a
> network provider (orange) if they would register me as having new ownership
> of a phone bought but they refused saying this cannot be done.
>
> What are your thoughts on this?

I work for a mobile phone company, there are ways to find out if the
IMEI (unique identifier) has been reported, but there is no safe way
to take a mobile from someone that may subsequently be blacklisted.

It's hit and miss.

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[javadayaz]

which is exactly my concern...it happened to me once and i was lucky enough to get my money back..

Is there a way of registering the imei no a person?

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Kris Douglas <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 9 February 2012 10:28, javadayaz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all,
> First of all i would like to apologise for the non Ubuntuness of this
> thread.
>
> I would just like to pick your brains on something.
>
> I am thinking of buying a preowned phone from websites like gumtree. My
> concern is after i have bought the phone, the seller rings up his insurance
> reports it stolen and my phone gets blacklisted i.e blocked imei.
>
> I was under the assumption that a network provider registers a phone to
> their network but this doesnt seem to be the case. I have already asked a
> network provider (orange) if they would register me as having new ownership
> of a phone bought but they refused saying this cannot be done.
>
> What are your thoughts on this?

I work for a mobile phone company, there are ways to find out if the
IMEI (unique identifier) has been reported, but there is no safe way
to take a mobile from someone that may subsequently be blacklisted.

It's hit and miss.

--
Regards, Kris Douglas.
 www.krisd.eu

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--

Regards

Javad

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[Kris Douglas-3]

On 9 February 2012 10:51, Simon Greenwood <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would have thought that a locking signal would have to be passed through
> the SIM for a provider to disable it, so as long as the device is unlocked
> there shouldn't be a problem.


Sadly this is not the case, when the phone goes to register with any
network it's IMEI is checked with a nationwide blacklist. If a handset
is barred by any one network it is completely disabled on all other
networks.


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[Kris Douglas-3]

On 9 February 2012 10:58, javadayaz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> which is exactly my concern...it happened to me once and i was lucky enough
> to get my money back..
>
> Is there a way of registering the imei no a person?

Sadly I am not aware of a way to legally change the owner of a
handset. Unless a contract is transferred (which is unlikely to happen
anyway).

There is no easy/ safe way to purchase from an online auction site.

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[javadayaz]

i was thinking more along the lines of its a payasyougo phone...and then registering my self as the new owner?

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Kris Douglas <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 9 February 2012 10:58, javadayaz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> which is exactly my concern...it happened to me once and i was lucky enough
> to get my money back..
>
> Is there a way of registering the imei no a person?

Sadly I am not aware of a way to legally change the owner of a
handset. Unless a contract is transferred (which is unlikely to happen
anyway).

There is no easy/ safe way to purchase from an online auction site.

--
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 www.krisd.eu

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Regards

Javad

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[Kris Douglas-3]

On 9 February 2012 11:15, javadayaz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> i was thinking more along the lines of its a payasyougo phone...and then
> registering my self as the new owner?

It's even harder with PAYG because there is nothing to prove who the owner is.

If the mobile network are willing to enforce that you are the new
owner then that's fine, but I doubt they will. The reason for this is
they have no idea if whether or not you have stolen the handset
yourself.

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[javadayaz]

ok thanks for your informed answers. 

I think its probably better i dont buy a phone second hand then!

Ive just spoken to Tmobile who have also said that if i bought the phone second hand there was no need to register it with my current sim. 

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Kris Douglas <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 9 February 2012 11:15, javadayaz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> i was thinking more along the lines of its a payasyougo phone...and then
> registering my self as the new owner?

It's even harder with PAYG because there is nothing to prove who the owner is.

If the mobile network are willing to enforce that you are the new
owner then that's fine, but I doubt they will. The reason for this is
they have no idea if whether or not you have stolen the handset
yourself.

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 www.krisd.eu

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--

Regards

Javad

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[Stuart Ward]

Javad

The seller should provide you with a report from checkmend
www.checkmend.com to show that the phone is not currently listed
anywhere. Don't accept a phone that has anything other than all green
indicators.

Once you have the phone, put a SIM in it an make some calls, so that
your operator has a record of the phone being used on your account. If
the phone is subsequently blocked that contact your operator, they
will be able to see which network blocked it and get them to list the
block. If they have records of the phone being used on a legitimate
account (Your SIM) then they can get the other operator to lift the
block.

Only operators have access to the blacklisting process, once an
operator blacklists a IMEI on their network they then post this number
to a central database and all other operators pick this up for
blacklisting. So if your phone is stolen and you report it to your
operator, you can be assured that it is listed at least with all UK
operators. Only the operator that listed a IMEI is capable of lifting
the listing. If your IMEI has been listed by another operator (yes
mistakes happen) then the listing indicates the operator that listed
it so your operator can get the problem resolved. Provided they can
show usage on their network with a valid account this should not be a
problem.

Lastly it is worth listing your IMEI number on IMMOBILISE
www.imobilise.com, This one of the places that the police will check
if they recover a phone, to see if it has been stolen.

The blacklisting processes are managed between the operators in a
forum known as MICAF www.micaf.co.uk There are some useful tips and
contacts on their site. You cant contact micaf directly, you need to
go through your operator.

Stuart


-- Stuart Ward M [phone]

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[javadayaz]

again, isnt it easy enough for the seller to have it blocked at a later stage..even if they provide me with a clean checkmend report?

Also the network could easily enough just say that im using a stolen phone!!!?

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Stuart Ward <[hidden email]> wrote:

Javad

The seller should provide you with a report from checkmend
www.checkmend.com to show that the phone is not currently listed
anywhere. Don't accept a phone that has anything other than all green
indicators.

Once you have the phone, put a SIM in it an make some calls, so that
your operator has a record of the phone being used on your account. If
the phone is subsequently blocked that contact your operator, they
will be able to see which network blocked it and get them to list the
block. If they have records of the phone being used on a legitimate
account (Your SIM) then they can get the other operator to lift the
block.

Only operators have access to the blacklisting process, once an
operator blacklists a IMEI on their network they then post this number
to a central database and all other operators pick this up for
blacklisting. So if your phone is stolen and you report it to your
operator, you can be assured that it is listed at least with all UK
operators. Only the operator that listed a IMEI is capable of lifting
the listing. If your IMEI has been listed by another operator (yes
mistakes happen) then the listing indicates the operator that listed
it so your operator can get the problem resolved. Provided they can
show usage on their network with a valid account this should not be a
problem.

Lastly it is worth listing your IMEI number on IMMOBILISE
www.imobilise.com, This one of the places that the police will check
if they recover a phone, to see if it has been stolen.

The blacklisting processes are managed between the operators in a
forum known as MICAF www.micaf.co.uk There are some useful tips and
contacts on their site. You cant contact micaf directly, you need to
go through your operator.

Stuart


-- Stuart Ward M <a href="tel:%2B44%207782325143" value="[phone]">[phone]

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Regards

Javad

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[Stuart Ward]

If you can prove that you purchased it in good faith, then they will
have to unblock it. If you bought it off a mate for cash, you don't
have any receipt, or evidence that you checked that it was not
reported stolen at the time of the sale, then a subsequent reporting
of it as stolen will be difficult to refute that you didn't receive
stolen goods.

I have dealt with a few instances like this and provided the new owner
can show a receipt for purchase, then the bar is lifted.

Same rules apply when buying a second hand car.


-- Stuart Ward M [phone]



On 9 February 2012 15:47, javadayaz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> again, isnt it easy enough for the seller to have it blocked at a later
> stage..even if they provide me with a clean checkmend report?
>
> Also the network could easily enough just say that im using a stolen
> phone!!!?
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 3:43 PM, Stuart Ward <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Javad
>>
>> The seller should provide you with a report from checkmend
>> www.checkmend.com to show that the phone is not currently listed
>> anywhere. Don't accept a phone that has anything other than all green
>> indicators.
>>
>> Once you have the phone, put a SIM in it an make some calls, so that
>> your operator has a record of the phone being used on your account. If
>> the phone is subsequently blocked that contact your operator, they
>> will be able to see which network blocked it and get them to list the
>> block. If they have records of the phone being used on a legitimate
>> account (Your SIM) then they can get the other operator to lift the
>> block.
>>
>> Only operators have access to the blacklisting process, once an
>> operator blacklists a IMEI on their network they then post this number
>> to a central database and all other operators pick this up for
>> blacklisting. So if your phone is stolen and you report it to your
>> operator, you can be assured that it is listed at least with all UK
>> operators. Only the operator that listed a IMEI is capable of lifting
>> the listing. If your IMEI has been listed by another operator (yes
>> mistakes happen) then the listing indicates the operator that listed
>> it so your operator can get the problem resolved. Provided they can
>> show usage on their network with a valid account this should not be a
>> problem.
>>
>> Lastly it is worth listing your IMEI number on IMMOBILISE
>> www.imobilise.com, This one of the places that the police will check
>> if they recover a phone, to see if it has been stolen.
>>
>> The blacklisting processes are managed between the operators in a
>> forum known as MICAF www.micaf.co.uk There are some useful tips and
>> contacts on their site. You cant contact micaf directly, you need to
>> go through your operator.
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>>
>> -- Stuart Ward M [phone]
>>
>> --
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> Javad
>
>
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